People need to understand the real reason for our disappointment:

[Wyvern]

I've seen a lot of people on this board (and others) shouting about how the people who are disappointed with the final Brawl roster are just whining because their one favorite character wasn't in, or because nothing short of a 50-character of roster would have been enough for them, or other condescending crap like that. That's NOT why we're unhappy...at least not most of us.

Anyone who comes to Smashboards can see that there are literally hundreds of character support threads filled with people who would love to see one cool character or another. We all knew that it was going to be impossible for the roster to include everything. I wasn't expecting a roster that was perfect. All I wanted was a roster that I could look at and say, "Well, it might not have everything, but I can tell from these choices that they did the best they could with the time and resources they had." Nothing more.

That is NOT what I am seeing here. Young Link with his same cloned Link moves, with no cool new Wind Waker items like the Deku Leaf or Skull Hammer. Fox in the game three times over to the exclusion of many cool and unique alternatives. This does NOT say "best effort" to me. I'm not sure if it even says "laziness". It says they just didn't care about making the best of what they had. They didn't care about uniqueness or diversity in the playable characters. They spent all this time and effort on all these random modes and features, but couldn't be bothered with properly planning out the single most important aspect of the game?

If they only have enough time and resources to make 35 characters, then fine. I can accept that easily. But use that time to make the best 35-character roster you can! "Let's spend our precious time adding a clone of a clone of Fox" is not the thing a competent developer has any right to say when you have those sorts of limitations. If they had taken out Falco, Wolf, and Lucas, and instead put in, for example, Krystal, Ridley, and Simon Belmont or something, they would have used only slightly more development effort and the roster would have been twice as good as what we got. They made stupid, boring choices over and over for no reason at all.

We're not saying that we won't buy the game now, or that it will no longer be fun. Of course it will still be fun! It is because it will be fun that this is upsetting. This is a game that will probably played well into the next decade...maybe longer. Seeing its potential reduced so much because of a pointless, inexplicable error is a tragedy, and I don't see what's wrong with acknowledging that.

 

[h1roshi]

i must say, toon link, IS disappointing. i mean he's a clone of a clone, come on. wolf, falco, and fox all having the same FS, pretty weak. i really dont have any complaints except for toon link, there was no need for him and we could have used a new fresh character. other than that, its fine to me...peace


-hiro

 

[Drclaw411]

i agree entirely with you.

basically my thoughts: Brawl had the chance to be the best game of all time, but instead it will just be known as another great, incredible game. The entire game is wonderful, the roster is the ONE AND ONLY FLAW with the game. It's all thats keeping it from going from Kingdom Hearts 2, Halo, Donkey Kong 64 area up to OOT, Halo 3, and Bioshock territory.

 

[sffadsad]

THANK YOU FOR THIS!

Honestly since they threw in these "semi"-clones they might as well have added in a few more Melee clones as well. Throwing back Roy with an unchanged neutral B, and and edited side B would have worked. Giving Mewtwo a slight buff would have made him different enough from Lucario since all his attacks have that added "psychic" blast thing. Hell even add Dr. Mario back in! At least he could have a totally different FS.


Instead we were given 4 possibly 5 clones, a slightly changed Mewtwo with a new skin, and a whole crapload of extras. It's really disappointing that all these compliments were added to the Brawl sandwich, and the meat that was added was less than prime cut.

 

[Team Giza]

Wolf is a clone now? I just thought he had the same final smash...

 

[Kio Iranez]

Anyone who comes to Smashboards can see that there are literally hundreds of character support threads filled with people who would love to see one cool character or another.

Picking favorites is subjective. Not everyone's going to agree on any roster, unless it has every character known to man, but that can't be possible. You just have to be a little less nitpicky.

 

[Bassoonist]

I agree.

The fact that Toon Link is just another clone is ridiculous. Ganondorf is still a clone? What? We have TWO Fox clones now? Lucas and Ness are clones?

Yes, I really do feel as if they really didn't care.

