Petitioning Nintendo: Develop a Gamecube controller style Wii U controller

[[Corn]]

I have a hard time seeing Nintendo being taken seriously if they ignore the request of their most loyal gamers on a console that seems doomed to lose to the technologically all-around superior PS4 that clearly has more originality and passion put into it, and the Xbox One might pass the WiiU swiftly as well.

They arent very loyal if they cant accept a small change after like 12 years....

 

[mimgrim]

I have a hard time seeing Nintendo being taken seriously if they ignore the request of their most loyal gamers on a console that seems doomed to lose to the technologically all-around superior PS4 that clearly has more originality and passion put into it, and the Xbox One might pass the WiiU swiftly as well.

Nintendo ought to latch onto as many fans as they can with the WiiU, or else they'll have a disaster like the GameCube again, except this time it won't be a marketing and online interface problem, but a game and fan base-related issue, which is exactly what killed SEGA as a console producer with the SEGA Saturn.

Lul. They aren't very loyal gamers if they are willing to give up on nintendo due to a controller. A true fanboy of Nintendo will stick with them almost no matter what and there is no way something as simple as a controller whill affect that. Heck I hated the Nunchuck + Wii Mote and games that only suported that option and nothing else. It is annoying as heck moving around using the control stick of the Nunchuck for me. But I dealt with it and accepted it and didn't complain about it and still ended playing the games I loved that only allowed that set up despite how annoying it was for me. Plus being a loyal fan of Nintendo should mean you know how to adapt. Nintendo has always been known for being the innovative company and doing something new with their systems, with the exeption for the NES to the SNES but considering those where their first 2 systems it is understandabe. Look at the Snes to N64, 2D to 3D and a totally new controller. Look from N64 to GC where the controller was radically changed once again. Then from GC to Wii where it went from being wired based to mostly being wireless based, Motion Control, and again radical changes to controllers (and not every game supported the GCC). And now the Wii to Wii-U, now we have the Gam Pad which is once again a radical change in controllers schemes and now no access to the GCC but we now have the Wii-U CCP. Nintendo has always done things different from MS and Sony becuase Sony and MS don't really do major changes to their systems compared to Nintendo, but it works for Sony and MS jsut like what Nintendo does works for Nintendo. Also don't cut Nintendo out yet. Their main problem with the Wii-U was lack of first party games, but that will be changing soon and I think we all know Nintendo when compared to Sony and MS has always had the strongest first party games which is why they never needed third party games to survive. :/

 

[Double Helix]

So I have been reading these posts for some reason. I feel as though I can objectively say that the Gamecube controller has been the best controller in terms of responsiveness. The shoulder buttons are incredible, better than any other console (because you can light and hard shield with them in Melee, just an example). In terms of the C-stick, it responds just as well as the buttons do (not faster) and does make for a great camera. Its utility is very good in this regard. The layout also naturally allows for the equivalent of plinking. I have two problems with the gamecube controller as it is though. For competitive play, though this is disagreeable because preferences, the X button seems kinda far away and while its placement makes sense, isn't exactly optimal. The biggest problem is that ****ing D-pad. It is awful.

As much as I love the Gamecube controller, I prefer the setup of other controllers for different games (though like I said, the Gamecube controller is probably the best). So if Smash4 has a better controller, why not use it? Especially if there are (for some reason) new mechanics that utilize more buttons (though I doubt it). Besides...other than wired controllers not existing (I don't wanna pay for batteries...and lag) some controllers could potentially be better than the Gamecube controller, especially since the physics engine will probably be different. Who knows...the best controller for this game might be the N64 controller lol.

tl;dr: Gamecube controllers are awesome. Be open to adaptation (overall better doesn't mean better for all situations).

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ The C-stick does respond faster than buttons; it has been proven time and time again.

As for the D-pad, it doesn't really matter in how it applies to smash because it is only for taunts, which are useless. Still, if we get a true successor to the GameCube controller, that should 100% be upgraded (along with the Z-button curving in like the L and R button, and the fact that there should be 2 Z buttons).

They arent very loyal if they cant accept a small change after like 12 years....

You are gonna see many, many, many smash players not buy the WiiU for Smash like they did with the Wii and Brawl. After the backlash Brawl got, if there is no GameCube controller support or any GameCube controller true successor, why should I or anyone else who thought Brawl was a disaster of a game (compared to the previous 2 smash bros entries), why should we buy a new console, game, and a new controller as well=???

Oh, and a controller isn't a mere "small change." Like I said, the crappy N64 controller is a big reason why the PS1 blew that thing out of the water. Now that the Wiimote gimmick era is seemingly largely over (much like the Guitar Hero/Rock Band era is over), Nintendo can't rely on motion control gimmicks.

And I'm not counting Nintendo out either, but currently, they look destined to be blown out by Sony like in the PS1 and PS2 days, and Microsoft could blow them out potentially as well. The WiiU won't be anywhere near as dominant as the Wii, and quite frankly, with the current situation Nintendo is in, they would be lucky to come in 2nd, let alone 1st.

 

[nessokman]

Thinking you're gonna need triple the amount of signatures you have now for them to consider it

While we're at it, let's start planning on finding ways to make SSB4 the EXACT same as melee

 

[Reznor]

^^^ The C-stick does respond faster than buttons; it has been proven time and time again.

haven't been paying attentions to this thread could I get a link to proof

^^^ The C-stick does respond faster than buttons; it has been proven time and time again.

