People need to understand the real reason for our disappointment:

[ChrisLionheart]

could someone explain to me why so many people think that adding Krystal would be so awesome? I think Wolf is cooler than Krystal by far. Why is everyone so obsessed with Krystal? And Ridley's not playable but that's ok. I mean, Ridley is really really big, he would take up nearly 1/4 of the screen. Imagine 4 people playing as Ridley all at once, there wouldn't be enough room to move.

 

[Rick88]

*bows down*

Thank you for this topic, almighty one.

Seriousy though I needed that. I could tell most people who like the roster are just jumping on the bandwagon. The roster is disappointing indeed, not just because good characters with potential didn't make it in (Krystal, Ridley, Geno, etc. etc.), but also because it lacks in creativity and uniqueness. All that development time and large staff must've not been used for the roster :/, they still ended up making clones and/or "Luigified" versions of characters.

 

[veil222]

The only reason you'd think any part of this game isn't good enough is if you got your hopes up way too much. The roster is really good, I *like* the origional characters and their move sets. There's no reason to overhaul them, but thankfully, most have gotten much needed re-vamps. There's no real reason to even make Wolf totally his own character, he's built like fox and falco... why wouldn't he fight like them? I'm pretty **** happy with what I'll have in a month or so, mostly because I didn't expect the dev team to surpass my initial expectations of the game. Seems alot of people have sadly made that mistake.

 

[fuuzball317]

lol well I'll explain, cuz Krystal would be very unique cuz she has a staff and magic and would have a very unique moveset. I personally didn't care if she was in it or not, wanted to see either wolf or krystal. I think people are just jumping the gun on ripping wolf, I seriously doubt they made three characters the same, when sakurai comes out with the moveset for wolf, that's when we can say if he's a clone or not

 

[Soushirei.]

The entire game is wonderful, the roster is the ONE AND ONLY FLAW with the game.

Well to me that just means the game is simply wonderful because I don't see how every single Smasher will be satisfied with the roster. There's always gonna be people who just feel the roster didn't cut it. Thus the flaw. Everyone should've known that if there's one thing that's gonna disappoint, it's the **** roster.

Say what you want about the clones (proportionally they still form a minority--less than Melee's roster), but Brawl has the most diverse roster by far. Numbers aside, Pokemon Trainer and Olimar scream uniqueness on a level that isn't matched by any single SSB or SSBM character.

 

[Inkslinger]

i think i read that they started in mid/late 2005, could be wrong either way there are other factors to take into account. Overall i think the roster is fine, people would've felt a lot better about it without the character spoilers shown on the dojo imo.

I could care less about the 1 player mode, that's not the aspect of the game that has staying power.

 

[AIM0001]

I havnt bothered replying to $hit latly...But I think Wyvern said it best. I completly agree with you....Fox is my favorite character...All the way back in 1999 with the first smash and when melee came out I wasnt too trilled about Falco but accepted it..but now Wolf? Another Star Fox clone is outragous. WW Link...I knew nothing good would come of it...Ness should of either rested in peace or no lucas at all in Brawl. I knew Brawl was only gonna have around 30 some characters and I was hoping they would of made the best of filing those slots with 35 of the best characters but...It's gonna be a great game but the roster could of been a bit more solid. justa bit more solid...

 

[veil222]

I'll tell you most of his move set, neutral b, blaster, a slow bigger pulse than fox/falco, alot stronger, hitstun. Up+b, "firewolf" near instantaneous firefox straight up with a fair bit of height. <>+b, "wolf phantom", just like fox or falco, only it's angulated upward, no info on it's hit trajectory (like how falco's is a potential spike). No info on his reflector for me yet, I haven't seen it in use. All his smashes, tilts, and ariels are pretty much fox's, except the attack time is changed, hit boxes are a bit different, and seem to push more in some cases.

 

[Mama]

I don't see why you feel the need to complain or gripe. Ok you're disappointed boohoo thats not going to change anything. I'm perfectly fine with this roster. I didn't care about having MegaMan or Geno in the game and I'm not so ignorant as to consider a clone the spawn of satan and on top of all that the only character I was really pulling for was Sonic and he made it. I understand being upset about Wolf being a "clone" of Fox but if they're so easy to clone then how can you get upset and call them a waste of resources? If its really so easy to clone a character then the said characters clones are probably things that happened on the side and not the main focuses. You're forgetting all the other new characters that took so much time. Brawl is after all the Nintendo fans playground thats the Sakurai sees it which is why they focused on alternate play modes a lot. EGM put it best in their Brawl issue I think you should all take a while to read it.

