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People need to understand the real reason for our disappointment:

fuuzball317

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
76
Well first off the roster isn't that bad. I can see why your disappointed, but i agree completely with the fact that there are alot of new good characters in it, they just got announced as starting roster characters. If they were announced as secret characters and the melee guys as starters, it'd be a different case. Obviously Robot sucks, but hey, we haven't even tried him yet, could be interesting, and wolf and lucario look sick. And people who say that Falco and Ganondorf are clones again are complete idiots. Sakurai said that he's steering away from that so why would he go against his word. They are different and unique and look sick.

We also didn't help out Sakurai by requesting some ideas that were so stupid and dumb that they shouldn't have even been read. We've all seen some of the dumbest character requests online and those people are the ones that played a factor in not favoring the characters that would have been sick in it. Besides, its only missing a few characters that we thought had a good chance. So it doesn't have Geno, Ridley, K. Rool, Krystal, or Megaman, I would have liked them too, but seeing people like Dedede and Pokemon Trainer is already surprising and cool enough.

And people who want Tom Nook in the game are ********. Tom Nook is a joke of a character and would serve no purpose as a playable character in brawl.
 

GamerGuitarist7

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
2,015
Location
Tucson AZ
The problem isn't that.
Seriously.

The problem is that Sora team revealed too many Newcomers as starters, and we expected more Newcomers as hidden characters. That's all.

If Pokemon Trainer, for example, was a hidden character the whole people aren't be so disappointed.

That was the problem.
well said.
 

iluvnintendo1983

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
217
Location
Washington State
It's not the fact that the roster is 35 characters that makes me mad, it's the fact that they put in characters like Toon Link, ROB, and Wolf...while ignoring high demand characters like Ridley, Geno, and Krystal. People will say, "Well, Sakurai just couldn't find ways to make characters like Ridley work in the game." Trust me, if he can make a freakin robot with no legs work, he can make Ridley work.

Also, Sakurai spoiled everyone by revealing all the good characters first, and leaving the returning veterans and clones for last. Everyone thought that there were going to be some huge surprises in store for us, like Mega Man as the last 3rd party character. People have the right to be upset. This game was supposed to be the Smash Bros. to end all Smash Bros...but now I'm already getting visions of what Smash Bros. 4 should be like. :(
 

Necrochild313

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
130
i agree entirely with you.

basically my thoughts: Brawl had the chance to be the best game of all time, but instead it will just be known as another great, incredible game. The entire game is wonderful, the roster is the ONE AND ONLY FLAW with the game. It's all thats keeping it from going from Kingdom Hearts 2, Halo, Donkey Kong 64 area up to OOT, Halo 3, and Bioshock territory.
Except HALO >>>>CRAP>>>>> HALO 3
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4,319
Location
North Carolina
It says they just didn't care about making the best of what they had. They didn't care about uniqueness or diversity in the playable characters. They spent all this time and effort on all these random modes and features, but couldn't be bothered with properly planning out the single most important aspect of the game?
Pit. Meta Knight. Sonic. Snake. Pokemon Trainer. Diddy Kong. King Dedede. Zero Suit Samus. Pikmin and Olimar. Wario. Uh, I guess you could say Ike. Oh, and R.O.B. Apparently Wolf too.

They're not unique, and they're not diverse?
 

Wyvern

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
455
Location
New England
From what I know, theres only 1 fox. Theres a falco and a wolf as well, but they are different.

Clones don't exist.

In melee: Falco has very different move properties compared to fox (shine goes up, d-air is spike, u-air hits diagonal, up-b is shorter, laser stuns) are the obvious differences. Some people say ganon is a falcon clone... that is silly. Ganon's moves are even more different from falcon than falco's are from fox. To list a few (u-tilt, down-b, falling speed, jab, n-air, f-air, u-air). Even Mario vs Doc, doc is preferred for a reason, and that reason is the difference between Mario and Doc (kill power?). Between them, a pile of moves come to mind in how they are different (f-air, f-smash, b-air, d-tilt, u-tilt). So, are these people really clones? They have differing play styles (moreso falcon vs ganon, or fox vs falco, compared to doc vs mario). I wont get into marth vs roy differences.

