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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

SPAWN

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Slippi.gg
spaw#333
Alright, thanks for the advice, it all made sense to me.

I don't think I can ask you any more questions about Jiggs xD. I think I know everything about what to do I just have to take the time to get ***** by Jiggs for a little bit so I can eventually get the experience to really excel in the matchup.

Thanks for everything regarding my post PP. So helpful! :)
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
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Alright, thanks for the advice, it all made sense to me.

I don't think I can ask you any more questions about Jiggs xD. I think I know everything about what to do I just have to take the time to get ***** by Jiggs for a little bit so I can eventually get the experience to really excel in the matchup.

Thanks for everything regarding my post PP. So helpful! :)
I'm glad I could help man! Good luck! =)
 

FoxLisk

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how do you bait a shine OoS in such a way that you're both far enough away to not put yourself at risk but close enough to have the opportunity to punish? late aerial - shine - retreating aerial?
 

Dr Peepee

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Whats the proper time to actually shine OOS? Cause a lot of the times when I try it I get shined instead.
It depends on when the Falco does his aerial, but the best time to do it is after he hits your shield with his aerial(the window for this varies with how delayed the move was obviously).

@Foxlisk: It doesn't happen often but if you space close enough when shield pressuring you could bait it, and I think there's another way to do it that I just don't remember at the moment.
 

SPAWN

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Slippi.gg
spaw#333
PP, did you ever organize your info vs the Puff matchup? I thought of a question to ask while I was playing a level 1 jiggs. xD

What are good options to do when jiggs forward or backward throws you off the edge at low percent? at mid percent? at high percent?

I just like can't recover at all vs Jiggs it feels.

Edit: PP, whenever someone asks you about pressuring shields just like refer them to this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=109595

People gotta understand the concept of your shield is going to be in shieldstun when it gets hit by moves (some longer than others pending on how hard the move hits). This is why it varies with shining oos and why shining oos is hard lol.
 

Dr Peepee

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PP, did you ever organize your info vs the Puff matchup? I thought of a question to ask while I was playing a level 1 jiggs. xD

What are good options to do when jiggs forward or backward throws you off the edge at low percent? at mid percent? at high percent?

I just like can't recover at all vs Jiggs it feels.
I sure did! It's in that stickied Falco matchup thread. =) At the bottom of the OP it has vs PUFF and then a lot of stuff I wrote that I think will help.

I......think I talk about that in the guide, but if not, then shine stall if you see puff go high or hang back, otherwise try to jump asap and forward B/up-B when you feel safe(which is vague but puff's can make things safe/un-safe like going out only to fade back and catch your forward B vs trying to hit you and you go through them/over them).

Sorry that isn't much help.....Puff's dumb offstage lol.
 

SPAWN

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Slippi.gg
spaw#333
All I needed was some insight on my options for Jiggs since I've only seriously been playing Falco since March or so.

I could've just ventured off and searched through the Falco board (not even really since it's stickied xD) but I'm feeling particularly lazy with searching through smashboards lol. Sorry about that.

Thanks for all the help tonight.

Back to studying for my final in 7 hours. T_T
 

unknown522

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I sure did! It's in that stickied Falco matchup thread. =) At the bottom of the OP it has vs PUFF and then a lot of stuff I wrote that I think will help.

I......think I talk about that in the guide, but if not, then shine stall if you see puff go high or hang back, otherwise try to jump asap and forward B/up-B when you feel safe(which is vague but puff's can make things safe/un-safe like going out only to fade back and catch your forward B vs trying to hit you and you go through them/over them).

Sorry that isn't much help.....Puff's dumb offstage lol.
Yeah, shine stalling is probably the best possible thing you can do. Still, recovering after being b-thrown off is completely dependent on the jiggs player. They have too screw up pretty badly for the falco to recover.

Also, if being f-thrown off the stage, just SDI the throw. You'll most likely get the edge anyway. She should d-throw you if facing toward the ledge, since it sends characters on a bad angle if they DI away, or she can rest you if you DI inwards.
 

FoxLisk

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how do you SDI fthrow to stay on stage/get the ledge?

also at really low % you can sometimes jump up and air dodge on stage.
 

TemPesT-

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what the general consensus on falco vs samus, and falco vs peach? is it better to just play fox, or is it not too bad for falco.

i really dislike playing fox vs samus, and falco is kind of my 2ndary/main (he's real close with fox)
 

Melomaniacal

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Just curious:
Why is it that occasionally when I shine my opponent, instead of putting him into tumble/hitstun, he'll just float normally in the air. Like, I'll shine Fox, jump for the dair, but he's not in hitstun and just nairs me or something.
 

Mogwai

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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
it's cause you shined them out of a missed tech. It has something to do with hitting people off the ground with a move that does < 8% or something. Magus made a post about it with Raptor boost on the Falcon boards somewhere, but I'm too lazy to look it up. I'd say just search for raptor boost in Magus posts in Scar's thread and you should stumble upon the explanation.
 