As for the D-pad, it doesn't really matter in how it applies to smash because it is only for taunts, which are useless. Still, if we get a true successor to the GameCube controller, that should 100% be upgraded (along with the Z-button curving in like the L and R button, and the fact that there should be 2 Z buttons).

You are gonna see many, many, many smash players not buy the WiiU for Smash like they did with the Wii and Brawl. After the backlash Brawl got, if there is no GameCube controller support or any GameCube controller true successor, why should I or anyone else who thought Brawl was a disaster of a game (compared to the previous 2 smash bros entries), why should we buy a new console, game, and a new controller as well=???

Oh, and a controller isn't a mere "small change." Like I said, the crappy N64 controller is a big reason why the PS1 blew that thing out of the water. Now that the Wiimote gimmick era is seemingly largely over (much like the Guitar Hero/Rock Band era is over), Nintendo can't rely on motion control gimmicks.

And I'm not counting Nintendo out either, but currently, they look destined to be blown out by Sony like in the PS1 and PS2 days, and Microsoft could blow them out potentially as well. The WiiU won't be anywhere near as dominant as the Wii, and quite frankly, with the current situation Nintendo is in, they would be lucky to come in 2nd, let alone 1st.

not buying smash4 because you can't use a GC controller seems kinda dumb to be honest

why should we buy a new console, game, and a new controller as well=???

because people do this every game gen the Wii is a special case

 

[nessokman]

not buying smash4 because you can't use a GC controller seems kinda dumb to be honest

Not as dumb as saying they won't buy it because they held melee streams at EVO. The pro controller will be fine, get over the fact that things change and that you can't have the same every time. There is no reason the pro controller won't be a fantastic controll scheme. Even sakurai uses it

 

[mimgrim]

You are gonna see many, many, many smash players not buy the WiiU for Smash like they did with the Wii and Brawl. After the backlash Brawl got, if there is no GameCube controller support or any GameCube controller true successor, why should I or anyone else who thought Brawl was a disaster of a game (compared to the previous 2 smash bros entries), why should we buy a new console, game, and a new controller as well=???

Oh, and a controller isn't a mere "small change." Like I said, the crappy N64 controller is a big reason why the PS1 blew that thing out of the water. Now that the Wiimote gimmick era is seemingly largely over (much like the Guitar Hero/Rock Band era is over), Nintendo can't rely on motion control gimmicks.

And I'm not counting Nintendo out either, but currently, they look destined to be blown out by Sony like in the PS1 and PS2 days, and Microsoft could blow them out potentially as well. The WiiU won't be anywhere near as dominant as the Wii, and quite frankly, with the current situation Nintendo is in, they would be lucky to come in 2nd, let alone 1st.

For the first paragraph. It's not going to be as many as you think. You are making the minority look bigger/just as big as the majority when that is no where near the case. And secondly if they aren't willing to get the new Smash because it isn't compatible with the GCC then they aren't true/loyal fans to the series. I'm not even going to touch the "Brawl disaster" statement when the term is highly subjective and when many people who prefer Melee still gave Brawl a chance and some even still play Brawl even though they prefer Melee.

For second paragraph. If you noticed even though the motion control gimmick is still there they are not pushing it and relying as much on it as they did in the Wii era. They re pushing the game pad more now and are making 2 different screens the big gimmick this generation now.

As for 3rd. Yes objectivly speaking Xbone and PS4 are better systems overall. But Nintendo has something over the other 2 consoles. Strong first party games which will end up keeping them safe once they get released. :/

 

[[Corn]]

You are gonna see many, many, many smash players not buy the WiiU for Smash like they did with the Wii and Brawl. After the backlash Brawl got, if there is no GameCube controller support or any GameCube controller true successor, why should I or anyone else who thought Brawl was a disaster of a game (compared to the previous 2 smash bros entries), why should we buy a new console, game, and a new controller as well=???.

If you dont like a game or dislike an issue enough to warrent you not buying it dont. The group that will drop smash entirely due to a lack of Gcube support is an extreme minority. Regardless if they do make a Gcube controller, it will be wireless and im assuming everyone is complaining about needing a wired one no?

What Brawl backlash lol? The only ones who the backlash effected were the people who dont accept things they dont like or dont understand that Brawl isnt another game that people play religiously.... It sold well and is still played today, which is very good considering the lifespan of all the other games that immediately fade out. These people are once again an extreme minority.

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm not even going to touch the "Brawl disaster" statement when the term is highly subjective and when many people who prefer Melee still gave Brawl a chance and some even still play Brawl even though they prefer Melee.

Most of the people/friends I know who got ride of their Wii because Brawl failed were very casual players, too. They have told me they felt the game wasn't as balanced, fun, or interactive as they would have thought, and that compared to Melee, it wasn't as chaotic and crazy fun.

The friends I know that sold their copies of Brawl (or that don't play it) but kept their Wii instead went to Mario Kart 7, which IMO is a much better "party game." Plus, the online on that game actually functions.

For second paragraph. If you noticed even though the motion control gimmick is still there they are not pushing it and relying as much on it as they did in the Wii era. They re pushing the game pad more now and are making 2 different screens the big gimmick this generation now.

