PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[linkoninja]

Control stick is definitely an option though, if you just don't mess up.
Just press Down, then up really fast
then yeah just laser
I've done it a couple times (without thinking) and it doesn't feel too different than jumping with X

 

[JPOBS]

i havent messed up a LHDL in like 2 years. pro status.

 

[Druggedfox]

i havent messed up a LHDL in like 2 years. pro status.

Don't believe you :D

 

[Dark Hart]

I can't correctly LHDL. never have been able to

either one of my lasers is too high (which is what normally happens), or only one comes out

when I do end up doing it right, for some reason I'm turned around and I"m shooting lasers into the blast zones

 

[FoxLisk]

thats bc you suck dark hart

 

[NamiNami]

My suggestion is to use control stick for jumping as well. I've got firebird numerous times under pressure but I've experienced the timing pretty well so I can shoot very low.

Also at situations when I run off of the edge and jump back with 2 lasers I find control stick the most comfortable with me. I can turn around and jump almost on the consecutive frames.

Back when I used X for jumping with double lasers I never got the first laser fast enough, or shot it way too high so I switched to control stick and it works fine.

 

[JPOBS]

Don't believe you :D

haha its the one thing i just never mess up lol idk why

although once in a few hundred i firebird stall on accident but that works in my favor and reminds me that firebird stalling when they expect a LHDL is sooo ****.

like if ur fighting marth and they try to counter your lasers (which is really good cuz most falcos LHDL asap) then u firebird stall or empty ledgehop and they get boned.

there are no mistakes in melee. only mindgames.

 

[~Tac~]

there are no mistakes in melee. only mindgames.

Quoted for troof. Unless you're a Shiek main. Then there's only ftilt.

 

[Walt]

Jumping with the stick makes LHDL super easy, can pick if you want high or low double laser easily. I can ledge hop triple laser with fox jumping with the stick too.

 

[EWC]

Claw lhdl master race reporting in.

 

[Dark Hart]

thats bc you suck dark hart

crack rocks nigga

 

[choknater]

i use down Y

e-z

 

[Captain Smuckers]

Hey guys, would any of you be able to help me figure out how to waveshine on platforms? I'm guessing the timing is just different from the ground but I can't figure it out. The only time I can do it is if I'm hitting someone.

 

[choknater]

the timing is really variable but i find it easiest when i shine just under the platform

 

[crush]

Hey guys, would any of you be able to help me figure out how to waveshine on platforms? I'm guessing the timing is just different from the ground but I can't figure it out. The only time I can do it is if I'm hitting someone.

you'll pass through the platform if you try to shine normally. so you have to already be crouching and then shine or tilt down slightly to crouch then shine + wavedash. if you fast fall your aerials and land on the platform and l cancel you'll be able to waveshine normally because the fast falled aerial makes you not fall through the platform because you were already holding down.

 

[FoxLisk]

Hey guys, would any of you be able to help me figure out how to waveshine on platforms? I'm guessing the timing is just different from the ground but I can't figure it out. The only time I can do it is if I'm hitting someone.

okay. you could be having one of two problems. if you're having the problem crush described, his answer was excellent.

if however you mean shine below the platform and then waveland, your problem is probably one of two things:

1) you're shining at different heights below the platform and that is ****ing up your timing

In which case you want to just do it a whole **** ton of times and get it down for the different spacings

or 2) you're expecting there to be a 6-frame delay between pressing jump and your jump starting (as there is on the ground)

In which case now that you're aware that there isn't (your jump starts immediately when you're already airborne), you can happily adjust to that dramatic timing difference. Realizing this fact allowed me to get platform waveshines down very rapidly. If you're just below a platform, for example, shine -> jump -> airdodge as fast as you can... it's difficult to humanly input them too fast if you're close to the platform. Farther below it you have to learn the timings, but... see (1).

 

[WaterlessFishie]

Quoted for troof. Unless you're a Shiek main. Then there's only ftilt.

Speaking of which, I got ***** by Sheik today, which is kinda frustrating. Any general tips or tricks against her? Especially when I'm trying to recover and all my opponent has to do is stick their leg out and I'm dead?

 

[choknater]

u gotta shut her down offensively. avoid any move that will put her in an edge guarding position against falco, cuz falco will pretty much always die

 

[JPOBS]

Speaking of which, I got ***** by Sheik today, which is kinda frustrating. Any general tips or tricks against her? Especially when I'm trying to recover and all my opponent has to do is stick their leg out and I'm dead?

in general, crouch cancel a lot and get her above you and try to punish hard. use uptilt a lot in combos.

for recovery, don't always DJ right away, shine stall to mix up your timing, DJ and fade back then side b, shorten side B, airdodge on the stage, DJ and regrab the edge when possible.
recovering vs sheik is a matter of making her miss due to timing and trickery.