So why do you call them clones? Certainly not because of their animations! If animations were the reason behind clone whining, then you should actually be happy, because in reality that means they are different enough in playstyle and gameplay that animations shouldnt matter.

Can someone explain why people think falco is a fox clone (in melee)?

Even in brawl... Landmasters don't really mean anything in the scope of competative play. If brawl rules will be like melee, there won't be any items so it doesn't make a difference. In the chance that FS will be allowed at events, it is still too early to tell since brawl isnt even out in our country. Even yet, FS are such a small part of the game and of a character to claim "clonage". It is 1 attack out of many.

All characterss are unique.
Not all clones are created equal. Ganondorf was an example of a very good clone, so I'll use him for my baseline of comparison.

Captain Falcon is defined by his incredibly high ground speed and his ability to retain all of that momentum when he jumps, giving him unparalleled horizontal maneuverability both on the ground and in the air (well, one could argue that Jigglypuff is more maneuverable in the air, but that's a different kind of movement). Pretty much everything Captain Falcon is capable of stems from this special attribute of his character. Remove that speed and maneuverability and you strip him of everything that makes him Captain Falcon. This is the basis for Ganondorf's moveset. At his very core, he is fundamentally distinct from his progenetor, and his combination of agility and power in his attacks allowed him to press an offensive in any direction in a way no other heavyweight could claim. He filled a completely unique niche, plainly distinct from everyone else in the roster, most of all Captain Falcon. I'm actually rather glad they kept this moveset in Brawl, since giving him a greatsword would have forced them to build him in the same way as Ike, which would have sucked. I do rather hope they update some of his specials, though.

Young Link wasn't too bad either. Link's melee abilities all centered around a specific theme, which was very high range and power offset by crippling post-attack lag. Young Link completely inverts this trend, having absolutely atrocious range and power but having a great deal of agility, with very little lag to him at all. As someone who has played Link diligently for many years, I can testify that I have no idea of how to go about fighting with Young Link at all. Whenever I try, I'm reduced to spamming the sword plant like some kind of noob, because the basic properties of his character are the inverse of everything I know about the adult Link. Nothing applies to both, aside from knowing how to put the right spin on a bomb throw. His return to Brawl isn't terrible, I suppose, but the Wind Waker style just begs for exaggerated, cartoony A moves and cool new specials. The fact that they didn't bother is a huge missed opportunity which feeds into the whole "lack of originality" that I started with.

Compared to these two, Falco's modifications from Fox were highly superficial. Same build, same speed, most of the same overpowered kill moves. The only real differences in moveset was that Falco's blaster was for stunning instead of building damage and he spiked with the pillar instead of the shine. Big deal. Falco has different favored combos at the top pro level, but by and large he's a slight variation on a theme, not a fundamentally new playstyle. If there's anything that gave him a claim at uniqueness in a way rivaling Ganondorf's, it was his ridiculously high jump and super-fast falling speed...and this attribute was REMOVED in Brawl. He falls at the same slow, normalized rate as most characters (I'll dig up the video if you don't believe me). Throwing the reflector instead of wrapping himself in it is a superficial change...it makes him a little different visually, but he is still very much a variation on Fox and not a new character in his own right (or at least seems to be from what's been seen).

Lucas is the worst of all. He has the EXACT same core properties as Ness. The only difference is that his B move doesn't suck and where Ness has quirky defensive moves (yo-yo smashes and the obnoxiously-disruptive forward air), Lucas has boring power strikes of the type Ness already had in other directions. He adds absolutely NOTHING new and distinctive to the list of available playstyles. Not a thing.

And then we come to Wolf. He has the same build as Fox. There's nothing from the games that gives him any special potential. All of his specials have been seen to be barely modified versions of Fox's. What does he have to add to this game? The fact of the matter is that Fox just does not have a very cloneable moveset. He's quick, and his attacks are pretty powerful, and that's really all there is to him. He is the all-around standard for the speedy character type. Unlike Captain Falcon or Link, he has no unique, signature advantages or crippling faults that can be exaggerated, removed, or otherwise altered to create a new core character. A slow, powerful Fox would very much be a slower and more powerful version of Fox, with nothing like the kind of differentiation you get between Captain Falcon and Ganondorf. Even if the team poured a ton of effort to him and tried to give him a moveset without any direct visual similarities to Fox's, he would still feel very dull and same-y. He just doesn't have the potential. If you honestly think that Wolf could add even a tenth as much diversity and uniqueness to the roster as Krystal could (with a completely new weapon type and an arsenal of magical and telepathic abilities alongside it), you're deranged.

