Pit in Brawl +

[kown]

We can do whatever the **** we want thank you very much. If you don't like Brawl+, you don't have to play it. But stop this "Don't change Brawl" and "go play Melee" Bull. Brawl+ (even if we do use the Melee Airdodge) will NEVER be Melee. That's not even the goal.

i lol'ed.

instead of ranting for a couple of sentences you could of said what your goal was....but you didnt even get to that.

 

[Team Giza]

brawl is brawl...and melee is melee.. dont try to mix the games. if u still want to play melee just play it...

And brawl+ is brawl+, not melee.

and this is my opinion...hitstun is gay...just watching my self floating in the air TRYING to jump and being comboed because its not reacting to my input...its like playing online.

Learn to DI? There is always something you can do to influence the direction of the match. Its not just a watch a combo game like you find in games like Marvel vs capcom 2 or Hokuto no ken. There is a lot of diversity that is created through comboing and there is still quite a few options you have after being put into the combo in this game. Learn to DI.

haha but wtvr my main point is just to keep brawl as it is and if you dont like it than go play melee.

If I feel like playing melee I'll play melee. If I feel like playing brawl I'll play brawl. If I feel like playing smash bros 64 I'll play smash bros 64. And if I feel like playing brawl+ I am gonna play brawl+.

Also I don't think melee air dodge should be in Brawl+.

 

[metaXzero]

i lol'ed.

instead of ranting for a couple of sentences you could of said what your goal was....but you didnt even get to that.

After seeing another "go play Melee" response, I deserve to slightly rant.

Goal is to make a deeper game. Not neccessarily more technical, just deeper and more open then Brawl.

 

[kupo15]

Anyone who says "go play melee" is very ignorant. You can't assume you know what brawl+ is like without playing it and also, you can chose what hacks you want.

I posted my code set and it feels like a more competitive brawl. It doesn't change the way you think it does. It is still brawl, but its more fun. And with these changes that makes it competitive but still brawl, in turn it makes it more technical in a way.

Idk about you, but i like not randomly tripping, i like being able to use moves i couldnt before, I like how CF is good again all because we added back the things Sakurai purposely took out to get rid of us.

Im done playing a glorified party game.

 

[kown]

TO CLARIFY THIS

no my problem with brawl+ is that its a wanna be melee game.. instead of just saying that heres my reasons why: IF melee and N64 never existed brawl would be an amazing game. By comparing brawl to melee and than changing the game to have the same techs as melee your trying to make it more like melee...its a wanna be melee game fact. I mean honestly no game would be better than melee so y dont we just go back to that game instead of trying to remake a different unique game?
And if your the type of person whose like brawl+ isnt a wanna be melee game (even with the fact that it is ) than heres my alternate solution for you:
As a lot of you guys claim brawl +, melee, and brawl are all separate games....why dont you guys just play the better one? or is the better one really brawl +. if you think that than im fine with you guys playing brawl +

 

[Phaigne]

i have a question, kupo. Do you think that maybe we will keep advancing the meta game of Brawl until it is as competitive as Melee. Like new ways to escape old tricks?

 

[kupo15]

Melee doesn't have Pit, or the new stages or the new characters.

About adding melee techs...your wrong.

Hit stun is in brawl..they just allow you to attack and air dodge during it
No tripping....is this even a tech let alone a melee one?
Shield stun is in brawl...its just really low
L canceling is in brawl....only some ppl have it

So how are we adding techs instead of tweaking them to where they should be? How are all of these "techs" melee techs since they all came from 64? And how is this a melee wanna be game if the changes we are making are techs from 64 that were perfected in melee? How is brawl+ not a more competitive version of brawl separate from melee?

i have a question, kupo. Do you think that maybe we will keep advancing the meta game of Brawl until it is as competitive as Melee. Like new ways to escape old tricks?

No, we have been questioning for months if the meta game has stopped and what are the only things we see, exploits in the way the controller is configured so we can pivot as we walk across the stage? You have to understand that brawl was made with the mindset to prevent breakthroughs in the metagame from happening. They stripped this game of everything competitive. They watered down all the aspects that make this game solid so that the skill gap is small.

