Pogeymafia: Red and Green - OVER! Who lived happily ever after in Kanto?

[Ronike]

Chaco, please unvote Xonar. He's already at L-not very much.

McFox, what about doc or cop roles? But more importantly, I wanted to get it out there in case I get killed or recruited. Think about it for a second. Me getting killed or recruited= getting visited. Them not being able to vote = insta scum.

 

[Ronike]

Hey Kev, wanna read and give opinions on things? Cause I'd love to have opinions from people smarter than Kirby.

 

[Chaco]

Yeah, I'm definitely going right back to Xonar once I get a votecount. That was a slip, believe me I've done something like it before to that nature and he's reacting exactly like I did at the time. He's trying to cast doubt onto it, and dually cast suspicion on the slips aggressors. I do agree he is speaking like he had inside information as well as talking out of context. I'd say it's a blatant tell. You don't talk out of context if you are town, and if you are scum you try to talk in town context. That was nothing but a slip plain and simple. Sh shades of grey here at all.

My vote will be returning shortly, or I will hammer him. If you disagree please post compelling reason not to and why he would speak out of context to his role if he were a Pokemon.

 

[Chaco]

Hey Kev, wanna read and give opinions on things? Cause I'd love to have opinions from people smarter than Kirby.

Can we just have a pleasant game and not start the **** slinging on D1?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yeah, I'm definitely going right back to Xonar once I get a votecount. That was a slip, believe me I've done something like it before to that nature and he's reacting exactly like I did at the time. He's trying to cast doubt onto it, and dually cast suspicion on the slips aggressors. I do agree he is speaking like he had inside information as well as talking out of context. I'd say it's a blatant tell. You don't talk out of context if you are town, and if you are scum you try to talk in town context. That was nothing but a slip plain and simple. Sh shades of grey here at all.

My vote will be returning shortly, or I will hammer him. If you disagree please post compelling reason not to and why he would speak out of context to his role if he were a Pokemon.

Ok, so Chibo role fishing and Ronike tunneling haven't registered to you at all?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I want to hear Omis' opinion on the matter as well. He is the only one who hasn't spoken on it (depending on how you count Kevin) but with Chaco's support, Ronike holds the hammer.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

EBWOP: If only barely.

 

[Chaco]

It has, but that's typical Chibo and very typical Ronike. Meta says otherwise, but D1 lynch is no doubt Xonar.

 

[SummonerAU]

Summoner, this is why you originally voted me. After reading everything since then (assuming that you HAVE read everything since then), you still find this scummy? Are you saying you want to be recruited? Please, explain why you want me lynched in more detail than "I'm still for it," when your original reason doesn't really hold any weight, considering that I was right, and wild Pokemon getting recruited would be bad for us. Like Ronike pointed out, not only do we LOSE one of us, but what we assume is an independent recruiting faction GAINS a number. That's doubly bad.

Thinking back on it, if a trainer has recruited 3 Pokemon and is then killed, that would actually be beneficial for us, since it's a safe assumption that his recruited Pokemon are on his side now, against us. Still, taking one of our number away and adding it to an enemy's side is not really good for any reason that I can think of.

Yes I have read everything since then. It depends on how you think the game is going to work. If you think it's going to be Mewtwo vs Wild with trainer independents then yes it would be bad. Mewtwo is a pokemon, can he be recruited by Red/Green? What happens if Mewtwo is randomly killed today and only Red and Green are left? How powerful do you tink Mewtwo is and do you think wild pokemon could take down Mewtwo as a group? How do you see the Mewtwo faction and what would you expect the win condition to be? If you think Mewtwo is the mafia faction, do you think his win condition would be based on total wild pokemon, or just total players left?

My thoughts: Yes, we would lose a pokemon from wild, but at least it's still alive. I also think going after a particular faction is silly. I think we should just scumhunt and get whatever we dig up. People who suggest one over the other are being looked at

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I disagree. What exactly was the slip? Requote the post. IIRC, it was him not talking in first person when looking at the game subjectively so as not to give away whether or not he has a PR. His explanation checks out with me. I have no abilities, so why couldn't Xonar be the same not wanting to verify it?

