Pound Prizes

[GimR]

The thing is, I feel bad for Plank. The reputation that he built up for the last 5 years has been destroyed because of just one mistake(a pretty big one though). Most of the people defending plank are quite mean and I feel like they are making him look worst for just the way in which they are defending him.

 

[MASAHIROx]

agreed^

plank needs to pay. "I'm sorry" is not enough

simply put.

take responsibility for your actions.
TAKE ACTION

a lengthy post on smashboards is not gonna cut it.

 

[Albert.]

GIMR I loved your recent post directed @ laijin

that **** was ****

 

[rhan]

My issue with him is that he said straight up that nobody was getting their money and still has not said something along the lines of: "I'll give what's due all in time".

It's grimy. He screwed everyone in the process of this event.

 

[Laijin]

snip

Fair enough. Its the topic of the subject I suppose. My point was we should try and talk about what we should do in the future to avoid this rather than repeat over and over the same stuff thats been said over the course of the thread.



Edit: Never mind.

 

[stingers]

find me one person that respects manacloud and I'll pay the winners myself

 

[Zone]

Yah sorry is not enough, but asking him to pay like 8k or whatever it is, is probably too harsh. Reminds me of the story of a kid who drove home a little too tipsy, he got in an accident and the people he crashed into was his parents and he killed them. I think the guilt of killing your own parents is enough punishment I would think the guy probably wants to kill himself. But then add on the DUI, money owed for damages, and manslaughter. All that is just overboard punishment. But this is my opinion. Wish there was some middle ground

 

[Laijin]

find me one person that respects manacloud and I'll pay the winners myself

Hence why I said Ken and Manacloud. But I edited my post since its not important.

 

[stingers]

well from what I remember from back then it was mostly manaclouds doing wasnt it?

 

[Laijin]

well from what I remember from back then it was mostly manaclouds doing wasnt it?

Not how I remembered it. Ken was part of it too.

 

[GimR]

Fair enough. Its the topic of the subject I suppose. My point was we should try and talk about what we should do in the future to avoid this rather than repeat over and over the same stuff thats been said over the course of the thread.



Edit: Never mind.

This is true. But this thread isn't the thread for that. If you have some good ideas you should make a new thread discussing how we can stop this from ever happening again because if you post it in here it will just get lost for ever.

Yah sorry is not enough, but asking him to pay like 8k or whatever it is, is probably too harsh. Reminds me of the story of a kid who drove home a little too tipsy, he got in an accident and the people he crashed into was his parents and he killed them. I think the guilt of killing your own parents is enough punishment I would think the guy probably wants to kill himself. But then add on the DUI, money owed for damages, and manslaughter. All that is just overboard punishment. But this is my opinion. Wish there was some middle ground

I don't think the discussion right now is, "should we expect Plank to pay the money?" I think the discussion is, "Was plank obligated(morally) to pay it in the first place?"

 

[Eddie G]

find me one person that respects manacloud and I'll pay the winners myself

I absolutely love Manacloud. Pay up.

 

[stingers]

god kingbeef...you're such a mature and respectable member of this community.
like god damn.

 

[GOD!]

thats really besides the point. The results of our actions may not have been forseen, but that doesn't change the fact that people are holding plank to ridiculous moral standards and saying "should have done the right thing and payed winners and take the hit and gone 10k in debt for the communities sake"

When "the community" has its own immorality to blame for this anyway by disobeying the wishes of the TO and the law. Plank took money from the winners, the community took money from the hotel. and so a death spiral ensued.

Im not saying "two wrongs make a right" but the irony and hypocrisy is delicious.

do u have any idea how ***kiing ******** u r

i mean the ****ty reasoning and idiocy in that post is just

oh my ***cing god

just read the second paragraph over and over if u want to slowly become dumber

 

[Laijin]

do u have any idea how ***ing ******** u r

i mean the ****ty reasoning and idiocy in that post is just

oh my ***ing god

just read the second paragraph over and over if u want to slowly become dumber

lol dude I don't think flaming and personal attacks is really making this discussion any better.
calm down.
and then explain why you think his post is dumb.
thats how discussions work bro

 

[Tommy_G]

Edit@ TommyG: You still haven't answered my question. Also, you've personally attacked me instead of proving my argument wrong. :/

MLG

Entry fees and prize money are two independent figures.

