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Plairnkk's Guide to playing Sheik! Icies vid up 3/23/07
- Thread starter Plairnkk
- Start date
gkrackerr
Smash Ace
ohh thanks, i can see its uses already
itsneverfair
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2007
- Messages
- 26
sry if it's already somewhere but can you post up the percentages for which every char can be chain grabbed? and for fastfallers do you upthrow at low percentages?
Banks
Smash Hero
wow plank your in such high demand with this guide, autograph my ***.
boss8
Smash Hero
shiek is gay,pretty much n emergency route for anyone who use's her against other good opponents,but thats just my opinion,i would just use mario against shiek no big deal.
_milktea
Smash Lord
Yeah, that's a good way of thinking until you realize there's craploads of CGing in Sheik dittoes. That's how it went for me, so now I've just arrived at the conclusion that I'm doomed vs sheiks 
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
ness and link can get CGed til like... 90%. you can cg pikachu until like 90% and finish it off with a usmash. Not 100% on that since it's been a long long time since I played a Pika (and he wasn't even good), but meh.
BTW, I played a very good Kirby for about 3 hours last night, and while Sheik has a big advantage, 90% is likely overstating it.
At low %s, a grab is 45ish percent on him. The best way to get in a grab is wait for him to do an aerial, space well, needle him before he hits the ground when he's done / finishing his aerial, and grab. Hit once, dthrow. He'll DI away. Chain grab him. Hit once, dthrow. He'll likely DI in. Usmash. If he DIs away, chain grab again.
At low percentages Kirby is destroyed by grab --> cg ---> usmash or nair or fair. If they mess up the DI on the usmash when he's in the 20s, you can follow up with a uair.
Kirby won't die to a dthrow uair until about 90%, assuming they DI very well.
Edge guarding kirby is more difficult than you implied, because a Kirby capitalizes very well off an inexperienced Sheik's edge guarding. But once you have it down, it's ridiculously easy / broken. Kirby likes to come in for below, but low enough where jumping down from the ledge and bair won't usually work. Sometimes it's best to not necessarily wait until he's up bing to nair him, but the jump or two jumps before he has to up b.
You didn't mention it buy dair owns Kirby so badly. It goes through all his moves but utilt, uair, and a well-spaced bair. And when it hits, it's an easy uair, which is obviously the easiest way to kill Kirby.
Kirby's favorite approach are usually perfectly spaced fairs, whichi you really can't do anything about since it outprioritizes everything. Instead, try to space his attack off well so you can counterattack -- dsmash works really well and I find myself dsmashing a lot v Kirby because there's not much he can do about it. Sheik's CC owns Kirby quite hard. If Kirby is even slightly off in his bair or fair angles, dsmash hits him out of it.
Kirby is also horrendous at stopping needles, so I like to charge needles, throw them when he lands, which usually hit since his aerial manueverability is garbage, and then do it some more. 18% means a ton to Kirby, since you'll be killing him around 100 or earlier (stage dependant).
Usmash is also godly if you can get his tech right or something to that extent. That will kill him around 70%.
I know few people are going to play a good Kirby, but when I did I was confused, so I may as well add in my experience.
EDIT: I'd like a more in-depth Mario if you care enough. MArio's so much faster than Doc that I'm trying to play him like DOc and I'm off-balanced. If I played him more often I obviously could adjust, but just saying -- I think they're pretty different.
BTW, I played a very good Kirby for about 3 hours last night, and while Sheik has a big advantage, 90% is likely overstating it.
At low %s, a grab is 45ish percent on him. The best way to get in a grab is wait for him to do an aerial, space well, needle him before he hits the ground when he's done / finishing his aerial, and grab. Hit once, dthrow. He'll DI away. Chain grab him. Hit once, dthrow. He'll likely DI in. Usmash. If he DIs away, chain grab again.
At low percentages Kirby is destroyed by grab --> cg ---> usmash or nair or fair. If they mess up the DI on the usmash when he's in the 20s, you can follow up with a uair.
Kirby won't die to a dthrow uair until about 90%, assuming they DI very well.
Edge guarding kirby is more difficult than you implied, because a Kirby capitalizes very well off an inexperienced Sheik's edge guarding. But once you have it down, it's ridiculously easy / broken. Kirby likes to come in for below, but low enough where jumping down from the ledge and bair won't usually work. Sometimes it's best to not necessarily wait until he's up bing to nair him, but the jump or two jumps before he has to up b.
