Petitioning Nintendo: Develop a Gamecube controller style Wii U controller

[Priap0s]

I think that if they did release a "gamecube pro controller" it would probably be a limited release much like the Kongo drums or nes gameboys which is perfectly cool IMO. I get why the wii pro controller exists (its an easy switch from the gamepad) but it still doesn't take away the impact that the gamecube controller had as what I feel is the definitive traditional experience. Anyone who got this controller would probably purchase it to replace the wii pro.

I agree, the thing I am talking about is more from Nintendos perspective. The ones that would buy this new g-cube controller would buy a wii u pro controller instead if it didn't exist. I don't think it would add much sales at all. Even if it sold alot, that would probably take away form the WiiU pro controllers sales. I'm not debating that people would like one, I'd like one myself. It's just not a big deal to me and I think it will be fine adapting to the new one

 

[8-peacock-8]

 

[himemiya]

You know what would be better? A petition for wired controllers.

Yes there should be an petition for wiiu's with gc plug-ins. That would be beneficial.

 

[himemiya]

You know what would be better? A petition for wired controllers.

Yes there should be an petition for wiiu's with gc plug-ins. That would be beneficial.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ P
You take yourself wayyyyy too seriously, as well as all my comments as insults. Calm down sunnnnn.

As for the gamecube controller? I would love for it to happen, but at the same time, we should all prepare to adapt as well. Just in case.

And it won't be bad if we have to adapt. I learned to play with the Wii-Mote and Nunchuck when friends didn't have enough GC controllers. Playing Brawl effectively is certainly doable and while clumsy at first, feels almost as natural as a GC controller after a while. I'm not saying that the GC controller isn't the best controller for smash (so far it is), but moving to another controller isn't nearly as bad as some people are saying it to be.

It will be bad to adapt if we don't have wired controllers, because any lag is bad lag in competitive play. That and all the frequency crossing will inevitably make 100+ entrant tournaments hard to deal with, especially if a tournament has both Smash WiiU and Smash 3DS (at least the 3DS is designed for such play).

Still, hopefully by "adapt" we can "adapt" with a new 1st, 3rd, or fan-made GameCube wired controller successor (if Nintendo doesn't capitalize on it, they can lose millions of potential revenue), and until then, we have the GameCube adapters.

As for the new controller, eh, devolving to a worse controller just doesn't make sense. But then again, Nintendo's WiiU strategy (8 months of nothing), region-locking (apparently Nintendo hasn't realized that Sony and Microsoft kick their faces in at this regard), the WiiU's laughable memory amount (my Xbox 360 has more, and it's an original model!), or the WiiU's pitiful RAM amount (2GB compared to the PS4's and Xbox One's 8GB).

But eh, hopefully they'll stop being stupid. And if they don't stop being stupid, they'll be extinct.

Really, Nintendo should be the ones to "adapt," not us folks who love the GameCube controller, and want an updated model. After all, Sony and Microsoft "adapt" by continually upgrading their traditional (joystick) controllers, even if initially said models were bad (the original Xbox controller stank; they upgraded it not too long afterwards, and since then, it has been a solid controller).

 

[Chiroz]

@ P
You take yourself wayyyyy too seriously, as well as all my comments as insults. Calm down sunnnnn.




It will be bad to adapt if we don't have wired controllers, because any lag is bad lag in competitive play. That and all the frequency crossing will inevitably make 100+ entrant tournaments hard to deal with, especially if a tournament has both Smash WiiU and Smash 3DS (at least the 3DS is designed for such play).


Still, hopefully by "adapt" we can "adapt" with a new 1st, 3rd, or fan-made GameCube wired controller successor (if Nintendo doesn't capitalize on it, they can lose millions of potential revenue), and until then, we have the GameCube adapters.


As for the new controller, eh, devolving to a worse controller just doesn't make sense. But then again, Nintendo's WiiU strategy (8 months of nothing), region-locking (apparently Nintendo hasn't realized that Sony and Microsoft kick their faces in at this regard), the WiiU's laughable memory amount (my Xbox 360 has more, and it's an original model!), or the WiiU's pitiful RAM amount (2GB compared to the PS4's and Xbox One's 8GB).


But eh, hopefully they'll stop being stupid. And if they don't stop being stupid, they'll be extinct.


Really, Nintendo should be the ones to "adapt," not us folks who love the GameCube controller, and want an updated model. After all, Sony and Microsoft "adapt" by continually upgrading their traditional (joystick) controllers, even if initially said models were bad (the original Xbox controller stank; they upgraded it not too long afterwards, and since then, it has been a solid controller).

You talk about the fact that you can't adapt to wireless controls, yet you are willing to get an adapter that adds about 5-10 times the lag the wireless does (and is also still wireless!) just so that you don't have to learn a new type of controller.

No third party will be able to make a wired controller until Nintendo updates their software to support wired signals. So no one will be jumping on these "millions" until Nintendo purposely allows them to, which I doubt will happen unless Nintendo themselves decides they want to make a wired controller.

Last but not least, as I said before I already signed the petition, I am all for everyone being able to play just the way they want to but saying the Wii U Pro is worse for Smash is not correct.

Preferring the GC, preferring the Stick or Button Layout or thinking the GCC controller is more comfortable are all opinions, subjective data if you will. I can objectively prove how the Wii U Pro is superior in terms of input speed and efficiency for Smash specifically.

I can prove how, by modifying the control setup (which you could do in Brawl), you can actually get a much better controller which can do things impossible to do in the GC without sacrificing the ability to do something else.

This debate has gotten me to think about making a thread about it actually...

 

[Johnknight1]

Well Nintendo's lack of wired controllers shows how outdated they are, as Sony and Microsoft show. That and their decisions to not reverse such policies as wired controllers, having an actual hard drive, and having a standard issue traditional controller that goes from one generation to the next.

