PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Strong Badam]

Well also Falco's Dair is less broken which will make things harder. =P

the dair change is probably one of the weakest nerfs in PAL
that said, peach isn't nerfed at all, so yea

 

[Bones0]

Late dair (as in, the end of the move) is pretty worthless vs. Peach anyways.

 

[Bieber]

You're not being completely fair right now.

Not sure how serious you were, though.

Not serious at all haha, I just thought it was kinda funny since he was out of the country for a tournament like four days ago.

 

[Druggedfox]

Late dair (as in, the end of the move) is pretty worthless vs. Peach anyways.

Not true. Late dair is REALLY good for comboing floaties at mid-high percents.

 

[Mogwai]

Not true. Late dair is REALLY good for comboing floaties at mid-high percents.

agreed .

 

[Bones0]

Like when? (not sarcastic)

 

[Wenbobular]

You do a weak Dair, it's too weak to send them down fast enough to outpace your fastfall and you get to uptilt / shine and do something

 

[Divinokage]

Ya if you shine and dair right away, Falco will not have enough time to follow up which is why you do it late. Thats why Im a little scared.

 

[Bones0]

I'm not talking about dairing as late as possible. I'm talking about dairing as early as possible so that you hit with the last few frames of the dair. When would you use that?

 

[Strong Badam]

when you're bad at edgeguarding and it works anyway because you're falco

 

[Bones0]

when you're bad at edgeguarding and it works anyway because you're falco

Yeah, this is one of the times I use it, but it doesn't work vs. Peach at all because you just hit her parasol and don't even get trade.

 

[Warhawk]

when you're bad at edgeguarding and it works anyway because you're falco

Lol this is why I hate edgeguarding with dair in friendlies

 

[Druggedfox]

I'm not talking about dairing as late as possible. I'm talking about dairing as early as possible so that you hit with the last few frames of the dair. When would you use that?

For comboing. Like, you wavedash out of a shine and then jump and DJ immediate down air. Time it so that the last few frames of your dair catch them at the peak of your dj then fastfall. It'll set up perfectly for almost literally any move you want (usually an uptilt cuz why not). It's extra good on FD in particular, notably usable against marth, peach, and ganon (though i guess he's not notable... >_>).

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ganon is too notable....and yeah it's necessary to combo us that way, or else we will jump out of the combo and **** you for not doing it that way. and you don't want that.

 

[Battlecow]

^Wanna sidebet? I probably can't go to SR anymore, but I have some spare money on my paypal iirc, so it would be fun to spice things up a little.

give me 2:1 odds and I'm in

I would do this too. Could go pretty high...

same deal as him, 2:1 odds and I got you

you got paypal, right?

 

[Beat!]

Hmmm.

I'll consider it.

 

[Deleted member]

[14:16] charles.meighen@gmail.com: "1) mango said he never gets tired while playing and i get worn out. he said i think too much. do i need to build stamina or think less?"
[14:17] charles.meighen@gmail.com: 2) m2k said i lose because i shielded too much and didnt sh ac bair enough. when m2k and i falco dittoed, i did better when i listened. what do you think of this? i think its not the whole truth but there seems to be something to it. he said just attack all the time
[14:17] charles.meighen@gmail.com: 3) how do i practice edgeguarding?" i flubbed TONS of those and dont seem to be getting any better at it. am i just not adapting?

http://www.twitch.tv/eschamptv/b/323376350

starts @ 1:27:28

1. smash is not supposed to be something that tires you out, even if you're playing at your peak. you should probably think slightly less because you over-think things sometimes, but even then your question is a loaded one. you should be playing to have FUN more than you are. the more you enjoy what you are doing, the more natural it will feel and the easier it is to play.

it's a learned skill, and it make take some time for you to relax a bit more when you play. but you can do it.

you also get impatient and it shows. go to 1:32:07. you can actually see yourself get impatient, and you play noticeably different before and after that time.

2. shield is sketchy at best in falco dittos because falco has this blinky thing. sh ac bair is the same. you basically don't want to do anything in falco dittos that's weak to laser > shine or laser > grab. so yeah you shield way too much.

for sh ac bair, try fading away into shine/light shield. for the bair, it basically says "attack me here" like we talked about a long time ago with peach dash attack, but falco has issues attacking like that unless he lasers first. it's also weird to grab because of the autocancel and the fade. basically you can be doing it when the bair will hit don't throw it out just to keep falco from coming at you, and you throw it out when you think you can be shot. since bair isn't really a control option, you can pretty much always be shot out of it. i think it can be good but very situational.

as for attacking all the time, sure ok but you still have to do it correctly. like i said the morning of the event, do lasers into shines / grabs / shinegrabs. most of the times you attacked mango's shield with an aerial, you lost in that instance.

