Powershielding Q&A

[Pi]

I have been experimenting with powershielding non-projectile moves as a viable option to counter (mainly aerial) approaches.

I'm curious to know if anyone else has done any testing with powershielding, and any walls they have run into, or what stopped you from becoming consistent with it

I feel like the only thing stopping me from becoming consistent with it is lack of means to practice it.

with 4 frames to work with, i think it's been severely underestimated, at least in some matchups (maybe not the spacies, or jiggs)

I'm not too familiar with other fighters, but I know parrying has been prevalent in them, anyone know the frame window for some other popular fighters where parrying is an integral part of the gameplay?

And I know in 64 that yoshi's parry, while only ~4 frames, can be used effectively to counter attacks

 

[Kanelol]

I've noticed powershielding next to the ledge of a platform or something is actually really useful

powershield f-smash or something --> ledge/platform cancel aerial --> ****

aside from that i don't really powershield that much.. getting stuck in shield is kind of a major flaw of mine

 

[the_CAM_factor]

I have tried it and it can be useful. If someone is in a habit of doing late or early aerials and doesn't mix it up it certainly feels like an option if you are good enough to try it. If i do get a powershield on an aerial i usually just get a grab in because they will probably miss the L-cancel. I can't think of anyone who is a 100% consistent with power shielding aerials or even smashes and if you miss it the consequences could be extremely punishing. I don't know if it is worth the risk. I will be interested to see other peoples responses.

 

[ArcNatural]

Armada is good at this I believe. So is Zoso, a friend of mine. Most of the smashers around me have gotten used to reacting when we powershield anything in general really. But those are the only two I know who actively try to powershield moves to stuff. And I know Vman is active in advancing the Yoshi parry in melee. So I'm sure the AZ guys have probably messed around with it enough to be at least aware of the possibilities as well. I'm pretty sure though that most solid melee groups have a few players that are aware and try to do this nowadays.

I mainly get them because I try to minimize my shield time as much as possible. Think I'm going to get hit? Shield. If nothing happens instantly wavedash/jump/stuff to get out of shield.

 

[t3h Icy]

Diakonos powershields a lot, but I think mostly projectiles.

 

[mers]

Armada powershields Falco approaches a lot, then downsmashes. It's really good near the ledge because most of the time they're holding down to fastfall, so they get sent off at a really low angle.

 

[ChivalRuse]

What do you mean by 4 frames? I thought the projectile/attack just has to be inside of your shield at the exact frame that you activate it ...

Can somebody explain to me how powershielding works.

 

[leffen]

Random ****:
Yoshi can get a guaranteed powershield by just rolling -> holding light shield and in some other ways. I have no idea why LOL. You can wait 2 seconds before hitting his shield and he will still powershield a lot of attacks.
magus ?

 

[-ACE-]

Axe and overtriforce are the most impressive powershielders that currently play imo, just judging off somewhat recent vids.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Don't forget Diakonos.

Lucien is really good at maximizing the reward for his powershields, too ...

And obviously M2K ...

 

[Pi]

What do you mean by 4 frames? I thought the projectile/attack just has to be inside of your shield at the exact frame that you activate it ...

Can somebody explain to me how powershielding works.

that's what i thought for a long time too
but it's not the case

when you full press your shield, like one frame you're not pressing any part of your shield, and the next frame it's fully pressed, the powershield window activates and will reflect projectiles for 2 frames, and powershield any non-projectile attack for 4 frames

thanks for all the input people

can yall link me some vids where people take advantage of powershielding?
like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiPzldoIROc#

 

[hectohertz]

powershielding is cool but is really necessary with yoshi since he can't jc his shield

just watch vman play

and if you wanna get good at it

level 9 falco on FD, no time limit

drill till fingers bleed

 

[Pi]

i'm not talking about powershielding projectiles though, i can already do that and have means to practice that

what i need is to sit down and powershield non-projectile attacks so i can get use to dsmashing after the hitlag & shieldhitstun

i've tried csticking w/ my toe and powershielding Fsmashes but those are like...really easy when you know they're coming, and aren't usually a factor in 'real' matches

whereas people aerial my shield a lot more, i just want some more options aside from UpB when I -know- someone is going to attack my shield

 

[Bones0]

that's what i thought for a long time too
but it's not the case

when you full press your shield, like one frame you're not pressing any part of your shield, and the next frame it's fully pressed, the powershield window activates and will reflect projectiles for 2 frames, and powershield any non-projectile attack for 4 frames

thanks for all the input people

can yall link me some vids where people take advantage of powershielding?
like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiPzldoIROc#

Is this an accurate breakdown of what you're saying?

