Pit in Brawl +

[Rogue Pit]

Tell me what you think of Pit generally in the brawl hacks in an attempt to make brawl more like the already perfect game melee.
I'm going to tell you now, i was not good in melee, actually i play it more now for fun and just got down pillaring. But my WaveDashing is very horrible, so is my L-cancel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy4O-h0xna8

That's me vs. a Falcon MAIN in melee

These Hacks include : Hitstun, L-Canceling, and Melee Air dodge system including Wavedash.

This was litterly at a brawl hacked tournament.



Personally I really did hate it. They made Pit heavily, his mid air jumps bring him up less now, or not less just he moves down faster. This hurt me in two ways. First off when in my Wings I'm already susceptible to being gimped, it then took me a longer time to elevate.
Then the biggest part was it made me Glide-shift. I don't know about other Pit players, but i depend on the height of my Gliding start point so i can glide attack without being shield-grabbed. Starting it at a lower position offstage really messed me up.

Also with the Hitstun, it thus main MK's tornado more dangerous, sometimes you pop out of it, but i didn't pop out of it once, when i played a MK.

Good things i see are more arrow snipes. It works better here but i could still do it in Brawl. Also the L-canceling helps because there's about 10-20 frames of Pit being vulnerable after a SH Nair. So i SH Nair Fast-Fall, L-canceled.

It's good for pit, but the differences from what I'm use to made me pissed off the entire tournament.

Just want to know what you think about Pit in Brawl +

 

[Undrdog]

Since Brawl+ will never be tournament standard I've got no interest in it.

WaveDashing would be pretty neat I admit. But not that big a deal.

Hitstun, while in some ways is good, would make Brawl more like Melee.

Characters with Auto Cancels and timeable SH attacks are nerfed by L-Canceling.

S-Canceling is totally stupid.


Oh and when I say "makes Brawl more like Melee", I mean that in a very bad way. Brawl > Melee. ^_^ I see Brawl as a Fighter. In the same way I see other Fighting sports. Metagame should always be top priority. In Melee this wasn't the case.

I'll stop ranting here, but I'll throw out my analogy I've made in the past regarding Melee and Brawl.

Melee is to Brawl; what Checkers is to Chess. In one game you can take several pieces against a powerless opponent. In the other you have to force your opponent into following your unseen agenda again and again. Now which of these two games is the most competitive?

(Yeah I know I went off-topic.)

 

[Phaigne]

I have to say I completely agree with you Undr.

 

[Coffee™]

Tell me what you think of Pit generally in the brawl hacks in an attempt to make brawl more like the already perfect game melee.

For one I think people need to get over Melee and stop trying to make Brawl Melee 2.0.

 

[kupo15]

I actually like ZZS better tbh atm, though, Pit has some decent combos.
I don't like melee air dodging at all and wavedashing. I think it ruins the fun of the game and its not my preferred method for approaching in brawl. I have way more fun with the standard way of spacing.

Undr: I really have to ask you since I see this pop up a lot and we've known each other for some time. How does hit stun make brawl like melee? Why do ppl keep comparing it to melee? Why can't hit stun make brawl more like 64 or why cant hit stun make the game more balanced and more like a fighter? These are serious questions that I have been wondering about for some time.

S cancel is dumb i agree.

For one I think people need to get over Melee and stop trying to make Brawl Melee 2.0.

Yea I agree. This is one reason why I don't support melee air dodge or gravity mods. But no tripping, hit stun and l canceling is a mechanic that creates balance in this game. The removal of them is the reason why MK is so dominant right now. With the fixes, the game is more balanced and everyone has about an equal chance to compete which is what I like about Brawl+

 

[Undrdog]

64 had massive knockback with moves. There weren't insane combos in the 64 edition because of the knockback. Hitstun in Brawl makes nearly every character a combo master. 0-Death combos will start appearing left and right and the person who gets the first hit in will win the first stock nearly every time. Brawl is very balanced. With the exception of Metaknight that is. Characters that can combo (Samus for example) don't do insane damage with their combos. Characters that can't combo at all have good knockback.