The personal attacks don't feel too good, do they?

 

[Zone]

I don't think the discussion right now is, "should we expect Plank to pay the money?" I think the discussion is, "Was plank obligated(morally) to pay it in the first place?"

Right, I just wanted to put a different perspective on punishment to what that other guy mentioned. My bad for veering off track.

 

[Tommy_G]

oh my ***cing god

You misspelled ***king


Morals are subjective so this argument is subjective and will only end in flaming and trolling. Plank isn't legally obligated to pay so the only thing people will do is ***** and whine until they find something else to complain about.

Close plz.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

can we just agree that plank apologists are worse than hitler and call it a day?

No.

 

[GimR]

MLG

Entry fees and prize money are two independent figures.

Okay you're correct, I should've specified better.

Show me one smash tournament that didn't have guaranteed prize money where the entry fee didn't got to the pot and the community was fine with it.



Also, it seem you think people don't have a right to be upset/complain about what happened. Could please explain why?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

do u have any idea how ***kiing ******** u r

i mean the ****ty reasoning and idiocy in that post is just

oh my ***cing god

just read the second paragraph over and over if u want to slowly become dumber

more dumb*

at least address his idiocy.

thats really besides the point. The results of our actions may not have been forseen, but that doesn't change the fact that people are holding plank to ridiculous moral standards and saying "should have done the right thing and payed winners and take the hit and gone 10k in debt for the communities sake"

When "the community" has its own immorality to blame for this anyway by disobeying the wishes of the TO and the law. Plank took money from the winners, the community took money from the hotel. and so a death spiral ensued.

Im not saying "two wrongs make a right" but the irony and hypocrisy is delicious.

i don't agree with what GOD has said to/about you, but i do agree that planks still wrong here.

basically, instead of taking the 10k hit himself, he made others suffer by spreading the 10k Debt out to multiple people, thus softening the concept that Plank just used 10k of winnings to make up HIS OWN MISTAKE.

The community isn't responsible for the contracts, or deals the TO's make with the hotel. It's not even the responsibility of the community to STAY AT THAT HOTEL. Besides people stacking up in rooms, people could have decided to stay down the street AT A CHEAPER HOTEL[this place was pricey], which also screws up Plank's contract. He clearly didn't think this through enough.

There is no irony and hypocrisy. Plank's requests weren't of a normal TO's requests. At a smash tournament, you stay where you please, and you pay for the event. The entire community could've chosen to be housed instead, and this would've put plank in an even worse money situation, alot worse. It's not fair to force the community to stay at the expensive hotel just to fill plank's CONTRACTUAL needs, needs which weren't even required for this event.

but that doesn't change the fact that people are holding plank to ridiculous moral standards and saying "should have done the right thing and payed winners and take the hit and gone 10k in debt for the communities sake"

People keep saying this, I can't help but disagree. It doesn't matter what 'moral standards' your held too when you are dealing with something that was 100% your own fault. Now if he was thrown in a situation where he's dealing with something that wasn't his fault, that's different. But everything that lead to this was because of Plank's prior planning. Him stealing $10,000 to cover his own *** is definitely not that high of a moral standard to set.

 

[Tommy_G]

Okay you're correct, I should've specified better.

Show me one smash tournament that didn't have guaranteed prize money where the entry fee didn't got to the pot and the community was fine with it.

All of them.

Including Pound.

Pound was to be paid out in percentages of profit. There was no profit so there are no payouts.

 

[stingers]

tommy g, that is not how tournaments work. they are not paid out in percentages of profit, or the additional venue fee left over after paying the venue fee would be put in with the pot. instead, the TO (usually) keeps the additional venue fee as personal profit and leaves the pot alone, completely separate.

plank did not do that.

this is not arguable.

 

[Kinzer]

As someone who doesn't attend tournaments but has had aspirations to do so one day, I am feeling less eager to ever attend a tournament after seeing the true nature of once respected players come to light.