Frame 0: You press L or R and you are still vulnerable.
Frame 1-2: Your shield is fully up and power shields Projectiles and Attacks (non-projectile stuff).
Frame 3-4: You power shield Attacks.
Frame 5~: You stop power shielding stuff.

 

[Pi]

Is this an accurate breakdown of what you're saying?

Frame 0: You press L or R and you are still vulnerable.
Frame 1-2: Your shield is fully up and power shields Projectiles and Attacks (non-projectile stuff).
Frame 3-4: You power shield Attacks.
Frame 5~: You stop power shielding stuff.

if by Frame 0 you mean the frame in game that you press the button IRL, and frame 1 is the frame that it's read In Game, then yes, precisely.

As long as it's a full shield press, and no partial

 

[Druggedfox]

yo knihT

I've done a lot of experimenting with powershielding actual moves... It's really, really easy in my opinion; it just takes some practice and is widely applicable against any character depending on the situation.

By far the most applicable scenario is when somebody is approaching from some sort of vertical, because you can just crouch --> powershield which makes powershielding infinitely easier. This is really great against falco players in general who try to dair at you, just as an example.

I wouldn't say any part of powershielding is hard enough that it has stopped me from becoming consistent with it, as I haven't put any conscious effort into it and it is simply improving over time. I would say that powershielding is also applicable vs moves that are really easy to visually see coming out: ganons fair/dair, marth's fsmash, etc. Any move with noticeable start up is usually fairly easy to powershield and punish with.

I'm kind of rambling because I'm not exactly sure what you want addressed by this thread, but in short powershielding non-projectiles really isn't too hard and it has wide application especially because even when I'm not intentionally thinking "hey lets powershield this" I almost always know when I'm going to get a powershield anyway so it is consistently abusable. If you can elaborate/clarify on what you want to know, I might be able to help.

 

[DoH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FVoNAbjZ84&feature=player_detailpage#t=165s

I feel like I'm pretty good at powershielding moves, especially space animal dairs, nairs, and bairs. I don't have anyone really near me to practice, so with Peach, I just played a level nine for like 10 minutes and only attacked with ps downsmash or nair out of ps. Also, before you plug your controller in, hold down one of the shield triggers; this disables the light shield and makes it more like a button rather than a spring. You can also mod your controller.

Here's a video I made in 09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4COWe9ILFog

 

[Bones0]

You can power shield with light shield though, so how does making it like a button help? Is it just preference?

 

[Pi]

I was mainly just looking for any walls that people have hit as powershielding seems to have quite a few misconceptions surrounding it, and I haven't noticed it be an integral part of the metagame

I actively use the lightshield aspect of my R button though, and am fine to powershield without it

And bones, you cannot powershield with a light shield, your shield must be instantly fully pressed to activate the window

I'm going to be working with this more, samus could use some better OoS options x.X

Appreciate your guys input, I'm pretty knowledgeable about the aspects of Powershielding, so if yall have any questions feel free to ask and I'll try to get back to you

it's good to hear that you guys aren't thinking it's too hard to be consistent with, 4frames in this game is like an eternity lol

 

[Bones0]

Wow, that would explain why I suck at it. lol I was always under the same belief as Chival, that the projectile had to be within your shield, so I assumed light shielding would make it easier because the shield is so much larger. X_X

Thanks.

 

[DoH]

You can still light shield with the other trigger

The only problems I have are sometimes I hold shield too long and end up spot dodging =\

 

[Pi]

i know, i was just saying i have no problems Pshielding w/o doing the soft mod
and yea i was noticing that too when i would try to Pshield dsmash

 

[ryuu seika]

Wouldn't Csticking smashes fix that issue? I Cstick all my smashes anyway.

 

[Pi]

Wouldn't Csticking smashes fix that issue? I Cstick all my smashes anyway.

you still spotdodge if you press down on the cstick while holding shield

 

[Hydro_Smasher]

There was a time, back awhile ago to practice against projectiles, I would put in a blank controller, control a laser, or a turnip with my feet. Then I would try and dash dance, and power shield.

(I play Falcon mainly, second Fox)
Then, while I was playing with my roomate, one time I RAN towards his Fox, and he tried to dash attack, or up smash, and I would power shield it. I was incredibily surprised with myself.

So, first get the physical feel for powersheilding projectiles like I said earlier, then try and play people, and expiremet once you've got great timing.

Once I learned to space efficiently, and think about what I was doing in game, I seriously was able to powershielfd 80% of time when I need it, which is awesome. Keep trying.