Boy, this is looking more and more like the GameCube era for Nintendo, except instead of the console being ridiculously underrated, the console being outdated (well, the GameCube was that, too; the fact only about 3 games had online was pitiful), out gunned in terms of technological features (lol 2GB of RAM), and not all that intuitive.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Well Nintendo's lack of wired controllers shows how outdated they are, as Sony and Microsoft show.

That doesn't make any sense at all. If Nintendo was truly outdated there wouldn't be any wireless controllers.

 

[Chiroz]

That doesn't make any sense at all. If Nintendo was truly outdated there wouldn't be any wireless controllers.

I think he means outdated with the hardcore gaming communities, which prefer wired controllers, at least as an option.

 

[Wario Bros.]

I think he means outdated with the hardcore gaming communities, which prefer wired controllers, at least as an option.

Then he should've used a word other than "outdated".

 

[Chiroz]

I would like everyone who thinks the GCC is superior to the Wii U Pro for playing Super Smash Brothers specifically to give me an outline or a summary of why they think it is.

I will make a thread explaining why the Wii U Pro is superior objectively and I would like to adress any and all concerns people might have.

Note: I will only take into account objective claims. Things like "it is more comfortable" will not be adressed as that is subjective and I cannot prove opinions.

 

[Wario Bros.]

I find it odd that the OP hasn't literally posted anything else other than that first post. So I'm starting to think he joined SOLELY for this petition. I hope that isn't the case as he'd look pretty bad to me if he did.

 

[Johnknight1]

Then he should've used a word other than "outdated".

No, they're outdated because Xbox and PlayStation controllers can be both wired and wireless, which doesn't rely on batteries nearly as much, and is more adaptable to what gamers want and whatever environment gamers play in (whether areas with a lot of wireless devices or an area where they want to use a wireless controller).

The fact Nintendo is taking the "one way or another" approach shows how "outdated" they are. And yes, "outdated" is the right word.

Just like how "outdated" describes their region-locking policies, "outdated" describes how some people at Nintendo of America tried to get Melee removed from Evo (and beforehand essentially got Brawl removed from MLG), how weak the WiiU's RAM is compared to the competition (8GB > 2GB), and how the lack of a real hard drive (other than to store updates for a console that was clearly released a year to early) for the WiiU.

 

[Vkrm]

I would like everyone who thinks the GCC is superior to the Wii U Pro for playing Super Smash Brothers specifically to give me an outline or a summary of why they think it is.

I will make a thread explaining why the Wii U Pro is superior objectively and I would like to adress any and all concerns people might have.

Note: I will only take into account objective claims. Things like "it is more comfortable" will not be adressed as that is subjective and I cannot prove opinions.

Pretty sure the GC shoulder buttons are more responsive. The joystick is for sure. I've been told that the GC joystick can differentiate over 50,000 different inputs. It matters more than most would think. Hax's waveland edgestall requires really specific positioning.

 

[Chiroz]

Pretty sure the GC shoulder buttons are more responsive. The joystick is for sure. I've been told that the GC joystick can differentiate over 50,000 different inputs. It matters more than most would think. Hax's waveland edgestall requires really specific positioning.

Thanks, both points pretty easy to adress.

I am very, very confident that the Wii U Pro Control Stick is much more responsive. In fact it is so responsive that most ported games have a huge deadzone in order to avoid reprogramming of these games for the additional inputs.

If you have a Wii U Pro, connect it to your PC and play Melee on an emulator you will see just how much more responsive it is.

The GC shoulder buttons are analog while the Wii U Pro are digital, this doesn't equate to responsive. In fact no input except for movement or directionality in Smash is analog (shielding was, but it was removed in Brawl), not even jumping/short hopping which is based on input speed and not pressure.

There is not a single input in Smash that can be placed on the GC controller that will make use of the analog so unless you don't like clicking feels (which is a subjective approach) there is nothing superior to having this analog shoulder buttons.

Yet, because of how the adapters work (the GC controller is read as a CCP controller) I am willing to bet (this I don't have the information on me, so I might be wrong) that in order to actually shield you would have to press the button all the way down, which in term makes it less efficient and more awkward (but awkwardness is also subjective).

I'll make the thread in a few hours.

 

[smashmachine]

if Nintendo had a wired controller there wouldn't be much need for the Gamecube controller

That doesn't make any sense at all. If Nintendo was truly outdated there wouldn't be any wireless controllers.

Sony/MS have both, Nintendo does not
it's pretty simple

 

[nessokman]

'But hey, if you think you are smarter then everyone else, then keep up and "preach." It's cute watching people who think they speak on the behalf of everyone not know how silly they are. It is always funny watching random newcomers from Nintendo fandumb fanboy sites talk to me like I don't know diddly squat.'​

I can't help but point out that this is exactly what you're doing. The only credibility you hold is that you're a businessman, but that doesn't change that you're looking at the situation subjectively and then claiming things such as 'True facts: Most smash players play with the GameCube controller'.​

Personally, I would love to be able to use a wired, gamecube controller for the wii u. I grew up with the gamecube (and n64, but i mostly watched my older brother play until the gamecube came out) and i can't stand it when I'm forced to play smash on a wiimote or classic controller when there's no other option available. However I happen to have a lot of friends that are casual smash players as well (did that catch you off-guard?) and most of them prefer using wiimote + nunchuck because it's the control scheme that they are most familiar with, as most of them never owned a nintendo console until the wii came out. Your personal experiences does not make your opinion an undeniable fact, and neither do mine. So with all of these personal experiences floating around, all that remains is speculation, and as a business man I'd hope that you don't make decisions based on speculation. I wish it was a pure fact, because I would personally enjoy the living crap out of smash 4 if I got to use a 1st party, wired gamecube controller, but it doesn't seem to be a viable or realistic option. ​

Now, with all of that said, can anyone confirm if this gamecube attachment will be consistent with all games? I.e. does nintendo need to manually support the option or can I juust automatically set up which buttons sink with which and play smash bros on a gamecube controller willy-nilly?​

Quoted for truth

 

[Big-Cat]

No, they're outdated because Xbox and PlayStation controllers can be both wired and wireless, which doesn't rely on batteries nearly as much, and is more adaptable to what gamers want and whatever environment gamers play in (whether areas with a lot of wireless devices or an area where they want to use a wireless controller).

