PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[JPOBS]

i dont really undersrtand what that all means concerning dair->uptilt :/
could someone transfer into layman's terms plz?

 

[Mahone]

I hear the term isai dropping alot. But what is it and how do you do it?

(just trolling Foxlisk because the puff boards are completely dead).

 

[Mogwai]

no one answer this ^

I'll make a thread and sticky it tonight.

 

[FoxLisk]

omg mogwai thank you im so tired of typing that out!

 

[SPAWN]

I know that some characters are in hitstun for different periods of time but generally doesn't dair>utilt with Falco combo? I was trying to figure out how much of a margin of error you can have when doing the dair>utilt since when you're facing in front of them you have to turn around and utilt and I don't know if that causes it to not combo or not.

If you know of any hitstun threads that I should take a look at (tried searching couldn't find much useful threads) feel free to let me know.

Thanks!

With Falco? It will vary a lot depending on their damage.

Hitstun that is 30 frames or less does not cause tumble, and since d-air has 9 lcanceled lag you can get up to a +21 advantage before it begins popping them into the air (hitstun still scales the same way after tumble but they'll be able to tech before it ends until it starts sending them a decent height). Falco's jump+SHFF time is 22 so if it isn't already known, when the 1st d-air would give around the +14 to +17 area you can do something silly like: No-Tumble D-air(hit low) -> SHFFL N-T D-air(hit at apex) -> Shine/U-tilt -> (stuff).


This is the advantage when you hit the d-air just before landing (their actual stun time would be 9 higher than what's listed). It uses the dmg before the hit and when the d-air is fresh (12%). The amount it's doing less than that would be how much more dmg they need to get the same result.

Dmg . Bowser/Mario/Falco/Jiggs
-------------------------------
00% . +05/+05/+06/+07
05% . +07/+07/+08/+09
10% . +09/+09/+10/+11
15% . +10/+11/+12/+14
20% . +12/+13/+15/+16
25% . +14/+15/+17/+19
30% . +16/+17/+19/+21
35% . +18/+19/+21/---
40% . +19/+21/---/---
45% . +21/---/---/---


Here's the weight list. You can get a good idea of what the other characters would be using the examples above.

117 - Bowser
114 - Donkey Kong
110 - Samus
109 - Ganondorf
108 - Yoshi
104 - Captain Falcon / Link
100 - Dr Mario / Luigi / Mario
94 - Ness
90 - Peach / Sheik / Zelda
88 - Ice Climbers
87 - Marth
85 - Mewtwo / Roy / Young Link
80 - Falco / Pikachu
75 - Fox
70 - Kirby
60 - Jigglypuff / Mr Game & Watch
55 - Pichu

For next page. If noone explains it in a few days, I will.

 

[unknown522]

How does I kill with flaco? Halp please

b-air them.

 

[Mogwai]

I hear the term isai dropping alot. But what is it and how do you do it?

(just trolling Foxlisk because the puff boards are completely dead).

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273161

stop trolling.

 

[Incronaut]

is there a congratulations PPMD thread for beating hungrybox? cause that **** was AMAZING and I just wanted to let him know how amazing his falco is (no meat riding intended)

 

[MacD]

don't listen to incronaut, he's a noob, i beat him with my... ummm zelda?

<33333

 

[Dr Peepee]

Lol some people posted here and were like "good stuff" but yeah it was pretty cool.

Thanks for that bro. =)

Edit: Darn you MacD don't leave aim.

 

[MacD]

sorry that i am good at being in 2 places at once

so suck it!!!!!!

<3

 

[tw1n]

sorry that i am good at being in 2 places at once

so suck it!!!!!!

<3

Lol much love for MacD here.

 

[Incronaut]

don't listen to incronaut, he's a noob, i beat him with my... ummm zelda?