Anyway be thankful for what you got and realize that complaining wont give you Geno or whoever it is you wanted. The roster may not be as large as we hoped (I wanted 40 at least) but I'm satisfied with what we got.

 

[~Krystal~]

I would have gladly sacrificed SSE for a half decent roster. Some of my favorites are in there (Snake, Lucario, WW Link) and I'm happy about that obviously, but I just do not like how we get 2 Luigified Star Fox reps. I am also disappointed that Sakurai made NO effort to include an Animal Crossing rep. This is the same guy who threw Game and Watch into the fray. Come now. Pitfall, Smashville, the AC icon, t3h muzak....it was all there and for what? No Animal Crossing rep?! A slap in the face to AC fans if you ask me.

I'm honestly not angry about Wolf getting in over Krystal, but couldn't they have at least made the guy unique? I can understand the Luigification of Falco, but Wolf is a different story. Giving him a landmaster as an FS displayed lazyness. R.O.B. is interesting, but not exactly a fan favorite. I'll let him slide because of his historical significance to Nintendo. I would have loved to see DKC get K. Rool, but that wasn't happening. Metroid reps are still an endangered species. This roster reaks of what could have been and it really could have been much better than it is now. =o/

 

[veil222]

You're lucky AC was represented at all, you probably wouldn't even be complaining if there were no AC representations, prolly wouldn't even be on your mind. At the least you'd be one of those people that think after the fact "Hey, it would have been cool if AC had been repped, wonder why Sakurai didn't?". Poor guy... he can't even put in an assist trophy without someone saying "OMG he's an AT!?!?! He should have been in the roster!!!!"

 

[fuuzball317]

i still don't believe that Sakurai could have made three characters almost exactly the same, I would need to see an official move set list for wolf to believe he is a clone too.

There is no reason AC should have a playable character, they have an assist trophy and level, thats enough, those characters have no move sets, and just live in their stupid town happy and gay, no reason any of them should be fighting, would ruin the game

 

[F@lc0-san]

i still don't believe that Sakurai could have made three characters almost exactly the same, I would need to see an official move set list for wolf to believe he is a clone too

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOvVO-FhJY

If that is a Fox clone, the I am Santa

 

[veil222]

They aren't almost exactly the same. If you look at all three of them together you see overlaps yeah, but they all have signifigant enough changes to where you're not gonna feel like "Well I may as well play wolf whenever I want to play fox from now on"

 

[F@lc0-san]

They aren't almost exactly the same. If you look at all three of them together you see overlaps yeah, but they all have signifigant enough changes to where you're not gonna feel like "Well I may as well play wolf whenever I want to play fox from now on"

Not exactly??

Wolf is TOTTALY different!

I'll quote NESSBOUNDER from my Wolf vid thread on the Wolf forums:

For starters, wolf fights using his claws as opposed to Fox and Falco. All of his smash attacks are totally different. His tilts are also different. That's much less of a clone than Falco is to Fox.

His Fsmash has AWESOME range and is a sliding palm/claw thrust lunge.

His up smash is a jumping two-legged upwards drop kick in Capoera style.

His down smash is a quick double-slash on either side with his claws.

His f-tilt is a swipe with his claws in front of him.

His weak combo is a 3-hit combo with knockback, unlike Fox who goes into a rapid kick.

Seriously, he's not a clone. He's even less of a clone than Luigi is to Mario.

How can you honestly call that a clone?

 

[veil222]

I wasn't , I was defending that at worst he's at least luigi distance from fox if not more.

 

[F@lc0-san]

I wasn't , I was defending that at worst he's at least luigi distance from fox if not more.

Oh sorry

Kinda annoyed here at some people who look at Wolf in action and go "Well he's still a Fox clone"

 

[GaryCXJk]

For me, even if this was the roster, but they changed around at least over half of the movesets for the clones (I wouldn't care less for Luigi, he's kind of fine right now), I would have been happy. Falco could have a better Final Smash. Like someone said, there was a quote from Falco commenting about the Landmaster Tank everytime Fox entered one.

"I'll never go in one of those. I'd take the sky any day."

Seriously, I feel cheated. The more because the Landmaster goes against everything Falco stands for. And it's inexcusable that Wolf has practically the same movesets as Fox, only other animations and maybe a slightly different outcome.