You won't find anything that will make combos happen, you won't have a breakthrough to l cancel moves, you won't have a breakthrough to add shield stun and because of this, the game will still remain highly uncompetitive. Its only competitive because we make it competitive...but even then, the level of competitiveness in this game is atrocious.

I am really sorry to be the one to break it to you guys...but this game fails as a competitive smash game...

 

[Rogue Pit]

The bottom line is what happens next? What are you gonna do when the perfect version of Brawl minus comes out? It's gonna be the perfect game and be required for tournament play.
What happens when u get bored? What happens when more hacks come out to make it more "Competitive"
Your thinking for the present and not planning for a future. Brawl is always going to stay brawl but brawl minus is gonna be forever changing. You have your laughs, but unless it becomes tournament standards there's no point of ranting about it. And if it does, you couldn't possibly say nothing is gonna go wrong.

Besides that, what's gonna happen when something esle completely broken is found? More changes, more updates, more hacks, it's ****ing ridiculous, if you want to play a more "Competitive" game, than go play something esle. Don't change a game for your own personal enjoyment. I seriously wish some nerd didn't find the flaw in Twilight.

 

[leafgreen386]

no my problem with brawl+ is that its a wanna be melee game.. instead of just saying that heres my reasons why: IF melee and N64 never existed brawl would be an amazing game. By comparing brawl to melee and than changing the game to have the same techs as melee your trying to make it more like melee...its a wanna be melee game fact. I mean honestly no game would be better than melee so y dont we just go back to that game instead of trying to remake a different unique game? As a lot of you guys claim brawl +, melee, and brawl are all separate games....why dont you guys just play the better one? or is the better one really brawl +. if you think that than im fine with you guys playing brawl +

@bolded: I lol'd. Hard. Brawl is not a good game, and it's far from "amazing." To quote Renth: " Super Smash Brothers Brawl is like watching ******** kids throw snowballs at the sun." It doesn't take long to lose interest in it.

However, there are some things we like about brawl. It lays a good framework with its characters, stages, and especially the addition of online. It follows a similar formula to the other smash bros games, but it lacks several key aspects. Brawl+ is designed to change these flawed game mechanics to be more favorable to fans of the other smash games, while still keeping it a different game. Sure, we might love melee, but what's so wrong with playing both melee and brawl+? Or why not throw in smash 64 on there, too?

Oh, and you'll be so kind to give us permission if we really want to make brawl+ the best game!? You would really be fine with it!? THANK YOU SO MUCH! We really needed to get your approval... uh... name... name... name... oh! kown! Yes, we really needed to get your approval, kown, for this to be made a success!

Besides that, what's gonna happen when something esle completely broken is found? More changes, more updates, more hacks, it's ****ing ridiculous, if you want to play a more "Competitive" game, than go play something esle. Don't change a game for your own personal enjoyment. I seriously wish some nerd didn't find the flaw in Twilight.

Wait, you're complaining because we might have to fix something broken? And that would be a bad thing? And who are you to say we can't change a game for our own personal enjoyment? You already do that by changing the setting from time to stock in brawl and turning items off. This is just making edits that aren't normally available to players.

 

[kupo15]

The bottom line is what happens next? What are you gonna do when the perfect version of Brawl minus comes out? It's gonna be the perfect game and be required for tournament play.
What happens when u get bored? What happens when more hacks come out to make it more "Competitive"
Your thinking for the present and not planning for a future. Brawl is always going to stay brawl but brawl minus is gonna be forever changing. You have your laughs, but unless it becomes tournament standards there's no point of ranting about it. And if it does, you couldn't possibly say nothing is gonna go wrong.

Besides that, what's gonna happen when something esle completely broken is found? More changes, more updates, more hacks, it's ****ing ridiculous, if you want to play a more "Competitive" game, than go play something esle. Don't change a game for your own personal enjoyment. I seriously wish some nerd didn't find the flaw in Twilight.