The fact Nintendo is taking the "one way or another" approach shows how "outdated" they are. And yes, "outdated" is the right word.

Just like how "outdated" describes their region-locking policies, "outdated" describes how some people at Nintendo of America tried to get Melee removed from Evo (and beforehand essentially got Brawl removed from MLG), how weak the WiiU's RAM is compared to the competition (8GB > 2GB), and how the lack of a real hard drive (other than to store updates for a console that was clearly released a year to early) for the WiiU.

The phrase you want is "out of touch".

 

[Bajef8]

Well Nintendo's lack of wired controllers shows how outdated they are, as Sony and Microsoft show. That and their decisions to not reverse such policies as wired controllers, having an actual hard drive, and having a standard issue traditional controller that goes from one generation to the next.

Boy, this is looking more and more like the GameCube era for Nintendo, except instead of the console being ridiculously underrated, the console being outdated (well, the GameCube was that, too; the fact only about 3 games had online was pitiful), out gunned in terms of technological features (lol 2GB of RAM), and not all that intuitive.

Well to your comment I didn't quote, I'm not saying it's our fault about the controller thing. It's Nintendo's for not giving us a damn normal one during the Wii era. Thus making it harder on the fans and competitive community to "adapt" to newer things.

Btw, the Wii U is actually very underrated in terms of power as well as intuitive. The biggest new thing they implemented was that the GPU of the Wii U actually does most of the processing instead of the CPU. The Wii U GPU is massive for a gaming console, almost on par with a powerful PC. This new way of processing goes unused because it's not widely done, plus most software developers aren't trying to use the GPU because it's just a new, different, and misunderstood way of doing things. The reason ports of PS3 and 360 games look pretty much the same is because they are PORTED. Meaning that the game is still built for CPU processing as opposed to GPU. Meaning it won't look better til a game developer actually takes the time to fully utilize the Wii U's potential......In short, game developer's aren't properly developing games for Wii U by doing things the old way, thus it is underutilized.

Also what kinda sucks, Nintendo really doesn't care as much about the hardcore and competitive community as much as Sony and Microsoft...hence we are usually disappointed in what they "try" to do for us.

 

[smashmachine]

Btw, the Wii U is actually very underrated in terms of power as well as intuitive. The biggest new thing they implemented was that the GPU of the Wii U actually does most of the processing instead of the CPU. The Wii U GPU is massive for a gaming console, almost on par with a powerful PC. This new way of processing goes unused because it's not widely done, plus most software developers aren't trying to use the GPU because it's just a new, different, and misunderstood way of doing things. The reason ports of PS3 and 360 games look pretty much the same is because they are PORTED. Meaning that the game is still built for CPU processing as opposed to GPU. Meaning it won't look better til a game developer actually takes the time to fully utilize the Wii U's potential......In short, game developer's aren't properly developing games for Wii U by doing things the old way, thus it is underutilized..

it doesn't matter if they (3rd parties) can develop games, the fact is that they aren't, nor will they anytime soon
and all the "underrated power" is irrelevant if it's still weaker than its competitors

 

[Johnknight1]

Well to your comment I didn't quote, I'm not saying it's our fault about the controller thing. It's Nintendo's for not giving us a damn normal one during the Wii era. Thus making it harder on the fans and competitive community to "adapt" to newer things.

This is 100% truth. If Nintendo had a traditional controller (along with the CC, Wiimote, and Nunchunk), their controller situation would have been perfect.

Btw, the Wii U is actually very underrated in terms of power as well as intuitive. The biggest new thing they implemented was that the GPU of the Wii U actually does most of the processing instead of the CPU. The Wii U GPU is massive for a gaming console, almost on par with a powerful PC. This new way of processing goes unused because it's not widely done, plus most software developers aren't trying to use the GPU because it's just a new, different, and misunderstood way of doing things. The reason ports of PS3 and 360 games look pretty much the same is because they are PORTED. Meaning that the game is still built for CPU processing as opposed to GPU. Meaning it won't look better til a game developer actually takes the time to fully utilize the Wii U's potential......In short, game developer's aren't properly developing games for Wii U by doing things the old way, thus it is underutilized.[/quote]
Okay, I thought something like that was the case. Thanks for clearing that up good sir! (I always like being more informed)

BTW, do you know how much of the GPU can process (combined with the CPU)=???

Also what kinda sucks, Nintendo really doesn't care as much about the hardcore and competitive community as much as Sony and Microsoft...hence we are usually disappointed in what they "try" to do for us.

Nintendo kinda does, but they don't flat out say it, sans like the case of Zelda and Mario fans. They should just flat out say it. "We love all of you." I can see it now; Reggie says it, then hugs a random Nintendo fan, and then teaches a small child how to wavedash LIKE A BOSS!!!! (his body is ready indeed)

 

[Bajef8]

Alas, Nintendo lured us in with their fancy Links and Marios and now we can't stay away no matter how much they abuse us.

In regards to the GPU thing, I'm not an extreme techy, but I can tell you that my basic understanding is that the GPU takes tons of routine tasks off of the CPU and handles them on its own. Thus the CPU is able to handle things it's supposed to instead of trying to do everything on its own. Since the Wii U has such a large GPU, the need for a large CPU to handle things was pointless (and low CPU speeds and RAM make people think a machine is underpowered since those are really the only things most people pay attention to).

If you want a better explanation or read, try this:
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/w...urrent-gen-next-gen-wii-u-argument.452767897/
I know it's IGN, but the guy puts it extremely simply.

You can also search GPGPU processing on Wikipedia if super in-depth reading is more your thing.

 

[Priap0s]

@ P
You take yourself wayyyyy too seriously, as well as all my comments as insults. Calm down sunnnnn.