Yes, and the game pad thing isn't working. Developers think they have to use it, and most gamers don't get why it is different from an iPad or the Smartglass.

I think it is a great idea, it's a great controller, and it is sometimes utilized great, but so far, it has largely been untapped into, whereas the Wiimote+Nunchucks immediately were tapped into, and their limits were reached fairly early (so early in fact that they needed to make a Wiimote Plus adapter/controller).

As for 3rd. Yes objectivly speaking Xbone and PS4 are better systems overall. But Nintendo has something over the other 2 consoles. Strong first party games which will end up keeping them safe once they get released. :/

I'm not say they are, I am saying they are a more "hot item." I don't personally care to express my opinion on my thoughts on said consoles, but rather, to share my views on how the consoles are viewed.

Not as dumb as saying they won't buy it because they held melee streams at EVO.

1. Not as dumb as Nintendo blocking the stream or trying to get Melee removed from Evo 3 days prior (the latter which would have lead to lawsuits).
2. I would not buy the WiiU if Nintendo did that, because I've had it up to here with them. Their console games have been a huge letdown.
3. The only Nintendo-published Wii games that weren't let downs were Xenoblade Chronicles, Epic Yarn, Return to Dreamland, DKC Returns (which had terrible controls), and Metroid Prime 3.
4. I am literally only buying a WiiU for Smash, so why wouldn't I do that=???
5. Nintendo's youtube, streaming, and video sharing policies are crap, and which is why they got a dumped on for it. Nintendo turned into a mini-Microsoft there.
6. I'm surprised Sony didn't crap on them like they did on Microsoft, especially since the PS4 actually has a stream sponsor.

 

[Bajef8]

I'm sorry but Brawl's sale number disagree with that statement of failing. You need to remember that the competitive Smash community is very small compared to the rest of the people that play it. Brawl wasn't a failure in its objective either. Sakurai said that he made the game less competitive in order to draw in more people to the series. Which is why now he's speeding it up again since all the newbies are familiar with Smash. Plus saying that people will just give up on Nintendo because they don't have a GC controller to play the game with is ludicrous. Lots of people will just move on to the CC Pro of the Wii U Pro because their love for Nintendo and Smash totally outweighs their anger at not being able to use the GC controller

 

[mimgrim]

Most of the people/friends I know who got ride of their Wii because Brawl failed were very casual players, too. They have told me they felt the game wasn't as balanced, fun, or interactive as they would have thought, and that compared to Melee, it wasn't as chaotic and crazy fun.

The friends I know that sold their copies of Brawl (or that don't play it) but kept their Wii instead went to Mario Kart 7, which IMO is a much better "party game." Plus, the online on that game actually functions.

And it's the opposite with my friends. Most of the friends I know/knew prefered Brawl. But I was also the only one among my friends to even own a Wii. But that is all meh now ever since moving. But still it supports my point that it is highly subjective on which game is better to people.

Yes, and the game pad thing isn't working. Developers think they have to use it, and most gamers don't get why it is different from an iPad or the Smartglass.

Mmmm, it doesn't have to be used but it is a nifty function for 2 things, one it is great for when someone wants to watch the TV while the other wants to play a game on that same TV (presuming only one TV and/or the person is to lazy to hook it up to a new TV) so that one can watch the tube while the other can continue to play on the game pad heck they could even play Wii-U games on toliet even and secondly it serves as a easy to view map/bag/whatever making things by allot faster and smoother which while only being a small boost is still vastly help none the less. I would think people with even half a brain would realize the differences between the game pad and a Ipad and what an amazing idea the game pad actually is for consoles. e_e

I'm not say they are, I am saying they are a more "hot item." I don't personally care to express my opinion on my thoughts on said consoles, but rather, to share my views on how the consoles are viewed.

That to. But again I think Nintendo's first party games will end up saving them.

The only Nintendo-published Wii games that weren't let downs were Xenoblade Chronicles, Epic Yarn, Return to Dreamland, DKC Returns (which had terrible controls), and Metroid Prime 3.

Mario Galaxies? Mario Kart Wii? Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, well besides the story of the game (which isn't as horrible as people make it out to be it jsut does allot of BS moments towards the end lol), Ermm would Last Story and Pandora's Tower and Conduit count to? But then again the whole thing on games being dissapointing or not is subjective. :/

 

[Double Helix]

Idk man. Brawl is fine as a party game and had enough features to keep people interested if they didn't like it as well as a fighting game for Melee. Also...where is the proof that the C-stick responds BETTER than buttons. In any case...why buy a console for one game? I don't think I would ever pay $200+ for a game which is essentially what is going on. Yes Nintendo has done stupid stuff. Yes their console is inferior in terms of specs. However, Nintendo has games that are not exclusive. Many people bought a Wii and a 360/ps3 or all three, so why not do the same here? My point is, the only valid point I could see aside from opinions or preference here is a wired controller. Those have lag, and could be detrimental to skill.