Rogue, i see where you are coming from, but its wrong. This game doesn't need a huge overhaul, it just needs its already ill functioning mechanics to be work again. It will take testing but we are not adding anything that is not already there. If something is "broken" which I doubt will happen, then its just a small change. But even then, I doubt anything will be prematurely official without extensive tested and all of the codes at the ready.

Rogue, you just had a bad exp because you played with Wavedashing. IMO you would have a better time with my code set since brawl doesn't change that much. You just can use more moves and the combos you think of are reality

Phaign, I edited my last post for you

 

[kown]

@bolded: I lol'd. Hard. Brawl is not a good game, and it's far from "amazing." To quote Renth: " Super Smash Brothers Brawl is like watching ******** kids throw snowballs at the sun." It doesn't take long to lose interest in it.

Sure, we might love melee, but what's so wrong with playing both melee and brawl+? Or why not throw in smash 64 on there, too?

Oh, and you'll be so kind to give us permission if we really want to make brawl+ the best game!? You would really be fine with it!? THANK YOU SO MUCH! We really needed to get your approval... uh... name... name... name... oh! kown! Yes, we really needed to get your approval, kown, for this to be made a success!

honestly brawl would be a good game if melee and n64 werent there.. tho thats not possible and i was stating that ppl are comparing it to a better ( my opinion) game...melee.
i never said u needed my approval and your being a douche in your post. im just giving you some reasons to why u should just play melee because its the better game. i mean occasionally i will play a game thats not as fun as melee but in the end i will devote most of my competitive time to melee if the popular competitive scene were to change from brawl to melee.
at the current momemnt all my competitive time is spent in brawl because it is the popluar game..i have no problem in changing.

and so i go back to my orginal statement:
my problem with brawl+ is that its a wanna be melee game.. instead of just saying that heres my reasons why: IF melee and N64 never existed brawl would be an amazing game. By comparing brawl to melee and than changing the game to have the same techs as melee your trying to make it more like melee...its a wanna be melee game fact. I mean honestly no game would be better than melee so y dont we just go back to that game instead of trying to remake a different unique game?
And if your the type of person whose like brawl+ isnt a wanna be melee game (even with the fact that it is ) than heres my alternate solution for you:
As a lot of you guys claim brawl +, melee, and brawl are all separate games....why dont you guys just play the better one? or is the better one really brawl +. if you think that than im fine with you guys playing brawl +

 

[kupo15]

I mean honestly no game would be better than melee so y dont we just go back to that game instead of trying to remake a different unique game?

Because we can? And we are not remaking it. We are fixing the broken mechanics. You obviously didn't see my post

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6082710&postcount=47

 

[Wind Owl]

lol wow, how many of these debates are there?

>.>

*flies away back to the Melee boards*

 

[Phaigne]

i don't want to debate this. i think it's dumb. I personally like both Melee and Brawl and would even give Brawl+ a try. I think we just need to accept this difference and try to make both games as enjoyable as possible. I don't think Brawl's meta game is dead, personally. And I respect what you guys are trying to do with Brawl+, especially you kupo, you make Brawl+ sound good. But debating this is like debating whether cookies or cake is better. It's all opinion.

 

[kupo15]

yea, there was a point in time where i accepted both games equally, but now brawl+ is serious competition for brawl and I just can't go back.

Brawl+ is incredibly fun. I know its not pit...sorry, ill get back into pit when my experimenting is done..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-J-2cKJ2Tw&feature=channel_page

The ike is...ok btw..

 

[kown]

But debating this is like debating whether cookies or cake is better. It's all opinion.

yea and brawl + would be cookie cake.

 

[Doctor X]

Maybe you should do some research before making outlandish claims

www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6059110&postcount=197
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6056443&postcount=194
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6039757&postcount=64

Wow. Are you serious? MookieRah saying what basically amounts to "holy crap Brawl+ is awesome" is proof of and One Brawl+ tournament suddenly means it could have an entire scene?

I've done research. The logistics of needing hacked setups that are all consistent when players can modify the game to suit their needs. Even if you set a standard, it would put quite a bit of faith in the honor system which, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't really work.