 

[crush]

in general, crouch cancel a lot and get her above you and try to punish hard. use uptilt a lot in combos.

for recovery, don't always DJ right away, shine stall to mix up your timing, DJ and fade back then side b, shorten side B, airdodge on the stage, DJ and regrab the edge when possible.
recovering vs sheik is a matter of making her miss due to timing and trickery.

what do you do when on dream land you try and laser her but she goes to the right or left platform and starts camping with full hop needles?

 

[linkoninja]

Speaking of camping, and matchups. How do you guys handle the Doc matchup? If we both wanted to we could camp quite a bit, but lasers >> pills
anyday

 

[Sinji]

I camp against Doc. Jump on platforms and wait for an opening.

 

[crush]

Speaking of camping, and matchups. How do you guys handle the Doc matchup? If we both wanted to we could camp quite a bit, but lasers >> pills
anyday

i handle the doc matchup with falco by counterpicking falcon

try and combo him like a samus though since your shine sends him really high

 

[Druggedfox]

Speaking of camping, and matchups. How do you guys handle the Doc matchup? If we both wanted to we could camp quite a bit, but lasers >> pills
anyday

Just "better character" him. If you check out PP vs shroomed from WinterGameFest you see a lot of that. PP didn't particularly know the doc matchup, he just sort of theorycrafted+said "hey I'm a better character". You have better range, priority, tools, edgeguarding, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVYLwkdxrQ0

 

[choknater]

haha dajuan claimed that would never happen again but...

i agree with u drugged. that's what happened to bob$ when falcomist started getting better. falco doc is really in falco's favor, but if doc gets a good hit and converts it, it's really dangerous

of course, that applies to many chars vs falco. just gotta be careful vs doc, cuz he can return lasers and is difficult to 0-death unless u really scout his getup/defensive options

 

[Dark Hart]

sh bair works wonders

 

[mers]

Speaking of which, I got ***** by Sheik today, which is kinda frustrating. Any general tips or tricks against her? Especially when I'm trying to recover and all my opponent has to do is stick their leg out and I'm dead?

Dtilt > Sheik. Seriously, it's so good.

 

[crush]

Dtilt > Sheik. Seriously, it's so good.

only after she up b's on the stage and you need to kill her. its not really good for combos and if she shields it she gets a free grab usually which is bad.

 

[Druggedfox]

haha dajuan claimed that would never happen again but...

i agree with u drugged. that's what happened to bob$ when falcomist started getting better. falco doc is really in falco's favor, but if doc gets a good hit and converts it, it's really dangerous

of course, that applies to many chars vs falco. just gotta be careful vs doc, cuz he can return lasers and is difficult to 0-death unless u really scout his getup/defensive options

Yeah, I didn't expect that to happen at all and I don't expect it to happen again XDDD That said... yeah, better character'd T_T

How's it feel to not play fox/falco/marth/sheik guys? =P

 

[Sinji]

Dtilt > Sheik. Seriously, it's so good.

Dtilit works wonders. I use it as a substitute for Fox'es Usmash.

 

[JPOBS]

what do you do when on dream land you try and laser her but she goes to the right or left platform and starts camping with full hop needles?

theres a few things you can do.

the most obvious to to go on the opposite platform and shoot her. but thats not always great cuz they can quickly dismount and close space.

the other thing you can do is just wait. Full hop needles aren't that great. they cover a very specific area/angle. Not really a threat to 90% of the stage

third option is to get under her, avoid the needles, and do whatever works best to hit her and combo her. She has no priority below her, so if she willingly goes above you frequently, take it as a blessing.

Dtilt > Sheik. Seriously, it's so good.

not really....

its no better than in any other matchup. I mean you can use it in some random combos and for high percent edgeguard kills, but its not at all what breaks the matchup. That would be uptilt.

 

[crush]

Dtilit works wonders. I use it as a substitute for Fox'es Usmash.

ur usin it rong

methinks.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Speaking of which, I got ***** by Sheik today, which is kinda frustrating. Any general tips or tricks against her? Especially when I'm trying to recover and all my opponent has to do is stick their leg out and I'm dead?

-CC is your friend. CC'ing tilts primarily and then punishing with shines if you can is your best stuff to do vs sheik.

-Sheik can't really approach, so you have a range you can stay out of and be "safe" from Sheik. You might get needled or dash attacked this way, but as long as you aren't doing something that gets you messed up by those two things then it'll be alright(also you can CC dash attack lol).

-Don't get cornered. Sheik is great at the corner game. Try to control the middle.

-sweetspotting tends to help avoid a lot of Sheik's edgeguard stuff unless she's holding the edge already obviously lol. Otherwise going far above her is about your only other trick as far as I know. Guessing games give you a chance at least lol.