You didn't mention it buy dair owns Kirby so badly. It goes through all his moves but utilt, uair, and a well-spaced bair. And when it hits, it's an easy uair, which is obviously the easiest way to kill Kirby.
Kirby's favorite approach are usually perfectly spaced fairs, whichi you really can't do anything about since it outprioritizes everything. Instead, try to space his attack off well so you can counterattack -- dsmash works really well and I find myself dsmashing a lot v Kirby because there's not much he can do about it. Sheik's CC owns Kirby quite hard. If Kirby is even slightly off in his bair or fair angles, dsmash hits him out of it.
Kirby is also horrendous at stopping needles, so I like to charge needles, throw them when he lands, which usually hit since his aerial manueverability is garbage, and then do it some more. 18% means a ton to Kirby, since you'll be killing him around 100 or earlier (stage dependant).
Usmash is also godly if you can get his tech right or something to that extent. That will kill him around 70%.
I know few people are going to play a good Kirby, but when I did I was confused, so I may as well add in my experience.
EDIT: I'd like a more in-depth Mario if you care enough. MArio's so much faster than Doc that I'm trying to play him like DOc and I'm off-balanced. If I played him more often I obviously could adjust, but just saying -- I think they're pretty different.
Dragon_Hawk
Smash Lord
Kirby can double jump out of Sheik's d-throw at fairly low percents if they DI properly. Unless the Kirby is dumb and doesn't know that, it's better to just get an aerial out of a grab or u-smash if they really, really, really mess up the DI but I imagine that wouldn't happen all that often.
goateeguy
Smash Ace
kirbys go so high they make a down-throw practically useless besides the aerial youll get off of it
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
Iono, he's a better player than me and the best Kirby in so cal (though that isn't saying much), and he kept *****ing how he couldn't do anything =/
Dragon_Hawk
Smash Lord
Tell him to push up and away on the joystick after Sheik throws Kirby.
I kind of think Kirby's crouch should be respected in the Sheik/Kirby matchup, since it messes up her grab game and tilt combos, but then again Sheik can win vs Kirby by just running around spamming needles and needle grabs and win really freaking easily so it's kind of moot.
Also Kirby tends to recover from below the stage so being patient with ledgehopped n-airs or b-airs works. Just wait for the cutter. There's no hitbox at the vertex of the cutter so just wait for it and hit them then. You will want to hit them, though, because they can probably see you edgehogging and will likely be going for the stage.
I kind of think Kirby's crouch should be respected in the Sheik/Kirby matchup, since it messes up her grab game and tilt combos, but then again Sheik can win vs Kirby by just running around spamming needles and needle grabs and win really freaking easily so it's kind of moot.
Also Kirby tends to recover from below the stage so being patient with ledgehopped n-airs or b-airs works. Just wait for the cutter. There's no hitbox at the vertex of the cutter so just wait for it and hit them then. You will want to hit them, though, because they can probably see you edgehogging and will likely be going for the stage.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
o.... rly?
The crouch used to own me, but just train yourself not to punch/grab as often and it's not that bad. I usually just retreat to needles. Camping needles is too good.
Dragon_Hawk
Smash Lord
How to win the easy way versus Kirby:
Spam needles. Run away. Spam needles. Run away. Needle grab for the kill. Stick to N-air and SHFFLed F-airs if you're trying to hit him from the air for whatever reason. Avoid actually fighting because you really don't have to and the more you fight the closer this matchup becomes to an actual match. Edgeguard with ledgehopped N-air or B-air. Run away a lot. Spam needles. Needle camp.
Don't let him do "Funny Business" and by that I mean be cautious at the edge and if he's stalling near the edge or trying to get you to follow him, don't. Toss needles at him. If he's going out of his way to head to the edge, he's probably trying to suicide-KO you. Kirby's only efficient KOs come from edgeguarding or suicides so don't let him do either. Spam needles and don't be afraid to camp. Remember: Kirby is horrible at dealing with projectile spam off speedy characters, horrible at KOing until high percentages and if you trade hits with him in actual combat you're playing to his strengths, his main strengths in this matchup being his overextended grab range, crouching height and CCed Tilts and D-smash.