An example of this I can give with Pit. You can chain three Dairs against most characters and then land a Sugar Bair as a legitimate combo. Just isn't right. If this game was designed for that sort of hitstun I would much rather have the hitstun then what we have now. But if inescapable combos will become the norm? I don't want it.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I prefer no Wavedashing or any of that. However, Pit having Combos is just great, though so will the others.
I personally wouldnt want any of it.

 

[kupo15]

I hope you will indulge me with this convo because I would like to understand where you come from even though I like the direction brawl+ is going.

Im a little shocked that you say that 64 didn't have insane combos when out of the three games, they have the most insane combos. The knockback was higher than melee yes, but the stun time, 0 lag canceling and better air speed was enough to make up for that. Basically every char had cookie cutter combos that you can practice in training mode and pull of 0-death combos. The reason is because the defense game was lacking. There was no air dodging, wall teching, shields were generally a set up for a shield breaker and it had a very weak DI system which means 99% of the time, they go the same direction every time with the particular move. This is the main reason why comboing was insane and how 0-deaths existed.

Now brawl on the other hand, has an incredibly powerful DI system, (the most powerful IMO). The defensive game is amped up tremendously, about as amped up as 64's offensive game. Not only that, but the move decay system is the strongest also.

Because of Brawls immensely powerful def and amazing DI, I feel that 0-death combos (if its even possible) will be tremendously hard to do. Combined with how easy it is to recover, I don't think 0-death combos will be that prevalent against good opponents.

I feel that the combo system and stuff will be enough to capitalize on a mistake by giving you the chance of bringing your opponent up to kill perc really fast, then you have to play brawls vers of smash for the kill. I feel that this is what will make brawl the best smash game so far.

I have a question, have you seen Isai's pika in 64? It doesn't seem like it if you think that 64 didn't have insane combos. I dont doubt that your knowledgeable (your in the SBR ^_^) but Im curious

 

[Coffee™]

I feel that the combo system and stuff will be enough to capitalize on a mistake by giving you the chance of bringing your opponent up to kill perc really fast, then you have to play brawls vers of smash for the kill. I feel that this is what will make brawl the best smash game so far.

My question is why this is even necessary? If you make a mistake in Brawl that same powerful defensive system you mention enables you to recover quickly without taking large amounts of damage. By altering the game to create a combo system what would increase the ease of 0-Death combos similar to Melee in attempts to allow characters to catchup percentage-wise with their opponents seems quite unecessary.

 

[saviorslegacy]

For one I think people need to get over Melee and stop trying to make Brawl Melee 2.0.

You just made my day. Melee should be Melee... and Brawl should be Brawl. It's real simple.

 

[kupo15]

My question is why this is even necessary? If you make a mistake in Brawl that same powerful defensive system you mention enables you to recover quickly without taking large amounts of damage. By altering the game to create a combo system what would increase the ease of 0-Death combos similar to Melee in attempts to allow characters to catchup percentage-wise with their opponents seems quite unecessary.

note: MK is not included ever in regular brawl. I only support hit stun, lag canceling and no tripping atm. Maybe no auto sweetspotting.

No it would not. In brawl if you make a mistake, you get one hit, you can not follow up, and the momentum is reset to neutral. Now you need to do the same mind game process all over again to score another hit then it resets to neutral again. You may be luck to land 2 hits but its still not a good enough reward for the risk which is why brawl is very campy. There is no reward for being aggressive.

With hitstun, there is a reward for being aggressive and for taking a risk. You can chain multiple moves together if your good enough and this makes the game very exciting. There is now a real punishment system that was lacking before.

Trust me when I say that adding hit stun will not make 0-deaths easy because it won't. The main reason why is because the DI is really good. This means that following up with moves are much harder since they will be further away. Following up with moves are hard because the 95% of the moves are programmed to just knock ppl away and have no combo potential. All combo like ground moves are extremely laggy and takes a long time to recover from to follow up. The stale move system will also adjust the hit stun time you have as well.

Brawl will be really hard to 0-death if it is even possible due mainly to strong DI, slow air movement, non combo like moves with big knockback, laggy ground moves, and a very effective stale move system that will really make you think about which moves are the best for comboing.

