PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[choknater]

he is the best character :D

when i play as falco, i find marth the most difficult

 

[JPOBS]

Falco's hardest matchup is the ditto.

 

[Mogwai]

Falco's hardest matchup is the ditto.

agreed

except for me. for me it's peach, but that's cause I don't play this game and suck and thus eat dsmashes like it's my job.

 

[Sinji]

Falco dittos are hard.

I guess I know why Shiz hates fighting lame chops.

 

[JPOBS]

Peach used to be hard for me, until i picked up fox.

 

[FoxLisk]

it rarely shocks me after i see who posts that falco has 6-8 losing matchups.

also peach is definitely not one of them. ive been opposed to that (generally popular) opinion for like five years and im sick of hearing it. falco beats peach.

 

[Divinokage]

I've heard perceiving your opponent as stronger than you allows you to stay mentally sharp while you're opponent stays lax.

Just saying.

Depends... a lot on the person. You might just choke because you are for the exact reason fighting an opponent stronger than you which will make your skills suck more. Zomg I'm fighting Kage, what do I do!?!?!?

 

[JPOBS]

falco definitely beats peach

but at anything below high level play, peach just has it way way easier, which leads to people thinking peach wins.

I play fox vs peach cuz its just more convenient, but falco still wins, i just don't care to put myself through the headache

 

[choknater]

falco vs peach is really close

more skilled wins

 

[Divinokage]

In general, more skill wins anyways.. =P You forget that the wisdom of matchups that each player have is completely different. The matchup numbers mean little.

 

[choknater]

some matchups are really bad

but among top 7 chars, all matchups are winnable

however for not as godlike stuff (ic, ganon, samus, doc) they have a lot of trouble with certain matchups. but it can be done if u just believe

 

[Divinokage]

Anything can be done, you just have to play better than your opponent.

 

[Dark Hart]

Lol Josh wtfXD

 

[choknater]

if that's the case, then beating kage with ice climbers can be done!

 

[prog]

agreed

except for me. for me it's peach, but that's cause I don't play this game and suck and thus eat dsmashes like it's my job.

i am only here to acknowledge those corgis.

 

[Deleted member]

falco vs peach is even. peach bans ps and falco bans fd or brinstar maybe and they're pretty even everywhere else.

everyone underrates peach so bad. peach is stupid destructive and has tons of tricks that favor more talented players.

 

[ChivalRuse]

What do you mean by "favor more talented players"?

 

[Deleted member]

What do you mean by "favor more talented players"?

"is better for people that are good at smash"

 

[ChivalRuse]

So Peach's advantages become more pronounced the better you are with her?

 

[Jake13]

So Peach's advantages become more pronounced the better you are with her?

armada's turnips > other peach's turnips

or watching for cc to dsmash


trololol


has anyone put to use the invincible leg thing for falco's dsmash? i always forget in game

 

[FoxLisk]

anything you can call a trick favours worse players. if you need tricks to beat your opponent, it's because you can't beat them in standard gameplay. so i disagree with that definitionally, umbreon.

however peach has a lot of tools at her disposal. peach is definitely worse than falco as a character, and i believe that as long as falco uses lasers and platforms to allow himself to choose engagements carefully, falco wins the matchup. the only arena peach has an advantage over him in is punishment, and it's not by a large enough margin to call it even. It's falco's advantage.

 

[eschemat]

in theory, falco's better, but humans playing it makes it more even. the only time it's really falco's advantage is when pp's playing just because he's so precise.

 

[Tee ay eye]

falcos have gotten much harder to punish since mango's falco got good and since peepee rose to stardom since falco players are trying to be more safe and have better spacing and aren't trying as hard to be dashizwiz and lambchops

 

[Orko]

falcos have gotten much harder to punish since mango's falco got good and since peepee rose to stardom since falco players are trying to be more safe and have better spacing and aren't trying as hard to be dashizwiz and lambchops

Speak for yourself.

I try to be DaShizWiz everyday of my life.

 

[Tee ay eye]

being dashizwiz ***** against fast fallers

doesn't work as well vs marth IMO

 

[PK Webb]

shiz is beast.<-notice the period.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

anything you can call a trick favours worse players. if you need tricks to beat your opponent, it's because you can't beat them in standard gameplay.