If you avoid actual fighting (hint: Don't be grounded and don't try to tilt combo him unless you want to take damage) and just play a really simple hit/run game with needle grabbing, high priority aerials, lagless aerials and needle camping (obviously you're going to have to fight at random intervals but avoid those and rack up free damage because it's easier to win that way) you'll destroy him fairly badly because he really doesn't have an answer to any of those; especially the needles. He's basically forced to mess up his approach to get out of the way (or he eats about 18-22% off grabs, which is quite a bit when Kirby's killed at 90%). And if the sheer presence of needles is messing up his approach, you've probably already won half the battle.
Spam needles. Run away. Spam needles. Run away. Needle grab for the kill. Stick to N-air and SHFFLed F-airs if you're trying to hit him from the air for whatever reason. Avoid actually fighting because you really don't have to and the more you fight the closer this matchup becomes to an actual match. Edgeguard with ledgehopped N-air or B-air. Run away a lot. Spam needles. Needle camp.
Don't let him do "Funny Business" and by that I mean be cautious at the edge and if he's stalling near the edge or trying to get you to follow him, don't. Toss needles at him. If he's going out of his way to head to the edge, he's probably trying to suicide-KO you. Kirby's only efficient KOs come from edgeguarding or suicides so don't let him do either. Spam needles and don't be afraid to camp. Remember: Kirby is horrible at dealing with projectile spam off speedy characters, horrible at KOing until high percentages and if you trade hits with him in actual combat you're playing to his strengths, his main strengths in this matchup being his overextended grab range, crouching height and CCed Tilts and D-smash.
If you avoid actual fighting (hint: Don't be grounded and don't try to tilt combo him unless you want to take damage) and just play a really simple hit/run game with needle grabbing, high priority aerials, lagless aerials and needle camping (obviously you're going to have to fight at random intervals but avoid those and rack up free damage because it's easier to win that way) you'll destroy him fairly badly because he really doesn't have an answer to any of those; especially the needles. He's basically forced to mess up his approach to get out of the way (or he eats about 18-22% off grabs, which is quite a bit when Kirby's killed at 90%). And if the sheer presence of needles is messing up his approach, you've probably already won half the battle.
NeighborhoodP
Smash Hero
Falling uairs ****
Sporkman
Smash Ace
SPAWN is a master of subtlety.
The Newb
Smash Ace
Have less conflicting free time, Plank. My falcon needs to beat your everything some more >_>
itsneverfair
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2007
- Messages
- 26
uh does anyone ever shffl dairs? is it possible to get the entire hitbox out (her full leg extension) or is there not enough time in the short hop?
goateeguy
Smash Ace
i ffl dairs, i only use them on stupid comps who stand there and let me hit them. They are so aloof to anything directly above them coming down at high velocity lol.
All_Characters
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2007
- Messages
- 139
First of all the Down+B thing was hilarious.
Secondly, while doing the down+B to save you CAN help. You have to know when you can live. Because if you die anyways, and you transform just as you come back to life, you will lose your invinsibility.
Third, I disagree with the Shiek vs. Shiek matchup. Sheik has a distinct advantage if shes able to "out-attack" sheik when they are both running towards each other. I'd say this one is 70% for shiek. Please make the change.
Finally, I do realise that it is spelled SHEIK, but I before E should always be excercised.
Banks
Smash Hero
wow how does plank beat masahiro, nurok and blues with such furor LOLOL
robyextreme
Smash Ace
I main both Shiek & Pichu
For fighting pichu the only thing you have to watch out for is GRABS. A good pichu will tech chase you because you're thrown so low and need to tech or safure f-smash and your tech leads to up-smash. And nairs are dangerous at higher %.
Needling is quite difficult as well.
For fighting pichu the only thing you have to watch out for is GRABS. A good pichu will tech chase you because you're thrown so low and need to tech or safure f-smash and your tech leads to up-smash. And nairs are dangerous at higher %.
Needling is quite difficult as well.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
Plank I accept this 100 dollar Sheik ditto MM
thesage
Smash Hero
Is it from DI'ing up and away, or doing some weird DjC'd airdodge?
SandStorm7
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2007
- Messages
- 40
I can't beat my sheik friend as Ness but I usually do win as peach. Some of those percentages are really discouraging. Sheik is more fun to play when you switch between her and zelda in my opinion. Anyway an interesting read.
Ares726
Smash Ace
Needs more update imo. Nah, take your time. Good stuff with Pound man. I heard it was the best tournament ever run. Congrats.