I highly doubt from the testing of brawl+ I have done that brawl will become broken with 0-death moves and combo city. I feel that brawl+ when perfected will require the most amount of skill to pull of great combos due to all of these forces put in the game to eliminate comboing.

64 had a broken combo system because of extremely difficult DI which is why you could memorize combos in training mode and apply them to the game. In brawl, you cant memorize combos.

EDIT: Why do you think MK is so dominating? Its because he doesn't play with the rock, paper, scissors game that everyone else does. He can actually combo and he is so fast that his moves don't need l canceling. With hit stun and lag canceling, MK hardly benefits and everyone else picks up the tools needed for them to compete like MK does which makes the game much more balanced. Comboing wont be unique to MK anymore which means he wont be broken like he is now.

EDIT: Hit stun does not affect DDD' CG or Falco's CG. It only affects moves that put you into the tumble, not flinch hits.

 

[Coffee™]

I've never played Brawl+ but if what you say is true then it seems like it could be decent. However I would never support something like it for tourney play since too little people would have access to it.

And just for the record I don't think Metaknight/Snake are broken like a lot of people tend to say, I just think people whine too much. ^^

 

[kupo15]

I've never played Brawl+ but if what you say is true then it seems like it could be decent. However I would never support something like it for tourney play since too little people would have access to it.

And just for the record I don't think Metaknight/Snake are broken like a lot of people tend to say, I just think people whine too much. ^^

Im on the fence. After playing m2ks MK, i thought he was broken. But since I picked him up, its easier to find holes but nothing changes the fact that he is overpowered because he can combo and has an answer for everything. Keep brawl tourneys brawl tourneys. There are side tourneys for brawl+ anyway. But I agree that snake is not broken at all. Snake is fun to play against.

You just made my day. Melee should be Melee... and Brawl should be Brawl. It's real simple.

I don't want brawl to be melee. I want brawl to be more competitive and with the three hacks I mentioned, that will make brawl competitive while still keeping it brawl. You still have to go through the trouble of finding an opening to punish and deal with the gay stuff like CGs but this way, you will be rewarded for doing so.

Atm, its not fair or balanced for lets say Ganon to have to work so hard to find an opening in snakes defense and get no reward for doing so. Its not fair or balanced on the flip side for snake to not have to work hard to deal a lot of damage easily because his character is naturally better. Snake being a higher tier char is more rewarded by being able to punish ganon more often and easily than ganon can to snake. With hitstun and lag canceling, both characters are still unique in their traits, but its more balanced because they both get rewarded instead of it being one sided.

Melee air dodge hack and gravity changes will change brawl and I am against that.

 

[link2702]

I still can't understand why people force brawl into Melee 2.0, instead of just playing it the way it was programmed, i'm also shocked this "brawl+" crap has actually lasted this long, I know I can't do anything about it....but still is saddens me that people are too immature, and couldn't accept brawl for the amazing game it is, and learn that its not melee, or smash64, and to stop treating it as such......


if people did this....brawls real competitive aspects might actually develop, but htis brawl+ crap is just holding that back....

 

[kupo15]

I still can't understand why people force brawl into Melee 2.0, instead of just playing it the way it was programmed, i'm also shocked this "brawl+" crap has actually lasted this long, I know I can't do anything about it....but still is saddens me that people are too immature, and couldn't accept brawl for the amazing game it is, and learn that its not melee, or smash64, and to stop treating it as such......


if people did this....brawls real competitive aspects might actually develop, but htis brawl+ crap is just holding that back....

Way to be ignorant link. What basis are you making that assumption on? Brawl can still be brawl with the three fixes I mentioned. They are core elements to the series (hit stun, lag canceling) purposely taken out not for competitive play and to make the game better, but taken out to vanquish competitive play and turn it into Mario party. If you think otherwise than you are lying to yourself the same way I did before I realized the truth of Sakurai's intentions. A good developer caters to all audiences instead of forcing everyone to play it their way. The first two smashes were catered to all audiences, why must brawl not be?

I am not treating it like melee nor 64, but brawl with competition.

And btw, brawl as it is is complete trash. It is an abomination of the term "competitive fighter" and you shouldn't cover it up...its just a glorified party game atm that we should not be gambling on like we are....I am sorry to have to be the one to break it to you but its the truth...

if your not referring to me, Im sorry.

