Petitioning Nintendo: Develop a Gamecube controller style Wii U controller

[mimgrim]

Not wanting =/= being unable to adapt. o_O

But really GC controller is over rated, sure it is good and I use to think that same way. But the CCP works just as good for me and I even find it more comfortable now. o_O

 

[Johnknight1]

I find it funny only non-competitive players like the other controllers more. The Classic Controller Pro is nice, but it's not great (that C-stick), plus, I don't think it is wired. The WiiU Pro Controller is weird. We got adapters for the best controller for smash, so we competitive players will stick to that, or a better option that comes up. Who knows=??? Maybe the wired Madcatz controller (which I need to try out) will be better than the GameCube controller.

sad and pathetic...

Even if you get enough signatures, Nintendo can still shoot the idea down. Look how "well" the the Anti-Region Locking Campaign went.

1. How is sad that people want a new GameCube controller that they are willing to pay $50 for=??? If enough people want it, a smart business man will make it and sell it.

2. Nintendo can shoot the idea down like the Anti-Region Lock Campaign (which makes them look stupid; they're the only of the Big Three doing it), there's a chance we could flood them, like what the backlash to the youtube ad policy and the Melee stream being taken down from Evo did. After all, ultimately without consumers decides what dies and lives; if Nintendo doesn't give the consumers what they want, they will die, especially with a system faltering like the WiiU is.

3. Who died and made your sorry butt God of what is right and wrong=???

 

[INs4niTY-]

I love the GC controller but its not perfect and one of the reasons is the C-Stick honestly I think most of us like the C-Stick so much is because we have over 10 years using it
it just seems like some people are not willing to give another controller a chance lets wait for Smash4 to come out and see how the new controller does with Smash

I think the C-Stick was great for smash, not really good for other games though I agree. Since using the C-Stick in smash doesn't require you to hold it in a position or need any accuracy so it was good, it's more of a quick flick more than anything. The small yellow button or whatever that is made that easier to do, I'd say it's faster to flick the C-Stick in all directions than a normal analogue because of the size.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Yes, they are. You said adapt to new things, so I brought up a potential new thing. If you don't want terrible Smash games, then you can't adapt. =P

Not really the same. Adapting to a different but essentially equivalent controller is different from adapting to an inferior product. The former is reliant on the user changing his own behavior, whereas in the latter instance, it's not the user's fault that the product sucks.

Now you COULD argue that the Wii U Pro Controller is somehow inferior to the GC controller, but that's far more subjective.

 

[INs4niTY-]

Double post

 

[Johnknight1]

The function of a button is entirely reliant on the function that is mapped to it. In smash, The C-stick functions as button in Smash because the result is an immediate, momentary instance. But the C-stick functions as a method of controlling the camera in games like Wind Waker.

The C-stick functions as both a camera controller and a quick input button, which is something I don't think I've seen in gaming. The PlayStation controller functions similarly, but not nearly as efficiently as a button, or as well in fighting games.

I don't really see how it's any different to map Smash attacks to a conventional control stick.

It doesn't respond anywhere near as quickly, and you have to force it in there, which thus leads to a significant increase in mistakes, especially if a game is high paced like Smash 64 and Melee (and not slower paced and about timing like Brawl). Also, the angles for it are really funky, and pushing in the wrong input is a lot easier.

If you doubt me, just try using a Classic Controller Pro, a WiiU Pro Controller, or a GameCube controller's control sticks and compare it to the GameCube controller's C-stick. I've done the comparison, and none of those controllers' control sticks comes close to the direct input for attacking and functioning as a quick/sleek smash bros. button as the C-stick, especially in context of how it is used in smash bros.

 

[Sashimi]

Because the C-stick functions as essentially a button, whereas the control stick functions to move your character or the camera. The two have totally different functions. Switching from a C-stick to a control stick like the WiiU Pro Controller's in regards to smash is literally using a control stick to replace a button. That sounds rather odd and undesirable, doesn't it=???