 

[Dark Sonic]

You can power shield with light shield though, so how does making it like a button help? Is it just preference?

No you can't 0_O

 

[Bones0]

No you can't 0_O

Wow, that would explain why I suck at it. lol I was always under the same belief as Chival, that the projectile had to be within your shield, so I assumed light shielding would make it easier because the shield is so much larger. X_X

Thanks.

I realize that now. lol You don't need to rub it in. XP

 

[Pi]

There was a time, back awhile ago to practice against projectiles, I would put in a blank controller, control a laser, or a turnip with my feet. Then I would try and dash dance, and power shield.

(I play Falcon mainly, second Fox)
Then, while I was playing with my roomate, one time I RAN towards his Fox, and he tried to dash attack, or up smash, and I would power shield it. I was incredibily surprised with myself.

So, first get the physical feel for powersheilding projectiles like I said earlier, then try and play people, and expiremet once you've got great timing.

Once I learned to space efficiently, and think about what I was doing in game, I seriously was able to powershielfd 80% of time when I need it, which is awesome. Keep trying.

yea i found the same thing would happen when i would try to PS an expected laser, but he would attack instead

now i'm looking to expand on it

 

[Diakonos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FVoNAbjZ84&feature=player_detailpage#t=165s

I feel like I'm pretty good at powershielding moves, especially space animal dairs, nairs, and bairs. I don't have anyone really near me to practice, so with Peach, I just played a level nine for like 10 minutes and only attacked with ps downsmash or nair out of ps. Also, before you plug your controller in, hold down one of the shield triggers; this disables the light shield and makes it more like a button rather than a spring. You can also mod your controller.

Here's a video I made in 09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4COWe9ILFog

Very cool video. I remember you showed me the powershield dsmash at G$'s house. Go get em.

 

[Signia]

I am trying to add powershielding to my game against spacies. As a Marth main, any trick you can use to get more grabs is essential. At a certain spacing, falco's SHL and SHFFL aerial will hit at about the same time, and you can power shield either with the right timing. Also, it's easy to react to a falco jumping, and if you time it on the early side, it's pretty safe to attempt.

The main problem with powershielding attacks is that the advantage gained from it is so fleeting and almost impossible to react to (unless I'm underestimating the length of shield stun). The solution is to option select with a shield grab (or other OoS response). If the powershield is successful, you get a grab (or whatever). If unsuccessful... nothing happens. You continue shielding as if you never attempted anything because if you try to grab in the middle of shield stun, it won't come out.

A shield grab is an especially good choice after a powershield because you'll still be holding shield just in case you fail. You'd have to get fancy in order to do a c-stick smash because holding shield and using the cstick causes a buffer roll/spotdodge/jump input. In order to pull off the option select you'd have to let go of shield for the moment you want to smash and hit it again before the shield stun would end.

The biggest risk is misreading your opponent's commitment to an attack. If he doesn't end up attacking out of that short hop and instead runs through you or DJs away, you'll whiff a grab. Of course, if he attempts to "tomahawk" he'll just get grabbed.

And of course there's the inherent risk of powershielding because it requires a full press, activating the 20 frame tech window and the 40 frame tech cooldown. If you get shield poked, you could miss a tech, and if you're not expecting to miss the tech you'll be DIing the direction you wanted to roll and could end up west coasting.

Doing this combined with SDIing drills and CC-SDI nairs into grabs makes approaching very difficult for your opponent.

 

[Pi]

the way i envision powershielding non-projectile attacks is when you predict that your opponent is going to approach and attack, and that attack is going to collide with your shield in 1-4 frames.
basically like a parry

if you whiff a powershield, nothing comes of it but a shield drop, which you can WD out of, or roll, or spot dodge if need be
or, depending on how early you realize your mistake, just hold your shield

 

[Metal Reeper]

Wait.....I powershield projectiles like crazy so....it's twice as easy to powershield non-projectiles? Wow too easy lol.

Btw this is abit unrelated. Is there a way to get a CPU to hit you the same exact way everytime?
Cause I want to practice stuff OoS.

EDIT. Kinht I think you were the one that said crouch when Falco is daring from above and powershield and it's easier? Why is that easier? Like the mechanics and such. Is it because your body is lower, and when you shield you stand up so it's like the shield and the Dair collide and it's easier to time/PS?

 

[Seikend]

@Metal Reeper

Second frame of shield from a standing and crouching start.


Yeah, by crouching you increase the distance between the top edge of the shield and your character, increasing the window you have to PS.

It's why Bowser almost never powershields, his shield hardly sticks out from his body in the early frames, so attacks usually hit Bowser rather than the PS shield.