Either way, in terms of the console wars, they are irrelevant here. Smashboards. Home of competitive Super Smash Bros. A Nintendo exclusive. Many of us love this company and want them to succeed. We (collectively) love Melee; we love Brawl; we love Smash64. There are some that main characters they love. Some may not be great but love the game enough to support it. Some just love Nintendo. Whatever the reason...we are here on Smashboards, so chances are we wanna play Smash4. When it comes down to it, a Gamecube controller would be great yes. Will it stop most of us from playing the game? Not a chance.

 

[Johnknight1]

not buying smash4 because you can't use a GC controller seems kinda dumb to be honest

Not what I'm say buck. Not being able to use a GC controller or a proper GC controller successor is anotherincentive not to buy a game. Never once did I say it was the primary incentive.

That to. But again I think Nintendo's first party games will end up saving them.

Saving them from disaster? Yes. Saving them from dropping to second place? Doubtful, especially with the improved competition, the strength of the 3rd parties these days, and how 3rd parties have gone largely Western, which seems to be the 3rd parties Nintendo has the biggest troubles with.

Nintendo needs more than great 3D Mario, Mario Kart, DK, Zelda (let alone a HD remake/port), Pikmin, SSB to keep themselves in the lead. They need 3rd parties too, and currently, they have very few, sans their deals with Platinum Games and SEGA (which at least is a very good start if their games are any good).

Mario Galaxies? Mario Kart Wii? Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, well besides the story of the game (which isn't as horrible as people make it out to be it just does allot of BS moments towards the end lol), Ermm would Last Story and Pandora's Tower and Conduit count to? But then again the whole thing on games being dissapointing or not is subjective. :/

Galaxy 1 and 2 were too easy, too linear, and had too little replay value to be exceptional games. Mario Kart Wii nearly reached Super Monkey Ball territory with the lack of control you had. Aside from that I enjoyed said game. Lastly, Radiant Dawn just felt somewhat stagnant compared to the rest of the franchise, and failed to live up to Path of Radiance.

The Last Story and Pandora's I forgot were Nintendo published (add them to the list). The Conduit is a 3rd party game (it's Android port got better reviews, lol).

 

[nessokman]

1. Not as dumb as Nintendo blocking the stream or trying to get Melee removed from Evo 3 days prior (the latter which would have lead to lawsuits).
2. I would not buy the WiiU if Nintendo did that, because I've had it up to here with them. Their console games have been a huge letdown.
3. The only Nintendo-published Wii games that weren't let downs were Xenoblade Chronicles, Epic Yarn, Return to Dreamland, DKC Returns (which had terrible controls), and Metroid Prime 3.
4. I am literally only buying a WiiU for Smash, so why wouldn't I do that=???
5. Nintendo's youtube, streaming, and video sharing policies are crap, and which is why they got a dumped on for it. Nintendo turned into a mini-Microsoft there.
6. I'm surprised Sony didn't crap on them like they did on Microsoft, especially since the PS4 actually has a stream sponsor.

No reason to not buy Smash 4/5.....
Being a letdown is highly subjective, I enjoyed the Wii, I played all games you mentioned and a few more.
The funny thing with people saying that crap is that they think it actually has an impact. 500 Melee players won't buy Sm4sh? I guarantee there are double that in casuals to take their place. Life would move on, and it is ludicrous to do that because of a stupid stream of a decade old game.
Sony didn't have time, the DRM crap was out for weeks before it was changed, The smash streams were back in a few hours.

I'm sorry but Brawl's sale number disagree with that statement of failing. You need to remember that the competitive Smash community is very small compared to the rest of the people that play it. Brawl wasn't a failure in its objective either. Sakurai said that he made the game less competitive in order to draw in more people to the series. Which is why now he's speeding it up again since all the newbies are familiar with Smash. Plus saying that people will just give up on Nintendo because they don't have a GC controller to play the game with is ludicrous. Lots of people will just move on to the CC Pro of the Wii U Pro because their love for Nintendo and Smash totally outweighs their anger at not being able to use the GC controller

Quoted for truth-

No matter what the competitive community does, it doesn't have a big affect on the success. Weather brawl tanked is completely subjective as well, as sales wise it destroyed melee. So from a business perspective, brawl was a major success, and nothing the community can say will change that

 

[mimgrim]

Saving them from disaster? Yes. Saving them from dropping to second place? Doubtful, especially with the improved competition, the strength of the 3rd parties these days, and how 3rd parties have gone largely Western, which seems to be the 3rd parties Nintendo has the biggest troubles with.

I meant from disaster. lol. Yes it would be great for more 3rd part support for Nintendo, which they seem to be trying to do.

Nintendo needs more than great 3D Mario, Mario Kart, DK, Zelda (let alone a HD remake/port), Pikmin, SSB to keep themselves in the lead. They need 3rd parties too, and currently, they have very few, sans their deals with Platinum Games and SEGA (which at least is a very good start if their games are any good).

Nintendo is trying to get more 3rd part support but I think it's new terirtory for them so they need some time.

Galaxy 1 and 2 were too easy, too linear, and had too little replay value to be exceptional games. Mario Kart Wii nearly reached Super Monkey Ball territory with the lack of control you had. Aside from that I enjoyed said game. Lastly, Radiant Dawn just felt somewhat stagnant compared to the rest of the franchise, and failed to live up to Path of Radiance.

The Last Story and Pandora's I forgot were Nintendo published (add them to the list). The Conduit is a 3rd party game (it's Android port got better reviews, lol).

