PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Bones0]

ask him that yourself!

IMO mango is trying hard when he goes marth vs m2k's marth. just not the best matchup for him

It was a rhetorical question. If you actually read my post it was clear why I think Mango as well as M2K doesn't try hard... lack of motivation.

 

[choknater]

i agree with you there

 

[ShroudedOne]

The things that bothers me about Mango is how it seems as though he expects us to care about whether he wins or not. Support is nice. I get it. But we as a community don't have to care when he wins. We are allowed to care about whichever player we want in whichever way. He has nothing to prove to us, only to himself.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

eh i don't think he expects anyone to care, but rather he knows people are interested in good players being at tournaments. he tells people whether or not hes attending just like alot of pros on smashboards.

has he done more that im missing?

 

[crush]

its all milktea's fault

 

[Sinji]

Humm...... Rom 4

 

[mers]

Humm...... Rom 4

Do you just try to post in all the main character discussion threads in one go?

 

[crush]

mers?????????

 

[Sinji]

I never posted in all of the character mains in one go lol. i never did that before. its just an interesting discussion.

 

[crush]

Sinji never really posts anything useful.

Sorry sinji

 

[Sinji]

Of course I do. lol i just didn't this time. Sometimes you have to loosen up a little.

 

[crush]

Falco players how do you feel about the luigi matchup?

Sinji please stop posting off-topic

 

[FoxLisk]

Then why hasn't Mango been going try hard? He practically lost to Armada because he couldn't even GO into tryhard mode.

in assuming he lost to Armada because he couldn't go tryhard, you're still ****riding him.
Mango lost to Armada because Armada can beat Mango now. And, at RoM 4, Mango is going to lose to Dr. PP because Dr. PP can beat Mango now and no one's going to accept it along similar lines of reasoning.

 

[Sinji]

I agree with FoxLisk. Its called inconsistency. This happens to a lot of top players. Mango decided to play casual after Pound 4 and began to slip. then decided to come back because everyone thought he was washed up. and why didn't Mango go try hard?? Of course he did go try hard. He went try hard against Hbox. Then against Taj (and we all know what happened in LF). so if Mango received all of that adrenaline and support from the crowd in those two sets, why wouldn't he go try hard against Armada? It's his home state and the same venue that he beat Armada two years ago.

Mango's fox at Genesis 2 was amazing. That alone should tell you that he was trying hard.

 

[Pi]

Mango tried of course, he would have won if it was easy

i think a factor in why he didn't win, though, is because he was already satisfied w/ how he did

2nd place, stomping all the other top competitors (aside from armada) pretty much solidified him as still a top competitor in this game, which is what he set out to do

if you get to a point where you're happy w/ where you're at, you know how difficult it is to really put forth the 100% you need to win

but regardless of all these mental things that may factor into whether you win or lose a match
it's still a factor of the type of player you are

if things like crowd interference, self doubt, contentment, and whatever else you can john about really do affect the way you play, well they are still factors in how good you are as a player

if you 'can't win' because you don't feel motivated to win, then that's just as much of a factor of the level of player you are as if you can't win because you can't perform techskill consistently.

these are controllable aspects that we as players have to face and either accept or overcome.

if mango was satisfied with 2nd, and lost 'because of being satisfied' or whatever he said happened (crowd johns w/e)
well it's still something you need to factor in when ranking him against the other top competitors

just because someone has the potential to beat another person, doesn't mean that they are better than the other person
that's why we must look at tournament placings unbiased, otherwise our rankings become arbitrary.

mango's a smart, talented, competitive melee player, i'm sure he recognizes all of this already, get off his jock.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Mango tried of course, he would have won if it was easy

i think a factor in why he didn't win, though, is because he was already satisfied w/ how he did

2nd place, stomping all the other top competitors (aside from armada) pretty much solidified him as still a top competitor in this game, which is what he set out to do

if you get to a point where you're happy w/ where you're at, you know how difficult it is to really put forth the 100% you need to win

but regardless of all these mental things that may factor into whether you win or lose a match
it's still a factor of the type of player you are

if things like crowd interference, self doubt, contentment, and whatever else you can john about really do affect the way you play, well they are still factors in how good you are as a player

if you 'can't win' because you don't feel motivated to win, then that's just as much of a factor of the level of player you are as if you can't win because you can't perform techskill consistently.

these are controllable aspects that we as players have to face and either accept or overcome.

if mango was satisfied with 2nd, and lost 'because of being satisfied' or whatever he said happened (crowd johns w/e)
well it's still something you need to factor in when ranking him against the other top competitors

just because someone has the potential to beat another person, doesn't mean that they are better than the other person
that's why we must look at tournament placings unbiased, otherwise our rankings become arbitrary.

mango's a smart, talented, competitive melee player, i'm sure he recognizes all of this already, get off his jock.

Just to highlight a specific point that I agree with, and add my two cents. When we're thinking of who is the better "player," skill obviously factors into this. But what we must also consider is how the player is affected by his surroundings, and whether or not he can control his reactions, and focus on the task at hand. If Dr. Peepee and Armada can resist the hype of the crowd, and Mango can't, and their skill levels are all on the same plane, I think that it's safe to say that both Armada and Peepee are better players than Mango. Even if Mango has the most skill and most potential to win out of the three, if he cannot perform the way he needs to, then there is no point in calling him the best player. Because he isn't.