The c-stick was also used for camera control, even in Smash (1-player). There's nothing about the C-stick that makes it different from any other stick aside from the size, since the GC control stick also had an octagon rather than a circle. I really don't know what you mean by "the C-stick functions as essentially a button." It's a stick, not a button, and you can do anything with a regular stick that you could do with the c-stick.

I'd much rather have a wired pro controller than an imitation GC controller.

 

[mimgrim]

I find it funny only non-competitive players like the other controllers more. The Classic Controller Pro is nice, but it's not great (that C-stick), plus, I don't think it is wired. The WiiU Pro Controller is weird. We got adapters for the best controller for smash, so we competitive players will stick to that, or a better option that comes up. Who knows=??? Maybe the wired Madcatz controller (which I need to try out) will be better than the GameCube controller.

It's funny how you assume only non-competitive players feel like that, yet I wouldn't call anyone on this site a non-competitive player. And do you know what they say about assuming?

 

[Dark Phazon]

No offense OP But this is more useless than the char threads...thats all i gotta say about this topic...RealTalk..will never happen.

 

[Johnknight1]

It's funny how you assume only non-competitive players feel like that, yet I wouldn't call anyone on this site a non-competitive player. And do you know what they say about assuming?

I was more referring to people here who I know for a fact aren't competitive players, and the usual people who moan and complain about people still using the GCN controller. It is rather annoying having to tell them that competitive players want quicker and more efficient buttons that don't mess up other things.

I'm sure there's competitive players who prefer the CC, CCP, or WPC, but they aren't the majority. I imagine those controllers will be used more in tournaments (if they don't mess up and get crazy frequency issues; this can be fixed by WIRED CONTROLLERS! You hear me Nintendo! WIRED!), but the GCN controller will always be the norm for Smash WiiU, again, unless that Madcatz controller is great (I need to try that thing).

 

[mimgrim]

The C-stick functions as both a camera controller and a quick input button, which is something I don't think I've seen in gaming. The PlayStation controller functions similarly, but not nearly as efficiently as a button, or as well in fighting games.

It doesn't respond anywhere near as quickly, and you have to force it in there, which thus leads to a significant increase in mistakes, especially if a game is high paced like Smash 64 and Melee (and not slower paced and about timing like Brawl). Also, the angles for it are really funky, and pushing in the wrong input is a lot easier.

If you doubt me, just try using a Classic Controller Pro, a WiiU Pro Controller, or a GameCube controller's control sticks and compare it to the GameCube controller's C-stick. I've done the comparison, and none of those controllers' control sticks comes close to the direct input for attacking and functioning as a quick/sleek smash bros. button as the C-stick, especially in context of how it is used in smash bros.

I', guessing you never played Pikmin. In that game the C-Stick is used to move your Pikmin around and is nothing like a button. It is used a control stick for that game. Also I have played both on the GC and CCP, they both react at the same speed for me. I don't see what your problem is. .-.

 

[Artsy Omni]

I think the only advantage the C-stick has is that it's less intrusive. Meaning its easier to get your thumb around to the bottom of it because it doesn't have a normal analog stick head and is therefore much shorter. But it's for that very reason that it's not great for the functions of a normal analog stick, because it doesn't provide as much precision due to the top of the stick being closer to the base.

So I guess one could argue that the C-stick is awesome for Smash, but pretty much crap for every other game that utilizes dual analog functionality. =P

EDIT: "pretty much crap" is obviously hyperbole. It is less optimal than a taller stick for precision movement.

 

[Johnknight1]

I', guessing you never played Pikmin. In that game the C-Stick is used to move your Pikmin around and is nothing like a button. It is used a control stick for that game. Also I have played both on the GC and CCP, they both react at the same speed for me. I don't see what your problem is. .-.

The C-stick, again, functinos as both a control stick (most often for cameras) and as a button/input. It's really weird how it works. And as for the Pikmin movement, I have played Pikmin, and it does feel a little awkward, which is why the C-stick is best used for extra inputs. Honestly, maybe just having 2 control sticks and a C-stick should be the way for Nintendo to go, or having 2 different controllers.

So I guess one could argue that the C-stick is awesome for Smash, but pretty much crap for every other game that utilizes dual analog functionality. =P

EDIT: "pretty much crap" is obviously hyperbole. It is less optimal than a taller stick for precision movement.