 

[Ryos4]

hmm i thought i was the only one who had the view of meele and the inescapable 0-death combos kinda stupid. Yeah it may have looked pretty interesting with the long stringing combos but being already at death once u get hit is rather stupid, it makes everyone so paranoid and defensive that most of the match i just 2 players trying to fake the other person out and dancing around the stage. Hoping to get the first hit in. The only reason i even enjoy playing brawl is that it gives you more of a chance to adapt to ur opponents style and keep each other guessing. Adaptability plays a much more important roll then it ever has in the other SSB, instead of it just being quick reflexes and basic strat.

And i do agree with the whole checker/chess analogy.

Well that and i think certain characters would be way to cheap without being able to aerial dodge and still be able to jump on ur way back to recover. So many characters wouldnt be able to recover against pit if he has mastered aiming his arrows and there is no way to dodge them. They can be shot pretty much anywhere, so theoretically there would be no way to recover.

 

[kupo15]

hmm i thought i was the only one who had the view of meele and the inescapable 0-death combos kinda stupid. Yeah it may have looked pretty interesting with the long stringing combos but being already at death once u get hit is rather stupid, it makes everyone so paranoid and defensive that most of the match i just 2 players trying to fake the other person out and dancing around the stage. Hoping to get the first hit in. The only reason i even enjoy playing brawl is that it gives you more of a chance to adapt to ur opponents style and keep each other guessing. Adaptability plays a much more important roll then it ever has in the other SSB, instead of it just being quick reflexes and basic strat.

And i do agree with the whole checker/chess analogy.

Well that and i think certain characters would be way to cheap without being able to aerial dodge and still be able to jump on ur way back to recover. So many characters wouldnt be able to recover against pit if he has mastered aiming his arrows and there is no way to dodge them. They can be shot pretty much anywhere, so theoretically there would be no way to recover.

We agree to a certain extent. I don't want to see 0-death combos in brawl like 64 and I know they wont be here the way your seeing it. I also agree that we should keep brawls' air dodge

(bolded) What do you think brawl is right now? Everyone is trying to play defensive and fake everyone out all the time. This is how you get your hits. I think that its stupid to have to work for every single move and have no reward whatsoever for punishing. Hitstun won't change the game that much, you will still have your brawl like gameplay for the first hit and then you can get rewarded by following up a string of moves that with good DI will make it very hard to combo effectively.

I think its impossible to play anymore defensive than what you see now. Everyone is camping and so defensive because that is what the game favors....everyone except MK. MK is the most offensive char because he knows that he can combo. Wouldn't it be nice to see chars being able to compete with MK at his level?

Basic point, if you have good DI, comboing in this game will be very difficult. This means that you have to adapt much more so to your opponent to combo than before since the DI is so strong. You are not losing your adaptability with hitstun. This game will still be focused more on adaptability and it wont be as technical as melee either.

 

[Rogue Pit]

Tbh, i think that the only thing the hacks should "Fix" is what's actually broken in the game. The "Competitive" play as kupo mentions as you can plainly see wasn't meant for brawl. If you wanted that play melee.
There's a decrease of Hitstun so comboing doesn't completely rule the game. You have to ACTUALLY WORK for everything. Moves lead into other moves and disadvantage players from their position.

The game revolves around camping and defensive play, to get around noob tactics you have to be smart, and like Ryos said you need to Adapt.

But i agree there are things wrong. Mach tornado should decrease in priority. Falco and D3 chaingrabs should be DI out able. Completely cheap tactics are being banned to make the game more competitive, like IC's CGs, and D3 small step CG on Boozer and Dk.

The only real problem is working. But kupo if you wish for the game to help you out to kill people easier, i cannot change your mind.

Wise man once said, "I may not agree with what you have to say, But I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
*I can't remember who said that!!!* European Philosopher? Locke maybe?

 

[kupo15]

Yea, well if I want the game to help me kill ppl easier because Im tired of boring campy matches where there is no depth and the gap between players is small, ill just play mk XD

Tbh, i think that the only thing the hacks should "Fix" is what's actually broken in the game. The "Competitive" play as kupo mentions as you can plainly see wasn't meant for brawl. If you wanted that play melee.

