Pokemon Black and White (Spoiler Warning)

[choknater]

haha. i think we're all just taking it a little too quickly.

but

its just a great game :D

 

[Circa]

i was undefeated in the game until my first few runs through the elite four. after a few times i was used to them and their strategies though, and during my failed runs, my krookodile kept leveling. dark type + moxie = two dead elite four.

N was pretty easy mode. LOL his lead reshiram actually beat my lead zekrom, but i cleaned it up with krookodile for a free moxie boost. then swept his team.

ghetsis was a little harder, that hydreigon was pretty good, and i had to max revive emboar for another brick break to kill it.

and now

i'm still getting BLOWN UP by morimoto. can almost beat him though.

The Fighting E4 member was my only slight problem. He almost made me need a Revive during battle. Almost. Everyone else was easy mode. Up until Ghetsis. I agree about the Hydreigon. It outpaced my ENTIRE team (although my entire team is admittedly slow, outside of Simisear who was fainted anyway), and it was cracking skulls left and right. I would have needed to use a Revive against him if it weren't for a Focus Miss vs Scrafty.

I still haven't faced Morimoto.

I thought the part ground type crocodile was the right choice over the part fighting type gangster seeing as Emonga has Aerial Ace and that it could easily tear through a fighting type. Zebrastrike was easy as hell though. All he could do with Sandile out was his fire type move and Pursuit or and he went down quickly to Sand Tomb

Lolz I had mainly just forgotten that she had Emolgas. But I just decided to hit it anyway and see what happened, and next thing I knew everything was still dying. Scraggy is really bulky, so even with being hit by STAB Aerial Ace it could still keep trucking through. And all it took was a single Payback to kill. Her Zebstrika did almost kill him though (note: after taking on both Emolgas without healing). I was left with like 17 hp when I beat his face in with Payback.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Just got my Scrafty. God he is my favorite of this Gen. reminds me of myself :D

 

[Fuelbi]

Blegh, my Zuruggu still has 8 more levels till it evolves into Zuruzukin :/

 

[Rubyiris]

It's not really arbitrary. Legendaries are usually more powerful than other Pokémon, they usually start at a pretty decent level and require little to no training to sweep through opponents, and it takes away the homegrown, trained-by-yourself sort of feel of a team if you slap five legends in there, in my opinion.

Plus, I enjoy having evolutions to strive for, and legendaries don't evolve.

The last time I used a legendary at all, really, was back in Red, and that's because I was young enough at the time that I didn't know or care enough to do otherwise. Now I don't even like to use them at all, they tend to just rot in my box as trophies.

Well, no, I take that back. I used Shaymin for a solo run in Pearl. But I don't use them on teams.

Besides, as per the message of these very games...why does it matter if other people are/aren't using legendaries on their team? Let them use what they want to use and you can use what you want to.

Legendaries aren't necessarily good. There are a plethora of legendary, and pseudo-legendary pokemon that are ****ing awful.

Victini for example is incredibly lackluster both in-game, and competitively, whereas in-game, pokemon like Stoutland, and Liligant are effectively over-powered in-game based on how early you get them and how much stronger they are statistically than the rest of the game up until post-E4.

 

[Fuelbi]

The legendaries still don't have homegrown, trained-by-yourself feel that Firus was talking about. If I ever get a legendary, 99% of the time I'll feel disconnected to it in comparison to the rest of my team, who I slaved hard for to raise their level to that height and getting them to their final evos, as compared to getting something, like lets say, an Arceus who is already at level 50-60 (sorry, never caught it in DP) so it's like I never worked for it.

And Victini still has higher than average stats. You might as well say that Celebi, Jirachi, and Manaphy/Shaymin are also lackluster in game since they have the same 100 base stats (I forget if its Manaphy or Shaymin is the one who has the 100 stats)

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Legendaries aren't necessarily good. There are a plethora of legendary, and pseudo-legendary pokemon that are ****ing awful.

Victini for example is incredibly lackluster both in-game, and competitively, whereas in-game, pokemon like Stoutland, and Liligant are effectively over-powered in-game based on how early you get them and how much stronger they are statistically than the rest of the game up until post-E4.

The big thing is this: You get a lv12 Scraggy. You leveled it up, took care of it all your journey. You catch Zekrom. Meh, it's a legend that you found in the story, AND it really was thrown in your journey last minute with lots of power[or not]

I've been using Zoroark since lv10Zorua over the lv25 event one because of this.