<33333

LOL you have yet to beat me with your zelda foo!! (not sure if youll come back here)

thank goodness for that though

 

[MacD]

i'm here forever and always

and i guess that's a challenge, better hope we never play ever again lolololol

and besdies, i taught you the stuff in teh beginning, i'll just beat you harder than before!!!!! i got this

 

[Incronaut]

i'm here forever and always

and i guess that's a challenge, better hope we never play ever again lolololol

and besdies, i taught you the stuff in teh beginning, i'll just beat you harder than before!!!!! i got this

just dont get down-smashed, DI properly, and tech walls -lessons learned from mccain

 

[#HBC | Mac]

how many frames (shine) lag do you get when you hit someone with shine? Is it different when yu shine their sheild?

 

[Mogwai]

geez, I guess my thread's really fallen off to the point where people ask frame data **** here

hit lag on shields is the same as hitlag on people, for Falco's shine it happens to be 5 frames

 

[Rubyiris]

just dont get down-smashed, DI properly, and tech walls -lessons learned from mccain

hold down, di into the ****, don't tech walls.

lessons all peach mains want spacies to do.

 

[Kira-]

What percent can fox/falco/falcon tech a dair from Falco? Like you shine them, they're in the air, then you dair them again, what percent before the hit can they tech it instead of just landing in a weird hitstun animation or whatever

 

[MacD]

enjoy falco players

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVX1cRm5XFo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-xeDHibfZ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOch9cltnvI

i know you guys would enjoy these if you haven't seen them yet

 

[JPOBS]

zhu is a beast.

wtf was chu doing on the wc?

 

[FoxLisk]

What percent can fox/falco/falcon tech a dair from Falco? Like you shine them, they're in the air, then you dair them again, what percent before the hit can they tech it instead of just landing in a weird hitstun animation or whatever

fox and falco are somewhere around 38% before the dair, depending on stale moves

falcon im less sure on, I think it's in the mid 40s though.

 

[unknown522]

I hear that zhu got sexed by MacD this weekend...

 

[#HBC | Mac]

**** peach yo

 

[KikoMePlease]

Do you have any tips for Falco Dittos and timing the shine oos? Thanks in advance.

 

[Little England]

I hear that zhu got sexed by MacD this weekend...

Yeah macd played incredibly against zhu. It was his fox though not his falco. Still can't wait for the vids.

 

[stingers]

pp isnt good in falco dittos

 

[JPOBS]

Do you have any tips for Falco Dittos and timing the shine oos? Thanks in advance.

I dont really know what to say about falco dittos.

You need to have a better laser game and dont drop combos. its a tough matchup lol.

shien oos: dont do it too fast. the most common mistake is htting the shine but missing the cancel by jumping. You have some hitlag when the shine lands so u have to slow down just a taaad.

unless your having trouble getting the shine out, in which case you just have to learn the timing from when you're free of sheild stun and just practice.

 

[Dr Peepee]

What percent can fox/falco/falcon tech a dair from Falco? Like you shine them, they're in the air, then you dair them again, what percent before the hit can they tech it instead of just landing in a weird hitstun animation or whatever

I think Fox and Falco's are about 38% and Falcon's is about 48%. Those aren't exact percents but they're close.

Lol Stongers, I worked on my Falco ditto game soooo much this weekend. I feel a lot better about the matchup now.

First of all, aggro is the best way to play the matchup if at all possible(you know, when you're not locked down). Always fight hard for laser control, and try to get under or over your opponent with your own lasers(through varied heights on SHLs or DJ FF double lasers or with platforms).

If you lose laser control, then you still have good OOS options, so don't panic. You can obviously jump OOS to avoid lasers and try to find a way back in, or Bair if you're facing away from your opponent(pretty good more often than not).

If you have laser control, then it's best to make quick shine work on your opponent's shield. Try to get them to shine OOS with a delayed aerial or aerial to shine grab or double shine to stuff different options also work pretty well.

Just some stuff. I need to write up something on the ditto now I suppose.

 

[stingers]

i dig the charizard in your sig.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hey thanks bro.

 

[JPOBS]

ya arggo is a pretty good way to play the ditto i find,

 

[AnDaLe]

If you have laser control, then it's best to make quick shine work on your opponent's shield. Try to get them to shine OOS with a delayed aerial or aerial to shine grab or double shine to stuff different options also work pretty well.

Just some stuff. I need to write up something on the ditto now I suppose.