And indeed, Toon Link could just have a unique moveset, not a cloneset. At least we can hope his Final Smash will be unique. And why did they give Ness the same Final Smash as Lucas? They were already considered semi-clones. And Ganondorf. Sure, he has a shoryuken-like move instead of a grab now, but he could have been more unique if they just switched over his moveset. Hell, they could just replace one of his B-moves so that he would draw a sword. Now that would have been unique.

The current moveset is like, a delicious cake, but not properly baked. No matter how delicious, it always leaves a bad after-taste.

And about Wolf not being a clone, you could also say that about Ganondorf, but we're mostly talking about their B-moves. No matter how you look at it, the B-moves look similar.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I agree completely. The unlockable roster consists of 5 semi-clones (Luigi, Falco, Marth *yes, I know it should be Ike but Ike isn't unlockable but he's carries many of the same mechanics that Roy/Marth did in Melee*, Lucario *who has many of the mechanics of Mewtwo and really is, essentially, Mewtwo 2.0* and Ness *see Ike comment*), 3 clones (Toon Link, Ganondorf, and Wolf), a character that was once a starter (Captain Falcon), the two third party characters that were revealed months in advance (Snake and Captain Falcon), and ROB. As stated before, extremelly lacking in both creativity and originality given the sheer amount of time (27 months) and manpower (700 people) put into this game.

 

[F@lc0-san]

And about Wolf not being a clone, you could also say that about Ganondorf, but we're mostly talking about their B-moves. No matter how you look at it, the B-moves look similar.

A upward flying kick thing.
A blaster that doesnt even remotley resembles that of Fox/Falco(Or do you wanna say Zamus is a Fox clone too now?)
And a reflector....Ok, so i'll give you the reflector.

His side B isnt even a illusion/phantasm... He leaps forward AND upward, and not meven a bit upward, but WAY up.

That plus his vastly different A moves....

And you ppl still call him a clone?

OMFG.

 

[lumberheartwood]

I'm pretty content with the roster. Its just how they marketed the newcomers that bugs me. If they had instead made the veteran characters unlockable, and the newcomers the secrets, that would have made more people happy. In this case though, they made SSE the way it is and as a result, we have so many newcomers being starters. In turn, controversy is what keeps this game selling and no matter what you will say, people are still going to buy this game.

However, if Miyamoto does plan to make another Super Smash Bros. game, he better be planning how long the development team is going to take and not tell the public until like 10 years from now. He also better have told people that this game has been in development for a while so our next new roster will be over 40. Like the guy above said, it takes a month to make just ONE character. By having 21 veterans being graphically enhanced, thats a few weeks already. Along tweaking with the clones, thats another few more weeks. Now here is the tricky part, the newcomers. There is PK Trainer (who counts as three), Pikmin & Olimar, Wario, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Zero Suit Samus, Pit, Ike, Diddy Kong, Lucario (not really considering his moveset is likely a major tweaking of Mewtwo's), Robot, Snake, and Sonic. That's a year and a month with newcomers. Also, the rumor with Geno (It would take a month and a half taking him in and out). So there we go.

My expectations for SSB4 are now crafted from Brawl. I can't wait to play Brawl to get me over the decade long probable wait for SSB4 if they decide to make another one.

 

[Layupfreak]

im not sure about wolf being a clone.

 

[Bli33ard]

All rubbish, in my opinion.

Seriously, for Sakurai and his team to start from SCRATCH and still put out Melee x 2 content, it's amazing. Sure, Toon Link was a disappointment. But to be honest, these different variations of the blockbuster Nintendo characters do have the same moves! What do you expect! You'd have people moaning on and on like "OMG WTF Liknz arows r not in Wnd Wakre" if a certain move wasn't included in the latest Zelda game, but had been maintained in the last million games in the series. I'm sure Sakurai just wanted another character for a bit of variation. But at least we got rid of Dr. Mario and Pichu, huh? Unfortunately though, I do admit that Wolf = WTF. Why. Krystal would have been perfect - Maybe even whack Krystal in there, and take someone else out. *coughToonLinkcough* Who said that? I agree.

Come on guys. Sakurai and co. obviously didn't want the game to suck - and how can you deny their passion for making this video game? I'm sure 110% was put into this - and for the record - it probably took the same time to get Toon Link in as a PC to get Little Mac as an AT.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I think wolf is a pretty cool guy. eh not a clone and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[EPX2]

You guys are so absurdly ungrateful, disrespectful, and ignorant of how much sincere effort was necessary from the team behind this game to say some of the things you do about Brawl and the people behind it.