 

[ZAxel]

Not everyone's going to agree on any roster, unless it has every character known to man

Even then, everyone wouldn't agree on it because some people wouldn't want certain characters to be playable at all

 

[Orsist]

Does anyone have Sakurai's email address? I want to send him a link to this thread.

 

[Wyvern]

Picking favorites is subjective. Not everyone's going to agree on any roster, unless it has every character known to man, but that can't be possible. You just have to be a little less nitpicky.

Did you read the post at all? The very next line after the one you quoted was "obviously they couldn't all have possibly gotten in". When people see us complain about the roster being disappointing or lackluster, a lot of the time they just say "Oh boo hoo, you're just pissed because your one favorite character didn't get in." The point I was making is that we all knew from the beginning that it was impossible for everyone's favorite character to get in, and the lack of one character or another is NOT the problem we have with the roster. The problem that we have is that the list of secret characters as a whole is lacking in innovation, effort, and originality.

In a nutshell, people act like nothing but an impossibly perfect roster would have satisfied the "whiners". This is false, as all of us with any sense knew that it couldn't have been perfect. We were hoping for something that was imperfect but that showed it was the best that could have happened given the constraints that undoubtedly existed. THIS is the standard the game has fallen short of. I daresay it wasn't a particularly unrealistic thing to hope for.

 

[mista_mista]

Best thread I've seen in a while. I completely agree, so much wasted potential.

At least we have the coin launcher... *cries*

 

[Bassoonist]

Not everyone's going to agree on any roster, unless it has every character known to man

I seriously don't understand why anybody is even saying this right now.

Of course no roster is ever going to please everybody, that's common sense. However, people have the right to complain about THIS roster. This roster included characters that people did not really even want that much (R.O.B. -_-), rejected many deserving characters (Krystal, Ridley, Isaac, and yes, even Bowser Jr.), and has several clones.

It really looks like beyond the starting roster and R.O.B., this roster wasn't really even made to please the fans. It looks like it was just rushed, like Melee's.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

The problem isn't that.
Seriously.

The problem is that Sora team revealed too many Newcomers as starters, and we expected more Newcomers as hidden characters. That's all.

If Pokemon Trainer, for example, was a hidden character the whole people aren't be so disappointed.

That was the problem.

 

[Spellman]

O.K. so maybe he only had enough time to make 30 characters. 30's a huge number to bark at when we're talking fully developed characters.

On top of that, we just got a bonus 5 clones in less then the time it would take to create 1 character, because they ran out of time. Bonus. Thing is, we don't even know if they're clones yet. Most Luigi supporters will tell you that Luigi isn't a clone, (I agree), and Ness appears to have his own style aswell. The moves are similar in both of these cases, but there are distinct differences that are beyond power levels and speed that make them different. Falco may have a new moveset and Ganondorf I can imagine certainly does.

Characters like Toon Link appeal to most of this generations Zelda players. R.O.B. appeals to people who watched Nintendo built from the ground up. Sometimes it's just sentimental value, y'know. Some people like the choices they made.

 

[Wyvernkni]

I agree, mostly. Frankly, there is one and only one reason why I don't like this Roster: The over-reuse of animations. In other words, the clones. Okay, they're not entirely clones, but I define clones buy the reuse of their graphics, and if that means that all their B-Moves are different or A-Moves, but the rest is the same, still a clone in my eyes. I feel that the effort in making this Roster was poor overall. I don't care all that much about Isaac's exclusion, Micaiah's Exclusion, I didn't even give a care before this about Geno or Ridley. I don't even mind the removal of Mewtwo actually (It makes little sense though). Once I heard that Wolf has cloned some of Fox's moves (MOST probably, enough that I define him as a clone), And that Falco was confirmed, that was it. They have 3 Characters with too many similarities. And ROB? They probably chose him/her/it because they were going to use it for Subspace anyway.