ChivalRuse

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I thought it had something to do with the move being staled in addition to hitting them while they're lying on the ground. Regardless, it might still be related to that sub-8% thing.
 

Dr Peepee

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I think Falco is way better vs. Samus. I also think he's fine vs. Peach, though Fox is definitely better at the matchup.
Hugs posted that Falco/Samus is even and Fox slightly wins. I hate the matchup so I don't really know lol, but I guess I'm just putting this out there.
 

Alukard

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I dunno, maybe Fox vs. HugS is better than Falco vs. HugS, but against most Samuses that I've played, having laser control is effing huge in the matchup.
fox is worse though ...

falco is just sooo dam good at taking control ...

... in the end sheik is the tyrant LOL
 

Fernandez

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I suck vs Peach, I'm not really experienced and this weekend i had to play one of the best peaches around here in tourney, first match I ***** his sheik then he went peach and i lost mainly cuz I just don't know the match up, I kinda paniced when i got downsmashed alot and I started to play dumb.
tips please?
 

FoxLisk

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laser her a lot

run around on platforms to stay away from her until you see an opening

bair goes through basically everything she can do if you space it well

utilt goes through a lot of things too, but i think in general you dont want to challenge her moves with it. like if she's coming at you with an FC fair or something I wouldn't utilt.

dair shine dair utilt kinda stuff for combos. sometimes nair nair nair works if they DI weird

hope you can get in like a dair - tech chase - fsmash or something like that at mid %... otherwise she lives forever.

dont nair her (or even bair) when she's on the ground at low-mid%. she will CC dsmash. low dairs are good.

i dont know, thats all i can really say. those are sort of the basics of the matchup. im not particularly good at it, so i cant give you any very good advice. also you sort of answered your own question, mostly: don't get dsmashed too much; when you do, dont panic, and don't play dumb. it's just a matter of nerves to a pretty large extent.
 

Little England

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TemPesT-

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lasers from the ledge ****, however the only time you did not get punished from the ledge, was also the only time you didn't just shoot lasers formt he ledge. something to think about.

you gotta get better at comboing him in general, but your not too bad.

i have to say it was hard to watch and focus on you, lovages fox is so pretty lol

game 2 you played waaaay better, shoulda won it... idk i didnt notice many mistakes in that match
 

Fernandez

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laser her a lot

run around on platforms to stay away from her until you see an opening

bair goes through basically everything she can do if you space it well

utilt goes through a lot of things too, but i think in general you dont want to challenge her moves with it. like if she's coming at you with an FC fair or something I wouldn't utilt.

dair shine dair utilt kinda stuff for combos. sometimes nair nair nair works if they DI weird

hope you can get in like a dair - tech chase - fsmash or something like that at mid %... otherwise she lives forever.

dont nair her (or even bair) when she's on the ground at low-mid%. she will CC dsmash. low dairs are good.

i dont know, thats all i can really say. those are sort of the basics of the matchup. im not particularly good at it, so i cant give you any very good advice. also you sort of answered your own question, mostly: don't get dsmashed too much; when you do, dont panic, and don't play dumb. it's just a matter of nerves to a pretty large extent.
Ok thanks, Falco can't approach peach as good in PAL cuz his dair has a diffrent knockback at the end, it sucks cuz peach can cc that hit.

Also, when a peach hits my shield with a float cancelled nair/bair/fair, and I know shes going to downsmash, is it possible to jump out before they do it and dair for example, or should I just roll?
 

FoxLisk

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im actually not sure about that last question. i would say you can probably jump out, but I would just roll. It's not very easy for her to chase (she has to predict, because she's pretty slow), so it's safe a lot of the time. i bet you can even shine OoS if she doesn't space well.

and i didnt know you were playing pal. I'm sure that's annoying, but it's not as big an issue as it must be in other matchups. falco can't really approach peach in NTSC, either.
 

#HBC | Mac

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pretty sure you can sh aerial in time. and beat her dsmash.

actually i am taking a complete guess so i'm prolly wrong lol. but amsah did it a few times, lez see if i can find the clip

edit: oh this is what I was talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1OOBEanMXA#t=0m35s

but he jumped out after the jab and it wasnt simply aerial dsmash by peach, so this doesn't really apply.
 

Fernandez

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pretty sure you can sh aerial in time. and beat her dsmash.

actually i am taking a complete guess so i'm prolly wrong lol. but amsah did it a few times, lez see if i can find the clip

edit: oh this is what I was talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1OOBEanMXA#t=0m35s

but he jumped out after the jab and it wasnt simply aerial dsmash by peach, so this doesn't really apply.
That doesn't look safe at all...lol
 

JPOBS

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fyi if you KNOW the peach is going to dsmash you sheild after a fc aerial, you can indeed just FJ out then fall down on her dumb face with a dair and teach her a lesson.

it can be risky if they mix in jabs.