I hope that when you get the game you become a little bit more grateful.

Shut up and come back to this topic when you learn the difference between someone expressing disappointment with the game and someone bashing it. No, seriously, my post was directed EXACTLY at people like you who find it necessary to group everyone who says something that's not entirely positive about the game as being one and the same. Yes, while I can't speak for the topic creator, I'm such an "ungrateful" and "disrespectful" ******* for appreciating what Sakurai did do for Brawl, but feeling disappointed by the final roster. The NERVE of me to acknowledge how much work he put into SSE and expressing gratitude for that.

Please. I'm not going to kiss Sakurai's *** and act as if there's nothing wrong with the game when I honestly feel there is. I'm going to buy this game and chances are, I'm going to play it for years on end, so don't even bother with the lame "THEN DON'T BUY THE GAME, WHINER" comments that so many other respond with. I just feel that the roster could've been designed better. Simple as that.

 

[PikachuSSBM]

hmm. okay, dont you think sakurai came on these forums and seen the characters you all wanted? RIDLEY is too big, no he is. srsly. KKROOL. lol are you serious? XDXD krystal? WORST starfox adventures character in the history of EVER.

just be glad olimar lucario wolf and your old favorites are back in, ungrateful kretons.

 

[Mystic83]

I'm actually pretty glad that one of the focal points of the new features weren't new characters. First, we have a lot of amazing new characters which is fine with me. Sure, we didn't get everything but I wasn't expecting everything. Really, something that really matters to me is the inclusion of so many interesting things outside of characters. The SSE, for example, is a big one, and all of the little options in each little menu that make nearly no difference just in general make me happy. Sakurai&co. just went all out in fleshing out every bit of the game. Another important thing to me is the music, which there is obviously a lot of, which is just great. Characters are not the only thing that make the game, sure, they are what make the game fun years down the road, but the game is still quite possibly going to be the greatest game ever made due to the crazy amount of different things you can do in it aside from the brawls that will end up giving the game most of its depth later on anyway.

 

[PikachuSSBM]

people are complaining theres too much charactrers. lol.

 

[RedrappeR]

Idiots that think the roster is 'amazing' should be slapped. Why?

I'm studying Games Design + Games Programming.

I stopped reading there. "Guys, I'm studying this subject! so I know more than you!"

Well in that case... guess what. I use to make PC games. I used to also be a gaming Journalist. I like the roster. Go **** yourself if you don't like that. I don't go up to people disappointed with the game and yell at there face and tell them you're opinion is wrong. It's when people ***** endlessly without having an open mind I say anything. If someone likes something, let them like it. If they have a legitimate reason to be dissapointed, but at the same time their open minded, that's a different thing.

Then I reread the whole thing, and realized the rest of your post is speculation. You have no idea how long it takes to program this, because your weren't on the design team and what you're hinting at is motion capture, which hasn't even been confirmed to be a primary source for the model animations.

Prick.

 

[Fatmanonice]

All rubbish, in my opinion.

Seriously, for Sakurai and his team to start from SCRATCH and still put out Melee x 2 content, it's amazing. Sure, Toon Link was a disappointment. But to be honest, these different variations of the blockbuster Nintendo characters do have the same moves! What do you expect! You'd have people moaning on and on like "OMG WTF Liknz arows r not in Wnd Wakre" if a certain move wasn't included in the latest Zelda game, but had been maintained in the last million games in the series. I'm sure Sakurai just wanted another character for a bit of variation. But at least we got rid of Dr. Mario and Pichu, huh? Unfortunately though, I do admit that Wolf = WTF. Why. Krystal would have been perfect - Maybe even whack Krystal in there, and take someone else out. *coughToonLinkcough* Who said that? I agree.

Come on guys. Sakurai and co. obviously didn't want the game to suck - and how can you deny their passion for making this video game? I'm sure 110% was put into this - and for the record - it probably took the same time to get Toon Link in as a PC to get Little Mac as an AT.

Actually, Brawl wasn't from scratch because they used the programming from Melee as the base of their foundation. In other words, they had most of the basic elements (ie; physics) done right from the get-go and they basically built up from that.