In short, the disappointing thing in this is the lack of effort. I wouldn't be at all shocked if someone quoted me, called me a whiner, and accused me of only being angry over my favorite characters being excluded. Frankly, that's not what I'm saying. What I really mean to say is, this roster would have been perfect if it did not have clones. If they had delayed it further (And gave a more explanatory reason) I'd be content with another delay, if it would've meant that we would not have clones (Numbering this amount anyway).

 

[EPX2]

Picking favorites is subjective. Not everyone's going to agree on any roster, unless it has every character known to man, but that can't be possible. You just have to be a little less nitpicky.

We're aware of that, as is the topic creator. If you read through his whole post, you'll see that he already addressed this issue.

As for the topic itself, I agree completely. That why irks me to see people telling anyone who has anything to say that isn't, "OMG, THE ROSTER PWNS!" to get over it, the game wasn't made to please them and whatnot. It's one thing if someone's threatening physical harm against Sakurai or to boycott the game because their favorite character didn't get in, but if someone is voicing legitimate grievances with the roster, such as the pointless exclusion of Melee characters when clones were brought back in full force, they shouldn't be brushed off as a fanboy who set their expectations too high. It's just really annoying to see people acting as if we have no right to feel disappointed or upset by what I feel was a poorly-made and designed roster.

I posted my own thoughts here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3801950#post3801950

 

[Bassoonist]

We're aware of that, as is the topic creator. If you read through his whole post, you'll see that he already addressed this issue.

As for the topic itself, I agree completely. That why irks me to see people telling anyone who has anything to say that isn't, "OMG, THE ROSTER PWNS!" to get over it, the game wasn't made to please them and whatnot. It's one thing if someone's threatening physical harm against Sakurai or to boycott the game because their favorite character didn't get in, but if someone is voicing legitimate grievances with the roster, such as the pointless exclusion of Melee characters when clones were brought back in full force, they shouldn't be brushed off as a fanboy who set their expectations too high. It's just really annoying to see people acting as if we have no right to feel disappointed or upset by what I feel was a poorly-made and designed roster.

I posted my own thoughts here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3801950#post3801950

and I agree with you 100% again.

We can't suck up to Sakurai here. This roster is truly bad, and we are allowed to not like it.

Something people can't seem to understand around here is opinions.

 

[Kio Iranez]

Something people can't seem to understand around here is opinions.

They're more easily understood when kept under control. We don't need floods of threads all pertaining to hating the game in which we are looking forward to.

Usually, voicing your opinion means getting it heard and trying to fix a problem. You're complaints are falling on deaf ears here. I'm not saying you're not allowed to have an opinion, but it's just useless and annoying to see the whole board cluttered up with hate, when none of it will matter soon.

 

[maxpower1227]

I agree with Wyvern for the most part. For me, they could make this the perfect roster by making the following changes:

- Add more villains. Primarily we need Ridley and K Rool, especially since Metroid has one rep only.
- On that note, put Mewtwo back where he belongs. Lucario is not a villain, and is not a telekinetic pokémon from what I'm told. They can leave Lucario if they must, but give him different moves.
- Declone Falco: give him the bazooka he's been pictured with, and change up his specials a bit
- Give Fox, Falco, and Wolf UNIQUE final smashes
- Give Ness a unique final smash (maybe)
- Replace Toon Link (LAME) with a PT-esque rotation between Deku/Goron/Zora Link. Fierce Deity Link as his Final Smash.
- Give Ganondorf his sword, and an energy projectile (the kind Link is always reflecting back at him)
- Add more 3rd parties. I would go with Mega Man for Capcom, Geno for Square (due to his Nintendo roots, so to speak), and maybe Bomberman for Hudson, but 4 is probably enough

That would make the roster PERFECT imo. As it stands, it is still very good, but the 3-way Star Fox clone leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, especially seeing as how EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THIS GAME looks better than I ever hoped for (except MAYBE for stage selection. I would have liked about 10 more).

 

[J18]

i cannot agree more with this thread. i don't really know why, but for some reason i'm kinda disappointed in this roster. i couldn't even begin to explain why though

 

[Kio Iranez]

The problem that we have is that the list of secret characters as a whole is lacking in innovation, effort, and originality.