Entry into the scene would require a player to be both willing and able-- and lets face it, there are people who are afraid to click "ok" on Windows Update in this world-- to properly apply hacks to their console. Hacks that void your warranty and can brick your system.

Plus Nintendo themselves struggle daily to shut down the homebrew channel and hacks like Brawl+ with it. Instead of having professional organizations to sponsor players and set up leagues, you'd have a multi-billion dollar corporation actively pursuing the destruction of this community.

How do you honestly see this working? Ever? Do you think this would really be worth all the struggling that would go with it? Wouldn't it be easier to just not play Brawl in any form, and try playing a game more suited to widespread competition?

Yea ok. So with l canceling, characters can actually moves they couldn't use before due to lag. Because of hit stun, MK isn't the only one who can combo, because of shield stun, characters can use their moves the way its suppose to be and use moves more effectively than they could. And you say this doesn't create balance and its only what we want in the game.....

Who decides this kind of thing? Really? Melee had all these things, and the top tiers were even more dominant. Go look at tournament results, really... I mean did you even play Melee?

Have fun losing or almost losing a worse player who picks up MK for an hour even though youve played pit for months. Have fun playing a game where the only "combos" are CG and infinite CG where you can't escape on your own. Have fun will grab release infinites and bouncing on the ground from lasers and jabs and icicles.

Johns. You must realize that's what this is.

Also SDI escapes every infinite except for grabs. Every single one. Did somebody jablock you in tournament and you didn't think to press your sticks at all?

Wow, brawl has brainwashed all of you....

We're not the ones going to great lengths to continue playing it even though we don't like it. Really, the only reason you have to stick with Brawl is characters and stages. Yes, characters and stages. In other words, aesthetics. Superficial features. Fanboy fodder. You call us brainwashed? At least we have the sense to not play a bad game for no good reason.

 

[kown]

Dr.X keeps it real...it seems like you have already had this debate with some other people who wanted brawl +....i wonder what som responses will be.

 

[teh_pwns_the]

oh and back to wingdashing which is a glitch because the only reason its a safe bet is because when pits feet touch ground right after WoI he refreshes which is a glitch and Wingdashing would be awful if as soon as you got hit out of it you had no more jumps, or if you accidentally messed it up you had nor more jumps.

Kupo i know you are defending something you believe in and that means its very unlikely that you are gonna change your mind just cause some kid you think is stupid is telling you why its silly to try to "fix" your own game

I love brawl the way it is and the only possible changes i would like to see is MK get nerfed and Link and CF get buffed

 

[kupo15]

oh and back to wingdashing which is a glitch because the only reason its a safe bet is because when pits feet touch ground right after WoI he refreshes which is a glitch and Wingdashing would be awful if as soon as you got hit out of it you had no more jumps, or if you accidentally messed it up you had nor more jumps.

Kupo i know you are defending something you believe in and that means its very unlikely that you are gonna change your mind just cause some kid you think is stupid is telling you why its silly to try to "fix" your own game

I love brawl the way it is and the only possible changes i would like to see is MK get nerfed and Link and CF get buffed

Well, wingdashing itself isn't a glitch. I think you may be talking about wing refresh which idk if that is a glitch. I don't think it is because the game registers you as touching the ground and everyone has this through ISJR but im not sure. The only thing I can think of that is a glitch for pit is ART.

Im not trying to change anyones mind. I just have an opinion and I was trying to "defend" myself from your comment about changing for the worse. Can I have fun with brawl? Yes. But I have more fun with brawl+...is that so terrible? Do I like pit? Yes. Can I be interested in other characters even if they are high tier? Yes.

I find it funny how if a brawl hater comes in, the response is, "go play melee." And then when someone who likes brawl but plays brawl+ voices flaws in the game, the response is "go play melee." But the thing is, I don't want to play melee. I want to play brawl, but I want it to be more competitive. Why is that the response for ppl like me is "go play melee" when I not comparing brawl to melee? Im playing basically the same game except its more competitive.