 

[Blaze the cat]

If they only have enough time and resources to make 35 characters, then fine. I can accept that easily. But use that time to make the best 35-character roster you can! "Let's spend our precious time adding a clone of a clone of Fox" is not the thing a competent developer has any right to say when you have those sorts of limitations. If they had taken out Falco, Wolf, and Lucas, and instead put in, for example, Krystal, Ridley, and Simon Belmont or something, they would have used only slightly more development effort and the roster would have been twice as good as what we got.

Superb post. It was well-articulated, and above all, true. I applaud you, good sir.

 

[Fatmanonice]

hmm. okay, dont you think sakurai came on these forums and seen the characters you all wanted? RIDLEY is too big, no he is. srsly. KKROOL. lol are you serious? XDXD krystal? WORST starfox adventures character in the history of EVER.

just be glad olimar lucario wolf and your old favorites are back in, ungrateful kretons.

Your arguements suck for the following reasons:

Concerning Ridley- Olimar in his respective franchise is a few centimeters tall. That's where you arguement dies a firely death.

Concerning K. Rool- Been around longer then Ganondorf and has appeared in more games. He also has the angle of several different identities like Baron K. Roolenstein to draw moveset possibilities from.

Concerning Krystal- The first major reoccuring female Nintendo character since Samus and has been central to the plot for the last three Star Fox games.

Concerning Olimar- He was given because he was the only major Miyamoto franchise star that wasn't playable yet.

Concerning Lucario- Also a given and was still made into Mewtwo 2.0.

Concerning Wolf- You mock Krystal, a completely unique character, and uplift Wolf, a character that's an evil cliche of Fox? Enough said.

 

[GaryCXJk]

A upward flying kick thing.
A blaster that doesnt even remotley resembles that of Fox/Falco(Or do you wanna say Zamus is a Fox clone too now?)
And a reflector....Ok, so i'll give you the reflector.

His side B isnt even a illusion/phantasm... He leaps forward AND upward, and not meven a bit upward, but WAY up.

That plus his vastly different A moves....

And you ppl still call him a clone?

OMFG.

What's the difference between the Firefox and an upwards flying kick with a wind effect?

What's the difference between Wolf's blaster and Fox's / Falco's blaster? Note that Wolf's most resembles Melee Falco's.

Reflector was a given.

Side B is the only "somewhat" different, but it's still basically a dash forward. Both illusion and phantasm were dashes forward.

So, people still call him a clone, just as Ganondorf is still called a clone. His A moves are vastly different than Captain Falcon's, but that doesn't mean he's not a clone.

 

[RedrappeR]

Your arguements suck for the following reasons:

Concerning Ridley- Olimar in his respective franchise is a few centimeters tall. That's where you arguement dies a firely death.

Concerning K. Rool- Been around longer then Ganondorf and has appeared in more games. He also has the angle of several different identities like Baron K. Roolenstein to draw moveset possibilities from.

Concerning Krystal- The first major reoccuring female Nintendo character since Samus and has been central to the plot for the last three Star Fox games.

Concerning Olimar- He was given because he was the only major Miyamoto franchise star that wasn't playable yet.

Concerning Lucario- Also a given and was still made into Mewtwo 2.0.

Concerning Wolf- You mock Krystal, a completely unique character, and uplift Wolf, a character that's an evil cliche of Fox? Enough said.

You're arguments suck for the following reasons-

1. Lucario shares ONE F U CKING MOVE WITH MEWTWO. ONE. ONE MOVE. LET ME REPEAT. ONE F U CKING MOVE.
2. I'll quote you here.

Concerning Krystal- The first major reoccuring female Nintendo character since Samus

Stop there. Dixie. Sami. Female Pokemon Trainer. That's 3. But then again, they aren't in either. Just saying though, you can give better reasoning.

3. Read the post in the whole Wolf isn't a clone thread. Because he's like Akuma. That's like saying Ken, Ryu and Akuma in 3rd strike are clones. They aren't.

I'm just going to stop there, because you kind of get what I'm going for here in the post, so I'm just going to leave you with this. It honestly just seems like you're going around acting like a **** to people to try and get us down to the opinion to either hate the game developer or hold resentment. I'd rather argue to an honest person with an open mind, than someone who stop blocks and like to try and hammer his own opinion for the sake of others receiving a pessimistic outlook(you may call it "realistic", no it's not. Your arguments are valid, but other people have given just as valid arguments as yours).

you see what I'm saying. Sorry If I offend you. I'm just saying, that's what it seems like.