I've only been able to play the first Galaxy and enjoyed it rather good and find me self playing it from time to time. Not as much as other games but still, I wouldn't go so far as saying it was a major disapointment and it was a pretty good concept to.

Radiant Dawn to me only feels stagant when it comes to the story to an extent, but even then the story isn't horrible. However in terms of gameplay (aside from from the fact that it forces you to switch between teams making EXP management tough) it was the best and was graphically the best. And in terms of difficulty (which is an important part of FE) it far out passed the easieness of PoR. But still in terms of gamplay, graphics, and difficulty RD did a pretty well job and only ended up lacking a bit in the story.

I didn't realized Conduit got a android port. lol

 

[Double Helix]

I think that bringing up disappointments was just a bad plan. Too subjective. Objective arguments are ones we can work with without feeling like scum of the earth that didn't learn anything at least. In any case...is second place really that bad? I mean sure...the goal is first...but it seems like Nintendo has had a really loyal fanbase (considering the terrible decision-making overall). So all they are doing now is trying to expand on that fanbase. Knowing you are getting second this year (in a business sense) to set up for first place the next few seems reasonable. I am not saying that they will get first or that is their goal, but Nintendo should probably not sell better than competitors because if they do, they will continue to feel justified in the mistakes they are making.

We can also see that they are not used to having competition. Even when the Playstation came out alongside the N64, there were cross platform games AND enough games to warrent buying both consoles. Plus playing in a game world that has 3 dimensions? Hell yeah I will. Basically, if Nintendo stops selling as well as Sony and Microsoft, they could learn from it and pick up where they left off before they switched from the Official Nintendo Seal of Quality to the Official Nintendo Seal (mid-Gamecube era). Getting second place this generation might be a good thing for the fans of Nintendo (like myself, but the ps4 looks so good x.x).

 

[Johnknight1]

Idk man. Brawl is fine as a party game and had enough features to keep people interested if they didn't like it as well as a fighting game for Melee. Also...where is the proof that the C-stick responds BETTER than buttons.

The Project M crew did a study on it, as well as wired vs. wireless controllers. There's also been various studies by other smashers.

In any case...why buy a console for one game?

Because you really like said game. We call it a "killer app." Super Mario Bros., Sonic the Hedgehog, Super Mario World, loads of Zelda titles,Mario 64, GoldenEye, Melee, Halo, Pokémon everything, anything GTA, anything Wii Sports/Fit, Uncharted, Animal Crossing, Nintendogs, and Mario Kart Wii are all examples of killer apps that were the sole reason many people bought consoles.

I don't think I would ever pay $200+ for a game which is essentially what is going on.

Well then you obviously haven't loved a game so much you'd pay $200+ for it. I know once I get all my degrees a a career job, and a legit place of my own,, I'ma gonna get a ton of cubes and Melee copies, which in and of itself is at least an additional $200 investment at the least in my all-time favorite game.

However, Nintendo has games that are not exclusive.

But can they convince people to buy them without all the Wii "motion controls" hype in masses=??? That remains to be seen.

Many people bought a Wii and a 360/ps3 or all three, so why not do the same here?

Because the WiiU isn't appealing enough to lay down $300 for, aka the reason why so few have bought it currently=???

Either way, in terms of the console wars, they are irrelevant here.

Not if Nintendo loses the console wars, and stops making consoles.

Many of us love this company and want them to succeed.

I'm a gamer and a consumer; I just want the best games and consoles possible (without slave labor or crazy unhealthy hours for workers) presented in a way that is appealing to me. If Nintendo is unfit to survive in this territory, that is their problem, not mine. So long as I get my games and people keep getting jobs in the industry, it matters very little to me. After all, that is how business in a capitalists' world works.

a Gamecube controller would be great yes. Will it stop most of us from playing the game? Not a chance.

I never said that or implied that. My theory wasn't even a "the straw that broke the horses' back" theory; it was just an accumulation of bad news-based theory.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Look...all i'm gonna say is, if they can remake the Super Nintendo controller, why can't they remake the Gamecube controller? If Nintendo was so adamantly concerned with releasing a product that would counter the sales of their current generation devices then they shouldn't have made the classic controller. Hell, the Wii mote sideways is just a glorified NES controller. I don't get why people are speaking so much about adapting when they have been using their old control schemes right under your noses the whole time. There is really no excuse as to why they can't make one, or at least something vaguely similar to a GameCube Controller. I'm just saying everyone needs to look at the evidence presented thus far instead of conspicuously choosing which argument validates what.

 

[Double Helix]

Fair enough John. I mostly just couldn't afford a $200 game. Honestly...even if I buy a console for one game, I usually buy others that I would enjoy. The problem with Nintendo lately seems to have been game libraries, not hardware. I feel that if Nintendo just waited to release a console until they planned on having games out, it would be worth the original release price. For instance...the Wii had the potential to be the best third party console of its generation. The developers wouldn't have to worry about HD, they could map to the GC controller, and seriously, one of the most beautiful games of that generation was on the Wii. I guess I just took most of your posts to the extreme.

As for the tests, I don't really feel like looking them up, so I am going to ask you. How did the tests happen? Using smash attacks or aerials is hardly fair due to the need of the control stick also. I don't know, I guess I'm just not convinced.