Also, apparently smashers spell "paid" as "payed."

I feared something like this would happen.

Sir, if you're still here reading this, please reconsider.

These scandals only happen like once every so often; and generally it's only with big national tournaments which draw a big (or certain kind of) crowd. Smaller, local/regional grassroots tournaments are more like the family environment you might have originally expected where the players look out for one another in the way of helping one another improve, giving rides, paying for others' entry fees, et cetera. A lot are well-behaved might I add. The tournaments themselves are run efficiently and follow the procedure down to the finest bullet advertised, and the competitors themselves make sure that the rules are followed by others and that if the TO incurs any problems those who are passionate see to it that the TO gets help and that the event can go on. Everything's peachy keen.

Though I'm not sure if me specifically addressing you is helping any bit. There is a possibility I look like I'm trying to get you in just to mislead you...

... If it makes you feel any better, it's just as I said. The small tournaments don't even get enough of a turn-out where the controversy would be worth it. A lot of people are well-acquainted with one-another so they know how they act at certain times (read, from the time prior to the tourney where everybody plays friendlies/chitchats with some fellow smashers they only see once per week/month/however it is, up until the tournament comes to a finish and everybody cleans out the tables of the friendlies and perhaps the venue of any trash/litter.). All this further reduces the chances of these disputes even occurring in the first place.

... And if you actually do live in Las Vegas, I'd really love for you to at least come to one and see what I'm talking about. For Melee or Brawl; whichever game suits your fancy, both of the communities would welcome you with open arms, you have my word on that.

Also, apparently smashers spell "paid" as "payed."

Haha, yeah right!

Oh my god...

I laughed my *** off at that post back then, and I'm doing it again now lol. Goooood memories OC3.

If anything, the tournaments that bomb the hardest with the community always seem to get the best humor out of it later on, one way or another.

If anyone's ever feeling bored, go dig up the CotT4 (?) thread, and the thread comments that ensued once everyone started getting kicked out of the venue:

"Oh damn, ****'s really going down now. The LAPD has just arrived, which is crazy because they're like in Philly or something. They're starting to beat everybody with batons you guys should get out while you can."

"Okay, the venue is getting shut down by the police right now. They were in the middle of semi-finals, but Random Ike Guy just punched Chibo in the face and ran off with all the winnings. Chu Dat also just bit somebody in the leg, it's getting crazy in there."

Saving this one for myself. That killed some time for me reading all of those feeds the first time.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

All of them.

Including Pound.

Pound was to be paid out in percentages of profit. There was no profit so there are no payouts.

where does it say this 'percentages of profit' post?

 

[Zone]

MLG

Entry fees and prize money are two independent figures.

The personal attacks don't feel too good, do they?

Once again... Yes that's true with sponsored events. In our melée non-sponsored events we charge two fees, one for the prizes( obviously because we aren't sponsored) one for the venue/TO.

And the prizes come from entry fee. We simply changes the meaning of entry fee that you keep portraying and call it a venue fee now. Cuz we aren't sponsored we are required to take such a step. Unless venue fee and entry are comprised of one payment then usually a percentage goes to prizes and a percentage goes to venue.

 

[Laijin]

Just pointing this out. But Plank did mention that the prize money was taken out of his account along with the hotel bill before he even had the chance to make a decision to pay the winners.
In other words he didn't have the money to begin with. I think they took the money before the tournament? Not sure. Maybe it was afterwards. idk. Anyways. Point is..So even if he wanted to pay them right after the tournament, he wouldn't have been able to and I doubt he'd be able to get a loan for something like that.
So in my opinion we should be talking about if/how he would go about in paying the winners over time or discuss..something else. lol.

 

[GimR]

All of them.

Including Pound.

Pound was to be paid out in percentages of profit. There was no profit so there are no payouts.

see, this is a statement I can easily disprove since I was the treasurer for Apex 2010 and I wrote every single check that to every single person who made money. Guess what, 100% of the entry fee went to the winners.

 

[Tommy_G]

where does it say this 'percentages of profit' post?

It's the only assumed possibility of payouts.