Playing devils advocate, what fixes did you mean? If I only want no tripping, hit stun and l canceling, then ill play 64. But if I want to add wavedashing and gravity, ill play melee XD

I have fun playing this glorified party game, but sometimes I want a competitive fighter...

 

[Shaolin-Ninja]

Wise man once said, "I may not agree with what you have to say, But I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
*I can't remember who said that!!!* European Philosopher? Locke maybe?

That would be Voltair. One of my favorite quotes.

On topic: I support kupo15. Tripping is downright frustrating, and I often catch myself "L-canceling" anyway. Hitstun would make Brawl a more balanced and fun game.

I have to admit that I'd have no problem with Brawl being Melee with more characters, and I sometimes miss the wavedashing days, but there's no need to overdo it. I think that the gravity thing should be left out at least; Pit's glide and WoI for instance, show that the characters in Brawl are a little too dependant on the gravity. I guess that if Pit was in Melee, he'd not "auto Glide-shift". I guess the awkwardness I feel if I play with higher gravity (and especially when gliding) turns me away.

Hope this made sense - it's late here.

 

[rinoH]

i like how you guys are complaining about brawl when instead of trying to change it(like you guys are doing) why dont you just play melee and look at other fighting games there arent really combos you just have to mindgame them to get the combo like SF4 or DoA 4

 

[kupo15]

melee doesnt have pit...

 

[rinoH]

true -_- lol

 

[Jenkins]

What i don't understand is why on this freakin earth would Sakurai try to take one of THE biggest competitive multiplayer games around and turn it into something else, like, as Kupo said, Mario Party. I'm SO sick of losing to campers. Hell, even KEN lost to a 14 YEAR OLD CAMPER at an Evo brawl tournament. Granted, items were on, but when you're one of the freakin best in the world, it really shouldn't matter. I occasionally lose to a 7th grader on wifi because of his camping. I'm 16 and have been playing this game WAYYY longer than he has... oh god you got me angry lol. I don't know it seems that the best are still winning though...with some exceptions...

 

[kupo15]

Jenkins, play MK or brawl+. This wont happen again

 

[Rogue Pit]

What i don't understand is why on this freakin earth would Sakurai try to take one of THE biggest competitive multiplayer games around and turn it into something else, like, as Kupo said, Mario Party. I'm SO sick of losing to campers. Hell, even KEN lost to a 14 YEAR OLD CAMPER at an Evo brawl tournament. Granted, items were on, but when you're one of the freakin best in the world, it really shouldn't matter. I occasionally lose to a 7th grader ON WIFI because of his camping. I'm 16 and have been playing this game WAYYY longer than he has... oh god you got me angry lol. I don't know it seems that the best are still winning though...with some exceptions...

Bolded, No argument

On topic, I guess won't the hacks don't appeal to me is because i was afraid of change or didn't want to. No tripping would be great, i think wavedash should be left out, gravity left out, and hitstun is debatable. Sure you can combo more but what does that mean for other characters who are dominating the game. Mk's Tornado now became stronger, and Snake can combo more into Utilt, GW can probably land a Bair, D/Fsmash no problem.

With L-canceling i think moves have lag for a reason, For snake to be able to Nair, and Land perfectly by hitting L in one of 6 frames than Ftilt, doesn't really shout great idea, GW Fair is one of laggy aerials which is easiest to punish, but gets harder with Lcancel. Marth's Dair will be like in Melee, Marth can't fight people under him but he won't have problems since he won't have to worry about lag. And there's plenty more of that. Lower Tiers characters will get a plus, but Top Tier will get it too, leaving the gap betweens the characters the same if not greater. IMO it will not make brawl more competitive, just making melee cry-babies happier.

Like someone esle, if you want a more competitive game, play something esle, Street Fighter, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 etc.