Eh, depends the game, and how it is used. The C-stick as a character moving control stick is stupid, but as a camera control stick, it works great.

 

[Artsy Omni]

Crap, wrong button. >_>

 

[Johnknight1]

Crap, wrong button. >_>

Should have used a C-stick, not a Pro Controller.

 

[Reznor]

Because the C-stick functions as essentially a button, whereas the control stick functions to move your character or the camera. The two have totally different functions. Switching from a C-stick to a control stick like the WiiU Pro Controller's in regards to smash is literally using a control stick to replace a button. That sounds rather odd and undesirable, doesn't it=???

Arcade sticks may not be the ideal change, but for people addicted to them, I think they'll bring them to smash. I expect to see more of those than Wiimotes, Wiimote and Nunchuck, and Classic Controllers at tournaments.

but the C-Stick does move a camera in a lot of games and I don't see how its a button still playing with mine right now just feels like a small stick but maybe i'm just not grasping something I should

I think the C-Stick was great for smash, not really good for other games though I agree. Since using the C-Stick in smash doesn't require you to hold it in a position or need any accuracy so it was good, it's more of a quick flick more than anything. The small yellow button or whatever that is made that easier to do, I'd say it's faster to flick the C-Stick in all directions than a normal analogue because of the size.

but with other sticks you don't have to hold it in position

not saying the Gamecube controller is bad and we need to use a new controller and i'm not saying the gamecube controller is what we must use i'm just saying we might wanna try smash 4 with the new controller

one last thing its funny how its mostly the new members that want the new one and older members who want the old one their are some exceptions though

 

[Johnknight1]

The c-stick was also used for camera control, even in Smash (1-player). There's nothing about the C-stick that makes it different from any other stick aside from the size, since the GC control stick also had an octagon rather than a circle. I really don't know what you mean by "the C-stick functions as essentially a button." It's a stick, not a button, and you can do anything with a regular stick that you could do with the c-stick.

I'd much rather have a wired pro controller than an imitation GC controller.

1. The camera thing was only used for a bunch of single-player modes, and no one liked that, which is why that wasn't in Brawl.

2. It functions as a quicker input than pushing other buttons, and unlike pushing say down air with A and the control stick, it won't make you drop, which helps with DI, and gives you more options with movements in regards to your attack (plus you now have two options; to DI and attack a tad slower or not DI and attack a tad faster thanks to the two potential inputs with the A button+Control stick or down with C-stick [in the air]).

3. I haven't tried the MadCatz controller yet, but I don't know. I do know I prefer the C-stick to the alternatives, however. And MadCatz makes some incredible controllers; their fighting game arcade pads/sticks are some of the best controllers you can find for fighting games.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Not wanting =/= being unable to adapt. o_O

But really GC controller is over rated, sure it is good and I use to think that same way. But the CCP works just as good for me and I even find it more comfortable now. o_O

*pats your back* As someone who has been in your shoes before in a previous topic like this, I feel your pain. :<

I, too, love the CCP moreso than the Gamecube Controller and feel it works even better than it and is more comfy to hold and more useful for competitive gameplay or gameplay as a whole. The Gamecube controller is just too clunky now. It's horribly outdated.

 

[Johnknight1]

the only things I would change about the GameCube would be to make the B button bigger, make a select and home button on the thing (with an off switch for the home button), make the L and R buttons smaller, make 2 Z-buttons (make them L-1 and R-1), and make the 2 Z-buttons now curve into the controller like the L and R button. Oh, and make the control pad more functional, like a mix of the Xbox controller gamepad and the new Nintendo controllers' control pad.

