Powershielding Q&A

[MTKO]

I found this on DC++ a while back: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XGTXZGX0
The file contains images of the PS areas with all the characters and in different positions. I don't remember who uploaded it, but it was created by Magus, so all credit goes to him.

 

[Signia]

Powershielding doesn't remove shield stun at all. It simply lets you do any attack during your shield drop animation - it gives you more options out of shield, but doesn't give any frame advantage.

Wait, what?! So the only way to take advantage of powershielding attacks is if you release the shield within the 3 frames and do a move you normally couldn't because of the shield? I guess I thought it was just like PSing projectiles, where it's as if nothing hit you... but this changes everything. Without any frame advantage, I can't see this as a viable counter to shield pressure, as you only get access to attacks that are only slightly faster than your normal out of shield options, and while the fox/falco will just shine with the normal timing you gotta release the trigger and do your attack frame perfect in order to for your fast attacks to actually come out faster than normal. And yet, it still seems work pretty well for certain players. You're sure it doesn't get rid of shieldstun?

 

[Doval]

I found this on DC++ a while back: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XGTXZGX0
The file contains images of the PS areas with all the characters and in different positions. I don't remember who uploaded it, but it was created by Magus, so all credit goes to him.

Thanks for the link. I'm sure people without access to debug mode will find it handy.

Wait, what?! So the only way to take advantage of powershielding attacks is if you release the shield within the 3 frames and do a move you normally couldn't because of the shield?

Well, between the hit lag and the shield stun, it's gonna be 10-20 frames before you have to let go of the button and attack (the 3 frame holding limit starts AFTER the shield stun ends.) If you were deliberately going for a powershield, that should be enough time to confirm success/failure (given the 4 frame window of opportunity, it's not terribly hard to time IF you see the attack coming.) But yes, I'm dead certain it doesn't get rid of shield stun.

Strictly speaking Fox/Falco could shine 3 frames earlier than usual since they no longer have to jump and wait 'til they're airborne. It'd definitely be the fastest out-of-shield option in the game other than Rest. They'd also be guaranteed a wavedash afterwards, whereas out of shield they have to time the shine precisely or they'll be airborne. Other characters can at the very least use a jab, the fastest of which hits on frame 2, with many others coming out on 3. It's true that the frame advantage gain isn't massive, but in situations where a grab or up-smash would've been guaranteed anyways, you may gain access to much stronger options (e.g. an f-smash.)

Shield pressure is very weak for characters that aren't spacies. Most attacks leave the attacker at a significant frame disadvantage, and the best aerials simply break even. Fox/Falco are the exception since the shine comes out in 1 frame, they can cancel it quickly, and many out of shield options are 7 frames or slower. From a certain point of view shield pressure doesn't exist, since everyone can roll or sidestep after shielding a hit. Even Fox and Falco's shield pressure tactics can be rolled out of after the shine comes out.

 

[Stratford]

Did you guys know that if you hold a trigger when plugging your controller in, it disables light shielding but makes powershielding much easier ? I don't exactly why, but it does. ( It's called the trigger trick.)

If anyone has the actual reason why this works, or the frame data for it, I'd be very interested.

Just tried it. It's legit. This is good to know.

 

[hectohertz]

that's pretty cool, is that legal in tourney?

 

[Mahie]

that's pretty cool, is that legal in tourney?

As of now it is, as far as I know, but Armada told me it might not stay legal forever.

 

[Stratford]

that's pretty cool, is that legal in tourney?

It is if nobody notices you doing it.

eh heh heh heh heh heh.......

 

[Pi]

As of now it is, as far as I know, but Armada told me it might not stay legal forever.

It probably will

I have tried it both ways and honestly don't see a huge benefit from doing it.

In fact it affected my air dodge timing, which is pretty important for me as samus to get grapples at the right time. Especially if I'm rising grappleing

 

[Mahie]

I'll try to get videos from myself using it soon, because I really do abuse it as Marth.

 

[Stratford]

Ok the disadvantage is that it might mess up the timing for any other tasks you use R to perform. But if you just happen to powershield with R, and do everything else with L (like me!)... I can see it being beneficial.

 

[Mahie]

Ok the disadvantage is that it might mess up the timing for any other tasks you use R to perform. But if you just happen to powershield with R, and do everything else with L (like me!)... I can see it being beneficial.

That's also the way I do it. Everything but powershield with R, and L for powershielding only.

 

[Bones0]

The trigger trick doesn't actually cut frames, does it? My friend has been using it and it seems like he gets more powershields, but I can't help feeling it's more placebo than anything. You still have to push the trigger down the same amount, so I don't see how you would be shielding faster. The only difference is if you mess up a powershield with the trigger trick you get hit. If you mess up without the trick, you light shield the attack/projectile. If it's useful I may have to start using R for powershielding (since I use L for everything else).