I'm not just saying "omg clones are bad". I'm saying that Falco, Wolf, and especially Lucas are just bad clones in particular. They just can't differentiate themselves enough to create totally new niches in the roster the way a brand-new character or even the likes of Ganondorf could.
 

Finn Macool

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
104
has anyone actually found out if ww link ganandorf and the various star fox chars are clones, falco now has a throwable reflector and ive seen some of ganondorf play and his up b looked different as did most of his moves
 

mkmelee

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
1,008
Location
Toronto, Ontario
i think one of the reasons why we are lacking in the roster is the development time. The game has been in actual development for something like 2 years, and putting so much effort into the subspace emissary, including a whole slew of new innovative characters was unlikely, including connecting them all in an original plot.

I think Toon Link's is decent, just cause he brings back WW memories, though I hate the name.

I still am slightly disappointed in the roster. In a few months, the disappointment will be nothing though.

My main worry is actually the changes in gameplay. I'm hoping the game can be just as skill-oriented as Melee, and much more competitive.
 

BananaHammock

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
247
Ok I'm not going to go through and read all the posts here, frankly because I don't care at all about everybody else's opinion. I think, while the original poster has a point, it is a flawed point. I think you may be underestimating the time an effort it takes to make new characters.

In Brawl, there are 13(ish because of clones or other reasons) brand new characters/movesets. Let that soak in. Have you EVER heard of ANY other fighting game adding that many new playable characters? I'll answer that for you: No you haven't. Add to that the fact that there are 35 characters. How many fighting games can you say have that many characters? Capcom vs. SNK (more than 35 PCs). That's it, and we all know how unbalanced those games are...Brawl will (unfortunately but probably) be just as unbalanced...(in case you are unaware, Capcom vs. SNK is not balanced in any way shape or form)

In short, I think the roster follows the formula perfectly for a fighting game sequel. That is all. Good day.
 

SinisterLizard

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
805
I love how people are bringing up time into this, like it's an issue. The game was developed for 2.5 years. The development team was huge! Look how much wasted on all of the "extras." Time...is...not...an...issue. He just flat-out screwed up, adding pointless things instead of what really matters.

Wyvern hit the nail right on the head. It isn't because we hate the game or anything like that. It isn't that we aren't going to buy it. It's the fact that we care so much and saw so much potential in what could have been the best game ever of all time bar none...and it fell short. Not just a little, but it's quite a distance from there. Not because we had crazy expectations but simply because he chose to ignore it.
 

Wyvern

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
455
Location
New England
Ok I'm not going to go through and read all the posts here, frankly because I don't care at all about everybody else's opinion. I think, while the original poster has a point, it is a flawed point. I think you may be underestimating the time an effort it takes to make new characters.
If they had time to put in both Falco and Wolf, then they would have had time to put in Krystal instead. If they had just made that one change, even if it had resulted in a roster size of 34, I would have felt far more comfortable with this whole affair. What drives a developer to reimagine an old character twice rather than put in a totally new character who is incredibly unique, easily conceptualized, and highly requested? It baffles the mind.

More specifically, it represents a conscious and deliberate avoidance by the developers of the fun and unique in exchange for mostly-empty bells and whistles in a slightly higher quantity. It's that psychology that horrifies me so much. Is that really the way they went about making this game? Can you not see the tragedy in that?
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4,319
Location
North Carolina
I love how people are bringing up time into this, like it's an issue. The game was developed for 2.5 years. The development team was huge! Look how much wasted on all of the "extras." Time...is...not...an...issue. He just flat-out screwed up, adding pointless things instead of what really matters.