Or maybe you should be abit more serious and respectfull when joining in on a discussion? Or are you just here to preach your "right opinion" on everyone? Then a discussion forum is the wrong place for you my friend. Start a blog instead.

Well played thou, you eluded every point and counter argument I made with "Don't be so serious, calm down sunnnnn". Impressive stuff, Bill O'riley is that you?
Let's agree to disagree, even thou I'm personally gonna take it as if my last arguments where pretty much correct. Since you resort to that stuff instead. You can think the same way about yours thou. Keep saying "Nintendo will lose millions by not capitalizing on a g-cube port. People wont buy a wiiu pro controller instead thus giving them the $$ anyways. Nono, people won't do that. They will play using thin air". Whatever makes you happy. Let's just drop it

Small sidenote: A g-cube controller could maybe be profitable if they released it like 6 months after the games released. Then people will already have bought a WiiU pro controller, but hardcore g-cube controller fans such as yourself will buy an additional G-cube one. Thus selling 1 wiiu pro & 1 g-cube port. That way the g-cube sell won't equal one less wii u pro controller sold. (Still I don't think Nintendo want's to make the controller siotuation for WiiU even more comlpex).


Bottom line: A petetition for a G-cube controller before the game is released is redundant and will very likely be ignored by Nintendo. Maybe even hinder a later petetition after game release.

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^^ Stop taking everything as a personal insult then. And stop trying to win everything with insults. That is why no one takes single, double, and even triple digit posters like you seriously; because all you want to do is "win" by not insults.

Also, petitions have worked before, like the Melee Evo stream petition, which probably actually made the stream bigger, better, and ballsier than any Melee tournament livestream ever before.

Then again, God forbid what hell would have been unleashed on Nintendo if they pulled Melee from Evo. It would be a PR nightmare that couldn't be reversed, as well as a lot of lawsuits.

But back to the point, that whole "bait and switch" idea might have short-term gain, but long-term, it kills business relationships with customers. Honest business tend to be on the ones that last the longest, not ones that make their users buy two of one thing after one thing doesn't function.

If you want to cheat gamers like that, that is your hope of action, and in some places possible illegal actions; I'd rather just keep my GameCube controller, or heck, not buy a WiiU, and stick to Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl mods.

Alas, Nintendo lured us in with their fancy Links and Marios and now we can't stay away no matter how much they abuse us.

Or worse, when they fight each other!!! Those we really can't stay away from!

 

[Priap0s]

^^^^ Stop taking everything as a personal insult then. And stop trying to win everything with insults. That is why no one takes single, double, and even triple digit posters like you seriously; because all you want to do is "win" by not insults.

Well, it's just so annoying to have a discussion and have to read nonsense like "Calm down son" and "Nintendo fanboy". Takes away the fun you know ^^

Also, petitions have worked before, like the Melee Evo stream petition, which probably actually made the stream bigger, better, and ballsier than any Melee tournament livestream ever before.

I know. I don't disagree at all that a petetition can be good and work. My gripe with it is that we are doing it before the product is realesed. Saying "we don't like the controller for the new smash, we want this instead" when the game isn't even out yet. Meaning we haven't tried it and couln't possibly know for sure. I have a hard time seeing Nintendo taking that as serious as they would if it where complaints/wishes for a g-cube controller after game release and we all say the current controller dissapointed us ect.

But back to the point, that whole "bait and switch" idea might have short-term gain, but long-term, it kills business relationships with customers. Honest business tend to be on the ones that last the longest.

With this I whole heartedly agree. Its a vile tactic and I was just looking for a way where it would profitable for Nintendo to not just push the already out there core controller.
Still, it could be profitable. Nintendo have released quite poor gimicky things before. If they managed to pull this off as "pleasing the customers begging for a g-cube version for smash, after being dissapointed by pro controller" they could get away with it thou.


I realise we disagree here. But do you atleast see my point why I think the petetition is to early and might lose its impact because of it?

 

[TreK]

I would like everyone who thinks the GCC is superior to the Wii U Pro for playing Super Smash Brothers specifically to give me an outline or a summary of why they think it is.

I will make a thread explaining why the Wii U Pro is superior objectively and I would like to adress any and all concerns people might have.

Note: I will only take into account objective claims. Things like "it is more comfortable" will not be adressed as that is subjective and I cannot prove opinions.

Okay, so we're talking about these two controllers, right ?
http://www.geekbecois.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Wii-U-Pro-Controller1.jpeg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090516195122/nintendo/en/images/d/d0/GCcontroller.jpg

Alright. I'll be assuming there won't be any major change in the input scheme like there was from Smash 64 to Melee. In Melee, they basically designed the game around the new pad. It would be good if they did the same thing for Smash 4. But they probably aren't going to because of how much different peripherals the Wii U supports and the fact that there isn't a main one. So yeah, you could basically counter every argument in favor of the GC controller that way, but until time backs up your argument, you won't convince anyone.

1) Possibilities offered by the controllers :
-Wii U Pro
One additional shoulder button. However, this is irrelevant in Smash, as the inputs from shoulder buttons are symmetrical by default. We are going to map it to something else, so you could argue that it's actually not that irrelevant.
The Minus button. It is not a gameplay button and will probably end up being a second pause button or a taunt. Not even handy for mashing out of grabs or anything.
The D-pad is curved, and more ergonomic. Too bad, it's set to taunts in Smash.
-Gamecube controller
Analog shoulder buttons. They removed light shielding because it wasn't possible on all controllers but the GC one and it would have been unfair to those who did not play with the GC controller. They basically chose to ignore a possibility offered by the GC controller because the others were inferior.

2) Button layout :
-Wii U Pro
X and Y are not secondary buttons anymore, encouraging people to use them instead of tap jumping.
-Gamecube controller
It features a main button, the A button. Smash is a game with a main attack button. You can't really top that in terms of pad/gameplay chemistry.
The control stick's hole and the C stick's hole are not round, but octagonal. It makes accidental diagonal inputs impossible. It is an unrivaled way to make directional inputs more precise. The Wii CCP and wiimote/nunchuck have them, but the Wii U Pro doesn't.