@Eternal Phoenix Fire: you forgot to mention that the nunchuck was basically the middle part on the N64 controller that had the analog stick. Also, Nintendo did that without our asking, so shouldn't we trust them to make a good controller with a NEW look? That is my point here. I am not against old controllers, but writing off new ones seems like a bad idea too.

 

[Johnknight1]

Being a letdown is highly subjective

As are all of your opinions, my opinions, and heck, even that rooster's opinions.

Life would move on, and it is ludicrous to do that because of a stupid stream of a decade old game.

You mean a stream that peaked with more viewers than any fighting game before it=??? Or that had a guy enter it that won a "tournament" that got over 100 million viewers=??? (Taylor Hicks) Also, the stream was the biggest tournament of the games' history, one we as a community had worked 12 years for. If we couldn't record those matches, then Melee's tournament scene would go way downhill just like Brawl's did after Nintendo basically got Brawl kicked off the MLG circuit.

Oh and life does move on, as there are other games to play, and other things to experience. I could live without Smash if Nintendo went full Microsoft DRM with videos. I was willing to do that with Microsoft and their Xbox dOne policies, so doing it for Nintendo would show again that I am indifferent to companies that bully their consumer base.

Sony didn't have time, the DRM crap was out for weeks before it was changed, The smash streams were back in a few hours.

Smart move by Nintendo to cover their booties. Of course, Sony is taking the smarter move by giving "power to the players." Nintendo should copy Microsoft and follow this route with everything, including controllers, what games fans want, online features, and don't forget, region-locking!

 

[mimgrim]

that got over 100 million viewers=???

It didn't get over 100 mil viewers..... It got 134k viewer...... I don't have anything against your post, but I don't like it when people don't use the right facts. .-.

 

[Johnknight1]

It didn't get over 100 mil viewers..... It got 134k viewer...... I don't have anything against your post, but I don't like it when people don't use the right facts. .-.

"Tournament" was in quotation marks, because Taylor Hicks was on American Idol, which is a reality TV tournament, which he won. He entered Melee at Evo. I'm just saying that our little community apparently attracted the likes of a man who has been watched by over 100,000,000 people for his singing talents.

What Brawl backlash lol? The only ones who the backlash effected were the people who dont accept things they dont like or dont understand that Brawl isnt another game that people play religiously.... It sold well and is still played today, which is very good considering the lifespan of all the other games that immediately fade out. These people are once again an extreme minority.

Like I said before, I know tons of casual gamers who disliked Brawl, and thought it was rather generic and uninspired. As for the sales, it sold well because it was released in a perfect release window, it got major hype, and it was released at the peak of the Wii's hype. 11 million copies is nice, but compared to Melee's 7 million on a console that sold about 70 million less consoles, it is actually a very tiny jump.

The GameCube was kept in live in large part due to that game (although it wasn't as much alive as "not dead"), whereas on the Wii, Wii Sports Resorts and Mario Kart Wii have sold about thrice as many copies. Heck, both Wii Fit games sold about twice as many copies as Brawl! Oh, and that casual fan base has seemed to be non-existent in the 8th generation of gaming thus far, at least for the WiiU.

 

[mimgrim]

"Tournament" was in quotation marks, because Taylor Hicks was on American Idol, which is a reality TV tournament, which he won. He entered Melee at Evo. I'm just saying that our little community apparently attracted the likes of a man who has been watched by over 100,000,000 people for his singing talents.

Alright I misread what you typed. I thought you were saying evo had over a 100mil viewers. sorry.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

The thing that kills me about nessokan's argument is that he is willing to accept that Brawl was successful because is sold more than Melee overall, yet he says that a 12 year old game that had 135 thousand views doesn't matter. That's hypocritical; you can't state that statistics/numbers means something towards something you defend then render the same argument irrelevant because it's something you don't support. See what I mean, conspicuous bull **** arguing.

nessokan you should just dip from this thread, you're turning it into a Melee vs Brawl thread when it's about a controller, one might I ass, that is used for Brawl also.

 

[nessokman]

As are all of your opinions, my opinions, and heck, even that rooster's opinions.

You mean a stream that peaked with more viewers than any fighting game before it=??? Or that had a guy enter it that won a "tournament" that got over 100 million viewers=??? (Taylor Hicks) Also, the stream was the biggest tournament of the games' history, one we as a community had worked 12 years for. If we couldn't record those matches, then Melee's tournament scene would go way downhill just like Brawl's did after Nintendo basically got Brawl kicked off the MLG circuit.

Oh and life does move on, as there are other games to play, and other things to experience. I could live without Smash if Nintendo went full Microsoft DRM with videos. I was willing to do that with Microsoft and their Xbox dOne policies, so doing it for Nintendo would show again that I am indifferent to companies that bully their consumer base.

Smart move by Nintendo to cover their booties. Of course, Sony is taking the smarter move by giving "power to the players." Nintendo should copy Microsoft and follow this route with everything, including controllers, what games fans want, online features, and don't forget, region-locking!