Wyvern hit the nail right on the head. It isn't because we hate the game or anything like that. It isn't that we aren't going to buy it. It's the fact that we care so much and saw so much potential in what could have been the best game ever of all time bar none...and it fell short. Not just a little, but it's quite a distance from there. Not because we had crazy expectations but simply because he chose to ignore it.
If they had time to put in both Falco and Wolf, then they would have had time to put in Krystal instead. If they had just made that one change, even if it had resulted in a roster size of 34, I would have felt far more comfortable with this whole affair. What drives a developer to reimagine an old character twice rather than put in a totally new character who is incredibly unique, easily conceptualized, and highly requested? It baffles the mind.

More specifically, it represents a conscious and deliberate avoidance by the developers of the fun and unique in exchange for mostly-empty bells and whistles in a slightly higher quantity. It's that psychology that horrifies me so much. Is that really the way they went about making this game? Can you not see the tragedy in that?
To SinisterLizard: Or I could say it another way, that it just boils down to you not being satisfied with the unlockable newcomers. Were you honestly going to buy this game just for Ridley? Do you really think Sakurai knew exactly what you wanted and was really just about to do it but decided not to? I understand that it's not exactly what you wanted, but it would've never been that way to begin with.

To Wyvern: Really, who knows. I was hoping Iwata would do another interview with Sakurai about his character choices.
 

Teben

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
198
You guys are so absurdly ungrateful, disrespectful, and ignorant of how much sincere effort was necessary from the team behind this game to say some of the things you do about Brawl and the people behind it.

I hope that when you get the game you become a little bit more grateful.
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4,319
Location
North Carolina
You guys are so absurdly ungrateful, disrespectful, and ignorant of how much sincere effort was necessary from the team behind this game to say some of the things you do about Brawl and the people behind it.

I hope that when you get the game you become a little bit more grateful.
They'll forget about it in a while, it's just too recent to let go of as of now.

It's not like the team just lacked common sense.
 

BananaHammock

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
247
If they had time to put in both Falco and Wolf, then they would have had time to put in Krystal instead. If they had just made that one change, even if it had resulted in a roster size of 34, I would have felt far more comfortable with this whole affair. What drives a developer to reimagine an old character twice rather than put in a totally new character who is incredibly unique, easily conceptualized, and highly requested? It baffles the mind.

More specifically, it represents a conscious and deliberate avoidance by the developers of the fun and unique in exchange for mostly-empty bells and whistles in a slightly higher quantity. It's that psychology that horrifies me so much. Is that really the way they went about making this game? Can you not see the tragedy in that?
Ok let me start by saying that by new character, I didn't mean Falco or Wolf.

With that said, leaving out Falco and Wolf would not have gave them enough time to add Krystal. Making Krystal would have been a massive undertaking: Making the brand new design, creating a whole new moveset, and balancing that moveset.

Where as having Falco and Wolf (which are BTW, Much cooler characters than Krystal) only took some tweaking of Fox's overall character design. What does this do? It's pretty much an autopilot for balancing them as characters, and still makes them different enough to be fun in their own right. And as for it being a tragedy.....are you joking me? I don't even know how to respond to that. Other than NO, SORRY, can't see any tragedy. All I see are two really awesome characters that I can't wait to play.
 

SinisterLizard

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
805
To SinisterLizard: Or I could say it another way, that it just boils down to you not being satisfied with the unlockable newcomers. Were you honestly going to buy this game just for Ridley? Do you really think Sakurai knew exactly what you wanted and was really just about to do it but decided not to? I understand that it's not exactly what you wanted, but it would've never been that way to begin with.
Did I ever say that? No. But the GAME FELL SHORT. Accept that. Yes, it's better than Melee, but it's not the BEST it could have been. That is the ENTIRE point of this thread. Don't you understand that?

And yes, Sakurai could have easily satisfied me. I'm not that hard to please. The hundreds of people around you saying the same thing should be a sign to you that I am not alone in my critiquing.
 

Finn Macool

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
104
if sakurai was trying to develop balanced characters then theirs no way that a new characeter could be created in the same amount of time as two clones, they already know that a clone is balanced but it would take extensive playtesting to tell if a new char was overpowered or uselessly crap
thats what im hoping sakurai spent his time doing making a balanced game melee had 25 characters wit some clones but they werent all really equally worth using if brawl has roster of 35 equal char then it will be better than a roster of 50 with 15 good chars
...or maybe he wasted his time on pointless crap for the nublets out there but ill hold to hope
 

DraginHikari

Emerald Star Legacy
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
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Omaha, NE
NNID
Draginhikari
3DS FC
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You know this is all quiet entertaining. The Opener had a far enough arugement however, it's being drowned out by alot of nonsense on both ends really.
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4,319
Location
North Carolina
Did I ever say that? No. But the GAME FELL SHORT. Accept that. Yes, it's better than Melee, but it's not the BEST it could have been. That is the ENTIRE point of this thread. Don't you understand that?