 

[Rubyiris]

The legendaries still don't have homegrown, trained-by-yourself feel that Firus was talking about. If I ever get a legendary, 99% of the time I'll feel disconnected to it in comparison to the rest of my team, who I slaved hard for to raise their level to that height and getting them to their final evos, as compared to getting something, like lets say, an Arceus who is already at level 50-60 (sorry, never caught it in DP) so it's like I never worked for it.

And Victini still has higher than average stats. You might as well say that Celebi, Jirachi, and Manaphy/Shaymin are also lackluster in game since they have the same 100 base stats (I forget if its Manaphy or Shaymin is the one who has the 100 stats)

I don't share your sentiments. I've always just went with whatever pokemon is statistically the best, whilst keeping my types balanced. I don't care if I've had a pokemon since route 1, as soon as I pass a better pokemon, I'm boxing the old, inferior pokemon.

@Ryu:

I LIKE the dragons, and they're amazing statistically. It's not "meh it's a legendary." for me. I have no attachment to the pokemon I train since frankly, I hate training as it is. I never EV train, I never SR for a good nature or IVs, and I have never, ever breeded for a certain moveset. I find it all to be a waste of time when I could just rush through the game with the best team possible, then download PO and start off with a statistically perfect team of pokemon.

Also finally; Most of the legendary pokemon I find much more aesthetically pleasing than most of the COMmons.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

That can actually harm you. When you catch a Pokemon that has no EVs and a bad nature, it could be worse even though it appears better.

Example: You get a Quirky crappy IV Zekrom with no EVs

You replace your Adamant Likes to Thrash about fairly good Ived (with EVs in it since you've had it for quite some time) Venepede. That could actually hurt you :3

Edit: That's also why I learned to create my own, lolz.

Edit2: I was actually implying you do none of the Sring, etc. You could very easily get a good Adamant Pokemon with a self-generated 31 in attack. All the EVs you get from going through the game add up, too. I wasn't assuming you bred or used Pokegen or did whatever.

 

[Rubyiris]

That can actually harm you. When you catch a Pokemon that has no EVs and a bad nature, it could be worse even though it appears better.

Example: You get a Quirky crappy IV Zekrom with no EVs

You replace your Adamant Likes to Thrash about fairly good Ived (with EVs in it since you've had it for quite some time) Venepede. That could actually hurt you :3

Edit: That's also why I learned to create my own, lolz.

I KNOW it's bad but I don't give a ****. Pokemon is one of the easiest damn games ever created. IVs and EVs and nature make little to no difference in-game and I'm far too lazy to try.

 

[Pluvia]

Adamant Haxorus feels so broken during story mode. I just DD and sweep everything.

 

[Rubyiris]

that's because the game is piss easy and Haxorus is statistically stronger than everything you face until post E4.

You could have a modest Haxorus and still sweep everything LOL.

I would know, since my Haxorus IS modest LMAO.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I KNOW it's bad but I don't give a ****. Pokemon is one of the easiest damn games ever created. IVs and EVs and nature make little to no difference in-game and I'm far too lazy to try.

That's cool, I'm just saying it contradicts what you mean by throwing away the inferior ones and what not. That's all I meant, lol.

Adamant Haxorus feels so broken during story mode. I just DD and sweep everything.

Yeah, I'm noticing this as well. Doesn't help I got 252Att/252Speed EVs with 31/31/25/X/25/31

 

[Rubyiris]

That's cool, I'm just saying it contradicts what you mean by throwing away the inferior ones and what not. That's all I meant, lol.



Yeah, I'm noticing this as well. Doesn't help I got 252Att/252Speed EVs with 31/31/25/X/25/31

Since I don't ev train, SR, breed, or even attempt to look for a good nature, no it really doesn't contradict itself.

 

[choknater]

how the hellz do you figure out iv's hahah

 

[Firus]

Legendaries aren't necessarily good. There are a plethora of legendary, and pseudo-legendary pokemon that are ****ing awful.

Victini for example is incredibly lackluster both in-game, and competitively, whereas in-game, pokemon like Stoutland, and Liligant are effectively over-powered in-game based on how early you get them and how much stronger they are statistically than the rest of the game up until post-E4.

That's why I threw in the "usually". I know there are a number of legendaries that aren't very good.