 

[Pi]

The trigger trick doesn't actually cut frames, does it? My friend has been using it and it seems like he gets more powershields, but I can't help feeling it's more placebo than anything. You still have to push the trigger down the same amount, so I don't see how you would be shielding faster. The only difference is if you mess up a powershield with the trigger trick you get hit. If you mess up without the trick, you light shield the attack/projectile. If it's useful I may have to start using R for powershielding (since I use L for everything else).

it's basically that

if you're fast enough w/ the trigger it really doesn't matter if you have it soft modded or not

taking the spring out is another issue, since that actually aids you (a little) in actually pressing the button

 

[Stratford]

Yea it doesn't cut frames, it just makes it so you won't mess up by accidentally light shielding.

That's also the way I do it. Everything but powershield with R, and L for powershielding only.

Cool. Are you left handed?

 

[DualCats]

The trigger trick doesn't actually cut frames, does it? My friend has been using it and it seems like he gets more powershields, but I can't help feeling it's more placebo than anything. You still have to push the trigger down the same amount, so I don't see how you would be shielding faster. The only difference is if you mess up a powershield with the trigger trick you get hit. If you mess up without the trick, you light shield the attack/projectile. If it's useful I may have to start using R for powershielding (since I use L for everything else).

If you do the trigger trick, though, you can have the trigger almost completely depressed without activating your shield such that a sharp twitch would make your character shield. You can anticipate projectiles this way and react accordingly, such as in a fight against a Falco. I really don't think it offers a terribly significant difference but it's technically a difference.

 

[beencake]

this has nothing to do with your thread lol but 3 i saw you launching missiles while holding the ledge and re grabbing it after the the missiles lag, i cant figure out how you do this lol an tips?

 

[lwouis]

wth is this thread?

"I don't understand why PS is considered hard to be consistent at". Well maybe because it's so damn precise and specific to the attack you counter and the character/shield you have?

It's like, why do Fox player have troubles being godlike? Just look at this set with Mango (fox) vs Armada. If it was easy to have such an amazing execution, then every fox would play like that and rank higher.

It's just so hard to be frame-perfect over a match/tourney. The same applies to PS.

 

[Mahie]

Yea it doesn't cut frames, it just makes it so you won't mess up by accidentally light shielding.



Cool. Are you left handed?

Nope, right handed but I feel more comfortable that way.

A few vids in which I use the Trigger Trick :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCF8QLoJU0w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TgS63aBkLI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ti-i5B6My8

 

[Stratford]

I see you crouching with Marth, presumably to increase your chances of getting a powershield.

Do you find this tactic useful with Fox as well?

 

[Ripple]

marth and roy have different crouching shield properties than everyone else. at least I believe m2k or magus told me that

 

[Mahie]

I see you crouching with Marth, presumably to increase your chances of getting a powershield.

Do you find this tactic useful with Fox as well?

Since, in order to Powershield, you have to shield right as the attack is going to hit you, the easiest way is to wait until it's actually inside the shield range, then shield.

It's most effective for characters like Marth, Roy or Sheik, who, when they crouch, are much, much lower than their usual standing position, as the shield will actually take the space above them as well, thus making Powershielding attacks/projectiles incoming from above much, much easier.

Sum up :

Step 1 : Crouch
Step 2 : Wait until the attack/projectile is going to hit you. (Coming from above is the easiest)
Step 3 : Press Shield. Since the attack is already within shield range, you don't have to time it, it will Powershield.


The easiest way to verify this process is to pick Sheik, crouch, and try to powershield Falco's lasers. As soon as they're above you, shield.

 

[Stratford]

The easiest way to verify this process is to pick Sheik, crouch, and try to powershield Falco's lasers. As soon as they're above you, shield.

Wow that's so cool. You can still powershield the laser after it's passed a bit over your head. Huge window.

 

[ru5514n]

Just a random question that's been bugging me lately:

Is it possible to powershield more than one projectile or attack at once? It seems like it should be possible, but I've never been able to test this out.

 

[Bones0]

Just a random question that's been bugging me lately:

Is it possible to powershield more than one projectile or attack at once? It seems like it should be possible, but I've never been able to test this out.

WOW that's an awesome idea. Someone powershielding 2 charge shots at once, each from a Samus on either side of him. @.@

 

[Pi]

this has nothing to do with your thread lol but 3 i saw you launching missiles while holding the ledge and re grabbing it after the the missiles lag, i cant figure out how you do this lol an tips?

you have to do it really quickly lol

wth is this thread?

"I don't understand why PS is considered hard to be consistent at". Well maybe because it's so damn precise and specific to the attack you counter and the character/shield you have?

It's like, why do Fox player have troubles being godlike? Just look at this set with Mango (fox) vs Armada. If it was easy to have such an amazing execution, then every fox would play like that and rank higher.

It's just so hard to be frame-perfect over a match/tourney. The same applies to PS.

u troll me bro?

 

[Falcoty]

The reason the 'Trigger trick' works is because of the same principle as if you hold your joystick or c-stick a little off center when turning on the console (actually both work the same if you just do it while plugging in your controller), it accepts its position as 'unpressed' and with L or R, if you have it pressed, then there is no in between 'unpressed' and 'fully pressed', it's all or nothing.