3) Disadvantages in terms of tournament organization :
-Wii U Pro
There is a power button. You can turn the console off by accident/because you're a salty douchebag. And there's no way to know who did it and punish him if you're a TO.
There is a home button. You can interrupt a match by accident/because you're a salty douchebag. And there's no way to know who did it and punish him if you're a TO.
It runs on batteries. It is unreliable and more costly for heavy player such as ourselves. You can use rechargeable batteries, which are even less reliable. Mine have 30mn of charge after only three years of use, and I don't use them very often, I've only got like 20 Wii games and those that I can play on a GC pad, I do.
You need to synch it whenever you change consoles, and desynch it whenever you leave a console. It takes a whole minute for a 2v2 match to set up. Time is a precious, precious thing for TOs. An additional half an hour at the venue can cost them hundreds of bucks.
Wireless controllers are banned at EVO. Yeah, they could decide to make an exception. No, they aren't going to.
-Gamecube controller
They aren't Wii U compatible. Guess what, that's why we're making a petition.


Basically, everything the Wii U Pro gets right is almost irrelevant. And there are a couple things the GC controller does extremely well that the Wii U Pro doesn't.
I will be playing Smash 4 on a Wii classic controller pro which is not the best option, but the least crappy replacement for a GC controller.

GL on your thread.

 

[Priap0s]

There is a power button. You can turn the console off by accident/because you're a salty douchebag. And there's no way to know who did it and punish him if you're a TO.
There is a home button. You can interrupt a match by accident/because you're a salty douchebag. And there's no way to know who did it and punish him if you're a TO.

These are silly imo. If you do it by accident you just gonna have to suck it up and get punished for it, easy as that. Got no one but yourself to blame. (+the home button pauses, like that pause button on every controller do. How does it add a cheating option that isn't already there?). Why not add a minus to the g-cube controller then if we gonna be this extreme: Its not wireless, you could plug out your opponents controller by accident/because you're a salty...

It runs on batteries. It is unreliable and more costly for heavy player such as ourselves. You can use rechargeable batteries, which are even less reliable. Mine have 30mn of charge after only three years of use, and I don't use them very often, I've only got like 20 Wii games and those that I can play on a GC pad, I do.

Ehm, there are no standard batteries. Its chargable and you get a cable for charging (can be pluged into a electiricty socket or into a wiiu) with the purchase. The battery time is 50+ hours. How can you have had one of these for 3+ years when the WiiU has been out 8-9 months only? Are you really talking about the WiiU pro controller? (this one:
ttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2012/06/wiiupro530pxheaderimg513513.jpg)

You need to synch it whenever you change consoles, and desynch it whenever you leave a console. It takes a whole minute for a 2v2 match to set up. Time is a precious, precious thing for TOs. An additional half an hour at the venue can cost them hundreds of bucks.

Agree this is a nuisance. But you are over exagggerating. It takes more like 10 seconds. It's not as crappy as it could be to synch a wiimote sometimes. This goes on first try and the leds blink for like 5-10 seconds then its done.

The control stick's hole and the C stick's hole are not round, but octagonal. It makes accidental diagonal inputs impossible. It is an unrivaled way to make directional inputs more precise.

I have to try before speaking about this. But I can't see how I would mess up even 1 out of 100 inputs because of this. Its not hard to do these inputs with a non octagonal controlstick imo. But you might be right and foremost, it might be alot more comfortable to ahve the octagonal desgin there.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Agree with the rest but would appreciate if you could evaluate on these bits. Biggest thing is probably the wireless part for tournaments if they are going to keep on banning that in big tournaments. Thou I ahve no idea how the WiiU pro controller functions in a setting like that. Wouldn't be suprised to see a cord being included for this in the future. Maybe we that already bought one can get this cord from nintendo if we contact them. Rather make a petetition for a cord to the wiiu pro controller now and wait with this untill we have tried and know if the wiiu pro sucks for smash or not ^^

 

[TreK]

These are silly imo. If you do it by accident you just gonna have to suck it up and get punished for it, easy as that. Got no one but yourself to blame. (+the home button pauses, like that pause button on every controller do. How does it add a cheating option that isn't already there?). Why not add a minus to the g-cube controller then if we gonna be this extreme: Its not wireless, you could plug out your opponents controller by accident/because you're a salty...

1) Only players that are in the game can pause with plus. There's no such restriction for the home and power buttons.
2) When pausing, the camera zooms at the character from the guy who paused. You actually can know who paused. There is no such restriction on the home and power buttons.
3) Tell a TO to have confidence in its players and see what he'll answer to you. People are douchebags, by nature. Some people don't care about the tournament scene even when they're a part of it. There are thefts at basically EVERY MAJOR EVER. M2K, which is known to love this community and give a lot to it, actually causes us problems regularly because he's also known to not stop friendly matches when his name gets called for a tournament set. People are not reliable.
4) If you deplug your opponent's controller, it's pretty much the same thing as holding a 'ban me from this tourney sign' over your head. Everybody will see you.

Ehm, there are no standard batteries. Its chargable and you get a cable for charging (can be pluged into a electiricty socket or into a wiiu) with the purchase. The battery time is 50+ hours. How can you have had one of these for 3+ years when the WiiU has been out 8-9 months only? Are you really talking about the WiiU pro controller? (this one: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2012/06/wiiupro530pxheaderimg513513.jpg)

My bad, I did not know the Wii U Pro has a custom battery charger, and thought you had to plug it into a Wiimote like the Wii CCP. Scratch that point.