If you want to look to posts: there are no posts saying anything will be paid out.

edit: GIMR

OK cool story.

That's for that tournament and that was your choice. It still doesn't prove entry fee=pot payout.

 

[stingers]

seeing as how tommy g did not respond to my post, it can henceforth be assumed that I have won the argument and he has conceded defeat. from now on any posts made by the user "Tommy_G" are officially able to be ignored, as declared by the winner of the argument. thank you for your time.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

no it's not, people have been saying to you over and over and over and over,

the assumed possibility of payouts is the entry fee.

and yes there 'WAS' which was later edited out.

 

[Tommy_G]

seeing as how tommy g did not respond to my post, it can henceforth be assumed that I have won the argument and he has conceded defeat. from now on any posts made by the user "Tommy_G" are officially able to be ignored, as declared by the winner of the argument. thank you for your time.

There wasn't anything I thought was worth the time to respond to.

 

[stingers]

i would just like to say, that trahhSTEEZY made an excellent post that I feel everyone should read.

 

[Tommy_G]

no it's not, people have been saying to you over and over and over and over,

the assumed possibility of payouts is the entry fee.

and yes there 'WAS' which was later edited out.

Assumed.

That's where you all messed up.

You can't sign a contract, not read the fine print, assume everything is ok, then ***** about it when you get ripped off.

stingers: You didn't consider this situation, where venue expenses > venue+entry fee. That's why I didn't think your post had any merit to it.

 

[Euclid]

It's funny that people think their internet opinions on the topic matter. They don't. This thread has been done for a long time. Folks are saying the same **** over and over again. How about you stay mad but try to forget this because being angry on the internet isn't gonna change nothing.

Go !

 

[Tommy_G]

It's funny that people think their internet opinions on the topic matter. They don't. This thread has been done for a long time. Folks are saying the same **** over and over again. How about you stay mad but try to forget this because being angry on the internet isn't gonna change nothing.

Go !

This.......

 

[stingers]

i disagree euclid, being angry on the internet has changed many things over the past few years. for example the egyptian revolution stemmed from some people getting angry on the internet. if they can topple governments in africa, we should be able to get plank to give us 10,000 dollars

 

[GimR]

edit: GIMR

OK cool story.

That's for that tournament and that was your choice. It still doesn't prove entry fee=pot payout.

you see, my point is that a standard has been set for a long time. Every single smash tourney that wasn't sponsored paid people out with 100% of the entrance fee. At Pound 5 this did not happen. It broke the standard. For some reason out of no where you're saying that pound 5 is the standard and you are pretending that this is how a majority of non sponsored tournaments view the entrance fee. Which just isn't true.


So please, show me one non-sponsored tournament that didn't pay out the winners with 100% of the entrance fee.

Or a tournament that did take from the pot but didn't say it was going to in the OP

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

This.......

yet you're also still here..

you see, my point is that a standard has been set for a long time. Every single smash tourney that wasn't sponsored paid people out with 100% of the entrance fee. At Pound 5 this did not happen. It broke the standard. For some reason out of no where you're saying that pound 5 is the standard and you are pretending that this is how a majority of non sponsored tournaments view the entrance fee. Which just isn't true.


So please, show me one non-sponsored tournament that didn't pay out the winners with 100% of the entrance fee.

Or a tournament that did take from the pot but didn't say it was going to in the OP

this........

i see some strawmanning in the near future.

 

[Zone]

Assumed.

That's where you all messed up.

You can't sign a contract, not read the fine print, assume everything is ok, then ***** about it when you get ripped off.

stingers: You didn't consider this situation, where venue expenses > venue+entry fee. That's why I didn't think your post had any merit to it.

Edit: I hate posting on the I phone lol makes me look stupid with all the auto corrects.

Once again proper math NEEDS to be done before hand so venue fee is high enough to cover the costs to the TO and venue so the pot(entry fee) can be left alone. Most people til now have been responsible enough to cover this properly. Even plank in the past did this well, which is why payouts were made in the last because if proper charging of the venue fee. Don't charge only 5 bucks for a 1,000 dollar venue and hope to god 200 people enter. Raise it.