First, there is no problem with innovation. We have many new movesets, which will lead to new ways of playing.

Second, it is not lacking effort because most of the new characters are just that: NEW.

Also, originality is not a problem because there are less clones in proportion to the total amount of characters than there were in Melee.

Unless you want an extremely imbalanced game, some clones aren't bad. Besides, none of the clones in Melee were played in exactly the same way. They WILL be different statistically, don't you worry.

 

[maxpower1227]

Well to be fair, I think our expectations were thrown off a bit because we started off with so many awesome new characters. We just don't have to unlock them. If we started with Luigi, Capt Falcon, Marth, Ness, etc unlocked and had to earn PT, Wario, Pit, Metaknight, DeDeDe, Olimar, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Game & Watch, Snake and Sonic, we'd all be a lot happier, I think.

Still, I stand by my previous post.

At least the stage selection seems better (and Final Destination is GORGEOUS)

 

[UltimateShinigami]

Well to be fair, I think our expectations were thrown off a bit because we started off with so many awesome new characters. We just don't have to unlock them. If we started with Luigi, Capt Falcon, Marth, Ness, etc unlocked and had to earn PT, Wario, Pit, Metaknight, DeDeDe, Olimar, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Game & Watch, Snake and Sonic, we'd all be a lot happier, I think.

Still, I stand by my previous post.

At least the stage selection seems better (and Final Destination is GORGEOUS)

QFT. I just realized that. If they showed us all the clones and veternas on the dojo and left sonic, olimar, dedede, and pkmn trainer as unlockables, we would be much happier. We can blame Nintendo for giving us the wrong characters at the wrong times, but for those moments, when we first beheld these new innovative characters, we were overjoyed, and that's what they really wanted. Just try not to view the new discoveries as bad things, view the old discoveries as gateways to a new world of smash

 

[KrazyKaiju]

Sounds like common consensus about this roster issue is the lack of variety.

Some of those roster spots could have been used for other candidates from other franchises. I feel kind of sorry for the Metroid franchise. Although it received a decent amount of representation in some ways (ATs, SSE boss, Zamus), I just don't think it got fair representation in others (i.e. another character).

Plus, I'm sure the absence of another third party character kind of bothers alot of people who were expecting a third one.

Alot of these grievances are matters of personal preference, but I think the two things that can be agreed upon are: lack of variety and unbalanced representation.

 

[M.K]

I think the REAL reason I AM dissapointed is because I wanted a new character "experience", and Brawl doesn't come through with hidden characters. I mean, Ness/Lucas is bad enough, hopefully not Ganondorf/C.Falcon or Wolf/Falco/Fox (YIPES).

What a waste of time, this isn't the encyclopedia of Nintendo. Actually it is, it's what they've become, an encyclopedia of rehashed characters!

 

[SuperRad]

I just had a realization. Possible SSE semi-spoilers ahead. I don't think they really are spoilers but I don't want to accidentally ruin stuff for anyone that wants to know NOTHING of SSE.

Spoiler

I might be wrong, but it seems that Wolf and WW Link aren't in SSE. At all. This is from all the topics I've read and pictures I've seen. However, if they aren't, this leads me to believe that they were last second additions. It's possible that SSE and most of the characters were designed hand in hand so that the mode could revolve around all the characters. It's possible that they finished the characters before SSE was finished and decided to add in a couple more characters. WWLink could be taken using the basic link physics, but designing a new model and changing the moves around. And wolf could of been borrowed from Fox.

I could be wrong as this is a theory.
Will this make anyone feel better if it's true? Probably not. People are mad and will be venomous about it regardless.

 

[Santini]

Fan project? Brawl? Yeah, okay Sakaurai.

I'm fine witht the small number, it's just other things that make the roster so frustraring in so many ways.

Firstly, the game developers actually had to spend time and space designing stupid characters (ROB) for such a dumb f*** reason: surprise. That is the only reason they put ROB in there. Surprise. And to think that they could have actually spent time putting in a character that would have made so many FANS obviously happy.