 

[Priap0s]

1) Only players that are in the game can pause with plus. There's no such restriction for the home and power buttons.
2) When pausing, the camera zooms at the character from the guy who paused. You actually can know who paused. There is no such restriction on the home and power buttons.
3) Tell a TO to have confidence in its players and see what he'll answer to you. People are douchebags, by nature. Some people don't care about the tournament scene even when they're a part of it. There are thefts at basically EVERY MAJOR EVER. M2K, which is known to love this community and give a lot to it, actually causes us problems regularly because he's also known to not stop friendly matches when his name gets called for a tournament set. People are not reliable.
4) If you deplug your opponent's controller, it's pretty much the same thing as holding a 'ban me from this tourney sign' over your head. Everybody will see you.

1) Gotcha. So what you mean is that someone not playing could get their wii u pro controller connected to the console while the two players are synching. And then pause the game and ruin it for them?

2) Get your point here as well. The main thing is that you can't know who pushes the button. Unlike a pause.

3) I know there are people who can not behave. But I don't think people would go so far with cheating that they would turn of consoles or home-pause. Even if so, thats a one time trick. If it would happen yet again when the same player is playing another game it would get pretty obvious. Hardly long term abusable.

4) Indeed. I just thought you concerns where a bit silly or paranoid. But they are completly possible I agree. As said thou, its a one time trick if someone would ever be so low to use it. Also if someone would see you do it even the first time, watching your controller or similar... Hello lifetime ban form smash community. I hardly, think people would use these methods.
(I do agree that the unplug example was silly of me thou. Sure you could do it with your foot and claim it was the other guy pulling it out accidentaly. But the chance of no one seeing what realy happened is like >1%)
_____________________________________________________________________________________

I do agree with some of the issues wireless can have thou (but I know very little about this myself, for example I have no clue how well wiiu pro controllers would function if there was alot of them present at the same place). Nintendo really should have included a cord in the package for every wii u pro controller. If there ever is a petetition for that, hook me up (Best would be if the same cord, you use to charge it by connecting it to wiiu, with would also function as making it not wireless. 2 in 1. Maybe that isn't possible?)

 

[Mypantisgone]

You guys are writting a novel for something Nintendo will probably ignore.

 

[Priap0s]

You guys are writting a novel for something Nintendo will probably ignore.

Gotta kill time, when it's slow at work, in some way mate ^^

 

[Baskerville]

You guys are writting a novel for something Nintendo will probably ignore.

Pretty much.
I don't see this sort of thing happening considering how out of touch Nintendo is with the market and their fanbases. (Unless if there is as much media coverage as NOA almost making Melee at EVO not a thing.)

 

[TreK]

1) Gotcha. So what you mean is that someone not playing could get their wii u pro controller connected to the console while the two players are synching. And then pause the game and ruin it for them?
2) Get your point here as well. The main thing is that you can't know who pushes the button. Unlike a pause.

Yup. I've seen it happen a lot, though it is easy to see who did it in a Brawl tourney because 90% of the people there don't have a Wiimote to begin with.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I wish I was wrong. But if there's no desynch function on the Wii U like there is on PS3, then even if your controller has been off for a couple hours you could still turn it back on in the middle of a match and shut down the console. Even if the controller's in your backpack or something.

(Best would be if the same cord, you use to charge it by connecting it to wiiu, with would also function as making it not wireless. 2 in 1. Maybe that isn't possible?)*

The XBOX controller has a cord that can act like that. But it functions differently from a normal cord : the cord is primarily used to charge the controller's battery, and it when you plug it, it simply tells both the controller and the console to go into synch mode. It doesn't carry other information, reduce input lag, or solve any problems. The inputs are still transmitted via bluetooth with this controller.
So they released a fully wired XBOX controller, and it's much, much better. It turns off when you unplug it, as it doesn't have a battery to begin with. Inputs are transferred via the cord, which allows me to use it on PS3 and have slightly less input lag. I use one for Injustice tourneys and it works wonders :V
tldr : it takes a quite different piece of technology to achieve this, so they might release a dumbed down version of it that doesn't solve any problems if that's what we ask for

I have to try before speaking about this. But I can't see how I would mess up even 1 out of 100 inputs because of this. Its not hard to do these inputs with a non octagonal controlstick imo. But you might be right and foremost, it might be alot more comfortable to ahve the octagonal desgin there.

Well, talking about Injustice... The XBOX controller has round holes too. And that's exactly why I and pretty much everybody else who don't have an arcade stick use the D-pad in traditional fighting games. Round control sticks really suck for fighting games, and so will they for Smash.
In Smash, there aren't quarter circles and all that jazz, but even without talking about wavedashes or Sheik's DACUS, there are tilted attacks, analog recovery moves, strafing, and all that **** requires pixel perfect precision. The octagon gives us arcade stick-like precision while still being analog. It's really the best thing out there at the moment for Smash.

 

[Priap0s]

Well, talking about Injustice... The XBOX controller has round holes too. And that's exactly why I and pretty much everybody else who don't have an arcade stick use the D-pad in traditional fighting games. Round control sticks really suck for fighting games, and so will they for Smash.
In Smash, there aren't quarter circles and all that jazz, but even without talking about wavedashes or Sheik's DACUS, there are tilted attacks, analog recovery moves, strafing, and all that **** requires pixel perfect precision. The octagon gives us arcade stick-like precision while still being analog. It's really the best thing out there at the moment for Smash.

To be honest I have always viewed smash differently than your standard fighting games. I actually play fighting games with the D-pad but have never felt a need to do so in smash. To me smash has never felt as complex enough to need the d-pad precision and I have no trouble doing it with a stick. Maybe that is because its a octagon stick, I will have to wait and see when smash comes. Maybe the circle design will fuc k me up completly

Yup. I've seen it happen a lot

Im shocked how people would go and destroy tournaments like that. Frankly speaking, what total cun ts. Then I, sadly, see the need for wired controllers. I heard that the ps3 did that to. When you plugged it in you thought it would function like a wired controller. But I tried holding an input (moving my character forward) and unplugging it. The character kept moving, I took that as if it kept communicating wirelessly even when plugged? Or it should have stopped for a short moment when switching to wireless communication. Maybe it isn't possible to just add a chord for this then. So we really need a full fledged wired one no mather how good or bad the wiiu pro controller handles smash.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I wish I was wrong. But if there's no desynch function on the Wii U like there is on PS3.