 

[Kyle29]

this is how i put it..... they spent too much time on the gimmicks (stagebuilder, masterpieces, SSE kinda), and did not tackle the core gameplay(characters, items). It's like putting on the icing before the cake is finished baking. I would give stage builder, masterpieces, for someone like ridley, krystal, or even roy playable. That is why everyone is complaining, not because 1 character diddn't make it.... several obious choices and were replaced with clones, and because toon link is in.... Its the characters that make the game great, not the gimmicks.

 

[Finn Macool]

. (Just look at Halo 3, the multiplayer's easy to develop, its the single player that takes time).


the multiplayer in halo 3 is completley different they can just take the single player mechanics and put them on maps, all they have to do to make it good is to design decent, balanced maps, in brawl they have to design the levels, the items and the characters so that it provides a balanced fighting game, a game like halo is inherently balanced due to the fact that all chars are the same however in smash they have to attempt to balance the very different chars and the gameplay so that no single tactic/tech dominates the game and makes it boring, add into that the extensive item list and different game modes they have to take into account and the amount of playtesting and refinement required would be huge
yes thegame wont be perfectly balanced (what fighters are) but if sakurai even comes close its due to massive amounts of work and game design skill
would people rather be playing a game with broken, boring gameplay and a hug character list or have a refined game with a decent list and a few clones thrown in

 

[OrlanduEX]

this is how i put it..... they spent too much time on the gimmicks (stagebuilder, masterpieces, SSE kinda), and did not tackle the core gameplay(characters, items). It's like putting on the icing before the cake is finished baking. I would give stage builder, masterpieces, for someone like ridley, krystal, or even roy playable. That is why everyone is complaining, not because 1 character diddn't make it.... several obious choices and were replaced with clones, and because toon link is in.... Its the characters that make the game great, not the gimmicks.

And the roster is fine.
If you haven't realized, the roster was decided before programming even began.
It's not like they messed up and ran out of space and had to put in only 35.
They never intended to include Ridley, Krystal etc.

And the many new additions to Brawl do not constitute "gimmicks". SSE is by no means a gimmick. It is a fleshed out, story driven single player mode that has more length than some other whole games.

Unlike you, some of us will actually ENJOY all the extra content in the game like all the music, modes of play and such.
This isn't Street Fighter or Tekken. Characters are by no means the only important factor of the game.

 

[Gerkuman]

Lets see what's iffy with this post...

One characters moves, design and programming to be fully developed without any hitches would normally take about 4 weeks (lets call it a month), with the right team and money (which Sakurai obviously had). Now obviously the game didn't go STRAIGHT into developed after Melee, but lets say they started work on 2004. Thats 4 years of development time. 52 x 4= 208 weeks. 208/4= 52. Thats 52 possible UNIQUE characters.

Actually, two and a half years. If you do your calculations, you get 32 characters. Hold that number in your head please.

Now instead, we've got 35 characters, 17 less than what could have been. But still, 35's a good number, right? After all, Soul Calibur 3 only had like 20 characters. Tekken only has around 30 characters... Most of SC's characters are unique, most of Tekken's characters are unique. So Brawl's got lots of characters compared to these games, yay, right? NO!

Fact is, and here's the killer part. Link has the EXACT same moves he's had in Melee (except for the FS). Mario has the same moves, Pikachu has the same moves... And etc. So there was (and I can guarantee this one) not a lot, if not any re-designing and re-shooting needed for a LOT of Brawl's characters. Sakurai just needed to take the original shot and design, upgrade it's graphics and re-program it a little so its stronger/weaker. How many 'repeats' do we have in Brawl? 21 returners in total. Thats including the Falco Clone and Shiek/Zelda thing. So thats 21 characters Sakurai didn't have to 're-shoot' all he had to do was take the original shot from Melee and upgrade its graphics and tweak its power an etc here and there. So that means, we have - 10=1 UNIQUE new comers, and 3 clones (Lucas/Ness, Gannondorf/Falcon and Fox/Falco/Wolf).

Heh. For a person who takes a VG course, I would've thought you'd know that it's difficult to port from one system to another. Not to mention that they had to make the physics engine directly ftom scratch. Oh, and all the models seem to be done from scratch too. So in other words, your calculations are still very iffy.

