PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Vixen]

falcons dair will outspace the utilt/shine, which is the entire point of throwing out a second aerial.

It becomes a series of RPS vs a good falcon with Falco experience.

aerial to utilt/shine > shield grab > aerial to aerial > dair oos > aerial to utilt/shine

My issue with what PP is suggesting is that he's so much better than all the falcons that it doesn't really matter what he does.

 

[Purpletuce]

I think what pp is suggesting is covering all the options, rather than going for a read, shine would beat shield grab, and if you wave shine away you would be safe from stomp because falcon shouldn't get enough momentum from oos unless he tries to stomp as he comes down, which you probably can react to.

 

[Vixen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgoKCVmdHQE any critiue?

nobody's given me advice in months =[

 

[Purpletuce]

Really solid movement.

Maybe wait onstage before you grab the ledge, long enough so that you can see if he is going to go high or low to recover. As soon as you got him offstage you grabbed the ledge asap, which is great for low recoveries, but when he went high, it took you too long to get to him and couldn't always maintain the edgeguard.

Be more aware if Falcon can double jump to grab the ledge, or if he will have to use his UpB. Sometimes when he could grab the ledge before you could reach him you would start throwing out attacks, even though he was safe, maybe you were hoping he would try to air dodge on or use his UpB?

You might want to try being more defensive when he has good positioning or invincibility, at one point you put yourself in a hole on PS when he was invincible, which I think is a pretty bad option. Also, when you were put in some awkward situations after that you would throw out aerials, but weren't in a position to follow them up, such as when he randomly jumped on the tree at 5:10, and you caught him with a D-air at low %s, and landed on the tree which was below and in front of him. You then did a DJ N-air and nearly got stomped, but then got U-aired. It was all really awkward. . .

Be more careful with your DJ, you threw it out quite a bit, and it often caught him off guard, but if he gets you you're in a horrible position. At one point you dropped off the ledge and shine stalled to lose your invincibility then went up with a U-air and got kneed. . .

Toward the end I think you were confident that you had it and started getting greedy, and lost an edgeguard because you started charging a F-smash and he simply UpBed over you to safety.

 

[Vixen]

yeah i do stupid **** sometimes. need to play people who punish me for stupid **** more often.

S2J MAKE OKSAS AMAZING SO I CAN GET BETTER C:

 

[Purpletuce]

Yeah I feel ya, too often does my stupid options go unpunished. . . All you can really do if you don't play people who exploit it is try to keep telling yourself you shouldn't.

 

[Scidadle]

So I kinda just started playing falco seriously and I'm having a hard time whenever I shine on a platform. I always start to fall through and get the double jump making it hard as **** to waveshine.

Any tips?

EDIT: Also what are some good follow ups after up-throw on a decently heavy char

 

[Pigs]

So I kinda just started playing falco seriously and I'm having a hard time whenever I shine on a platform. I always start to fall through and get the double jump making it hard as **** to waveshine.

Don't pull the analog stick down all the way, I like to do it about halfway.

 

[ElloEddy]

So I kinda just started playing falco seriously and I'm having a hard time whenever I shine on a platform. I always start to fall through and get the double jump making it hard as **** to waveshine.

Any tips?

EDIT: Also what are some good follow ups after up-throw on a decently heavy char

heavy as in fast faller....falcon etc..up throw dair is the BNB

up throw shine ( and a flashy wtf kill up throw shine to dair at the edge lol its amazing )

up throw bair to send them off stage or kill

and up throw fair on floaties gives alot of dmg ....
but of course you have to react to the DI before doing any of these

 

[ElloEddy]

So I kinda just started playing falco seriously and I'm having a hard time whenever I shine on a platform. I always start to fall through and get the double jump making it hard as **** to waveshine.

Any tips?

EDIT: Also what are some good follow ups after up-throw on a decently heavy char

heavy as in fast faller....falcon etc..up throw dair is the BNB

up throw shine ( and a flashy wtf kill up throw shine to dair at the edge lol its amazing )

up throw bair to send them off stage or kill

up throw up tilt ..then follow up at low dmg on heavys

and up throw fair on floaties gives alot of dmg ....
but of course you have to react to the DI before doing any of these

 

[Vixen]

when you do an aerial on the platform to shine, if you're already holding down, and then shine, you won't drop through

 

[crush]

its like uptilting with the controller upside down

 

[pokemongeof]

Alright guys i need to ask a question. See i play Luigi, a decent one (for being 13 years old, just to bring up), and when facing every character in the higher tiers, i especially hate facing Marth! That sword bugs me to death!