That IMO would be a near-perfect "update' of the GameCube controller for the WiiU.

but the C-Stick does move a camera in a lot of games and I don't see how its a button still playing with mine right now just feels like a small stick but maybe i'm just not grasping something I should

Well you're thinking in terms of other games; I'm talking in smash. In Smash, a C-stick works better than a control stick as a button/input command.

but with other sticks you don't have to hold it in position

For what=??? The C-stick responds as a button input much faster.

not saying the Gamecube controller is bad and we need to use a new controller and i'm not saying the gamecube controller is what we must use i'm just saying we might wanna try smash 4 with the new controller

I already tried the other Wii and WiiU controllers (sans the 3rd party controllers for the WiiU), and none of them are nearly as good IMO.

one last thing its funny how its mostly the new members that want the new one and older members who want the old one their are some exceptions though

It is because a lot of newer members are casual smashers, and most of them don't understand the desire for faster button input in smash, and why that is crucial to us, and how it makes the game better (faster inputs = quicker movement and attacks = more combos and potential for exciting crazy stuff).

 

[grizby2]

many arcade games get their arcade joystick-type controllers remade.... all the time, so why cant smash bros get their own as well?

ive been playing video games for 20 years, and the GC controller has one of the best laid-out button schemes ive ever used.
then the next generation comes, and my hands are spread 1 and 1/2 feet apart from eachother.

Spoiler

"get used to it and adapt" you say? well I say "don't fix what isn't broken"

 

[Sashimi]

2. It functions as a quicker input than pushing other buttons, and unlike pushing say down air with A and the control stick, it won't make you drop, which helps with DI, and gives you more options with movements in regards to your attack (plus you now have two options; to DI and attack a tad slower or not DI and attack a tad faster thanks to the two potential inputs with the A button+Control stick or down with C-stick [in the air]).

I still don't understand what makes the c-stick different from any other stick. You can do all of that with the second stick on other controllers.

Edit: For the record, I'm not opposed to people using GC controllers. I really like the GC layout, in fact (especially ABXY).

 

[Johnknight1]

many arcade games get their arcade joystick-type controllers remade.... all the time, so why cant smash bros get their own as well?

ive been playing video games for 20 years, and the GC controller has one of the best laid-out button schemes ive ever used.
then the next generation comes, and my hands are spread 1 and 1/2 feet apart from eachother.

Spoiler

"get used to it and adapt" you say? well I say "don't fix what isn't broken"

Exactly; the controller is great, and seeing as how over 7 million copies of Melee were sold and over 11 million copies of Brawl were sold (thus making them the two best-selling fighting games of all-time), making a controller or updated controller for said games isn't crazy. This is especially true since most people still prefer the GameCube controller in Brawl over the other 3 controller options.

Heck, if Mario Kart 7 can kinda sorta get its' own controller thing with the wheel, why can't smash get its' own updated version of the GameCube controller=???

 

[Reznor]

Well you're thinking in terms of other games; I'm talking in smash. In Smash, a C-stick works better than a control stick as a button/input command.

well I've never played with any controller (that isn't the GC controller) long enough to compare it to the GC controller so i'm mostly just assuming

For what=??? The C-stick responds as a button input much faster.

wait really? I thought all the sticks responded at the same speed

I already tried the other Wii and WiiU controllers (sans the 3rd party controllers for the WiiU), and none of them are nearly as good IMO.

wait with smash?
and if so with smash it would have to have been brawl but the new game might play different

It is because a lot of newer members are casual smashers, and most of them don't understand the desire for faster button input in smash, and why that is crucial to us, and how it makes the game better (faster inputs = quicker movement and attacks = more combos and potential for exciting crazy stuff).

sadly I think i'm a noob/noobish now seeing as I took a 3 year break from smash (because my bro owned it and we both moved out of our parents house and just recently bought a wii)

honestly i'll try to use a GC controller for Smash4 without trying out the new controller if some one can convince me its better over all for a game we haven't played yet (stranger things have happened so i'm open to the idea)

 

[Johnknight1]

wait with smash?

No, just for other games and testing it with it/the console turned off. It works nice for other games, but not smash (sans the CCP, which I still prefer the GCNC to).

sadly I think i'm a noob/noobish now seeing as I took a 3 year break from smash (because my bro owned it and we both moved out of our parents house and just recently bought a wii)

honestly i'll try to use a GC controller for Smash4 without trying out the new controller if some one can convince me its better over all for a game we haven't played yet (stranger things have happened so i'm open to the idea)

Nothing wrong with not being the best, and no need to sound apologetic about it; smash is like ice cream covered with chocolate flavored carrots... how can it be bad for you, no matter how you make it=???