Completely disagree. A "trick" is another way of labeling a situation that you are comfortable with but maybe they arent, or possibly a specific set of mixups that many players fall into, or even just a combo that doesn't really work, but does unless the opponent acts in a certain way.

In all of these cases, doing these things are no risk with high reward. Unless the opponent knows the match-up, they will surely get into them. You are therefore testing their experience and match-up knowledge by using these tricks. Only by proving they can avoid all of the tricks will the opponent be ready to fight a "standard" game. This describes the mentality of "I assume my opponent is stupid until proven smart".

 

[Dark Hart]

Laser laser

 

[crush]

Forward smash forward smash

 

[choknater]

my favorite trick is to have nana attack through a laser

DYNAMIC MATCHUPS SON, WHAT CAN U DO?

stay awake falcos!

 

[Dr Peepee]

being dashizwiz ***** against fast fallers

doesn't work as well vs marth IMO

Playing like Shiz and Chops ***** vs spacies but makes life hard vs everyone else from what I observe.

Completely disagree. A "trick" is another way of labeling a situation that you are comfortable with but maybe they arent, or possibly a specific set of mixups that many players fall into, or even just a combo that doesn't really work, but does unless the opponent acts in a certain way.

In all of these cases, doing these things are no risk with high reward. Unless the opponent knows the match-up, they will surely get into them. You are therefore testing their experience and match-up knowledge by using these tricks. Only by proving they can avoid all of the tricks will the opponent be ready to fight a "standard" game. This describes the mentality of "I assume my opponent is stupid until proven smart".

Not really sure what to make of this discussion so I'll just let Umbreon respond again to make sure I understand it before posting about it I guess.

 

[Deleted member]

So Peach's advantages become more pronounced the better you are with her?

wow, way to butcher such a simple initial statement. i'd almost think you're doing it on purpose.

peach's advantages at being stupid destructive and a hard punisher are augmented by tricks that are more likely to come from talented, innovative players. i don't know how many times i can restate the same idea.

anything you can call a trick favours worse players. if you need tricks to beat your opponent, it's because you can't beat them in standard gameplay. so i disagree with that definitionally, umbreon.

however peach has a lot of tools at her disposal. peach is definitely worse than falco as a character, and i believe that as long as falco uses lasers and platforms to allow himself to choose engagements carefully, falco wins the matchup. the only arena peach has an advantage over him in is punishment, and it's not by a large enough margin to call it even. It's falco's advantage.

you don't know what you're talking about.

edit: tricks and gimmicks can be lumped together kind of, it's not really a big deal. the idea is that you're looking for a weakness in your opponent to exploit. for peach, if you find said weakness, you're going to hurt them pretty bad. as opposed to say falco where...you're going to laser dair shine. don't act too surprised.

 

[tarheeljks]

think umbreon was saying that, moreso than other characters, peach has abilities that are very dangerous in the hands of a skilled player. the discussion of tricks vs gimmicks vs tools is mostly semantics

 

[JPOBS]

every high tier character has abilities that dangerous in the hands of skilled players. That's why they are high tier. Peach isn't special in that regard.

I like what Sveet had to say about it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

peach is stupid destructive and has tons of tricks that favor more talented players.

Sorry. I didn't see the correlation between tricks and talented players before. But now I do.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

pp check ur pmmmmmsssss grrrrr

 

[Deleted member]

every high tier character has abilities that dangerous in the hands of skilled players. That's why they are high tier. Peach isn't special in that regard.

definitely not. i just think peach's tricks will give you a much higher reward over say fox or sheik if they work.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah...peach trick like wavedash downsmash during a dair approach will be freakin killer lol.

 

[Deleted member]

yeah...peach trick like wavedash downsmash during a dair approach will be freakin killer lol.

I was thinking something more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBaVO-jd-xo

I can't think of many less talented players that could imitate armada, as opposed to say all of the recent shiz falco clones.

 

[tarheeljks]

every high tier character has abilities that dangerous in the hands of skilled players. That's why they are high tier. Peach isn't special in that regard.

I like what Sveet had to say about it.

this is not the extent of what he is saying though