And yes, Sakurai could have easily satisfied me. I'm not that hard to please. The hundreds of people around you saying the same thing should be a sign to you that I am not alone in my critiquing.
Blah blah. I understand, and I know what it feels like to be denied something I really wanted (see sig).
 

BananaHammock

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
247
if sakurai was trying to develop balanced characters then theirs no way that a new characeter could be created in the same amount of time as two clones, they already know that a clone is balanced but it would take extensive playtesting to tell if a new char was overpowered or uselessly crap
thats what im hoping sakurai spent his time doing making a balanced game melee had 25 characters wit some clones but they werent all really equally worth using if brawl has roster of 35 equal char then it will be better than a roster of 50 with 15 good chars
...or maybe he wasted his time on pointless crap for the nublets out there but ill hold to hope
QFT

I would much rather see a balanced roster than a roster that appeals to more people.

Oh and by the way. Brawl only has 4 clones. 5 if you count Ganondorf (which I don't think you can anymore). That's no more than were in Melee. Chew on that.
 

Teben

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
198
But the GAME FELL SHORT
OF WHAT? When was the last time there was a game in the history of video games that had this level of collaboration from prominent members of the industry?

To put it bluntly, IT'S NEVER HAPPENED. The sheer fact that this game even exists in the form it does is completely unheard of.

The game is gorgeous, it's filled with characters, it has a real storyline complete with extremely well animated cut scenes for cripes-sake.

It's so filled to the brim with stuff that it's just ridiculous!

The level of ingratitude here is so childish that I'm taken aback. It surely offends Sakurai and his team to no end.
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4,319
Location
North Carolina
There may be hundreds who are upset over one character's exclusion, but there are millions of other people who don't care about one little character who 'deserves' to be in the game. They just want to have fun playing the game and fighting with cool characters (and so do we). In the end, there's nothing you can do about it, and you're going to get over it eventually, so why not save yourself a bit of youthful energy and start now? There are other cool things to look forward to.
 

Finn Macool

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
104
if you feel the game felll short thats because of the ridiculous hype you created of it in your head that has nothing to do with sakurai
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
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Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
I find it odd that all this complaining is coming from people who will probably stop playing in about a year(or less) The people who devote themselves to smash, the ones that have played since 64, nonstop, learning all of the intricacies don't really care about the roster. They have had their mains planned since the games announcement and dont really care what other characters are in the game.

As for the "Real reason for our disappointment". Why? Honestly, why? Is it because of clones? Clones aren't bad. They balance out the game. We have NO proof that Wolf is EXACTLY the same as Fox. We have a FEW vids that show absolute n00bs playing as a character that they have never played as before. And another thing, just because a character MOVES the same way as another character does not mean that they are the same. Fox and Falco in Melee were slightly similar, but even the minor differences in their attacks made them completely different characters. Fox was all about quick hits, throws, powerful finishers and careful edgeguarding. Falco was about strategic movement with lasers, strong combo's and quick kills. They were not "The same" thats why their play style was so different. Now Doc and Mario, thats a different story >_>
 

RedrappeR

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
294
The fact people are blindly bashing sakurai is what's pissing me off.

There's a difference between being dissapointed and Being a whiny *****. While you weren't one of them Wyv... there were a lot of people who were. That's my beef. The man's responsible for nearly every aspect of this game, good or bad. He's worked tirelessly to get this **** done, and to call him lazy and stupid as a whole and disregard everything else he's put in the game is ****ing ********.

Otherwise, the Clones I will disagree with you to an extent upon. The only person I really see as annoying at this point is Toon Link. Falco's smash attacks are different save for his up smash, his reflector works different, and his mechanics have once again changed. Wolf, save for "LOL LETS JUST GIVE HIM ANOTHER LANDMASTER HAR HAR!" Is FAIRLY different from the other two.