As for the controllers, I suggest you try them out for yourself before reaching a judgment, at least in other games.

I still don't understand what makes the c-stick different from any other stick. You can do all of that with the second stick on other controllers.

Faster inputs, better control, and less of a chance to mess up inputs. Really, typical control sticks aren't made for fighting game inputs, sans maybe the Dual Shock PlayStation controllers.

 

[mimgrim]

John I understand why you like the GC controller better and why it feels more comfortable with you. My only real grip with you is that you keep saying the C-Stick responds faste, which for me has been false.

I've played Brawl with both the GC controller and CCP. The second stick on the CCP reacts just as fast as the C-Stick for Smash Attacks, really. Heck I even went as far to asing the both sticks to Specials instead because I know that with the CCP if you try to tilt the second stick twice while it is set to special commands and if you tilt them fast enough right after the other it causes you to jump instead, the C-Stick had the same problem to then, I originally set the second stick to Special because there where a few characters that I felt might benefit from it more then having it as a easy Smash attack thing (Toon Link and Olimar being the main 2) and it actually worked quite good I just had to be carful to not be stick happy with it. But I'm rambiling now, all in all I have seen no difference in peformance between the second stick of the CCP and the C-Stick of the GCC. :/

 

[grizby2]

wait really? I thought all the sticks responded at the same speed

theres a certain feel with the c-stick, mainly because it sits below your thumb as apposed to above it. your thumb can swiftly move to the c-stick in a downwards motion (which is more natural on the thumb). I think that's what john is trying to say.
its usually used for D-airs (helps for spiking people without fast falling by accident) and not moving in a direction you do not desire while perfoming an attack that would otherwise move you in that direction (using F-air while moving backwards).
pretty handy. oops, a pun ~

 

[mimgrim]

theres a certain feel with the c-stick, mainly because it sits below your thumb as apposed to above it. your thumb can swiftly move to the c-stick in a downwards motion (which is more natural on the thumb). I think that's what john is trying to say.
its usually used for D-airs (helps for spiking people without fast falling by accident) and not moving in a direction you do not desire while perfoming an attack that would otherwise move you in that direction (using F-air while moving backwards).
pretty handy. oops, a pun ~

And here's the kicker, on the CCP the second stick is below your thumb meaning you thumb is going in a downwards motion. What it seems like he is saying is the C-Stick reacts faster then a regular second stick. But in my expirence of both controllers that hasn't been the case as the second stick on the CCP reacts just as fast and is positioned relativitly the same as the C-Strick from the GCC. The main difference between the GCC and CCP is that the right stick is low andf the button layout is different. The former is really easy to adapt to while the latter just requires the patience of finding a comfortable button layout for yourself (like for me Y = Attack, X = Special, B = Jump, and A = Grab). Now I'm not saying people have to use the CCP or that the CCP is factually better then the GCC (as that just comes down to personal prefrence) but the CCP can be a really great controller if you can find the ABYX layout that is comfortable for you. But again my main gripe is the statement of the C-Stick reacting faster then a regular second stick when in my experience of playing both the GCC and CCP that they react equally fast.

 

[Smur]

I never EVER sign petitions, but maybe this just might work...or at least show Nintendo how much the fans want it. COME ON GAIS, YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO GIVE YOUR REAL ADDRESS. DOITDOITDOITDOIT

 

[Missingno03]

Honestly, I'd just like the option of a wired controller so as to not cause problems at events like tourneys and such. I'm willing to learn new controllers, I've been doing that for years. But, having wired controllers makes the competitive scene a whole lot easier to set up and it would be nice to know that this is at least taken into consideration.

 

[Missingno03]

sorry double post

 

[Johnknight1]

I've played Brawl with both the GC controller and CCP. The second stick on the CCP reacts just as fast as the C-Stick for Smash Attacks, really.