So yeah, Pi pretty much ends this topic.

 

[Takeover1806]

pp is about to get shroomed this tournament.

 

[Bones0]

in assuming he lost to Armada because he couldn't go tryhard, you're still ****riding him.
Mango lost to Armada because Armada can beat Mango now. And, at RoM 4, Mango is going to lose to Dr. PP because Dr. PP can beat Mango now and no one's going to accept it along similar lines of reasoning.

I'm not **** riding. Mango lost because he doesn't have mental discipline. I think that's obvious to everyone, but some people are willing to let it slide by as a conscious decision from Mango as opposed to a problem with his gameplay that he needs to address to improve. I'm not johning for him at all, and I'm not even saying he would have won if he played differently. All I was getting at was that Mango couldn't (not "wouldn't") go try hard mode due to a lack of motivation and self-control.

 

[Pi]

^That is a john. You see that right?

 

[Anand]

^That is a john. You see that right?

Well, I think that Bones' intent wasn't to make excuses for Mango, but rather to point out a specific flaw he has. It's no more johning than saying "he is inconsistent at L-canceling" or "he has terrible reads" would be johning.

 

[commonyoshi]

I hope PP got his flu shot this time.

Go get them!

 

[Pi]

Well, I think that Bones' intent wasn't to make excuses for Mango, but rather to point out a specific flaw he has. It's no more johning than saying "he is inconsistent at L-canceling" or "he has terrible reads" would be johning.

except for him calling it a conscious decision
and saying then that he 'couldn't' have won because of it

if you can't L cancel, then you can't L cancel
it's not something that, on the spot, you choose to be good at or not
and if your reads suck, same thing
but he's saying that at that moment, even though mango did at one point and probably still does posses the ability to perform at the level needed to overcome great competitors, he chose to make sub-optimal decisions, which may have factored into why he lost

mango lost to armada because at that moment, he couldn't beat him

i'm not saying don't discuss how he could have beat him, or speculate about it
but don't discuss them as excuses, discuss them as flaws

'mango lost because he made bad decisions' is very different than
'mango lost because he chose to make bad decisions'

because that implies that he could simply choose to make the right decisions, and win, whenever he so pleases. which is not the case.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

why are you wasting your time talking about some smelly costa rican guy who dresses like a metro now


can we please talk about how **** falco's wavedash is

 

[Pi]

we could, but the discussion would be pretty short
it sucks (k it doesn't suck but there's nothing outstanding about it, and plenty are better)

how would we rate falco's edgeguarding options? both in preventing the opponent from grabbing the ledge
as well as preventing him from getting back onto the stage, from the ledge once he's grabbed it?

 

[genkaku]

falco is kind of a sucky character in general.
falco mains just tend to be really good.

 

[username12345678]

And, at RoM 4, Mango is going to lose to Dr. PP because Dr. PP can beat Mango now and no one's going to accept it along similar lines of reasoning.

 

[crush]

Let's stop talking about mango now.

Falcos u smash is good.

 

[noobird]

my life is a lie

 

[ShroudedOne]

Daaaaamn...

 

[SSBMLahti]

Gratz on making M2K rage forfeit.

 

[Strife]

First time I've seen a Falco ditto in GFs since PP and Lamchops played at some tourney. This one was infinitely at a higher level though.

 

[Battlecow]

Dominant performance from mango. I guess we'll just have to see if PP can hit the lab hard enough to change things up come January.

I still believe, Doctor!

Although honestly, as long as one of you puts AR Adam back in his place, I'm cool. Getting tired of Leffen's ****.

Bottom line: Next time.

 

[noobird]

^mango can drop eu as long as pp gives mango a beating

 

[Doser]

PP showed that he was capable of resetting the match, there's no doubt in my mind that he's still top 3 in the world.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Dominant performance from mango. I guess we'll just have to see if PP can hit the lab hard enough to change things up come January.

I still believe, Doctor!

Although honestly, as long as one of you puts AR Adam back in his place, I'm cool. Getting tired of Leffen's ****.

Bottom line: Next time.

besides being from the same country what does armada's placement have to do with leffen? its not like leffen is the one winning a major

 

[Strife]

PP showed that he was capable of resetting the match, there's no doubt in my mind that he's still top 3 in the world.

Top 3 sure. But there may be a big difference between him and the top 2 atm. That wasn't even close.

 

[mers]

I am so anxious to hear PP's thoughts on his matches with M2K. M2K looked like he had enough heart to pull it through for a little while there.

 

[JPOBS]

i honestly thought m2k was going to win vs pp. he started out really strong in both sets
but pp pulled it out.

imo, pp is a rank below armada and mango right now. hopeflly he'll be super motivated to run it back at apex.

 

[Juushichi]

I'm actually more interested to see him reflect on his match vs Mango really.

He looked overwhelmed, but already I'm not surprised if he's "in the lab" in his mind to prepare for his next outing vs Mango.

 

[Strife]

^ It was simply too dominant. I don't think he's gonna have anything that'll be able to beat Mango by Apex. PP was very close to getting 6-0d.