The legendaries still don't have homegrown, trained-by-yourself feel that Firus was talking about. If I ever get a legendary, 99% of the time I'll feel disconnected to it in comparison to the rest of my team, who I slaved hard for to raise their level to that height and getting them to their final evos, as compared to getting something, like lets say, an Arceus who is already at level 50-60 (sorry, never caught it in DP) so it's like I never worked for it.

This exactly. I always feel disconnected to legendaries on my team; I never grow any sort of attachment (as much as you can grow attached to pixels on a screen, of course) to them, they just become powerhouses that are slapped on.

And Victini still has higher than average stats. You might as well say that Celebi, Jirachi, and Manaphy/Shaymin are also lackluster in game since they have the same 100 base stats (I forget if its Manaphy or Shaymin is the one who has the 100 stats)

This as well. Shaymin isn't one of the better legends but I still never faced too much trouble on my solo run with it in Pearl, despite the fact that its movepool doesn't have great type coverage (in D/P, it could only learn normal, grass, and psychic moves).

I find it all to be a waste of time when I could just rush through the game with the best team possible, then download PO and start off with a statistically perfect team of pokemon.

I'm confused...why are you even playing the games if your goal is to just rush through them and go on PO when you're done? Why not just go on PO from the start?

 

[Rubyiris]

That's why I threw in the "usually". I know there are a number of legendaries that aren't very good.



This exactly. I always feel disconnected to legendaries on my team; I never grow any sort of attachment (as much as you can grow attached to pixels on a screen, of course) to them, they just become powerhouses that are slapped on.



This as well. Shaymin isn't one of the better legends but I still never faced too much trouble on my solo run with it in Pearl, despite the fact that its movepool doesn't have great type coverage (in D/P, it could only learn normal, grass, and psychic moves).



I'm confused...why are you even playing the games if your goal is to just rush through them and go on PO when you're done? Why not just go on PO from the start?

Because I still enjoy the game itself. I'm still going to rush for 100% completion before going back to competitive battling.

Also I don't understand your attachment to pokemon. I'd rather take a good pokemon than some ****ty piece of crap you caught and trained on route 1 like a noob.

 

[Fuelbi]

This exactly. I always feel disconnected to legendaries on my team; I never grow any sort of attachment (as much as you can grow attached to pixels on a screen, of course) to them, they just become powerhouses that are slapped on.

Pretty much.

The ONLY legendary I've ever actually felt an attachment to besides Kyogre from Sapphire (back then when I was little and I didn't give enough of a **** to actually care if he was a legendary who I picked off late in game or not) is my Celebi that my cousin traded me from his Emerald to my SoulSilver. I swear, even though the others on my team were lvl 100, I STILL used Celebi for everything. That thing was literally my trophy pokemon from my game that I wouldn't trade anything for :/

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Actually Ruby, it is possible to catch a decently ived pokemon with an ok nature, and get a crappy legend. What I said was very possible <_<. If it didn't happen to you, it didn't. All I'm saying is it could. I caught a Jolly Drilbur with a 31 in Attack, lol.


Anyways Chok, google metalkid, it's very easy...but if you have EVs on your pokemon you don't know, then ehhhhhh

 

[Rubyiris]

i'd still use the crappy legend since its a better pokemon.

 

[M.K]

Because I still enjoy the game itself. I'm still going to rush for 100% completion before going back to competitive battling.

Also I don't understand your attachment to pokemon. I'd rather take a good pokemon than some ****ty piece of crap you caught and trained on route 1 like a noob.

"Like a noob"? Immaturity detracts from your argument.
Yes you can take a legendary Pokemon and sweep the entire game; what Firus is saying, and what I feel as well, is that there is more of a sense of accomplishment with a Pokemon that you've trained from a lower level. For instance, I caught my now-Gigalith as a Roggenrola at Level 4. It's not Level 45 and a powerhouse on my team. I would, in no way, box him for a Legendary who I caught with my 16th Ultra Ball at 1 HP Frozen.

There is nothing "****ty" about my "piece of crap" Pokemon, because it's none of the above.

Oh and generally, the people that catch/use Legendaries are the noobs, not the people who put in work to train a Pokemon from ground level.

But then again, I'm sure you're the type of trainer that I see on PBR with 6 legendaries, who I proceed to sweep with an Electrode and a Floatzel.

 

[Rubyiris]

"Like a noob"? Immaturity detracts from your argument.
Yes you can take a legendary Pokemon and sweep the entire game; what Firus is saying, and what I feel as well, is that there is more of a sense of accomplishment with a Pokemon that you've trained from a lower level. For instance, I caught my now-Gigalith as a Roggenrola at Level 4. It's not Level 45 and a powerhouse on my team. I would, in no way, box him for a Legendary who I caught with my 16th Ultra Ball at 1 HP Frozen.