Taylor Hicks??? I remember I hated him with a passion on Idol.Voted for the girl he was against :I

It took 12 years?admire your tenacity.
/sarcasm

Smash would be just as well off without a competitive scene, FACT! Casuals will still flock to the mario beats up link (not possible)

Nintendo is still better off than microsoft, as microsoft's DRM has left a bad taste in a lot of gamer's mouths. As my favorite youtuber alphaomegasin said that he is hesitant to get Xbox 1 because if they can do it, they can do it again, Like waiting for people to buy it and then giving a forced patch to bring back all the policies.

 

[Johnknight1]

.

Nintendo is trying to get more 3rd part support but I think it's new terirtory for them so they need some time.

Well if they need "more time," then they shouldn't have released their console so soon.

Smash would be just as well off without a competitive scene, FACT!

What is "well off"=??? And who made you the God to define that=???

Most videos and livestreams of smash these days are from tournaments or competitive players, FACT!

Smash IS more popular with a "competitive scene" FACT!

Also, what is a "competitive scene"=??? Competitive = playing to win. Seriously, who in the heck plays to lose=???

I mean, I'm no NBA player, but I play basketball, and I don't play trying to lose.

 

[nessokman]

.
Well if they need "more time," then they shouldn't have released their console so soon.

What is "well off"=??? And who made you the God to define that=???

Most videos and livestreams of smash these days are from tournaments or competitive players, FACT!

Smash IS more popular with a "competitive scene" FACT!

Also, what is a "competitive scene"=??? Competitive = playing to win. Seriously, who in the heck plays to lose=???

I mean, I'm no NBA player, but I play basketball, and I don't play trying to lose.

The competitive scene doesn't define what smash is, It would be just as good without competitive players, no matter what you say.

Most streams are, your point?

I play to lose, mostly just trolling team members online

 

[Double Helix]

Smash may not be just as well off without a competitive scene. And yes it took us 12 years because the FGC did not accept us, but we loved the game enough to keep it alive. But for people who are looking for a competitive game, they would go to a different game franchise. I am not saying it would fail, but it probably would not be as successful as it is now. While this is a party game, it is also a fighting game, therefore the competitive community will want to have the newest game in the series. Melee players from the competitive scene bought Brawl. Some still play it. Some switched to it competitively. Some stopped playing it because they liked Melee better.

 

[Double Helix]

Oops...double post for some reason

 

[Johnknight1]

Look...all i'm gonna say is, if they can remake the Super Nintendo controller, why can't they remake the Gamecube controller? If Nintendo was so adamantly concerned with releasing a product that would counter the sales of their current generation devices then they shouldn't have made the classic controller.

Which is why I am playing the heel roll of just being impersonal; because people who come into this thread and never come back don't understand this.

Alright I misread what you typed. I thought you were saying evo had over a 100mil viewers. sorry.

That's because you fell for my trap card!

The competitive scene doesn't define what smash is,

Competitive players self-define what Smash is to them though, the same way causal smashers do as well, and the same way you and I don't define it. Super Smash Bros. is ultimate 3 pieces of plastic-based materials and digital framework that works together to create a comprehensive and yet simple problem for users, aka a video game.

 

[Double Helix]

Oh defining Smash. Can we do that? How about a party game with so many customization options it can be a fighting game? Or...maybe a social means of making friends with nerds that are as passionate about a children's party game as you are? Or...a video game we shouldn't care about because Call of Duty? Or...Fox only Final Destination? Or...a grown man's excuse to be a kid with other grown men?

Whatever you define it as...I may not agree...but I love the game as much or more so than you do. Mostly because that is hard to refute or measure so I will always make that claim. It is the perfect argument, because people who call me wrong look dumb for starting an argument. Yeah! I win!

Also...John...I hate you. That trap card just cost me the game. =P Also you shouldn't play the heel. Leave that to FilipinoChamp

 

[Double Helix]

Double post again because this campus' internet is so awesome, I need to wait forever or just double post.

 

[Johnknight1]

Super Smash Brothers is a platformer-inspired fighting game franchise/series/IP that functions essentially as a 2D Mario game "upgrade" with fighting game-like attacks. It can be played as a party game or in the fiercest competition. On top of being a platformer-inspired fighting game, Super Smash Brothers has elements of a party game, shooters (rail shooters and third person shooters), strategy games (just a bit), action games, hack 'n' slash games, and beat em 'up games.

The goal of Super Smash Brothers is to beat your opponent by "KO'ing" them off the stage, or to not allow them to recover on a surface, and thus get KO'd.

Ultimately, Super Smash Brothers is a genre bender that can be played in a plethora of different ways with several different gameplay modes.

It would be just as good without competitive players, no matter what you say.

Again, I don't know how you could make that call, especially without knowing the difference between competitive and casual play, and having legit definitions of each to where you could label each of the tens of millions of smash bros fans around the globe as one or the other.

Also, competition is what makes smash great: we compete against each other. You play to win, even at the "casual" level. The fact that you say with or without certain gamers who enjoy smash and enjoy each other playing smash as if you are 100% right shows how naive and close-minded you are.

As for actual competitions (aka tournaments), there is a certain level of passion there that is nothing but good for the game, which ironically can be found (albeit in smaller bits) on peoples' couches and in peoples' living rooms in a less competitive/win-orientated environment. Saying either is "bad" for smash and/or the smash community is stupid. Both are necessary for smash to remain popular, and rise in popularity.

