Pikachu's Next Tier Placement in June

[SSJ5Goku8932]

So what do you think will change for Pikachu in the next tier placement?

If there is already a thread for this, then close it please.

I think he is one of the few people who have hopes of going up high. The new Cg's are just the butter on the bread. Hopefully everyone can know that he can be a force without them.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think that pikachu is going into top 10. If we could lessen the marth matchup disadvantage, he'd go A-tier for sure.

 

[gallax]

we still are hurt by lucario and olimar and ROB and marth. plus the MK matchup will not change significantly. maybe top 10.

 

[Zylar]

I'm positive pika's out of B tier.
Speaking of which, they ought to go back to high, mid, low tiers again rather than letter tiers.

 

[KayLo!]

I think he'll at least go to B tier, but after the last tier list, I can't say for sure..... some of the choices they made seemed a little eh, although most of my disagreements were with the lower tiers.

The new CGs aren't going to change things much, imo. They're nice, but they're situational and won't auto-win anything or even significantly change how we play certain matchups.... they just give Pika new (and pretty sweet) options if you happen to get the grab.

More important than that, I think, is the fact that we have better strategies against characters that used to give us a lot of trouble, ex: MK, Diddy, Olimar, Falco. When it's all said and done, Pika has no counters except for MK & Marth (ROB & G&W are hard but can be dealt with), which says a lot about his overall value as a character. And as far as MK goes, we still do a lot better versus him than many other characters do.

So, yeah, I kinda like being captain of the C squad, but I think he might go up one or two spots.... mayyybe more, but I try not to get my hopes up.

 

[gallax]

i would rather fight an MK right now than a ROB. i think our only TRUE counter is marth. and i doubt that will ever change. especially when there are rumors of a marth cg on pika that goes up to 60%. even though i tested out everything i could think of and cannot see where that number came from.

 

[Ussi]

I would happily fight ROB over MK. I find ROB fairly easy.

 

[Zylar]

Especially when there are rumors of a marth cg on pika that goes up to 60%..

Terrifying thought.

I agree with Klo and galax. Besides, pika has always been at just the right spot for me.
Not too high, but no where near bottom.

I don't have enough experience vs either ROB or MK, so I don't know which one is harder for me. :/

 

[J4pu]

well imo I actually hope he doesn't go up too far, counter-intuitive I know right?

well here's the reason, I picked up falco before he got major rep (at least where I live, SoCal) then people realized how "broken" he was and more people picked him up which meant more people had experience fighting him which means you have a harder time winning.

It's kind of a double-edged sword trading surprise for a quicker growing metagame.

I picked up Pika before these CG's were found btw, you can see me asking for the Pika-IC match-up in multiple sticky threads a month or two back because IC's **** falco.

 

[Ussi]

lol ICs so far have a small ad on Pikachu. You have to plank the entire match (Watch Anther vs Lain loool its sooo.... planky)

The best CP against an IC is IC themselves.

On topic:

Pikachu won't move a bit. He'll remain 12th since his metagame got better enough to not drop. other people will shift around.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

I think he'll at least go to B tier, but after the last tier list, I can't say for sure..... some of the choices they made seemed a little eh, although most of my disagreements were with the lower tiers.

The new CGs aren't going to change things much, imo. They're nice, but they're situational and won't auto-win anything or even significantly change how we play certain matchups.... they just give Pika new (and pretty sweet) options if you happen to get the grab.

More important than that, I think, is the fact that we have better strategies against characters that used to give us a lot of trouble, ex: MK, Diddy, Olimar, Falco. When it's all said and done, Pika has no counters except for MK & Marth (ROB & G&W are hard but can be dealt with), which says a lot about his overall value as a character. And as far as MK goes, we still do a lot better versus him than many other characters do.

So, yeah, I kinda like being captain of the C squad, but I think he might go up one or two spots.... mayyybe more, but I try not to get my hopes up.

True, but we have not found all the possiblities with the Cg's yet, so expect some shocking things to be discovered. Pikachu also seems to be A material without the Cg's, because of Anther showing off his mad skilz.

He probaly needs to move up a spot or 2 to me.

 

[Zylar]

One person can't change pika's tier position.

But other than that, I agree. There is still have some time before the list comes out.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

when did olimar ever pose a big problem to pika? O.o but yeah pika is moving up.

 

[J4pu]

i thought olimar posed a threat to anyone that didn't have a reliable way to gimp him or a tornado to break through every single one of his attacks.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

that matchup is maybe 55-45 olimar. pikachu can gimp olimar, maybe not reliably but pikachu has the tools to get inside olimar and do some damage. uair works fantastically on them.

 

[KayLo!]

Pikachu also seems to be A material without the Cg's, because of Anther showing off his mad skilz.

Anther's been doing that since the beginning, lol. Although we do have slightly more top-placing Pikas than we did before, I believe.... or maybe I just notice them more since we have the tourney results thread now.