Idk why you guys care about what we like and how it "will never become tourney standard" Who cares if it will become standard or not. Its what someone enjoys the most. Rogue made a post about pit in brawl+. That doesn't mean you guys have to go bash everyone who likes brawl+. If you don't do brawl+, then don't post and leave the people who like it alone. You make it sound like brawl+ is a plague or something lol

 

[CorruptFate]

I don't see what the big deal is about what a glitch is or not. I don't see how it matters if somthing is a glitch or exploit its the same thing in the end.

Doctor X said it right, Brawl + wont be nearly as competive as Brawl, EVER for a few reasons that kupo does know about.
1) It is much harder for new players to get into it.
2) It will be nearly impossable for people to get a bunch of rules that every1 will agree on
3) Many other (myself included) don't wanta hack our wii's for the simple reason of putting them at risk, X box made it so that if you mod your X box and go on line they will crash it. Now Wii hasn't done this but they have released patches that stop you from moding there games, so there is a very good chance that Wii will do the same thing at some point
4) It is not widly know about, such as Brawl is.

People who think Brawl is bad can't just go play a good game, can they? They have to try to *make* Brawl into a good game with silly, arbitrary, and impractical hacks. It can't be tournament standard. It can never be sponsored by any professional organization. It's not even necessarily more balanced, it just has some stuff in it that people like. Personally I think Brawl+ is an embarrassment to the community and does nothing but demonstrate our stubbornness when it comes to choosing what games we want to play.

5) it can't be sponsored

I say if kupo and others wanta play it in there spare time or even have small tournies and community of there own go for it, but they do (or at least should) know that even if it was the game everyone wanted it still isn't realistic.

 

[kupo15]

I say if kupo and others wanta play it in there spare time or even have small tournies and community of there own go for it, but they do (or at least should) know that even if it was the game everyone wanted it still isn't realistic.

I could care less if it was tourney standard tbh. it would be a plus if it did. I have more fun with it with my friends than brawl. Its more competitive than brawl for us and thats what matters.

 

[kown]

sweet it looks like we've come to the agreement that brawl + will always be less popular than brawl...Therefore making brawl a more popular game.

 

[Wind Owl]

Doctor X said it right, Brawl + wont be nearly as competive as Brawl, EVER for a few reasons that kupo does know about.
1) It is much harder for new players to get into it.
2) It will be nearly impossable for people to get a bunch of rules that every1 will agree on
3) Many other (myself included) don't wanta hack our wii's for the simple reason of putting them at risk, X box made it so that if you mod your X box and go on line they will crash it. Now Wii hasn't done this but they have released patches that stop you from moding there games, so there is a very good chance that Wii will do the same thing at some point
4) It is not widly know about, such as Brawl is.
5) it can't be sponsored

I'm not going to stay here long, but how... "competive" a game is is not determined by its playerbase. One could argue (but I won't because, it's a waste of time) that Brawl is not a competitive game at all, but that certain elements of Brawl+ make Brawl more competetive, despite the fact that very very few people play it. Just because it's not popular doesn't mean it's not competitive, and in fact, it could mean the exact opposite (look at Brawl vs. Melee popularity, but again, I won't get into that).

EDIT: I also love that, like many threads throughout Smashboards, someone tries to make a constructive thread about an element of Brawl+ (in this case Pit's gameplay) and of course it turns into a ****storm of
"looool brawl+ suxxx!"
"itlll nevar be competive standerrddd!"
"durrr haxx are teh devil!"
"just ply meleeeee LOL!"

Grow up, people. Seriously.

 

[Doctor X]

Grow up, people. Seriously.

Don't try to belittle people by changing their words. You know **** well I (as well as most people here) have been more than articulate enough to be considered "grown up."

That being said, play whatever you want, just understand that competition lives and dies with the community. Smash simply would not be what it is today without FC, MLG, or smashboards, and none of these things would exist if nobody played smash.

EDIT:

I could care less if it was tourney standard tbh. it would be a plus if it did. I have more fun with it with my friends than brawl. Its more competitive than brawl for us and thats what matters.