 

[rinoH]

lol mortal kombat 3 you make me laugh Rogue

 

[kupo15]

Bolded, No argument

On topic, I guess won't the hacks don't appeal to me is because i was afraid of change or didn't want to. No tripping would be great, i think wavedash should be left out, gravity left out, and hitstun is debatable. Sure you can combo more but what does that mean for other characters who are dominating the game. Mk's Tornado now became stronger, and Snake can combo more into Utilt, GW can probably land a Bair, D/Fsmash no problem.

With L-canceling i think moves have lag for a reason, For snake to be able to Nair, and Land perfectly by hitting L in one of 6 frames than Ftilt, doesn't really shout great idea, GW Fair is one of laggy aerials which is easiest to punish, but gets harder with Lcancel. Marth's Dair will be like in Melee, Marth can't fight people under him but he won't have problems since he won't have to worry about lag. And there's plenty more of that. Lower Tiers characters will get a plus, but Top Tier will get it too, leaving the gap betweens the characters the same if not greater. IMO it will not make brawl more competitive, just making melee cry-babies happier.

Like someone esle, if you want a more competitive game, play something esle, Street Fighter, Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 etc.

Im sorry Rogue but I disagree on so many levels I cant even start typing a response. With all the debating ive done already, I don't feel like having debates about the same stuff over and over in different places. Its much better, you should try it, auto l canceling is awesome, cant wait for shield stun.

I only agree that grav and WD is a no go, other than that, you are almost totally wrong in your assumptions..

 

[Kais3000]

Wait, wait, wait, is the only argument against gravity the fact that Pits recovery gets nerfed?

Are you actually be serious with this. Pits' recovery is insane and with increased gravity it actually makes it balanced. With no hitstun also it is hard to kill characters like Pit and TL because they can airdodge and basically DI back to the stage. More gravity = worse recovery which is good as quite a few recoveries are insane anyway.

I play Brawl+ with hitstun, auto l-cancel and gravity up. Makes for a much better game as you worry that if you do that move then that it will be punished with a combo. Haven't experienced any 0-death combos yet though (except me with my IC's). More shield stun and less frames for powershield needed. Seriously powershielding is so overpowered and easy. Directional airdodging is a no no though.

 

[kupo15]

Wait, wait, wait, is the only argument against gravity the fact that Pits recovery gets nerfed?

Are you actually be serious with this. Pits' recovery is insane and with increased gravity it actually makes it balanced. With no hitstun also it is hard to kill characters like Pit and TL because they can airdodge and basically DI back to the stage. More gravity = worse recovery which is good as quite a few recoveries are insane anyway.

I play Brawl+ with hitstun, auto l-cancel and gravity up. Makes for a much better game as you worry that if you do that move then that it will be punished with a combo. Haven't experienced any 0-death combos yet though (except me with my IC's). More shield stun and less frames for powershield needed. Seriously powershielding is so overpowered and easy. Directional airdodging is a no no though.

Idc how good pits recovery is, it still nerfs it a little. Not only that, but Im pretty sure you cant auto cancel his Dair and Uair anymore.

Im sorry to say this, but Pit is quite boring in brawl+ mainly because brawl+ is getting rid of the powerful spam and camp in this game which is a good thing. I don't find his combos to be as good as I thought esp compared to Ganon, CF, Zamus, and TL.

Ill still play Pit but the hand to hand combat is more exciting to me now. Maybe later Ill enjoy Pit a little more when the excitement with the other chars wears off.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

Kupo youve changed a lot
and thats not necessarily a good thing

i dont see how having to work for hits is a bad thing, its much better then one mistake determining the game, this way it actually shows who the better player is. I dont know your background in statistics but matches being determined from just a few mistakes, or well planned out moves are not nearly as representative of actual ability as matches being determined by many mistakes or well planned out moves

that being said, the only thing that should be changed in brawl is tripping

 

[metaXzero]

Kupo youve changed a lot
and thats not necessarily a good thing

i dont see how having to work for hits is a bad thing, its much better then one mistake determining the game, this way it actually shows who the better player is. I dont know your background in statistics but matches being determined from just a few mistakes, or well planned out moves are not nearly as representative of actual ability as matches being determined by many mistakes or well planned out moves

that being said, the only thing that should be changed in brawl is tripping

Being attacked should AT LEAST put you in a bad position. If not, their is no reason to play offensively. You're better off camping then. And campy matches are boring...