Anyway, one or two spots sounds likely to me. I doubt it'll be any more than that, if he even moves up at all.

 

[Roller]

I don't understand why people care so much about Pika moving up on the tier list.
All it is, is a somewhat arbitrary list based primarily on tourney results; which don't even take into account the number of sed character in the playfield. For instance. MKs win waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more tournaments than pikas. But if you took into account the number of total MK players and the total number of pikas. The difference between the two would not even be close to what it is now.
And it's not like the tier list does anything to help you establish your good/bad matchups, or even what will be in your area's metagame. It really doesn't provide you with much usefull information at all.
A character's placement on it. Be it high or low. Is no more important than the list itself. And since the list doesn't really do anything.. ya.
You know what would happen if pika moved up on the list? The ONLY thing that would happen. The ONLY thing that would change is that more people would wind up preparing better for the pikachu matchup. Which would be bad news for us.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

they ought to go back to high, mid, low tiers again rather than letter tiers.

Why?

There's room for Pikachu going up a couple spots. But A Tier is an ambitious goal. I doubt it'll be more then 2 spots. That's if he moves up at all. I think he may even be in the right place already. There'll be no meteoric rise or fall for Pika is my only prediction.

 

[J4pu]

@rollerking, it may be hard to see in brawl's tier list but a tier list is the character with the most potential when taking into account that humans are not perfect. In the melee tier list fox was top tier but Marth had better tournament results

As I already stated in my post earlier being high/top tier is a double-edged sword, your metagame advances quicker because more people are playing the character and figuring stuff out but more people become used to the match-up and it becomes harder to win.

Do you really think people would have figured out IDC so early if MK did not have so many people playing him? granted it ended up being useless because it got banned but that's just an example of how having more people playing gives rise to new things more quickly.

 

[gallax]

personally the reason i am interested in pikas placement on the tier list has nothing to do with braggin rights. i am excited cuz it means that the smash community is noticing all the work the pika community has done to excel the pika meta game and by placing us higher is shows that people realize how hard we have worked and how much we have figured out. its a recognition thing rollerking. it means people actually care what we have done for pika.

10moretierlists

 

[PikaPika!]

Why's it matter what people rank him as?

 

[The Truth!]

Yeah I dont really like this thread. No offense to its creator.

 

[gallax]

you know it just dawned on me that you guys really dont want to be placed higher cuz that would mean more competition for pika. it means that you are SCARED of having to play someone who knows about the pika matchup with their character.

go ahead. be scared and dont mention pika at all of tier placements. that doesnt mean we are not going to move up on the list. it means that you all have not accepted the fact that you are going to have to work harder if you want to win.

and you do want to win right? you do want to be the best? wdo you wannt win a tourney cuz everyone was like "i rarely play pika."

i welcome the competition. bring it. the only way to be the best, is to play the best. and the best are not the ones who do not know the matchup. if i win a tourney as MK, i would be so proud because everyone is forced to know that matchup well. and because of that, it must mean that my MK would have had to have been exceptional compared to the rest of the field and i must have played great because i beat opponents who knew the matchup against my character. the same would go for pika. bring on the competition. i am not scared. i am excited. lets see how good pika really is now.

we are pika. pika is an amazing character and we as a community have worked so hard to excel the meta-game. we should move up in tier list. and when we do I WILL BE PROUD of it it. i will be proud of everyone who helped, especially those who have placed well in tournaments and/or have writted guides and/or researched pikas moveset and so forth.

you all can talk about how good pika is but when it comes to it, you want people to thing he is bad.

 

[King~]

imma tier ***** thats why i care*snicker*


no but seriously one or two spots isnt unreasonable, i dont have to worry about people not knowing the pika matchup in the midwest hehe

 

[Nicholas1024]

you know it just dawned on me that you guys really dont want to be placed higher cuz that would mean more competition for pika. it means that you are SCARED of having to play someone who knows about the pika matchup with their character.

go ahead. be scared and dont mention pika at all of tier placements. that doesnt mean we are not going to move up on the list. it means that you all have not accepted the fact that you are going to have to work harder if you want to win.

and you do want to win right? you do want to be the best? wdo you wannt win a tourney cuz everyone was like "i rarely play pika."

i welcome the competition. bring it. the only way to be the best, is to play the best. and the best are not the ones who do not know the matchup. if i win a tourney as MK, i would be so proud because everyone is forced to know that matchup well. and because of that, it must mean that my MK would have had to have been exceptional compared to the rest of the field and i must have played great because i beat opponents who knew the matchup against my character. the same would go for pika. bring on the competition. i am not scared. i am excited. lets see how good pika really is now.

we are pika. pika is an amazing character and we as a community have worked so hard to excel the meta-game. we should move up in tier list. and when we do I WILL BE PROUD of it it. i will be proud of everyone who helped, especially those who have placed well in tournaments and/or have writted guides and/or researched pikas moveset and so forth.

you all can talk about how good pika is but when it comes to it, you want people to thing he is bad.