Little Englnd:

lots of positive things in the second match. i like your use of grab a lot, especially that **** 0-death involving platformshine->shinegrab.

in general you do good things a few things i have to say is:

1. you let him recover a lot more than i thought you should have, blaster him to drop him low then ledgehop aerial. a few times you couldnt get in position for a proper edgeguard and he just side-B high into the map, on those cases you need to full hop something and smack him.

2. you need to work on making your ledgehop double lasers more crisp. I know you adjusted to him ****** your high lasers by not doing them anymore, but thats not much of an adjustment. LHDL are too good to forgo entirely. Instead, just work on making them better and lower.
Also, in general your from-ledge game needs work. You pretty much only went for LHDL. now this may seem to contradict the above statement, but it really doesnt. Never forget your other options from the ledge include:
1. wavelanding directly from the ledge
2. wavelanding onto a upper platform (yoshis, FoD, BF)
3. grabbing the ledge, then side-b instantly onto the map.
4. LH aerial. didnt do this much either but it someties very useful

So yea, when you use LHDL, make em tighter, and otherwise, keep your options varied.

3. at those quirky percents where the dair-shine combo ends and he's floating just above but you dont have time to dair again, you often opted for upair. Not bad, but its really easy to DI and can be REALLY hard to follow up. Instead, keep your combos going with uptilt or jump shine->platform waveland->etc. both are far better than upair.

otherwise, good stuff, game 2 was very impressive.
 

KirbyKaze

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yea, again, iirc, the staleness is relevant because of the sub-8% thing. Both shine and raptor boost start at 8% or above, but stale below it, so multiple things come into play :p.
The magic number is 7.

... in the end sheik is the tyrant LOL
Cosigning this.

Also, when a peach hits my shield with a float cancelled nair/bair/fair, and I know shes going to downsmash, is it possible to jump out before they do it and dair for example, or should I just roll?
Depends on their float height.

Assuming we're fresher than Subway, Peach Fair and Nair put her at +4 advantage if she floats them really low and lands immediately after doing it. So if she is too high on the shield, yes, you can jump. If they're lowish, then probably not unless they weak hit (which is distinguishable by the distinct lack of shield shrinking upon hit and lack of general shield stun) or they fail the fast fall (it will look choppy and bad).

fyi if you KNOW the peach is going to dsmash you sheild after a fc aerial, you can indeed just FJ out then fall down on her dumb face with a dair and teach her a lesson.

it can be risky if they mix in jabs.
This is wrong.

There isn't enough time to get your horrible 5 frame jump finished if she goes for a D-smash unless she floated really high (plausible) or failed the low FC aerial (also plausible, but not to be depended on).

Also, if they mix in jabs it makes absolutely positively zero difference and actually benefits you because Jab has something like ten frames of lag (or more) and leaves a hole in the pressure so large you could drive a truck through it. If you try to jump out and you hold down because you intend to, say, Dair, you're ASDIing down. If you then respond to the being hit by jab (which, between hitlag and the ten frames of lag thing, isn't too demanding) you get a free CC Shine or CC <insert move>.
 

JPOBS

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This is wrong.

There isn't enough time to get your horrible 5 frame jump finished if she goes for a D-smash unless she floated really high (plausible) or failed the low FC aerial (also plausible, but not to be depended on).

Also, if they mix in jabs it makes absolutely positively zero difference and actually benefits you because Jab has something like ten frames of lag (or more) and leaves a hole in the pressure so large you could drive a truck through it. If you try to jump out and you hold down because you intend to, say, Dair, you're ASDIing down. If you then respond to the being hit by jab (which, between hitlag and the ten frames of lag thing, isn't too demanding) you get a free CC Shine or CC <insert move>.
?

i was doing it constantly vs you the last time we played -_-.
like you'd fc aerial into my sheild and i just kept jumping out before your dsmash and then dairing etc....
 

KirbyKaze

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Besides, honey... I 3-stocked you 3 times in our super duper serious two dollar MM. :laugh:

Though I don't remember if the third time was part of the money match or if we were just being silly at that point. Or sillier, rather. :lick:

I remember you 3-stocking me with Falco after that and then I got mad and 3-stocked you back. And then you were like "U mad?" and I was like :mad:
 

JPOBS

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i dont think i got 3stocked twice but i have terrible memory on specific things like that and maybe you got lucky. >_>

lmfao u were SO mad at that 3 stock on FoD. lookin like shiz vs alan out there

sucks that im back home now (bahamas) and we wont get to play till september :'(
 

tw1n

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Besides, honey... I 3-stocked you 3 times in our super duper serious two dollar MM. :laugh:

Though I don't remember if the third time was part of the money match or if we were just being silly at that point. Or sillier, rather. :lick:

I remember you 3-stocking me with Falco after that and then I got mad and 3-stocked you back. And then you were like "U mad?" and I was like :mad:
Lol much love to KK =]

I was gonna ask vs Peach questions but this whole page was almost exclusively that haha
 
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