Generally crouches make vertical attacks easier to PS, but horizontal attacks harder. It depends on the character though.

For horizontal attacks, it's best to angle your shield towards the attack. That's why it seems easier to PS things if you're running at them, you naturally end up angling your shield from the run.

 

[Metal Reeper]

^ Wow that makes so much sense. Thank you so much <3

 

[Doval]

I know this was two weeks ago but I just came back to the forums from a long hiatus and this caught my eye.

The main problem with powershielding attacks is that the advantage gained from it is so fleeting and almost impossible to react to (unless I'm underestimating the length of shield stun). The solution is to option select with a shield grab (or other OoS response). If the powershield is successful, you get a grab (or whatever). If unsuccessful... nothing happens. You continue shielding as if you never attempted anything because if you try to grab in the middle of shield stun, it won't come out.

Powershielding doesn't remove shield stun at all. It simply lets you do any attack during your shield drop animation - it gives you more options out of shield, but doesn't give any frame advantage. Because of that, the option select you're describing isn't possible. To attempt to take advantage of a powershield you have to drop your shield (if you hold it more than 3 frames after the stun wears off, you lose the powershield) and attempt your attack; if you fail the PS, the attack won't come out but you've still dropped your shield. At best, you could input the attack immediately followed by a spot dodge (rolls won't work), jump, or jump-canceled grab/up-smash/up-B so if your PS fails, you can fall back on the second action.

More PS facts:
* The PS window starts as soon as you click the button, not as soon as your shield comes up. If you hold L/R while your character is recovering from an attack, you can't powershield at all unless the attack ends within the next 3 frames. Brawl doesn't take that into account which is why accidental powershields are common in Brawl.
* Only projectiles have to strike the center of your shield. You can still powershield normal attacks with the edges.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this post is mostly relevant to powershielding normal attacks. When you powershield projectiles, the game acts as if it never hit you, so it behaves exactly the same as bringing your shield up without getting hit. From that point of view, powershielding projectiles does give you a speed advantage since you can reflect it and wavedash out of shield on the next frame.

 

[Mahie]

Did you guys know that if you hold a trigger when plugging your controller in, it disables light shielding but makes powershielding much easier ? I don't exactly why, but it does. ( It's called the trigger trick.)

If anyone has the actual reason why this works, or the frame data for it, I'd be very interested.

 

[Strong Badam]

My consistency with powershielding is weird. I'll either be really good at it or really bad. Kinda depends on the day.
Since I use DK, it's pretty hard, especially since I'm switching from light shielding to full shielding to do so. It's taxing on the brain when you can't rely on muscle memory to shield properly because your character's shield is awful. :/
Usually the first step is to turn around, then crouch, then go. If I can't, turnaround happens in about 2 frames so it's better in a pinch. If I can't do either I just light shield and do some shield DI to mess with my opponent. Powershielding normal attacks is generally eh with DK because he doesn't have many options to punish with.
I guess this is pointless since no one else uses DK but heyyyy.

 

[Doval]

Did you guys know that if you hold a trigger when plugging your controller in, it disables light shielding but makes powershielding much easier ? I don't exactly why, but it does. ( It's called the trigger trick.)

If anyone has the actual reason why this works, or the frame data for it, I'd be very interested.

Huh. I didn't know that...apparently the L/R buttons work just like the analog stick, and whatever value they had when they get plugged in becomes the center/unpressed value. If you push them in halfway when you plug them in, you can still soft shield, but you have to push the trigger past the halfway point. You can even calibrate both triggers separately.

The reason it would make powershielding easier is that you can't accidentally soft shield attacks when you block at the last second. It can happen if you don't push the trigger fast enough and the game makes you soft shield for a frame as your finger makes its way down to the bottom.

 

[Mahie]

Huh. I didn't know that...apparently the L/R buttons work just like the analog stick, and whatever value they had when they get plugged in becomes the center/unpressed value. If you push them in halfway when you plug them in, you can still soft shield, but you have to push the trigger past the halfway point.

The reason it would make powershielding easier is that you can't accidentally soft shield attacks. It can happen if you don't push the trigger fast enough and the game makes you soft shield for a frame as your finger makes its way down to the bottom.

You have to push them down completely, meaning you can't use the analog function of the trigger anymore, only the basic button function. It's possible though that it somehow skips a frame or something, making the powershield window 5 frames instead of 4. ( 5 being a random number but if it does increase the window I doubt it adds 2 frames to the original 4, that's be really broken.)

 

[Doval]

Nah, the window stays the same. Like I said, it prevents you from doing accidental soft shields, which can screw up your powershield attempts.