Speaking of camping, and matchups. How do you guys handle the Doc matchup? If we both wanted to we could camp quite a bit, but lasers >> pills
anyday

Bair and Uptilt **** vs Doc. =) Bair outspaces most/all of Doc's approaches, and Uptilt pops him up/helps combo well from below/shield pressure stuff. Beyond that, don't do anything he can obviously see coming as Docs know he's stubby and like to CC dsmash you and that can kill you quickly if you're trying to SHFFL/laser then you die since you're holding down lol. Respect the Nair if it's been out for a while as the damage usually isn't worth the challenge(you can punish landing lag on it anyway). CC Uairs if he's below you so you don't get juggled....and try to avoid a boxing game with Doc as his CC Dsmash and his jab to Dsmash/grab mixup is rough. Also don't stay on his shield too long or Usmash OOS can reverse the game quickly on you. It's fun to bait/space out though.

Camping vs Doc is weird. If Doc comes at you he's usually Nair'ing so avoid/Bair that as the situation calls for it. If you approach just don't do it while doc is falling back or doing some other obvious stuff that means he's just baiting you and take his space first or something. He has a cape so the camping game is kinda dumb lol. You can also Bair/Uptilt/Ftilt(I think) pills so Doc can see his strategy won't be effective if he does camp with them for some reason.....I mean Doc really can't camp anyway lol sometimes he just takes a while with pills for some reason.

Just "better character" him. If you check out PP vs shroomed from WinterGameFest you see a lot of that. PP didn't particularly know the doc matchup, he just sort of theorycrafted+said "hey I'm a better character". You have better range, priority, tools, edgeguarding, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVYLwkdxrQ0

Well I've watched a lot of Docs play and seen Shroomed vs Zhu/Mango's Falco some so I just kinda learned what to avoid from there lol. Plus Shroomed didn't exactly trick me much lol. I could just react to whatever he did usually and be fine.

Dtilt > Sheik. Seriously, it's so good.

I Dtilt when I CC on accident vs Sheik and sometimes it works? Other than that I don't know how Dtilt would **** vs sheik besides that kill when she recovers that everyone already mentioned lol.

what do you do when on dream land you try and laser her but she goes to the right or left platform and starts camping with full hop needles?

Laser from the other side platform or get under her and make the needles useless. Or you can threaten her with your Bair/shine/Uair from just under her.

Yeah, I didn't expect that to happen at all and I don't expect it to happen again XDDD That said... yeah, better character'd T_T

How's it feel to not play fox/falco/marth/sheik guys? =P

Why don't you expect it to happen again?

 

[Druggedfox]

My usual answer: You're a scrub.

Other answer: If shroomed is at the level where hes beating/playing even to cali's finest, I expect him to be able to at least pretend to put up a fight vs the top player. I hardly think it a was a fluke, but I'd expect more out of a top cali player than to just get steam rolled in 4 minutes twice in a row. That said... I'd like to see you do it again =P

Edit: On the other hand, if you're 3 stocking their other top players too, then it wouldn't be odd for it to happen again. Gonna **** all of WC?

 

[Dr Peepee]

My usual answer: You're a scrub.

Other answer: If shroomed is at the level where hes beating/playing even to cali's finest, I expect him to be able to at least pretend to put up a fight vs the top player. I hardly think it a was a fluke, but I'd expect more out of a top cali player than to just get steam rolled in 4 minutes twice in a row. That said... I'd like to see you do it again =P

Edit: On the other hand, if you're 3 stocking their other top players too, then it wouldn't be odd for it to happen again. Gonna **** all of WC?

Oh, well I didn't know he made some sick improvement in this time frame because I haven't seen much of him since WGF lol, but aight.

I mean Mango steamrolls all of Cali from what I understand so would it be THAT surprising?

Either way yeah I gotta **** those guys. =)

 

[Druggedfox]

Nah, I doubt he had some sick improvement. I just think that a player of his caliber *should* be able to not get double 3 stocked in 4 minutes, assuming he's on the same level as lucky/zhu/SS/hugs etc.

Hmm, mango's style is different than yours though; yours is a lot more consistent, while his is variable in the way he goes for certain risks/reads etc. If you 3 stock him the first time, you'll keep 3 stocking him; mango would do like lots of random ****, but also lots of moves where he mis-read that might lead to matches being closer than they should sometimes. So sometimes he'll steam roll somebody, sometimes it'll be a bit closer.

Hmm, whatever though; just **** everybody and we won't need to have this discussion =P Ready for that mango "gay" fox?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Mango namesearches. =)

 

[tarheeljks]

norcal had a tourney called shroomed sucks for a reason



(he won it lol)


edit: mango went samus on him iirc

 

[Druggedfox]

Mango namesearches. =)

hahahaha AIM eventually then, its been a while

PP, whats your current favorite matchup??

 

[linkoninja]

Good **** on the advice PP

I <3 Laser-D-Tilt
but other than that it's not that good