3. you just need to maintain control of your edge guards better. smarter players have wised up to your "shoot them until they're below the edge" trick and just go for it. i think falco is actually a bit soft when people just go for it. try to be at the ready to stuff it with nair/bair. why those moves? they hit away from you , so you just have to place the active hitbox between your opponent and the stage, and they can't be teched easily.

it makes sense at this point though that when falco isn't on the edge to just go for the edge ASAP. falco only has things that you can tech and edge hogs to stop you from grabbing it, both of which you can play around.

for edge guards, PLEASE start going for guaranteed things. me and jason have both told you this separately but you need to start going for off stage bairs when the opponent is starting side B or up B. just something like jump at them off stage > shine turn around > bair is basically a free kill at any %. you consistently let your opponents come back to the edge when you don't have to and it costs you a lot of damage.

 

[Dr Peepee]

what is goin on in my thread guys

SUP

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP

YOU TRYNA TALK ABOUT SOME SPECS IN HERE

SWEET BRO

AWESOME

LOVE THAT STUFF MANAAAAAAAAANNNN




****

I figured out what you meant, but like, why would you want to
catch a turnip unless it's a stitchface? And if it's a stichface, you gotta have mad swag to try to catch it since ****ing up is basically gg.




On a completely different note, does anyone else try to bait your opponent into getting up on a platform by crouching underneath the platform? Falco's crouch looks similar enough to the start of his jump animation that I feel like I can frequently bait people into showing their get up and then reacting to punish.

Example: http://youtu.be/sfm3r_K-Who?t=7m

I think turnips and lasers together are funny.

That idea....is really good. Any fast motion in a position like that can induce the opponent into action. I really like the idea and will try to remember to mess with it =)

Shout outs to the idiots who complained about informed KK commentary. :\

Peepee, I hate your up tilts. I really, really do. Especially since now, I have to deal with Falcos realizing it *****.

Uptilt <3

ever since 08 that's been my luv

I don't think I've seen PP play that well since WGF/P5.

ALMOST as good imo. Soon I will have returned!

I actually thought Mango was not playing the best I remember him by. He had more technical inconsistency than usual because perhaps he has not been playing as much? I thought it was noticeable, for example getting stuck in shine for a while that happened repeatedly. He won though, so defending him seems odd but that's what I thought and experienced this tournament. I'm not really trying to discredit anything, I was just inputting an opinion on the other side of the spectrum because no one seemed to talk anything about what Mango was doing.

He did have some technical/controller issues this is true. He compensated with his play though.

It was hardly **** **** up in teams. It was REALLY close.

cage pls

haha aight cat's outta the bag. i didnt wanna stir nothing but WE OUT!

impulse put some things in perspective for me.
Mango was playing pretty bad compared to his standards. He wasn't playing as well as he did at genesis 2 (where he lost), and yet he still won.

PP was playing probably the best i've ever seen him play, but lost anyway

makes me think armada is on some serious next level ish and probably would have stomped impulse

there. i said it lol

sick post br0

http://www.twitch.tv/eschamptv/b/323376350

starts @ 1:27:28

1. smash is not supposed to be something that tires you out, even if you're playing at your peak. you should probably think slightly less because you over-think things sometimes, but even then your question is a loaded one. you should be playing to have FUN more than you are. the more you enjoy what you are doing, the more natural it will feel and the easier it is to play.

it's a learned skill, and it make take some time for you to relax a bit more when you play. but you can do it.

you also get impatient and it shows. go to 1:32:07. you can actually see yourself get impatient, and you play noticeably different before and after that time.

2. shield is sketchy at best in falco dittos because falco has this blinky thing. sh ac bair is the same. you basically don't want to do anything in falco dittos that's weak to laser > shine or laser > grab. so yeah you shield way too much.

for sh ac bair, try fading away into shine/light shield. for the bair, it basically says "attack me here" like we talked about a long time ago with peach dash attack, but falco has issues attacking like that unless he lasers first. it's also weird to grab because of the autocancel and the fade. basically you can be doing it when the bair will hit don't throw it out just to keep falco from coming at you, and you throw it out when you think you can be shot. since bair isn't really a control option, you can pretty much always be shot out of it. i think it can be good but very situational.

as for attacking all the time, sure ok but you still have to do it correctly. like i said the morning of the event, do lasers into shines / grabs / shinegrabs. most of the times you attacked mango's shield with an aerial, you lost in that instance.

3. you just need to maintain control of your edge guards better. smarter players have wised up to your "shoot them until they're below the edge" trick and just go for it. i think falco is actually a bit soft when people just go for it. try to be at the ready to stuff it with nair/bair. why those moves? they hit away from you , so you just have to place the active hitbox between your opponent and the stage, and they can't be teched easily.

it makes sense at this point though that when falco isn't on the edge to just go for the edge ASAP. falco only has things that you can tech and edge hogs to stop you from grabbing it, both of which you can play around.

for edge guards, PLEASE start going for guaranteed things. me and jason have both told you this separately but you need to start going for off stage bairs when the opponent is starting side B or up B. just something like jump at them off stage > shine turn around > bair is basically a free kill at any %. you consistently let your opponents come back to the edge when you don't have to and it costs you a lot of damage.

okay something else informative FINALLY

ill edit as i read


edit 1:


1. I got tired after playing for several hours, so I figured it was pretty natural? Hm well either way I was trying to learn a lot when I played so I guess it wasn't good enough. Back around WGF/P5 I never ever got tired so clearly I could do better about being more loose when I play.