Think of them as the shoto 3.(If you understand this reference, you get a cookie.)

But yes. That's what I think most people who complain about whiners are bugged about... that they're disregarding everything Sakurai HAS done, and calling him a lieing prick.

I'm happy with the roster. I got over it. Because I'm not 13 years old, and I don't cry for days on end about how nobody cares about me, though I got my way 25/35 different times. Yeah, it pissed me off when I saw "LOL LANDMASTER" 3 times... then I watched Wolf in action... and saw that him and Falco were fairly different. Then I got pissed at the Landmaster again. Then I saw Toon Link and was like "WTF, well he's different from Young Link but still WTF..." And then I got over it. Seriously. I just watched gameplay footage and I was like "**** it, it's stupid, I'm over it. I'm going to love playing as them regardless."


Not that hard **** it. And once again, if everyone made posts like the guy who made this thread, none of us would be rolling are eyes at people reeling from disappointment's.
 

Falsh

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
27
Location
East Coast CT
I think you have a very good point, I think most of us were thinking that. Although, everyone will forgive the roster once we start playing the game. Yes we do have five clones, but that's still one less clone than Melee and that had way less characters. And more importantly, we don't really know how different each clone is. From a recent video with Wolf, it shows he's practically Luigi-fied.

I think one of the biggest reasons why we are so disappointed is the order in which the roster was revealed... I mean, Meta Knight, Sonic, Pokemon Trainer and Olimar were all a big deal, either for their moveset and uniqueness, or being just plain cool, but they were all revealed very early. If say Lucario was revealed before Pokemon Trainer, or Sonic wasn't leaked until recently, I think people would have a much better attitude toward the roster. Wolf, Lucario and ROB just didn't cut it for brand new secret characters for most of us, considering: 1. equally, or cooler characters were already revealed, and 2. we were waiting for characters that matched and surpassed the revealed characters in some way.

Sakurai stated that it's very hard to balance characters with hundreds of variables with every moveset you add. It makes sense that he was less out going with original movesets, but I think repeating final smashes are inexcusable, it's not like final smashes were made with careful care of balence, I definitely think development time should have went toward Falco's, Wolf's and Ness's final smash rather than a lot of other content in the game. (and maybe Toon Link final smash too)
 

iluvnintendo1983

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
217
Location
Washington State
I find it odd that all this complaining is coming from people who will probably stop playing in about a year(or less) The people who devote themselves to smash, the ones that have played since 64, nonstop, learning all of the intricacies don't really care about the roster. They have had their mains planned since the games announcement and dont really care what other characters are in the game.
Not true at all. In fact, the most hardcore Smash fans are probably the ones who are the most disappointed by the roster. Every big Smash fan knows that while the extras and one player mode are nice...the roster is the heart and soul of the game.
 

Finn Macool

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
104
well all forget about these disapointments and the more common emo whinings when we fire up brawl and get into some of brawls beautiful gameplay
 

flyinfilipino

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
4,319
Location
North Carolina
Not true at all. In fact, the most hardcore Smash fans are probably the ones who are the most disappointed by the roster. Every big Smash fan knows that while the extras and one player mode are nice...the roster is the heart and soul of the game.
By roster, do you mean just who's in it? Or how they play?
 

Finn Macool

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
104
well all forget about these disapointments and the more common emo whinings when we fire up brawl and get into some of brawls beautiful gameplay

sorry falsh stole your point there
 

Equinox076

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
152
Location
Brisbane, Australia
O.K. so maybe he only had enough time to make 30 characters. 30's a huge number to bark at when we're talking fully developed characters.

On top of that, we just got a bonus 5 clones in less then the time it would take to create 1 character, because they ran out of time. Bonus. Thing is, we don't even know if they're clones yet. Most Luigi supporters will tell you that Luigi isn't a clone, (I agree), and Ness appears to have his own style aswell. The moves are similar in both of these cases, but there are distinct differences that are beyond power levels and speed that make them different. Falco may have a new moveset and Ganondorf I can imagine certainly does.

Characters like Toon Link appeal to most of this generations Zelda players. R.O.B. appeals to people who watched Nintendo built from the ground up. Sometimes it's just sentimental value, y'know. Some people like the choices they made.
THAT... IS... PERFECT...