I doubt Smash WiiU will be as slow as Brawl. And I've tried the CCP on Project M, and there is a noticeable difference in timing, and it doesn't have that fast paced "sleek" feel, and it kind of makes pushing a lot of buttons feel a little bit off without that "sleekness."

theres a certain feel with the c-stick, mainly because it sits below your thumb as apposed to above it. your thumb can swiftly move to the c-stick in a downwards motion (which is more natural on the thumb). I think that's what john is trying to say.

This sums it up nicely.

 

[Lugubrious]

In the petition it clearly acknowledges the existent of that adapter so you didn't read it and assumed it was nonsense. The reason is to be able to buy a stand alone controller without adapters which is much better. If you don't like the idea then simply ignore it

I genuinely apologize. Next time I'll read the information. I'll be on my way.

 

[Curmudgeon]

that benefits us all

Haha, not at all

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again
YOU NEED TO ADAPT TO SURVIVE

 

[mimgrim]

I doubt Smash WiiU will be as slow as Brawl. And I've tried the CCP on Project M, and there is a noticeable difference in timing, and it doesn't have that fast paced "sleek" feel, and it kind of makes pushing a lot of buttons feel a little bit off without that "sleekness."

Hrmmm, I can't say about PM as I don't have access to it in anyway. But on that note I also doubt Smash4 will be as fast as Melee just as I agree that it won't be as slow as Brawl. Sakurai said he was going for a middle ground of speed so whether or not this will be an issue for Smash4 will need to wait to be seen if it is one. Still, I wish I could test this for myself on PM just to see the difference. X_X Any chance you could do a video showing the difference? o.o

 

[DraginHikari]

I can't really speak much on the differences in the controllers since I lack the hand coorination to ever use the C-stick effectively, but realistically if people are going to continue to use older controllers a third party method or player created method will be found to perform this. It's extremely unlikely Nintendo will do this petition or not mostly there probably all sorts of nonsense that comes along with any design they release.

 

[nessokman]

Melee fan logic: We will use the gamecube controller, and that controller alone. Any other controller is obsolete, even if we have to make adapters for the wii u without giving the control scheme a chance. We will have GAMECUBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, there is no need to have an ancient controller, the pro controller will work fine

 

[INs4niTY-]

The people who want to use GC controllers are focusing on the fact they want that controller and are not slating other controllers. So what if we want the old controller. Don't fix what's not broken is the logic we are using quite clearly.

 

[mimgrim]

Melee fan logic: We will use the gamecube controller, and that controller alone. Any other controller is obsolete, even if we have to make adapters for the wii u without giving the control scheme a chance. We will have GAMECUBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, there is no need to have an ancient controller, the pro controller will work fine

Stop stereotyping please. It's more then just Melee fans. Many Brawl fans don't feel comfortable with a controller other then the GCC either. Plus the way you put it is just wrong and makes you know better then the vocal minority of the Melee players you are whining about.

 

[Snakeyes]

(in which the Xbox controller is way overrated; the PlayStation controller is so much better IMO that it's almost laughable to compare the two).

The Dualshock is garbage for anything that requires precise inputs.

 

[TreK]

Melee fan logic: We will use the gamecube controller, and that controller alone. Any other controller is obsolete, even if we have to make adapters for the wii u without giving the control scheme a chance. We will have GAMECUBE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, there is no need to have an ancient controller, the pro controller will work fine

The other controllers are not as good. I've tested all of them when my first controller broke and I couldn't get a new one for 3 months. I also play Injustice on a XBOX pad which has all the features I dislike about the CC Pro but that's mainly because I'm broke as hell and can't afford an arcade stick.
My worst gripe about the CCP is the lack of this little octagon shaped thingy that makes controls instantly 10 times more precise. But in a Smash game, where you have a 'main attack button', it also makes sense to have a 'main button' in the first place, so I don't see how they could top the GC pad's button layout in that regard. They could design the game around the new control scheme, of course. That'd be great actually.
It's okay if they give us something else that's even better. Why would you even doubt that lol
It's just very unlikely that they'd understand such a complicated request, let alone accept it. So petitioning for the return of the GC pad is a good place to start.

Gosh, I do sound like a Melee kid today.