Secondly, he put in clones, which were so hated among fans. Honesty, why would you even consider this? You have all the people and time you need, Sakurai, why would you take such a road? And especially with Gaonondorf? That just infuriates me. He could have been so cool.

Finally, Wolf. Now, I'm not one to complain about characters, but I can't let this slide. A 3rd Fox clone? Really? When you're picking new characters, you think "you know, we didn't have enough fox clones." Even when Fox already has a wolf-like costume? In my opinion, Wolf is the real WTF character (but not in the surprising way).

Maybe next time, stop spending all this time on stupid s*** like subspace (which no one will be playing 6 months from now) and focus on what makes the game good: Versus mode. And what consists of versus mode? Stages and the god**** roster.

 

[Seanson]

Fox in the game three times over to the exclusion of many cool and unique alternatives. This does NOT say "best effort" to me.

From what I know, theres only 1 fox. Theres a falco and a wolf as well, but they are different.

Clones don't exist.

In melee: Falco has very different move properties compared to fox (shine goes up, d-air is spike, u-air hits diagonal, up-b is shorter, laser stuns) are the obvious differences. Some people say ganon is a falcon clone... that is silly. Ganon's moves are even more different from falcon than falco's are from fox. To list a few (u-tilt, down-b, falling speed, jab, n-air, f-air, u-air). Even Mario vs Doc, doc is preferred for a reason, and that reason is the difference between Mario and Doc (kill power?). Between them, a pile of moves come to mind in how they are different (f-air, f-smash, b-air, d-tilt, u-tilt). So, are these people really clones? They have differing play styles (moreso falcon vs ganon, or fox vs falco, compared to doc vs mario). I wont get into marth vs roy differences.

So why do you call them clones? Certainly not because of their animations! If animations were the reason behind clone whining, then you should actually be happy, because in reality that means they are different enough in playstyle and gameplay that animations shouldnt matter.

Can someone explain why people think falco is a fox clone (in melee)?

Even in brawl... Landmasters don't really mean anything in the scope of competative play. If brawl rules will be like melee, there won't be any items so it doesn't make a difference. In the chance that FS will be allowed at events, it is still too early to tell since brawl isnt even out in our country. Even yet, FS are such a small part of the game and of a character to claim "clonage". It is 1 attack out of many.

All characterss are unique.

 

[SuperRad]

Double posting cause I can't edit:
Clones, hated among fans?
That's why everyone hates Roy and Marth?
No wait, they must all hate Ganondorf in his melee form?
Oh, that's not right, you must be talking about how Falco was loathed and no one played him because he was JUST LIKE FOX?

Yes, people would've prefered unique movesets, but stop exaggerating. The "cloned" characters in melee were largely very different in practice from eachother. Doctor Mario/Mario and maybe YL/Link and Pichu/Pikachu were the only ones that were close enough to warrant people thinking that they should be removed.

Fox and Falco's moves look identical, but in practice are so very different. Marth and Roy play really differently because of their sweetspots and speeds (cant SH Double Fair with Roy). Ganondorf unfortunately had the same moveset as Falcon, but C. Falc REQUIRED juggling to set up his kills for the most part, where as Ganondorf could gimp you easier as well as kill with less hits.

I'm not saying I forgive Wolf/Fox/Falco having the same FS in brawl, cause I find that rather annoying, and I don't even plan to play with FS on for the most part.
I'm just saying that clones aren't nearly as bad as people want to make them out to be, and it DOES look like they tried to distinguish the clones from eachother, if not to the level Luigi is to Mario, atleast to the level that Falco was to Fox.

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I think some people forget that Brawl comes out in Japan WAY much earlier than here.

That's one reason for them to rush stuff up, for Japan's sake, not North America

 

[Ban Heim]

Falco has been somewhat de-cloned and Wolf is much different than both Fox and Falco.

And I'm pretty sure Wolf's FS was photoshopped. Some guy on gamefaqs apparently found an identical pic with Fox using his FS so I wouldn't believe it until you see it in a video.