Since you have no advice about how to do it it's just one of those things I have to master.

Guess I need to hit that meditation harder.


2. I don't really understand the Bair thing you explained. I should be lasering his landing basically and only Bair myself when I could be hit? I can get on aim tonight if you think that'd be better(I'm 6 hours ahead of EST) to explain this to me.

I also attack often because I worry he will aerial OOS me. M2K grabbed me a ton in my Falco dittos with him and never aerialed so I guess I'm just not lasering to approach correctly? Perhaps my laser spacing is incorrect and I need to start lasering to approach at a closer distance more.....but that might mean Mango would FH more when he sees me approach and I'm not so good at dealing with his FHs....argh I have much to work on lol.


3. Stuff what with Nair/Bair?? Going out there orr....??

Reading it again, looks like I just put the hitboxes between them and the stage so I DJ rise with Nair or Bair.....no Dair?

I couldn't react to side B or up B. How do I practice edgeguarding???

Whenever I tried to go out there vs Mango in friendlies I always missed I think. I dunno I guess I just need to practice it a ton vs him. When I played M2K he knew when I was vlunerable to that trick but I didn't know how he knew how to differentiate between the situations at all....

 

[ZetTroxX]

I just finished my Falco Combo Video - don´t wanna be an attention ***** right now - but it took me some time to complete it, so I think it´s worth to be posted here.


Have fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao51J_9j-Bw&list=UUFpnPwv5eHQS2_k0QPoOvCw&index=1&feature=plcp

 

[Divinokage]

cage pls

When you can actually win vs my team without getting carried by Mango, let me know.

Though on a serious note, I thought you could switch up your recoveries a little more. M2k mentioned you like to recover high and I wanted to confirm myself and this is true. It's definitely a habit. Also learning how to shorten will definitely help you as well.

 

[Bones0]

For comboing. Like, you wavedash out of a shine and then jump and DJ immediate down air. Time it so that the last few frames of your dair catch them at the peak of your dj then fastfall. It'll set up perfectly for almost literally any move you want (usually an uptilt cuz why not). It's extra good on FD in particular, notably usable against marth, peach, and ganon (though i guess he's not notable... >_>).

I don't immediate dair for those combos, but they still work. I DJ and dair right before the peak of my jump (before I can hit them).

 

[unknown522]

^^ @ Kage: It's true

Mango actually talked about it as well during the week

 

[Dr Peepee]

I do it in teams because it gives my partner longest to attack the opponent and allow me to recover safest usually.

I can shorten just fine already wtf.

I don't like the role I played on Mango's team....it was uncomfortable for me <.<

 

[Divinokage]

I do it in teams because it gives my partner longest to attack the opponent and allow me to recover safest usually.

I can shorten just fine already wtf.

I don't like the role I played on Mango's team....it was uncomfortable for me <.<

It wasnt just in teams, I say it in general from what I've seen. I don't think I've seen a single shorten in singles at all or at least vs Mango. And yes you do recover high even in 1v1.

 

[Dr Peepee]

im scared of recovering low =(

I was better about this in finals though iirc

 

[Divinokage]

Don't be afraid!! Cmon man I want to see the true Cpt.America in action! It's like very small details you have to fix and you'll be able to body everyone for sure! I can see it!

 

[unknown522]

Yeah, recovering low can be scary, but it has its uses

 

[Warhawk]

I don't immediate dair for those combos, but they still work. I DJ and dair right before the peak of my jump (before I can hit them).

Must just be late enough in the dair animation so that it still works in the same manner to link into other moves with the way you do it.

 

[Bones0]

Is there actually a difference between the beginning and end of dair, or is this difference a result of the shine effect?

 

[Strong Badam]

....what? it's weaker at the end. angle is the same.

 

[Divinokage]

We were talking about the PAL dair and yes there is a difference, its a bit harder to combo floaties because if the Dair hits too late then it wont send downwards.

 

[Strong Badam]

then the later hit sends at the same angle as say falcon's uair or falco's nair.

 

[unknown522]

We were talking about the PAL dair and yes there is a difference, its a bit harder to combo floaties because if the Dair hits too late then it wont send downwards.

whenever I see that happen in PAL, I can't help but laugh.

Amsah vs armada on FD in an older set, it happened once

 

[Bones0]

....what? it's weaker at the end. angle is the same.

Wow, never knew that. What's the difference in shield stun?

 

[Wenbobular]

What ... Bones how did you not know that Dair got weaker ...

 

[Bones0]

Because I pretty much always use the beginning of it. lol

 

[Wenbobular]

But like ... if you thought about it for more than ... a second ...

 

[Warhawk]

If the dair wasn't weaker at the end animation Falco couldn't really combo Ganon and Peach and some others quite as well.

 

[Zoler]

Wow, never knew that. What's the difference in shield stun?

And this is a guy that argues in tier list discussions

 

[Dr Peepee]

this hate is really unnecessary <.<


ya'll dudes should talk about some cool stuff, like how to minimize the impact of laser startup on falco's neutral game or how to abuse laser/FH control to the fullest

stuff this thread deals with yeah!

(will post longer when im home/make sure I have lots of time to type)