Why would you want that to Shine OOS?

 

[Dr Peepee]

You want them to try to shine OOS so you can stuff their option by hitting them first(as they leave their shield) or baiting and punishing it.

 

[AnDaLe]

What are some options if they do Shine OOS? assuming its at Final D

 

[PEEF!]

Peepee

I'm watching you.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Peepee

I'm watching you.

How's that working out for you?

@Andale: I assume you mean if you don't stuff it right away with a shine or something, so you mean punishes for shines OOS you bait I guess.

In that case, I would say Bairs/Nairs/lasers if you got them out quickly enough, but you're most likely gonna have to punish the Falco on landing after he jumps away. Laser under him and try to get back on top of him as he lands to reset pressure or grab him quickly(he'll probably go back into his shield if he lands before you get there) before he can get ready for your approach again. Bair/Utilt are pretty good at messing with a Falco that was forced to go into the air as well if you can position yourself quickly enough.

 

[SPAWN]

PP, I've been having some serious problems with the jigglypuff matchup. I feel like puff just gets inside Falco too easily. I think that's probably the reason why Shiz didn't like to go Falco against Jiggs players lol. Does Falco's utilt outprioritize Jiggs' moveset when spaced correctly? I think bair does since it has so much priority...

Also, how do you decide whether to jump or waveshine when comboing with shine? I've noticed If I waveshine Sheik/Peach/Marth/some other random characters I don't really get much punishment out of it... but when I waveshine Fox/Falco/Falcon I get some heavy punishment so long as I don't drop a combo.

Is it safe to say that it's really good to waveshine Fox/Falcon/Falco and then in most other matchups it's better to jump for comboing? It seems whenever Sheik/Marth/Peach sdi the shine, they usually go out further vertically but not too much horizontally where you can't hit them with another move. Whenever Fox/Falco/Falcon sdi the shine, they just go really far out horizontally, but not so much vertically.

PP, you should click on my sig and go to that tournament! It's going to be really good. :D

 

[KikoMePlease]

If you have laser control, then it's best to make quick shine work on your opponent's shield. Try to get them to shine OOS with a delayed aerial or aerial to shine grab or double shine to stuff different options also work pretty well.

What do you mean try to get them to shine OOS? like bait it out and punish?

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP, I've been having some serious problems with the jigglypuff matchup. I feel like puff just gets inside Falco too easily. I think that's probably the reason why Shiz didn't like to go Falco against Jiggs players lol. Does Falco's utilt outprioritize Jiggs' moveset when spaced correctly? I think bair does since it has so much priority...

Also, how do you decide whether to jump or waveshine when comboing with shine? I've noticed If I waveshine Sheik/Peach/Marth/some other random characters I don't really get much punishment out of it... but when I waveshine Fox/Falco/Falcon I get some heavy punishment so long as I don't drop a combo.

Is it safe to say that it's really good to waveshine Fox/Falcon/Falco and then in most other matchups it's better to jump for comboing? It seems whenever Sheik/Marth/Peach sdi the shine, they usually go out further vertically but not too much horizontally where you can't hit them with another move. Whenever Fox/Falco/Falcon sdi the shine, they just go really far out horizontally, but not so much vertically.

PP, you should click on my sig and go to that tournament! It's going to be really good. :D

Utilt tends to trade with Fair and trade/lose to Bair in my experience. I think it beats Nair more often than trades, but trading definitely happens as well. I guess I recommend CC'ing if you Utilt and expect Jiggz to use a move so you can punish. Jiggz has big aerials lol.

I like to jump when comboing floaties and waveshining FF'ers. Sometimes I'll waveshine for floaties so I don't put myself above them to get ***** when I jump and they're still shielding and I could get an Uair to positional Bair follow up or something if I do connect with the waveshine....I hope that made sense lol.

That next paragraph is a good rule of thumb to live by.

Yeah I heard about it. It's date is really close to Tipped Off 6, which is a much closer southern regional that I reallllly like haha. If I can get NC to make the trip up there with me, then I'd probably go haha.



Edit: Yeah basically Kiko.