I have no clue. Tried to google it but didn't find anyting. Do you mean like an option or a button to desync/kick out every controller synced to the system? If anyone else knows please fill in, Id like to know if this feature exists on the WiiU. Or if it's possible to patch in.

 

[TreK]

Im shocked how people would go and destroy tournaments like that. Frankly speaking, what total cun ts. Then I, sadly, see the need for wired controllers. I heard that the ps3 did that to. When you plugged it in you thought it would function like a wired controller. But I tried holding an input (moving my character forward) and unplugging it. The character kept moving, I took that as if it kept communicating wirelessly even when plugged? Maybe it isn't possible to just add a chord for this then. So we really need a full fledged wired one no mather how good or bad the wiiu pro controller handles smash.

Well it was most often unintentional, don't get me wrong. I brought an irl friend of mine to a Smash tourney a year ago, and he uses Wiichuck. I forgot to tell him to remove his batteries whenever he stops playing, and he ended up interrupting a friendly match while his Wiimote was in his backpack. We only realized it was our fault 10 minutes later, when he pulled it off of his bag to play and saw that the controller was on.
But I've also seen it be intentional a couple times. At big tourneys or anime conventions it's where the most trolls are.

 

[Chiroz]

Okay, so we're talking about these two controllers, right ?http://www.geekbecois.com/wp-conten...5122/nintendo/en/images/d/d0/GCcontroller.jpg
Alright. I'll be assuming there won't be any major change in the input scheme like there was from Smash 64 to Melee. In Melee, they basically designed the game around the new pad. It would be good if they did the same thing for Smash 4. But they probably aren't going to because of how much different peripherals the Wii U supports and the fact that there isn't a main one. So yeah, you could basically counter every argument in favor of the GC controller that way, but until time backs up your argument, you won't convince anyone.
1) Possibilities offered by the controllers :-Wii U ProOne additional shoulder button. However, this is irrelevant in Smash, as the inputs from shoulder buttons are symmetrical by default. We are going to map it to something else, so you could argue that it's actually not that irrelevant.The Minus button. It is not a gameplay button and will probably end up being a second pause button or a taunt. Not even handy for mashing out of grabs or anything.The D-pad is curved, and more ergonomic. Too bad, it's set to taunts in Smash.-Gamecube controllerAnalog shoulder buttons. They removed light shielding because it wasn't possible on all controllers but the GC one and it would have been unfair to those who did not play with the GC controller. They basically chose to ignore a possibility offered by the GC controller because the others were inferior.
2) Button layout :-Wii U ProX and Y are not secondary buttons anymore, encouraging people to use them instead of tap jumping.-Gamecube controllerIt features a main button, the A button. Smash is a game with a main attack button. You can't really top that in terms of pad/gameplay chemistry.The control stick's hole and the C stick's hole are not round, but octagonal. It makes accidental diagonal inputs impossible. It is an unrivaled way to make directional inputs more precise. The Wii CCP and wiimote/nunchuck have them, but the Wii U Pro doesn't.
3) Disadvantages in terms of tournament organization :-Wii U ProThere is a power button. You can turn the console off by accident/because you're a salty douchebag. And there's no way to know who did it and punish him if you're a TO.There is a home button. You can interrupt a match by accident/because you're a salty douchebag. And there's no way to know who did it and punish him if you're a TO.It runs on batteries. It is unreliable and more costly for heavy player such as ourselves. You can use rechargeable batteries, which are even less reliable. Mine have 30mn of charge after only three years of use, and I don't use them very often, I've only got like 20 Wii games and those that I can play on a GC pad, I do.You need to synch it whenever you change consoles, and desynch it whenever you leave a console. It takes a whole minute for a 2v2 match to set up. Time is a precious, precious thing for TOs. An additional half an hour at the venue can cost them hundreds of bucks.Wireless controllers are banned at EVO. Yeah, they could decide to make an exception. No, they aren't going to.-Gamecube controllerThey aren't Wii U compatible. Guess what, that's why we're making a petition.


Basically, everything the Wii U Pro gets right is almost irrelevant. And there are a couple things the GC controller does extremely well that the Wii U Pro doesn't.I will be playing Smash 4 on a Wii classic controller pro which is not the best option, but the least crappy replacement for a GC controller.
GL on your thread.

All of your faults are irrelevant. The Wii U does not support wired controllers. Any GC controller Nintendo might release will still be wireless and will most probably have a home and most definately a power button because those buttons add convenience for their clients thus making a better product. They don't design around the possibility of a random asshole. By the way you can disable the home button in your game through programming, so if Sakurai really desired to give us an option he would. Also I believe there is an option to unsync all currently synched controllers which would make it much faster, but don't quote me on that.Anyways, your personal gripes won't be solved if that GC controller is released, basically you should be petitioning for a Wired Wii U Pro with no power button, it's much more likely you can get that.


Edit: also my argument is all about why the Wii U Pro is better objectively because it allows for faster, simpler inputs. To do this I have to mandatorily change the controller setup which is totally possible in Brawl and will most probably be possible in Smash 4. Basically the addition of 3 buttons and the new position of the Control Stick allow you to have a finger on top of every necesary button, thus you are never hindered by things like input speed, they become just Rythm or Tempo if you will. Things one might find difficult to execute like Waveshining become just as simple as a regular Wavedash. Fact is the Wii U Pro can be setup in ways impossible for the GC.

 

[[Corn]]

All of this hate for classic controller pro

I like it and use it.

 

[TreK]

All of your faults are irrelevant. The Wii U does not support wired controllers. Any GC controller Nintendo might release will still be wireless and will most probably have a home and most definately a power button because those buttons add convenience for their clients thus making a better product.