*flies to japan*
 

Kazuya

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
257
Idiots that think the roster is 'amazing' should be slapped. Why?

I'm studying Games Design + Games Programming.

To program a character to do a certain move does take time, they need to spend a lot of money on camera's an etc and also stunt people that can actually do the moves. Marth's up + B? probably some Japanese guy in a blue suit with a rope attatched to his back to carry him up.

One characters moves, design and programming to be fully developed without any hitches would normally take about 4 weeks (lets call it a month), with the right team and money (which Sakurai obviously had). Now obviously the game didn't go STRAIGHT into developed after Melee, but lets say they started work on 2004. Thats 4 years of development time. 52 x 4= 208 weeks. 208/4= 52. Thats 52 possible UNIQUE characters.

Now instead, we've got 35 characters, 17 less than what could have been. But still, 35's a good number, right? After all, Soul Calibur 3 only had like 20 characters. Tekken only has around 30 characters... Most of SC's characters are unique, most of Tekken's characters are unique. So Brawl's got lots of characters compared to these games, yay, right? NO!

Fact is, and here's the killer part. Link has the EXACT same moves he's had in Melee (except for the FS). Mario has the same moves, Pikachu has the same moves... And etc. So there was (and I can guarantee this one) not a lot, if not any re-designing and re-shooting needed for a LOT of Brawl's characters. Sakurai just needed to take the original shot and design, upgrade it's graphics and re-program it a little so its stronger/weaker. How many 'repeats' do we have in Brawl? 21 returners in total. Thats including the Falco Clone and Shiek/Zelda thing. So thats 21 characters Sakurai didn't have to 're-shoot' all he had to do was take the original shot from Melee and upgrade its graphics and tweak its power an etc here and there. So that means, we have - 10=1 UNIQUE new comers, and 3 clones (Lucas/Ness, Gannondorf/Falcon and Fox/Falco/Wolf).

So 10 characters, that should take 10 months. So what happened to the other 3 years and 2 months? Well, for those of you who were wanting a 'good long hard single player' to satisfy your needs, well you got it. Storylines + Singleplayer modes can often take anything from 6 months to even 3 years to develop. (Just look at Halo 3, the multiplayer's easy to develop, its the single player that takes time). Now, I'm presuming each character or atleast half of them have a unique single player experience. IE Link starts in Hyrule, whilst Falcon starts in his car an etc... Now all of this can take a LOT of time to develop and get right, the single player has to 'flow' it can't look like it's just been thrown in and bit by bit...

Now we do have those Assist Trophies, Pokemon, Stickets, general items, challenges and etc too... And of course the designing for the levels and coding the game for new features and etc... All of that probably took a year to fully develop.

So we're down to 2 years and 2 months, the single player probably took 2 of those years to develop. Whilst the other 2 months was probably used debating who's in and who's out and etc - not to mention working on the online mode, which doesn't look too amazing atm.

So there we have it - Brawl's roster sucks because of the idiots that wanted a long hard single player to satisfy them.

I'm not being disrespectful, I'm not being ******** - I'm being sensible. Fact is, we were promised less clones and a 'un-imagible roster' an we were given dog food. I know most of the newcomers were already revealed to us, so its less of a surprise - but the main problem is, the clones - they were un-needed and shouldn't be clones. I would have much preferred one new original newcomer rather than having Lucas + Wolf.

End of the **** story. Don't QFT, don't QFL, don't &^%$ing quote at all.
 

fuuzball317

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
76
ok that doesn't mean the roster sucks, yea it could have been better, but its not bad, there are new characters that are very diverse such as pit, dedede, and pokemon trainer, overall we got alot of new faces and some different styles of fighting. I also think its phat that there's an in depth single player mode, cuz the one of the main factors of this game which sets it apart from melee is that its online now, so now you have the multiplayer x factor, and a sick single player mode, and with enough new ppl, there will be more diversity online
 

F@lc0-san

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
575
lol@people thinking Wolf is a clone.

Look at him in action.... Vid in the wolf sections

Oh and Pink Reaper even tho the BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW comments are ******** indeed that was quite uncalled for.

Suicide is no laughing matter.
 
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