 

[Lightning Ice]

I don't know what they were thinking honestly. One of the main reasons I didn't believe the 35 roster at first was because I looked at all the small modes that were minor yet they were doing so much of that stuff that I thought it was impossible that they would give such a small clone filled roster. Still in the end I know that Brawl will be epic, melee was and it had even less characters. It is just a shame that we will now always have to wonder what Brawl could have been like.

 

[xizor98]

double post

 

[Project Occasus]

With this originality situation, some of us are assuming that the development team said "Let's just make the next 5 characters clones." When in reality we miss the advantages of this. With clones, we get more characters than with originals. Sure many of you may prefer originals, over a greater number of clones, but quite frankly not everyone will agree on the situation. Keep in mind there aren't even that many clones, when we consider the amount of characters in this roster, and the amount of clones in melee.

Also, these 'clones' seem like they may be a little less 'clone-ish' so keep that in mind. We don't really know what's up yet.

Good post, though.

 

[xizor98]

The problem isn't that.
Seriously.

The problem is that Sora team revealed too many Newcomers as starters, and we expected more Newcomers as hidden characters. That's all.

If Pokemon Trainer, for example, was a hidden character the whole people aren't be so disappointed.

That was the problem.

Precisely true.
Imagine if the starting roster was all the vets from Melee and the unrevealed until now characters were revealed as:

ZSS
Pit
ROB
Metaknight
DDD
Olimar
Wolf
PT
Lucario
Ike
Lucas
Snake
Sonic

Not a SINGLE person would be complainging about anything and everyone would be in shock and awe and as frothing at the mouth in excitement. The only reason the final roster APPEARS disappointing is the method in which it was revealed. Period. This is a phenomenal roster for any fighter.

And about the whole clone hate, wtf is that about. Falco and Ganondorf are both exceedingly popular in Melee. Falco and Fox play practically nothing like each other in Melee, and Ganondorf and Falcon play even less alike than the former pair. Literally nothing about them is the same other the graphic accompanying their moves. Different speed, power, knockback, weight, trajectories, priorities, hitbox, friction, EVERYTHING is different about EVERY single move between the two with the exception of the APPEARANCE of the moves themselves. They are completely different characters with completely different moves that just LOOK the same.

Besides to be totally honest, as a Ganondorf main in Melee, I'd be PISSED if his moveset was completely changed in order to pander to a group of crybabies who DON'T EVEN PLAY AS HIM. That would be worse than what they did to Nightmare in SC3, and we all know the uproar (all well-deserved I might add) that caused. Sakurai got it right in not *******izing beloved characters just to attempt to please a group of impossible-to-please wusses.

 

[Sagacity]

Precisely true.
Imagine if the starting roster was all the vets from Melee and the hidden characters were revealed as ZSS, Pit, ROB, Metaknight, DDD, Olimar, Wolf, PT, Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Snake and Sonic. Not a SINGLE person would be complainging about anything and everyone would be in shock and awe and as frothing at the mouth in excitement. The only reason the final roster APPEARS disappointing is the method in which it was revealed. Period. This is a phenomenal roster for any fighter.

And about the whole clone hate, wtf is that about. Falco and Ganondorf are both exceedingly popular in Melee. Falco and Fox play practically nothing like each other in Melee, and Ganondorf and Falcon play even less alike than the former pair. Literally nothing about them is the same other the graphic accompanying their moves. Different speed, power, knockback, weight, trajectories, priorities, hitbox, friction, EVERYTHING is different about EVERY single move between the two with the exception of the APPEARANCE of the moves themselves. They are completely different characters with completely different moves that just LOOK the same.

Besides to be totally honest, as a Ganondorf main in Melee, I'd be PISSED if his moveset was completely changed in order to pander to a group of crybabies who DON'T EVEN PLAY AS HIM. That would be worse than what they did to Nightmare in SC3, and we all know the uproar (all well-deserved I might add) that caused. Sakurai got it right in not *******izing beloved characters just to attempt to please a group of impossible-to-please wusses.