You asked for reasons the GC pad is considered to be better. Wireless controllers suck. How does that not make the GC pad better ?
Look at the very first answer to this thread. You can't simply tell people from a competitive smash website 'hey, look at this, it makes tournaments less likely to run correctly, but that's irrelevant, right ?' and expect people to agree with you. That is pretty much the reasons why wireless controllers are banned by pretty much all TOs from other communities.
It's not all about the buttons and sticks, and even then the GC pad still wins by a margin. Being more practical is a big advantage for the GC pad as well.

Edit: also my argument is all about why the Wii U Pro is better objectively because it allows for faster, simpler inputs. To do this I have to mandatorily change the controller setup which is totally possible in Brawl and will most probably be possible in Smash 4. Basically the addition of 3 buttons and the new position of the Control Stick allow you to have a finger on top of every necesary button, thus you are never hindered by things like input speed, they become just Rythm or Tempo if you will. Things one might find difficult to execute like Waveshining become just as simple as a regular Wavedash. Fact is the Wii U Pro can be setup in ways impossible for the GC.

So basically, it's objectively better because... it has ONE MORE SHOULDER BUTTON ?
Here is my answer :
http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/851/wiiuclassic.jpg
Boom. Ten times better than the Wii U Pro or Wii CCP can hope to be. That's what people are petitioning for here, check the petition page.
Still not as good as the GC controller if you ask me.

Again, GL for your thread.

Btw, off-topic, but lol-worthy :
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/eMpTy-MiND3d/Controller.jpg

 

[Chiroz]

You asked for reasons the GC pad is considered to be better. Wireless controllers suck. How does that not make the GC pad better ?Look at the very first answer to this thread. You can't simply tell people from a competitive smash website 'hey, look at this, it makes tournaments less likely to run correctly, but that's irrelevant, right ?' and expect people to agree with you. That is pretty much the reasons why wireless controllers are banned by pretty much all TOs from other communities.It's not all about the buttons and sticks, and even then the GC pad still wins by a margin. Being more practical is a big advantage for the GC pad as well.

So basically, it's objectively better because... it has ONE MORE SHOULDER BUTTON ?Here is my answer :http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/851/wiiuclassic.jpgBoom. Ten times better than the Wii U Pro or Wii CCP can hope to be. That's what people are petitioning for here, check the petition page.Still not as good as the GC controller if you ask me.Again, GL for your thread.Btw, off-topic, but lol-worthy :http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i45/eMpTy-MiND3d/Controller.jpg

People aren't arguing over wireless or wired, they're arguing over Wii U Pro vs GCC. It would be easier for Nintendo to make a wired Wii U Pro than a wired GCC so your point is irrelevant in a GC vs Wii U Pro debate for Smash 4 because they are both wireless.

Its not the shoulder buttons, its the inwards clickable control sticks. I can map the controller so that I never have to move any finger from any of the buttond (and only use 4 fingers, my 2 thumbs and my 2 index). Not having to move my fingers not only makes my inputs faster but it takes away any and all execution barriers related to speed because there is no more moving required. I already tried my setup on an GC emulator and I can do everything much faster than in GC since I don't need to move said fingers, not only that but speed-tight techniques such as Waveshining become incredibly simpler to perform because of this setup.

The GC controller cannot be setup in this way unless it gets clickable control sticks. And if it did and you customized it like this then why get a GC controller since this setup doesn't even use facebuttons, not a single face button.

Can you argue that a controller that allows for faster inputs and lowers barriers of execution thus opening up more options for players who couldn't reach the previous barrier is worse? For me a controller is as good as what it allows me to do, the options it gives me in game. More options = better controller.

 

[Johnknight1]

You guys are writting a novel for something Nintendo will probably ignore.

To be fair, most people are ignoring Nintendo's new white box like it gives them diabetes, while the Xbox One and PS4 could be sold out this winter.

Maybe if Nintendo stopped ignoring some fans, fan bases, genres, and modern day technology, they wouldn't be treading on water with the WiiU.

My gripe with it is that we are doing it before the product is realesed. Saying "we don't like the controller for the new smash, we want this instead" when the game isn't even out yet. Meaning we haven't tried it and couln't possibly know for sure.

I told you I tried the only controllers in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 (a game made by the same developer as Smash WiiU) and NEW Super Mario Bros. U, and the CC Pro and Pro Controller were just not as comfortable to use. In smash, that is an even bigger deal to me then than in those games, because it is both a platformer and a fighting game.

Also, people griped about this before Brawl came out. Are you suggesting we should have waited for GameCube controller support after we tried the Wiimote, Wiimote with Nunchucks, and Classic Controller=??? Because quite frankly, that's stupid. Why buy an inferior and more expensive product=???

I have a hard time seeing Nintendo taking that as serious as they would if it where complaints/wishes for a g-cube controller after game release and we all say the current controller dissapointed us ect.

I have a hard time seeing Nintendo being taken seriously if they ignore the request of their most loyal gamers on a console that seems doomed to lose to the technologically all-around superior PS4 that clearly has more originality and passion put into it, and the Xbox One might pass the WiiU swiftly as well.

Nintendo ought to latch onto as many fans as they can with the WiiU, or else they'll have a disaster like the GameCube again, except this time it won't be a marketing and online interface problem, but a game and fan base-related issue, which is exactly what killed SEGA as a console producer with the SEGA Saturn.

With this I whole heartedly agree. Its a vile tactic and I was just looking for a way where it would profitable for Nintendo to not just push the already out there core controller.
Still, it could be profitable. Nintendo have released quite poor gimicky things before. If they managed to pull this off as "pleasing the customers begging for a g-cube version for smash, after being dissapointed by pro controller" they could get away with it thou.

Not if people hate it, can't get used to it, and sell the game and controllers back like they did with DKC Returns on the Wii. Heck, some people buy the console for Smash. I know well over a dozen people who sold their Wii and Wii library because they hated Brawl (I almost did that, until I found out about Brawl mods). Imagine if that happened with Smash WiiU, but instead, you tack on controller issues as well. That has the potential to be a gigantic disaster.