Powershielding definitely doesn't remove hit stun. Try powershielding ganon's warlock fist (lvl 9 cpu's love it), and buffer a roll or dodge with c-stick. You can't do it until many frames after.

Powershielding projectiles is extra win, as said earlier. Most characters with a decent WD and grab speed can powershield falco's laser, full length wavedash, and grab him.

The only use I have found for powershielding non-projectiles is that traction either doesn't apply or is severely reduced, meaning attacks won't push you away, making punishing more possible when under pressure.

EDIT: Bumped for knowledge

 

[Mahie]

There are lots of uses to powershield non-projectiles moves. One think I like to do is Powershield the aerial approach of a Falco with Marth, and then Counter the shine that comes right after. Works everytime. And you obviously can't do that with a normal shield.

 

[Dark Sonic]

The reason the 'Trigger trick' works is because of the same principle as if you hold your joystick or c-stick a little off center when turning on the console (actually both work the same if you just do it while plugging in your controller), it accepts its position as 'unpressed' and with L or R, if you have it pressed, then there is no in between 'unpressed' and 'fully pressed', it's all or nothing.

Powershielding definitely doesn't remove hit stun. Try powershielding ganon's warlock fist (lvl 9 cpu's love it), and buffer a roll or dodge with c-stick. You can't do it until many frames after.

Powershielding projectiles is extra win, as said earlier. Most characters with a decent WD and grab speed can powershield falco's laser, full length wavedash, and grab him.

The only use I have found for powershielding non-projectiles is that traction either doesn't apply or is severely reduced, meaning attacks won't push you away, making punishing more possible when under pressure.

EDIT: Bumped for knowledge

Powershielding projectiles: 0 Shieldstun (shield hitlag still applies I believe), 0 shield knockback

Powershielding melee attakcks: Normal shieldstun. Can cancel from shield into attacks (unsure exactly when window closes, but it's shortly after the shieldstun is over). Increase shield knockback.

So you're actually wrong in the second part. Powershielding INCREASES the amount you're pushed away. Try it with Falcon Punch for example.

That powershield counter thing is neat, but I think you'd have better luck spacing yourself a little farther away (so that the powershield pushes you out of shine range) and just grabbing. I've even gotten away with powershield->uptilt a couple times.

 

[Strong Badam]

you dont cancel from shield into other attacks. you go from shieldstun to standing animation (skips the 15ish frame shield drop animation) and can do whatever there.

 

[Falcoty]

So you're actually wrong in the second part. Powershielding INCREASES the amount you're pushed away. Try it with Falcon Punch for example.

You were correct about my being incorrect. I kept Ganon as a opponent (hard to beat his slow high stun moves for testing), and played with Luigi. I did notice about a 50% increase in the distance I was being pushed from some of his attacks (mainly forward-b)

So really, it seems as though powershielding is actually detrimental outside of defense from projectiles. It sends you further (which COULD be good I guess), and all it does is eliminate shield-drop animation, which isn't really an issue since you'll mostly be wanting to grab or jump anyways. Plus it's risky to even attempt.

 

[Mahie]

No it's absolutely not detrimental if you can pull it off consistently.

 

[Pi]

option select w/ nair OoS on an attempted powershield

it's not a true option select but if you **** up the jump timing you will jab
and if you do it righ tyou will nair any way

 

[Falcoty]

How is it not? Powershielding non-projectiles does:

Causes greater knockback (bad if you're trying to punish, unless you're marth or a grapple grabber).
Causes no shield-drop animation (irrelevant, as you can wavedash, grab, or jump to avoid this anyways)

Very likely to be negative plus zero is still very likely to be negative.

What would be good about pulling it off consistently?

 

[Mahie]

It allows you to do any move out of shield. It allows you to shield grab way, way faster as well. I gave you the example of the Powershield - Counter on an Aerial-Shine a few posts back, try doing it without PSing.

 

[Strong Badam]

It doesn't speed up shield grab.
& causing no shield drop animation is not irrelevant in most cases. being able to dash/ftilt/fsmash is never detrimental.

 

[Pi]

you can't dash >.>
there is still a shield drop animation, you can just interupt it with a/b moves

i'm pretty sure i tested this ish before.

 

[Mahie]

It doesn't speed up shield grab? Does it add any lag to the other one's attack maybe?

 

[Strong Badam]

you can't dash >.>
there is still a shield drop animation, you can just interupt it with a/b moves

i'm pretty sure i tested this ish before.

you're wrong. powershielding a regular attack goes directly from shieldstun -> wait1 (standing subaction), with no shield drop animation.

Mahie: no.

 

[Pi]

can i see a gif of someone powershielding a melee attack then dashing out of it please, or a video, or something.

i've never seen that happen, and i swear i've tested this in dolphin debug menu before

 

[Strong Badam]

uhhh sometime when it's not 3 AM I'll see what I can do.