I'm fairly sure we'll find Red, Green, and Mewtwo on this wagon because it's pushing something really, REALLY, stupid.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

EBWOP: That was aimed at Chaco.

 

[Chaco]

I bet pokemon have PR's too, looking at the sample role PM

Clear enough for ya? If not, let's dissect this sentence.

-Notice how he uses the word bet? It's because he doesn't know if they do or not.
-He says pokemon out of context entirely! Upon reading the sentence do you get the feel he is a pokemon?
-Note looking for the next points purpose...
-...at the SAMPLE Role PM. Meaning he cannot look at his own and deduce this. Whether or not he did or did not have powers it could be deduced. Agree or disagree?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Pokemon is a faction in this game. If he had put wild in front of it, would it have been okay? If someone was saying in that L4S game I looked at that, "I bet survivors have PR's too." would it have been such a slip.

Put it into context with the Chibo quote he was referencing.

Point taken about the sample PM.

 

[Chaco]

Even then it seems out of context. And no it's the same principle, wild would not have effected the way it reads.

 

[SummonerAU]

Ryker, what do you mean with "point taken about sample PM"?

Do you mean "Yes, I think that all wild pokemon have abilities" or "Okay, I can see what you're getting at, but I think you're still wrong"?

Just makin' suuuuuure.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It reads to me that, keep in mind everyone has been discussing the different factions, he was using that the same way as we would normally use townies to challenge what he had seen in Chibo's message.

Xonar has been much more pro-town so far than a lot of other people *coughChibocough* and if he flips Red/Green/Mewtwo, I'll self-vote next phase.

Now then, I ask you this, you say that Xonar has done this before and acted in the same way before. What game was this? What phase was this? What was his alignement? How many factions were there?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Okay, I can see what you're getting at, but I think you're still wrong?

This. One of the possible solutions I put on the board contradicted that.

 

[Chaco]

No, I said I had done this before and acted similarly. I cannot provide the link at this time.

And why self-vote? If you know you are town, then that would only serve as a detriment to the town.

 

[Chaco]

Also, note Ryker, is this is a multi-faction game Scum can still scumhunt.

 

[CT Chia]

I'll self-vote next phase.

Self voting is incredibly anti town regardless of the situation.

 

[CT Chia]

EBWOP, obviously ninja'd by Chaco saying the same thing.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ok. Since when do your actions match Xonar's?

Exactly. I'm confident enough that it won't happen to make said statement.

 

[SummonerAU]

That statement is bogus. I am proof to the contrary. Stop making assumptions.

Ryker, is this you claiming a vanilla role?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yes.

10chars

 

[SummonerAU]

:|

Why haven't you just claimed completely?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

No reason to.

 

[Ronike]

Ryker, you should start posting arguments besides "LOL ARGMUNEMTS R DUMZ". Starting points: why do you think Xonar is pro-town. What the hell was up with your post #94 (your ignoring me asking before is duly noted)? Cause otherwise, YOU are tunneling Xonar-town besides many many MANY people agreeing he seems scummy. And why the desire to self-vote?

@Chaco: Fine, I'll tone down the **** slingin. Kirby, you better **** well be reading everything this time though.

 

[Chaco]

Thank you love muffin.

 

[Ronike]

Ryker man, anyone whos been around long enough has slipped up before... No one here is perfect.

@Chaco: Your welcome honey

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker, you should start posting arguments besides "LOL ARGMUNEMTS R DUMZ". Starting points: why do you think Xonar is pro-town. What the hell was up with your post #94 (your ignoring me asking before is duly noted)? Cause otherwise, YOU are tunneling Xonar-town besides many many MANY people agreeing he seems scummy. And why the desire to self-vote?

@Chaco: Fine, I'll tone down the **** slingin. Kirby, you better **** well be reading everything this time though.

I believe that's what I've been doing. Pointing out other possibilities than the one that you guys are so focused on.

Missed it before, I'll go look it up. Don't know what I did in #94.

No desire to. Confidence it won't be needed.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker man, anyone whos been around long enough has slipped up before... No one here is perfect.