I will also note the irony of this. You want it to be more competitive and you call Brawl a "party game," but your priorities lie in "having fun" and "with your friends."

I don't mean to assault your motives so much, but really, that's kind of where the problem with the whole Brawl+ "movement" lies.

 

[Wind Owl]

Don't try to belittle people by changing their words. You know **** well I (as well as most people here) have been more than articulate enough to be considered "grown up."

Fair enough, I suppose that was slightly out of line. I'm just pretty sick of how people have to criticize the hack itself rather than just letting people who enjoy it discuss a specific aspect of it. This thread SHOULD have been about Pit's capabilities in Brawl+ or even where people think he should lie in the Brawl+ tier list. Instead, people immediately start a completely uncalled-for debate (which has been done to death, mind you) about whether Brawl+ is a better game than Brawl, whether it will become a competitive standard, sometimes even whether it's "moral" to hack Brawl at all, and it often (as it has here) leads to ad hominem remarks such as, "just play Melee."

It's not like Brawl+ has its own subforum. Is it REALLY too much to ask of you Pit boarders to have ONE topic about Brawl+ and how it relates to Pit without everyone getting their panties in a bunch about the hack? That is what I meant by, "grow up."

EDIT: To be fair, you, Kupo, have pretty much catalyzed this whole debate instead of ignoring the irrelevant comments and just discussing Pit in Brawl+ (which you probably have a lot insight on, btw).

 

[Doctor X]

It's not like Brawl+ has its own subforum. Is it REALLY too much to ask of you Pit boarders to have ONE topic about Brawl+ and how it relates to Pit without everyone getting their panties in a bunch about the hack? That is what I meant by, "grow up."

You're making a lot of sense here. It's just a really tall order because changing a game to make it "better" is a naturally controversial issue. I mean... banning MK doesn't even require anybody to risk bricking their system, and you can see how heated that gets.

A subforum for Brawl+ may not be such a bad idea, to tell you the truth. The two sides of this argument are not going to play nice together.

 

[Wind Owl]

You're making a lot of sense here. It's just a really tall order because changing a game to make it "better" is a naturally controversial issue. I mean... banning MK doesn't even require anybody to risk bricking their system, and you can see how heated that gets.

I understand that, but this really isn't the topic to discuss it. I guess I don't have the right to dictate what people discuss, but it just seems like if Brawl+ advocates can't make topics like this, what can they do to further their metagame?

A subforum for Brawl+ may not be such a bad idea, to tell you the truth. The two sides of this argument are not going to play nice together.

Trust me, we've tried.

 

[CorruptFate]

I could care less if it was tourney standard tbh. it would be a plus if it did. I have more fun with it with my friends than brawl. Its more competitive than brawl for us and thats what matters.

Thats all that needs to be said, I have nothing wrong with you hacking your game to make it a better game for you, this has been done with games over and over so what makes smash any different?

Wind Owl is right in saying that the debate is pointless, and have been done to death. This isn't even the place for a debate about that, it should be a place so that those of you who do enjoy and play Brawl + to talk about how Pit plays in Brawl +.

 

[Wind Owl]

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[Rogue Pit]

Alright can this thread be closed, it should be discussed/debated in brawl general discussion. Frankly I'm embarrassed to be the starter of this thread. This doesn't pertain to be anything about Pit in Brawl, just people who are saying this.

Brawl is Bad, we found a way to hack. Let's change a game to make it better in the eyes of some people.

Than others saying, Let the game be the way, it's dumb to change mechanics.

And I'm done debating over this, It's senseless and I can guarantee noone's opinion will change so, if the beginning and the outcome are the same, no change is made. Let's stop this now, CorruptMod can you please close this thread.

LMAO didn't see this extra page.

 

[CorruptFate]

Its a place for people to talk about how Pit is/can/should be in brawl +, not Brawl + it self as long as people know that there is no reason to close it. But it is your thread, so I will let you close it if you want.

If someone else wants to make a thread about Pit in brawl + I will not close it, unless things get out of hand or somthing along those lines. Or if you want this reopened I will do that.