There is nothing "****ty" about my "piece of crap" Pokemon, because it's none of the above.

Oh and generally, the people that catch/use Legendaries are the noobs, not the people who put in work to train a Pokemon from ground level.

But then again, I'm sure you're the type of trainer that I see on PBR with 6 legendaries, who I proceed to sweep with an Electrode and a Floatzel.

Pokemon is among the easiest games ever released. There is no sense of accomplishment in this game for me.

Also, again legendaries aren't necessarily good.

Also I don't play ubers on PO. I've always been an OU/UU player since gen 2 GS bot and on, good job making an incorrect assumption on the kind of person I am.

 

[Fuelbi]

I caught my now-Gigalith as a Roggenrola at Level 4. It's not Level 45 and a powerhouse on my team. I would, in no way, box him for a Legendary who I caught with my 16th Ultra Ball at 1 HP Frozen.

Pretty much

I caught my Timburr at level 10(?) and now it's the level 33 Gurdurr powerhouse on my team that it is, and if someone trade with me, right now it would be a Roobushin. There is no way I'd ever trade Timburr out for something like Victini, or hell, Reshiram because a) it's EV'd unlike those two and b) all the work I put into it would've been for nothing

I caught my Woobat at level 15, and now it's a level 34 Swoobat helping me pass the flying gym. I swear the pain in the *** that it was to evolve Woobat makes me never want to give it up, no matter how mediocrely powerful its stats are.

 

[choknater]

i just use my favorites

lilligant and chandelure all dai

starting to really like krookodile too


mmmm


someone teach me how to figure out iv's haha

 

[SuperBowser]

Personally I would find the game kind of boring if I used a bunch of legendaries and 1 hit KO'd everything. There'd be no challenge. But I never picked up super effective pokemons around each gym either so maybe I'm weird.

I just play the cute ones. <3

Current team = level 40 audino, munna, serperior, cottonee, duosis, archeops.

 

[choknater]

ewwww you like audino? :D

 

[Pluvia]

I don't think it's possible to get 100% completion legitly until Genesect, the last event Pokemon, is released.

 

[SuperBowser]

Audino's awesome :D (I also loved jigglypuff and clefairy in the original...)

I'll probably have to get rid of her when I play online but I'll try her a few times. She's been the most consistent in my team. No matter how bad fights go, she's always pulled through for me. I've only 'died' once so far and I owe a lot of that to audino. She has decent damage output and can surprisingly tank through near every pokemon you meet in the game. And she can surf!

 

[Firus]

Pokemon is among the easiest games ever released. There is no sense of accomplishment in this game for me.

You talk about how easy the games are, how you get no sense of accomplishment from the game, how you dump any Pokémon that you can replace with a stronger one, and how you rush through the game so you can go on PO.

I'm still not entirely sure why you do enjoy the games with all of that being the case, but if that's how you enjoy the game, so be it.

However, you should try and understand that at least in a piece of that, you're in the minority of Pokémon players. The games themselves are constantly spouting all of the "Pokémon are your friends" speeches, and while I know I tend to find that sappy and don't hold true to it fully, I do enjoy having a solid team of Pokémon with which I go through the game, and I do enjoy having Pokémon that I like.

No one's asking you to change your opinion, but please respect others' opinions, whether or not you understand why they feel that way.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Pokemon is hard as ****. Battle tower can be so ****ing annoying. Seriously, if you play it to complete the trainer card AND/OR get competitive, it's hard.

Just saying.

Edit: I like B/W's trainer card achievements too. =]

 

[Zook]

I'm in that group of people that gets attached to their Pokemon. My Serperior is probably the worst Pokemon on my team (that move pool is absolute Garbador), but I can't bring myself to box him. I always go through the Elite for with my starter, and always try to get them to land the finishing hit on the Champion's last Pokemon.

Pokemon is hard as ****. Battle tower can be so ****ing annoying. Seriously, if you play it to complete the trainer card AND/OR get competitive, it's hard.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the 'story mode' of Pokemon. You have to admit, it is pretty easy.