So 10 characters, that should take 10 months. So what happened to the other 3 years and 2 months? Well, for those of you who were wanting a 'good long hard single player' to satisfy your needs, well you got it. Storylines + Singleplayer modes can often take anything from 6 months to even 3 years to develop. (Just look at Halo 3, the multiplayer's easy to develop, its the single player that takes time). Now, I'm presuming each character or atleast half of them have a unique single player experience. IE Link starts in Hyrule, whilst Falcon starts in his car an etc... Now all of this can take a LOT of time to develop and get right, the single player has to 'flow' it can't look like it's just been thrown in and bit by bit...

Now we do have those Assist Trophies, Pokemon, Stickets, general items, challenges and etc too... And of course the designing for the levels and coding the game for new features and etc... All of that probably took a year to fully develop.

Probably longer than that even. You forget, he has a core team of 100 people; so I think it would take longer than a year to do. But even with your calculations, you'll find he has about a year or so left.

So we're down to 2 years and 2 months, the single player probably took 2 of those years to develop. Whilst the other 2 months was probably used debating who's in and who's out and etc - not to mention working on the online mode, which doesn't look too amazing atm.

So there we have it - Brawl's roster sucks because of the idiots that wanted a long hard single player to satisfy them.

But, as I just showed through my calculations, this can't be true. Because not only would re-programming the characters would take time, but the game had 18 months less development time than you think it did.

I'm not being disrespectful, I'm not being ******** - I'm being sensible. Fact is, we were promised less clones and a 'un-imagible roster' an we were given dog food. I know most of the newcomers were already revealed to us, so its less of a surprise - but the main problem is, the clones - they were un-needed and shouldn't be clones. I would have much preferred one new original newcomer rather than having Lucas + Wolf.

End of the **** story. Don't QFT, don't QFL, don't &^%$ing quote at all.

And so, we reach the main bit of your argument. Which, funnily enough was already said on this topic in multiple times. Also, I can quote if I want to, you have no authoriry over my typing keys. You have a flawed argument, and I felt like commenting on it.

 

[RedrappeR]

And the roster is fine.
This isn't Street Fighter or Tekken. Characters are by no means the only important factor of the game.

;_; Street Fighter doesn't only rely on characters... it's Got parrying and it's got EX moves and it's...

*sniffle*

 

[Fatmanonice]

You're arguments suck for the following reasons-

1. Lucario shares ONE F U CKING MOVE WITH MEWTWO. ONE. ONE MOVE. LET ME REPEAT. ONE F U CKING MOVE.

Nobody here seems to understand the mechanic similiarities between Ike and Marth/Roy and Lucario and Mewtwo... -__- Let me give an example, all three of Lucario's smash attacks work very similarly to Mewtwo's and almost have indentical animations.
2. I'll quote you here.


Stop there. Dixie. Sami. Female Pokemon Trainer. That's 3. But then again, they aren't in either. Just saying though, you can give better reasoning.

Technically, Dixie only stars in one game and the game's plot is very simplistic. Star Fox Adventures came before the first Advance Wars, I believe. The Female Pokemon trainer falls into the same boat as the Male Pokemon Trainer because their essentially the same character. Krystal, on the other hand, is playable in all three canon games she's in and is very involved with the plot in all of them, especially Command.

3. Read the post in the whole Wolf isn't a clone thread. Because he's like Akuma. That's like saying Ken, Ryu and Akuma in 3rd strike are clones. They aren't.

No one understands the concept of semi-clones either... I might as well be on the Game FAQs forums...

I'm just going to stop there, because you kind of get what I'm going for here in the post, so I'm just going to leave you with this. It honestly just seems like you're going around acting like a **** to people to try and get us down to the opinion to either hate the game developer or hold resentment. I'd rather argue to an honest person with an open mind, than someone who stop blocks and like to try and hammer his own opinion for the sake of others receiving a pessimistic outlook(you may call it "realistic", no it's not. Your arguments are valid, but other people have given just as valid arguments as yours).

So I'm the bad guy because I countered the other guys weak arguements against why the characters he listed didn't become playable? This is really is too much and I'm starting to become annoyed with the fact that so many of the "veterans" of these forums have taken a vacation. As, your comment is ironic because the other guy was essentially telling the people who supported those characters were idiots for even supporting those characters in the first place. In retrospect, I'm hardly a **** in comparison.

you see what I'm saying. Sorry If I offend you. I'm just saying, that's what it seems like.

If you're going to debate, it really hurts your arguement if you try to be politically correct? Seriously, who cares if you "hurt my feelings?" I've been a forum regular since the summer of 2005; I can handle "abuse."