So i have decided to play Falco as a counterpick when i face Marth. Is this a good idea?

 

[oukd]

1 - stop bringing up your age <_<
2 - playing falco instead of luigi is a good idea for...every matchup. so sure lol

 

[pokemongeof]

1 - stop bringing up your age <_<
2 - playing falco instead of luigi is a good idea for...every matchup. so sure lol

Thanks for the advice! Yeah and i'm going to add my age somewhere else!

 

[Dr Peepee]

picking up sheik is better for fighting marth, but falco's pretty good in this metagame so that could work too.

 

[Voltz]

True.

 

[Scidadle]

when you do an aerial on the platform to shine, if you're already holding down, and then shine, you won't drop through

Damn thanks. This helped a lot

Also. Age is somewhat irrelevant. There's a player in FL named Wizzrobe (prolly gonna name search this) who started when he was like 13 and he was pretty damn good at his first tournament.

 

[Bones0]

So I kinda just started playing falco seriously and I'm having a hard time whenever I shine on a platform. I always start to fall through and get the double jump making it hard as **** to waveshine.

Any tips?

EDIT: Also what are some good follow ups after up-throw on a decently heavy char

Don't pull the analog stick down all the way, I like to do it about halfway.

You have to barely go down at all. I think it's actually harder than shield dropping. lol You're better off just making sure you're holding down all the way. I somehow get it really often, so I think I am actually pressing down and B on the same frame. So maybe don't worry about how hard you press and instead focus on pressing B really early. Idk though.

Alright guys i need to ask a question. See i play Luigi, a decent one (for being 13 years old, just to bring up), and when facing every character in the higher tiers, i especially hate facing Marth! That sword bugs me to death!

So i have decided to play Falco as a counterpick when i face Marth. Is this a good idea?

No.
1. I don't think Luigi vs. Marth is even harder than some of his other matchups. Marth isn't going to be that much more difficult than facing Fox, Falco, Sheik, or Falcon...
2. Falco loses to Marth until you get to a pretty high level, so you probably won't see any benefit from the switch for a long time (if ever).
3. If you win against someone with a pocket Marth, you won't know whether or not to stay Luigi or switch to Falco after you win a game. You'll have to be good at Luigi vs. Marth anyway.

 

[Scidadle]

I agree. Picking falco to exclusively use as a marth counterpick is kinda dumb. Falco is a pretty difficult character to play so if you're not gonna be practicing him much then you're not gonna get good at him.

You're better off with sheik in pretty much every way.

 

[Anand]

Hey guys, I was wondering how good laser > shine > grab is, as an approach. I have to resort to this because I'm not very fluent with L-canceling yet, but I'm only 7 years old.

 

[Bones0]

Damn, you're 7? I'm a lot less impressed from our matches. I figured you were only 5-6 years old. I think laser-shine-grab is pointless because I'd rather aerial-shine-grab. If I'm worried about them moving back then I will just laser and grab if they hold shield. It's so rare that you can actually make people stand still in shield while you laser towards them (unless they are at the ledge or just bad at the game in general).

 

[Purpletuce]

Lol at thinking falco is hard to pick up and play. Everything he does is easy unless you're trying to be fancy with combo video stuff. Once you play for a few hours in a mu with falco you'll stop getting bs gimped and falco is super easy. In terms of pick up and play ease vs payout he might be one of the easiest in the game.

Also, shine without falling through a platform is easier than a shield drop, just don't mash down.

 

[Scidadle]

Yeah. Maybe if you're playing against people that suck he's easy to just pick up and play. But against any competent player you can't just lol pick falco and lol laser and win.

Not that simple.

 

[Purpletuce]

I'm not talking about doing that, I'm talking about being a state level player and beating pr level players. At Noob level like you're suggesting, puff Marth or peach are the free characters. As in things like Falco can get away with incompetent spacing because of shine, and other dumb falco things. Every tech falco needs can be picked up in a day from a decent player (lhdl, waveshine, shl, and pillar). I was messing around with him today, he is ridiculously easy to play.

 

[Scidadle]

Then you should main him and get top 10 at nationals.