Remember people, Brawl+ is not replacing Brawl. It's its own game.

 

[kupo15]

Kupo youve changed a lot
and thats not necessarily a good thing

i dont see how having to work for hits is a bad thing, its much better then one mistake determining the game, this way it actually shows who the better player is. I dont know your background in statistics but matches being determined from just a few mistakes, or well planned out moves are not nearly as representative of actual ability as matches being determined by many mistakes or well planned out moves

that being said, the only thing that should be changed in brawl is tripping

Ive mained low tiers for a while and even though Pit is not low tier, you still have to work pretty hard. This is fun but sometimes I want things to be a little easier while still being hard if that makes sense. Falcon is extremely fun in brawl+ and his combos are great so idk why its bad that I would rather play CF a little more especially when I find him more fun in brawl+. In games where aggressive offense is favorable, not doing that and camp with arrows is extremely boring. The current codes we have actually make his camping worse and unfavorable making him not as good. Pit cant be more aggressive until shield stun comes out. Then his nair and AR will be able to shield pressure.

The better player is the one who wins. Period. No one cares how you win and if you have to work twice as hard and especially in competition where money is on the line. If I am good at two characters, one being high tier and one who has to work hard, ill use the high tier. But I will still use the lower tier for fun. There is no "honor" in fighting and you should play characters you like to play. There is nothing wrong working harder than someone and there is nothing wrong playing high tiers who dont have to work as hard. Its the sad truth and one would be foolish to ignore that fact like I once did.

One or two mistakes doesn't determine the match by itself. If they make a mistake, they must continue to make mistakes for combos to be really effective due to poor DI and such. Comboing well is a skill and not as easy as you think. Comboing, DI, and surviving mistakes show skill, not making a mistake that the game allows you to get out of all the time. And I don't see how working hard for your moves is better than a game that allows you to get out of every mistake easily. There is a difference between working hard in a game that rewards you for working hard and working hard in a game that could care less that there is no reward for working hard.

As I said, I hated brawl at first then pit saved it due to his playstyle fitting me as well as the nature of the game. Despite that, Brawl is still a very boring and stupid fighter. Nothing flows, it is terriblely unbalanced, and it has the worst glitches. Why wouldnt I want to play a better game if I had the choice?

I have spent almost 9 months as Pit Pit Pit Pit Pit. Thats it. Ive studied him and found out tricks for him and worked hard on him. There shouldnt be a problem with me taking a little break to experiment with other characters now that more characters re more viable....

/rant

EDIT:
btw these are the hacks i use

No trip
infinite replay time
Auto l canceling
Hitstun 11.75%

Notice there is no wavedashing or gravity hacks

 

[teh_pwns_the]

lol haha ok you can have fun playing with your silly hacks while the rest of us play the "boring and stupid fighter" all i know is that i have more fun playing brawl then i ever did with melee, and if camping is favored so heavily in brawl then why is the god tier character not able to camp nearly as well as pit who is only high tier. Brawl buffed defense in comparison to the other games however superior strategy and execution will always win sure mk is a little unbalanced (not unbeatable) but besides him and the low tiers the game is very balanced. you accuse it of being glitchy when you choose to main one of the glitchiest chars almost for the fact that he is glitchy, after all werent you the one who discovered wingdashing? and while we are on the subject of glitches melee had the biggest spacing glitch EVER more widely known as wave dashing

oohhhh btw you are wrong, well actually i cant say you are wrong but my opinion differs from yours on playing not as high tier chars, personally i know that if some guy beats me with ganondorf i will have much more respect for him then someone who beats me with MK. and if you really think nothing flows in brawl try playing lucario or something he flows pretty well.

 

[Doctor X]

People who think Brawl is bad can't just go play a good game, can they? They have to try to *make* Brawl into a good game with silly, arbitrary, and impractical hacks. It can't be tournament standard. It can never be sponsored by any professional organization. It's not even necessarily more balanced, it just has some stuff in it that people like. Personally I think Brawl+ is an embarrassment to the community and does nothing but demonstrate our stubbornness when it comes to choosing what games we want to play.