 

[nessokman]

Again, I don't know how you could make that call, especially without knowing the difference between competitive and casual play, and having legit definitions of each to where you could label each of the tens of millions of smash bros fans around the globe as one or the other.

Also, competition is what makes smash great: we compete against each other. You play to win, even at the "casual" level. The fact that you say with or without certain gamers who enjoy smash and enjoy each other playing smash as if you are 100% right shows how naive and close-minded you are.

As for actual competitions (aka tournaments), there is a certain level of passion there that is nothing but good for the game, which ironically can be found (albeit in smaller bits) on peoples' couches and in peoples' living rooms in a less competitive/win-orientated environment. Saying either is "bad" for the smash community is stupid.

saying competition is what makes it great is again subjective. 64 did well with NO competitive scene, well enough for a sequel. Smash would do just as well without competitive play, 64 didn't have a huge ass competitive scene and like i said it did well.

Never said competitive is bad- I said we can live without, and that is true, as 64 did so.

 

[Johnknight1]

saying competition is what makes it great is again subjective. 64 did well with NO competitive scene, well enough for a sequel. Smash would do just as well without competitive play, 64 didn't have a huge *** competitive scene and like i said it did well.

64 did have a competitive scene, although one that is primitive to ours, and the rules were completely different.

In fact, SmashBoards was made to "connect" those tournaments, which is what it did with Melee, and it was a resounding success. In fact, not just did it connect those tournaments, it made East Coast vs. West Coast rivalries, Canada/Europe/Australia/Japan vs. America rivalries, and ultimate became a forum that connected the communities until ultimately all those worlds collided at big tournaments, including those run by MLG and Evo.

SmashBoards helped standardize rules, change gameplay, lead to faster development of skill, faster discovery of techniques and their usefulness, and just ultimately turned the game into something a community could be built around.

 

[nessokman]

64 did have a competitive scene, although one that is primitive to ours, and the rules were completely different.

In fact, SmashBoards was made to "connect" those tournaments, which is what it did with Melee, and it was a resounding success. In fact, not just did it connect those tournaments, it made East Coast vs. West Coast rivalries, Canada/Europe/Australia/Japan vs. America rivalries, and ultimate became a forum that connected the communities until ultimately all those worlds collided at big tournaments, including those run by MLG and Evo.

SmashBoards helped standardize rules, change gameplay, lead to faster development of skill, faster discovery of techniques and their usefulness, and just ultimately turned the game into something a community could be built around.

How did we get to smashboards :I But nobody/few bought 64 to play competitively, it all started casual and it did fine, thus getting the "All mighty perfection that is Melee" /sarcasm

 

[Double Helix]

I don't know man. Two brothers playing Smash casually is only a little less dangerous than any four people playing Mario Party. It gets so competitive that it can permanently damage the relationship. I have seen brothers fist fight over Smash, and while that is not the representation of Smash we want, casuals have competitive spririt too. Just because we are the "competitive scene" and they are "the casuals" there will always be a big fish small pond where the other fish wanna take down the big fish of the area. I mean, without a competitive scene, I would still be playing Melee and probably searching the internet for ways to get better. Or finding ways out on my own. Basically you are saying, "Smash can live without a huge part of its fanbase." Or at least, thats how it reads for me. Smash 64 didn't have a competitive scene because it was barely out for a couple of years before the sequel (if I remember correctly).

The only thing I could see being true about Smash without the competitive scene is Brawl might be a better game (from my viewpoint, a Melee player) because Sakurai would have little reason to change what was good about Melee (and probably no tripping).

 

[Double Helix]

How did we get to smashboards :I But nobody/few bought 64 to play competitively, it all started casual and it did fine, thus getting the "All mighty perfection that is Melee" /sarcasm

Lol @ Melee being perfect. If it were perfect I could Z-cancel from 64 and do attacks out of Up-B. Also crouch cancelling wouldn't exist. But different people like different things. I personally just hate crouch cancelling, love light shielding, and enjoy the depth and technical ceiling of the game. Those who do NOT like the technical prowess of the game can play Brawl, which focuses heavily on patience, spacing, and other great fighting game fundamentals. Those who like UMvC3 can play Smash64 and combo everybody to death.

The great thing about the Smash games is that they are so different. While I am not a huge fan of Brawl and would only play casually, I understand it is tough to be good at. And Smash64 would be ssbm (super smash bros. marvel) if melee wasnt already ssbm. XD

 

[nessokman]

I don't know man. Two brothers playing Smash casually is only a little less dangerous than any four people playing Mario Party. It gets so competitive that it can permanently damage the relationship. I have seen brothers fist fight over Smash, and while that is not the representation of Smash we want, casuals have competitive spririt too. Just because we are the "competitive scene" and they are "the casuals" there will always be a big fish small pond where the other fish wanna take down the big fish of the area. I mean, without a competitive scene, I would still be playing Melee and probably searching the internet for ways to get better. Or finding ways out on my own. Basically you are saying, "Smash can live without THE MINORITY of its fanbase." Or at least, thats how it reads for me. Smash 64 didn't have a competitive scene because it was barely out for a couple of years before the sequel (if I remember correctly).

The only thing I could see being true about Smash without the competitive scene is Brawl might be a better game (from my viewpoint, a Melee player) because Sakurai would have little reason to change what was good about Melee (and probably no tripping).

Fixed that post.