 

[Bones0]

I'm not talking about doing that, I'm talking about being a state level player and beating pr level players. At Noob level like you're suggesting, puff Marth or peach are the free characters. As in things like Falco can get away with incompetent spacing because of shine, and other dumb falco things. Every tech falco needs can be picked up in a day from a decent player (lhdl, waveshine, shl, and pillar). I was messing around with him today, he is ridiculously easy to play.

MM me Falco vs. my Marth then. My Marth can't do **** against the decent players in my region, so I should be a pushover.

 

[Anand]

MM me Falco vs. my Marth then. My Marth can't do **** against the decent players in my region, so I should be a pushover.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I took a game in friendlies, and I'm 4 years old, so that's pretty impressive.

 

[Mogwai]

cut the "I'm X years old" trolling out.

 

[Anand]

cut the "I'm X years old" trolling out.

Got it, sorry. (I tried to make sure my posts stood on their own if you excised/ignored that part, but I understand how it could be distracting.)

 

[Purpletuce]

I'd be down whenever I see you. I'd probably have to actually try with falco first, which is a thought that makes me feel dirty. Martha would be decently hard to learn in a day because of how many silly gimps he has on falco, but falco is you know... Falco.

Also, they were running out of ages to be, unless they started going negative..."ill be born in four years" and that's just silly.

 

[Bones0]

!

Got it, sorry. (I tried to make sure my posts stood on their own if you excised/ignored that part, but I understand how it could be distracting.)

Don't be a *****.

Tell the truth.

You're still in a *****.

Abort that, *****!

 

[ElloEddy]

falco is bad lol......there's a reason only pp places so HIGH ..use sheik and fox and luigi isnt that bad against marth if you learn the mu ..but falco is easy to kill so your gonna hate falco marth in the beginning

 

[Life]

I think we need a grid to describe what "easy to play" means.

Threat Level | Pre-tournament | Local _____________| State/Regional___ | National
------------ | -------------- | ------------------ | ----------------- | --------------
Easy to play | Most chars_____| Marth, Puff, Sheik | Sheik, Fox, Falco | see tier list
Meh to play_ | Low tiers______| Spacies, Falcon ___| etc.


Chart is semi-arbitrary and probably totally wrong, just showing what I mean. Courier font to look nice, which is way more important than some arbitrary difficulty levels anyway.

 

[Purpletuce]

Did that guy just say falco is bad? You're in the melee thread, I'm assuming you didn't know. Pp is the only good falco? What? Have you ever seen any matches not from pp?

 

[whitemountain123]

Hey guys,

Like so many other falcos, I'm struggling super hard with the marth matchup. I know a ton of people have posted asking about it (and I've read most of those posts), but I was hoping to get some help anyways.

When I think about it, I think one of the biggest reasons I struggle with it compared to other matchups is that I don't have an understanding of the neutral game. For most other matchups, I can think of ways falco can control neutral, but against marth (esp ones that can ps), I'm pretty lost.

Even when I watch PP against marths (PPU and M2K) it kinda looks like he's just the better player, and not so much that he leverages the matchup (vs lets say foxes or peaches or puff, etc.). Maybe I'm just not seeing it...

Anyways, any advice is appreciated!

 

[pokemongeof]

Thanks guys for the advice!

But i've decided something. Like Abate with Fox, i've decided Falco is my secondary. I'll get better and get back to u guys!

 

[pokemongeof]

Thanks guys for the advice!

But i've decided something. Like Abate with Fox, i've decided Falco is my secondary. I'll get better and get back to u guys!

 

[Purpletuce]

Being a better player is inescapably tied with knowing the MU.

PSing is easy to get around, simply vary your laser timing. (As someone who has implemented PSing as good/better than most.) Practice lasers as low as possible, as well as clipping the top of their shields and everything in between. Quite a few people who know how to SHL seem to just use it and hope nobody goes around it. If you simply do the same laser height at the same time and repeat it, you're essentially telling people how to get around it. Also, change when you SHL, maybe change your spacing before you use it again.

Laser until he does something to get the neutral game down. Once you see how he responds, start to know his responses, and as you get more familiar with the MU you will know what you can do to counter what. For example, if Marth jumps over the lasers (they do that often) Try to laser when he lands (space so you don't get hit). If they try messing you up on that, like with a DJ, simply delay the laser. Also understand that Marth doesn't have many strong options for coming down on you, so expect approaches from the sides.

How is your offstage game?

 

[Purpletuce]

Oops. Can a mod fix my double post? ><