Right on! **Applauds** I don't care if they learn the matchup better, the best thing is to beat them in spite of them knowing the matchup inside and out. That's TRUE victory.

 

[J4pu]

it sounds as if you are talking about honor or something, that doesn't exist in competitive smash fyi.
a true victory is when the round ends you have a number 1 under your name.

 

[gallax]

and then once you go to a tournament where you payed more money to get into and you get knocked out first round b/c you actually played someone who knows the matchup and you rarely do play someone who knows the matcuhp that now you are at a disadvantage and get knocked out, i will laugh.

 

[Ussi]

he's just stating honor doesn't exist in America Smash. (Cause it does in Japan). otherwise we'd have MK banned already. And prehaps even more characters and tactics.

 

[J4pu]

I never said to avoid getting experience against people who know the match-up, where did that idea pop into your head from?
You want to be the best pika you can be, that's a given, get as much practice against all the best players that already know the match-up, perfect. What I actually said/meant was that going up on the tier list is in no way advantageous to you winning in any way, it just means more hard fights (then you/nicholas come and say that's a "true" win) which means you have a harder time winning. Winning is winning, there is no true win when you play somebody with more experience.

I live in Socal, I play all the best people at nearly every tournament I attend so I'm not worried about playing scrubs and then all of a sudden getting ***** at a large scale tournament, DSF DEHF Fiction all appear at >50% of the tourneys i go to

if you look back to the first page of this thread you will find I mentioned the only good thing that comes out of more representation is quicker advancement of the metagame.

you're proud of yourself and other pikas for discovering a new tech, congrats, have fun losing more often. I'd take winning with a low tier character over advancing a low tier tier to high tier and then losing any day.

Am I saying you should be upset this was discovered? no, not really, I'm just saying when you really think about it the increase in pika rep isn't all that helpful.

I'm gunna rephrase it so you don't misinterprete this:
new techs are helpful; moving up on the tier list > more representation is hurtful.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I dont' play Pikachu but I hope you move up because I like to root for the underdog. Also I play ZSS and I'm really glad I can't be chaingrabbed right now.

 

[Zylar]

Umm, don't you consider, Captain Falcon, or other chars that aren't tourny viable to be underdogs rather than pika?

 

[KayLo!]

Whether or not you support/agree with the tier list, you can still speculate where Pika will end up on it, lol. If you don't like this thread, just ignore it and don't post in it.

Personally, I don't really care whether Pika rises or falls.... there are pros and cons either way (as someone mentioned before). I'll be happy if he rises, because I do think it would be beneficial to his metagame; however, if he stays the same (or falls, which I think is very unlikely), I definitely won't be crying about it.

The majority of us are going to continue playing him either way, amirite?

 

[The Truth!]

I just feel like we're the sonics discussing tier placement and what should or ought to happen.

 

[KayLo!]

I took it as a thread to say what we think will happen.... realistically, none of us are SBR members. None of us know what will happen or have any say in it. We can still discuss, though; that's what the boards are for.

 

[OmegaXF]

new techs are helpful; moving up on the tier list > more representation is hurtful.

Very true.

 

[KuroKitt10]

Personally, I don't like winning by technicalities. I don't play competitive games simply because the win is important to me. I play competitive games because I love the competition; go figure.

I don't find any fun in winning if all I did was tjolt spam all day against an opponent who doesn't know how to punish. The games that I actually enjoy - whether I win or not! - are the games where both players were playing exceptional, and it was on the wire the entire time. It's this tension, and this challenge that I really like. If my opponent isn't playing at their best, then I'm not having fun.

This is why I welcome a little more recognition for the 'chu. It'll mean more people will be prepared for me, and it'll mean I'll have more of a challenge. For me, that's a good thing.

Also, as Galax said, it is nice to see that our efforts to improve the pika-game have actually been recognized by the community as a whole =)

Me-ow!

 

[J4pu]

don't get me wrong, I like the competitive feel of a close game too, but moreso in friendlies than in tournament/moneymatch

 

[Zajice]

I think he'll at least get into B-tier. He's close enough to it already at the top of C-tier. The only thing that could be stopping him is that a lot of people above him have big advantages, but these new CGs that only seem to be getting better could help out with that.

The CGs probably won't have a huge effect on the tiers unless something majorly EPIC is found. Like a 0 - death that works on a large majority of the cast. Over all, I doubt he'll be going far from where he is now.

 

[Spelt]

I really hope he doesn't go up too much.
I would like pikachu to always stay in the middles...

 

[Ussi]

Pikachu won't move. All these CGs did is shuffle the positions of those above him.