 

[kupo15]

Lol, you both are very funny with personal biased and wrong info.

and if camping is favored so heavily in brawl then why is the god tier character not able to camp nearly as well as pit who is only high tier.

Ever heard of planking? Try camping against MK and see what happens. You dont need a projectile to camp. You can also have a long ranged sword, 6 jumps, super fast attacks, super fast ground speed, the best dash attack in the game, and a tornado to cover up when your exposed to camp.

And MK is an exception to this game because he can combo. Even though the game favors defense, the way MK is made throws that away. He is so fast, so versatility and has so many options for every situation that he doesn't have to abide by the defensive nature of the game. He can throw out attacks and force you to deal with it. He doesn't play by the same rock paper scissor rule the same way everyone else has to.

So not only does he have something that favors the way the game is designed his move set allows him to not play by the same rules and be more offensive. He can camp really well and be aggressive at the same time which is why he is god tier. I could probably write a whole essay about MK but youd be better off listening to the SBR's podcast about banning him or not.

you accuse it of being glitchy when you choose to main one of the glitchiest chars almost for the fact that he is glitchy, after all werent you the one who discovered wingdashing?

Here is where you are wrong...completely. Wingdashing is not a glitch, its an exploit. Arrow looping is not a glitch, its an exploit. We are using Pit's move set in a way they didn't think was possible. You are allowed to attack out of your WoI as long as you are not touching the ground and we do this close to the ground. Laser locking and triple jump glitch is a glitch.

and while we are on the subject of glitches melee had the biggest spacing glitch EVER more widely known as wave dashing

Apparently you don't know what a glitch is. Wavedashing is not a glitch, its a exploit in the physics system. You should know what actually is a glitch before saying if they are or not. In fact, there is a nice thread in the Tactical Discussion boards that go through what is a glitch, exploit and intended. Wave dashing is NOT a glitch..

and if you really think nothing flows in brawl try playing lucario or something he flows pretty well.

Nothing flows well because you can escape hit stun with an AD or an aerial. The only character that really flows well is MK and that is because he can combo.

They have to try to *make* Brawl into a good game with silly, arbitrary, and impractical hacks. It can't be tournament standard. It can never be sponsored by any professional organization.

Maybe you should do some research before making outlandish claims

www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6059110&postcount=197
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6056443&postcount=194
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6039757&postcount=64

It's not even necessarily more balanced, it just has some stuff in it that people like.

Yea ok. So with l canceling, characters can actually moves they couldn't use before due to lag. Because of hit stun, MK isn't the only one who can combo, because of shield stun, characters can use their moves the way its suppose to be and use moves more effectively than they could. And you say this doesn't create balance and its only what we want in the game.....

Personally I think Brawl+ is an embarrassment to the community and does nothing but demonstrate our stubbornness when it comes to choosing what games we want to play.

Have fun losing or almost losing a worse player who picks up MK for an hour even though youve played pit for months. Have fun playing a game where the only "combos" are CG and infinite CG where you can't escape on your own. Have fun will grab release infinites and bouncing on the ground from lasers and jabs and icicles.

Wow, brawl has brainwashed all of you....

 

[kupo15]

ignore this

 

[Rogue Pit]

Lol heated debate, see ya next time for part 3.

 

[kown]

brawl is brawl...and melee is melee.. dont try to mix the games. if u still want to play melee just play it...

and this is my opinion...hitstun is gay...just watching my self floating in the air TRYING to jump and being comboed because its not reacting to my input...its like playing online.

haha but wtvr my main point is just to keep brawl as it is and if you dont like it than go play melee.

 

[metaXzero]

brawl is brawl...and melee is melee.. dont try to mix the games. if u still want to play melee just play it...

and this is my opinion...hitstun is gay...just watching my self floating in the air TRYING to jump and being comboed because its not reacting to my input...its like playing online.

haha but wtvr my main point is just to keep brawl as it is and if you dont like it than go play melee.

We can do whatever the **** we want thank you very much. If you don't like Brawl+, you don't have to play it. But stop this "Don't change Brawl" and "go play Melee" Bull. Brawl+ (even if we do use the Melee Airdodge) will NEVER be Melee. That's not even the goal.