Thank you for pointing this out. I've been meaning to say this for a while. The characters' moves may look the same, but they sure as hell don't play the same

 

[firefox451]

Once I heard that Wolf has cloned some of Fox's moves (MOST probably, enough that I define him as a clone), And that Falco was confirmed, that was it. They have 3 Characters with too many similarities. And ROB? They probably chose him/her/it because they were going to use it for Subspace anyway.

Unfortunately, that isn't even the answer! I mean, they made gorgeous ATs for Little Mac, Stafy, Lyn, and Waluigi among others - they have a great deal of animation and detail. Certainly, they do not have the number of animations that a full-fledge dPC has (presumably hundreds based on the latest Iwata Asks), but the roster can't be explained by the desire to re-use animations and character models.

I believe it was a lack or originality in perfecting movesets and the balance involved - certainly time-consuming. I am very sad that 2 characters with original movest are here for Kirby - not because I dislike DeDeDe or Metaknight - but because these were the only series characters to get such a great boost to their fans. Metroid + Star Fox fans like me feel jilted (for SF, not because of a lack of numbers - but a lack of understanding about the true depth of these characters and the poor moveset originality implemented). Still, got to be thankful for the originality we did get - even if concentrated.

 

[Tabris-]

Falco has been somewhat de-cloned and Wolf is much different than both Fox and Falco.

And I'm pretty sure Wolf's FS was photoshopped. Some guy on gamefaqs apparently found an identical pic with Fox using his FS so I wouldn't believe it until you see it in a video.

It's not, I was watching someone live when they unlocked Wolf and subsequently tested out his FS in training mode.

 

[CaptainFalco30]

Finally, Wolf. Now, I'm not one to complain about characters, but I can't let this slide. A 3rd Fox clone? Really? When you're picking new characters, you think "you know, we didn't have enough fox clones." Even when Fox already has a wolf-like costume? In my opinion, Wolf is the real WTF character (but not in the surprising way).

Maybe next time, stop spending all this time on stupid s*** like subspace (which no one will be playing 6 months from now) and focus on what makes the game good: Versus mode. And what consists of versus mode? Stages and the god**** roster.

I'm gonna look at PT, Olimar, DeDeDe, Pit, and many others and say this WAS a fan project. Honestly, I'm really ticked off that you would say that. A game can only be made better by having both an excellent single player mode and a fantastic multiplayer mode. The fact that there was serious development into a storyline for SSE is as exciting for me as any character could possibly be. As for clones? I really don't care, if you want you can exclude them from roster counts, we still have way more originals than in melee.

There are a few I would have loved to see. Still, this game will be awesome, and I'm not playing a single vs match until I beat SSE. In my mind, it shows a lot of ignorance to say a game should only focus on versus mode because that's what people will play in tournaments.

If you dont' like it that much, don't buy the game, don't play the game. I, however, realize it will rock hard.

 

[fuuzball317]

Well first off the roster isn't that bad. I can see why your disappointed, but i agree completely with the fact that there are alot of new good characters in it, they just got announced as starting roster characters. If they were announced as secret characters and the melee guys as starters, it'd be a different case. Obviously Robot sucks, but hey, we haven't even tried him yet, could be interesting, and wolf and lucario look sick. And people who say that Falco and Ganondorf are clones again are complete idiots. Sakurai said that he's steering away from that so why would he go against his word. They are different and unique and look sick.

We also didn't help out Sakurai by requesting some ideas that were so stupid and dumb that they shouldn't have even been read. We've all seen some of the dumbest character requests online and those people are the ones that played a factor in not favoring the characters that would have been sick in it. Besides, its only missing a few characters that we thought had a good chance. So it doesn't have Geno, Ridley, K. Rool, Krystal, or Megaman, I would have liked them too, but seeing people like Dedede and Pokemon Trainer is already surprising and cool enough.

And people who want Tom Nook in the game are ********. Tom Nook is a joke of a character and would serve no purpose as a playable character in brawl.