 

[Fuelbi]

Btw, the game IS supposed to be meant for little kids, so of course the story mode is easy

 

[M3D]

I actually think this is the most difficult "normal" version they've released in a while, especially post E4 when the trainer pokemon shoot up like 20 levels and you need to use type combinations if you haven't already overleveled your 'mons. Usually the first two are easier and then the third one ramps up the difficulty a bit. But there are quite a few tough fights in this game, especially post-E4. For instance, fighting Cynthia or Morimoto can be really difficult.

I agree with the sense of achievement thing. I generally box my legendaries as trophies, rather than roll with them for the rest of the game. I hate boxing pokes that I've trained up, which has actually made this game a lot harder for me because the way they designing things, it encourages you to pick up new pogeys along the way and replace members of your team periodically. I finally caved in and boxed my Stoutland when I got Axew, but it wasn't easy to leave behind the doggie I'd been training up all along.

For the record Rubyiris, I'm not a n00b at all. I was top 50 on Smogon's OU ladder at one point and I've been highly competitive in a number of other games. Some people just approach the game in different ways and enjoy the sense of accomplishment they get from "raising" a pokemon up over time and making it into the monster that wins the epic battles. Over the course of the game, you make choices on what moves to learn, what fights to use the pogey in and what items to give it and players like to feel like their choices have value and meaning. You might not feel that way, but many players do and that's why they'd rather tackle the E4 with weaker pogeys that they have a sense of attachment to, rather than a random legendary that they haven't really made any choices about.

If they take an improperly trained and weak pogey into a competitive battle and then complain about your unfair advantage or something, then you can call them n00bs. But however they get the most enjoyment out of the RPG is the best way for them to play. Different people have fun in different ways. There's nothing wrong with that, so there's no need to be rude about it.

 

[choknater]

my sun team is not cuttin it without team preview. tryna make a new dwou team that would work better for PO server, non sun this time.

i have this idea that espeon kinda ***** without team preview. its sooo important to scout that thing because magic mirror turns the tide so fast against status/hazard pokemon.

 

[Fuelbi]

Well, beat the 7th gym. Scraggy, Gurdurr, and Litwick were all useful as hell here and my Dewott even evolved ^^

My team:

Litwick lvl 35 (CHANDEGAY)
Gurdurr lvl 35 (LORAX)
Krokorok lvl 35 (DEALWITHIT)
Swoobat lvl 35 (FRUITY)
Samurott lvl 36 (WOTTER)
Scraggy lvl 35 (SCRAPPER)

Damn, I want my Zuruzukin so badly already. And evolving Litwick into Chandera would be nice already too >_>

 

[Rubyiris]

my sun team is not cuttin it without team preview. tryna make a new dwou team that would work better for PO server, non sun this time.

i have this idea that espeon kinda ***** without team preview. its sooo important to scout that thing because magic mirror turns the tide so fast against status/hazard pokemon.

Team preview ruins competitive pokemon for me. I'm glad DW in PO doesn't use it. The act of gathering information and making choices based off that has always been the single most entertaining aspect of every game, as well as having the element of surprise, and the thrill from losing to an effective gimmick.

The aspect of leads effectively dying out, as well as scouting really ruins it for me, and is further reason why I'll never play the DS version competitively when I can just play PO DW.

@Firus:

Honestly I'm not sure why I enjoy Pokemon, but I do. It's been pretty much my favorite thing in the world since I was 9, and I'm currently 21 now. I don't think it's necessary to have the capability to express something you love with words all the time. Pokemon's just something I really enjoy with every fiber of my being.

 

[choknater]

well, i think having team preview gives so called weaker pokemon (like my cute lilligant) a better chance. it makes the beginning of the game a lot more strategic cuz u no long have to scout to enable prediction

anyway, its up to you how u want to play, there are many ways. theres singles, doubles, triples, rotation. team preview or no preview. uber, ou, uu.

my favorite is dw ou with team preview but im currently building a dw ou team that can fight without it. espeon is not as broken as i thought, or maybe im just not switching into deo-s enough

im very interested in what competitive 6v6 rotation would look like, haha. sooo much strategy.

 

[Rubyiris]

espeon is pretty amazing when you stop playing ****ty people.

 

[Wave⁂]

Espeon is only amazing when you play ****ty people

 

[choknater]

its difficult for me to know whether my opponent is ****ty or not since its so random, so i generally consider my opponents to all be equal unless they are ranked very high. even then, sometimes my team counters very high ranked people. for example im smogon i have never lost to [imp]can'ttouchthis, but i lose to dragon ace almost always.