Exactly why the phrasing of one sentence shouldn't be used to decide a lynch.

 

[McFox]

Chaco for the love of God don't hammer if he's at L1. Jesus Christ. There is discussion going on now which could be incredibly beneficial later, and the Day has barely started. There is NO reason to the end the day this early.

It depends on how you think the game is going to work. If you think it's going to be Mewtwo vs Wild with trainer independents then yes it would be bad. Mewtwo is a pokemon, can he be recruited by Red/Green?

Who cares? Mewtwo seems to be set up like a threat to the wild Pokemon (which he was in the first movie before the very end), so if he's recruited and we killed his trainer we take out two threats with one kill.

What happens if Mewtwo is randomly killed today and only Red and Green are left?

Then we got lucky, since what I am assuming is a killing faction will be gone.

How powerful do you tink Mewtwo is and do you think wild pokemon could take down Mewtwo as a group?

1) Don't really care, and 2) yes I do. It's called "lynching." It's a common mafia mechanic where a group of otherwise less-powerful people take down a single opponent.

How do you see the Mewtwo faction and what would you expect the win condition to be?

I assume survivor, probably SK, but again this is basically irrelevent. He's not on my team, therefor he needs to die regardless of the specifics of his role.

If you think Mewtwo is the mafia faction, do you think his win condition would be based on total wild pokemon, or just total players left?

I don't think he's the mafia faction. Unless Mewtwo ALREADY has multiple people on his side (doubtful, given the timeline presented in the original flavor post; this is set just after his escape from the laboratory, when he was alone), then there's no reason to think that Mewtwo is a THIRD recruiting faction. Three recruiting factions in one game? I don't buy it.

My thoughts: Yes, we would lose a pokemon from wild, but at least it's still alive.

And now it's OPPOSING us, instead of just dead. You really don't see how being recruited is worse than being killed?

I also think going after a particular faction is silly. I think we should just scumhunt and get whatever we dig up. People who suggest one over the other are being looked at

As someone (Chibo maybe?) pointed out, there no reason for any of the anti-towns to act any different toDay. Right now they are just three singular independents, there's no reason for them to act any differently, and thus no way we can hunt for any of the them over the others. However, do I think the trainers are a bigger threat to us than Mewtwo? Absolutely.

:|

Why haven't you just claimed completely?

It was necessary to show Ronike that he was wrong and needed to stop making assumptions which are provably false.

 

[KevinM]

Hey Kev, wanna read and give opinions on things? Cause I'd love to have opinions from people smarter than Kirby.

But I honestly have no idea what to dooooo.

I don't know what to look for at all.

Willing to just lynch Xonar, but not sure.

 

[Chaco]

I'm not going to this instant, but I see absolutely no compelling reason no to lynch him.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Probably not seeing as they could catch a Vig poke or they might even have a NKill.

But yeah, that's why I figured I could call Ronike and FF on what I thought was BS.

First part was explaining reasons that Red and Green wouldn't know each other's identities.

Second part was that since Red and Green don't know each other, I felt I could be more cavalier with my opinion of your case on someone else because they don't have scummates to buddy.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Kevin reeks, imo.

 

[Ronike]

Yes, my point was why are you being more cavalier and red and green not knowing each other mutually exclusive? Explain why you couldnt be more cavalier even if red and green knew each other/had a kill/ whatever you were trying to say.

@Kevin, ok thanks, but input would be nice still.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yes, my point was why are you being more cavalier and red and green not knowing each other mutually exclusive?

Rephrase that please.

Explain why you couldnt be more cavalier even if red and green knew each other/had a kill/ whatever you were trying to say.

Boondock Saints.

 

[SummonerAU]

I don't like your reasoning there. Nor do I think Mewtwo will just be a SK. I think Mewtwo will have more impact than a serial killer would. I don't really feel comfortable with saying more about how the game 'might' work. I just don't really like how the discussion is flowing towards 'let's target the trainers first' when getting either the trainers or Mewtwo would be a good thing.

 

[Ronike]

Need more explanation. Why couldnt you be more open if red and green knew each other? Thats what the first part was. Dont understand what you mean by boondock saints.