People dropping Snake...

[Wilmenz]

So people have been recently dropping Snake for the simple reason that they just can't Ftilt a win anymore. I won't say no to the fact that i have thought of dropping him too, its right.

Its really hard to win with Snake but don't let just the simple fact of the metagame,game and its players evolving. I KNEW Snake wouldn't be "i ftilted, so you take 21% and die at 80% lololol" for so long. Snake is a character with clear advantages and clear disadvantages, the metagame just requires you to be smarter to do not get exploited by Snake's terrible airgame and lag.

Snake is indeed a simple character with simple options, he was always a kind of one dimensional character but since Ftilt is so good at punishing and does 21% people were just too gayed to admit it.

Since you guys love Snake and Snake loves you back, don't get mad at the fact that you just can't ftilt your way out of every bad situation like before. Dropping Snake won't help your community in any way.

(Sorry for my english)

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

What you're saying is true snake out camps and out boxes most characters but he just doesn't **** any characters besides the obvious ones. I'll say once again the tech thread needs to be revived and every snake needs to know them to mix up their game. Snake's metagame hasn't changed and characters have learned to get around it and then start beating snake. if snake wants to move up again he needs to get better at avoiding grabs at not get punished as hard when trying to land. I've started just pulling out nades and if my opponent want to hit me they risk getting a nade blown up on them.

edit: we need some "one does not simply f tilt into mordor" pics in here.

 

[Wilmenz]

Thanks... Also we need to pivot grab WAY MORE because its broken like that, Y'know pivot grab some meta faced ****** out of his tornado

EDIT: There i found it in the Ftilt thread

 

[BooM TX]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=265493

Snake's techs

*very important*

ftilt is a punisher, plain and simple.

Also, lol @ the picture

 

[iKiLLOTz]

I honestly think that people know the Snake matchup way to well and since Snake players arent "really changing" their style its just way too predictable for opposing players

 

[Attila_]

its hard to change when you're low on good options. a single solid oos or ledge option and snake would be the best in the game. they'd much such a big difference to his game.

 

[etecoon]

this topic is funny

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

snake needed a aerial that doesn't make him have at least a half second of lag to defend him self in the air and when going back to the stage. **** you SUCK-kri

 

[napZzz]

snakes a simple character who isn't keeping up as well these days, people wanna move on to something thats more interesting and diverse

cuz lets be real, snake is like, 70% nades then you throw in some grabs and tilts mixed with some sort of random situations for your other moves

a little exaggerated, but people prefer something that doesn't get destroyed trying to touch the ground/offstage and can fight back in the air and have aerials himself

 

[Mister Eric]

play ROBot.

 

[etecoon]

play ROBot.

some of us have an interest in winning yo

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The learning curve is starting to catch up with everyone. hehehe ~desu
The biggest problem with Snake I see it is that everyone finally realized his options are really good, but they are very limited. You cannot indeed Ftilt solve every solution, it becomes a mix-up game of choosing to grab when they shield, then Ftilt when they do not shield. With the explosives pounding all around you.
hehehe ~desu

 

[Wilmenz]

^^^^

Umm... Ftilt is just a punisher i know that but... people tend to throw it out blindly just to see if it hits and then receive the punishment.

Snake isn't invincible to punishment he can just take alot of it...

 

[Mister Eric]

some of us have an interest in winning yo

As do I <beep3

 

[napZzz]

OP doesn't know what he's talking about, people dont quit snake because they cant ftilt lol this isn't 08 we moved on past that

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

You cannot indeed Ftilt solve every solution,
hehehe ~desu

bull ****
10characters

 

[theONEjanitor]

snake is broken and if you're not ****** people with him ur doin it rong

2c

 

[Wilmenz]

I do know what i am talking about i just used the Ftilt example so anyone could understand the point i am getting at ._.

People have gotten better at the Snake MU and they know everything Snake is capable of to the point in which a single mistake can make us Snakes take a bunch of damage

 

[etecoon]

this topic is still hilarious

 

[Wilmenz]

Why is it hillarious!? This is serious bussiness >:/

 

[iamjason8]

this topic is still hilarious

I second this.

---

Really? Are that many people dropping Snake? I thought it was just really Ally (lol best Snake in the world). And is the reason that they're ditching him because they're not seeing as much potential as they used to (I'm assuming the F-Tilt thing was a not meant to be taken literally)? Or is it more that Snake is getting harder and harder to play whilst other characters get "better"? Even so there are only so many characters up to par with him.

OR people are getting lazy and just picking up stupid MK.

 

[napZzz]

snakes that aren't really names have been dropping snake

 

[-Ran]

Obviously there is still plenty of room for the average Snake player to gain by continuing to play the character. Currently no Snake player has reached Ally's prime which was around the start of this year. So anyone not named Ally, still has plenty of growth and potential left within Snake.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

You'll all be back anyway.

I feel like I have so much to learn with Snake and that I can really be up there if I keep going at it. Snake isn't perfect but he's still awesome. Im just going to learn him thoroughly. Better than quitting tbh.

 

[AfroQT]

The game is getting more offensive, and snake has no offense (or a really crappy one)

All anyone ever talks about is defense, his camp game blah blah, but in the last 7 or 8 months, the metagame is getting much more aggressive in nature. Gamespeed overall has increased (HONESTLY just watch matches from the last 3 months, and compare to as early as 7 or 8 months ago, then compare THAT to a year ago and more.) I think that snakes playstyle has changed significantly. It's not even a matter of camping, or grenade set ups. To what its changing to, im not sure. From what i saw from Snakes at MLG Raleigh, its much more about throwing out your hitboxes, hoping for trades, expecting people not to be 100% sure of snakes surprising range/priority. But honestly once you start going down that path...roads not looking good.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Offensive? May I see examples??

Anyway, I feel that we need to grab more to help deter the opponent from shielding within ftilt range.
I wish his standing grab didn't suck rangewise.

 

[AfroQT]

Offensive? May I see examples??

Anyway, I feel that we need to grab more to help deter the opponent from shielding within ftilt range.
I wish his standing grab didn't suck rangewise.

Any recent video between 2 great players is an example, im not gonna search a particularly "great example" up atm.

Basically watch any video of a top player now, compare it to a video of the same top player but 7+ months ago, and look at how its changed.

 

[Orion*]

coming from someone who used to just time people out, and copied spammers 08 style, i have to agree with afro on this one

 

[Max113]

I've never played by that logic, but I still loose because I take freaking 50-100% from simply getting shield pushed off the stage. It get's f***ing annoying.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

Snake is seckz, he's my only secondary, I won't be dropping him.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

IMO, in this context, Snake is only one-dimensional because we made him this way.
I haven't been able to go to tournaments, but I feel that we all need to experiment moar with both overused and underused moves and find new ways to use them.

We may find a foil to a common anti-Snake strategy.

If we don't we will fall behind and lose our relevance in the Metagame.

 

[etecoon]

I actually think snake's metagame expanded at a rate faster than anyone not named meta knight, snake's players didn't make him one dimensional at all. his limitations are simply clear when you actually look at his tools, things that no player can change

 

[Limeee]

the problem with snake is we have to cook our grenades, which leaves us vulnerable

what i'm trying to say is if i throw a grenade, they will just throw it back

i know, i know, theres grenade stripping, but its very predictable, and you can just pick the god **** grenade up again if its not cooked
tis frustrating
i hope this makes sense to everyone, cuz its 2:30 here

 

[napZzz]

nades can work against you at closer ranges just as much as they help you with just a small mistake or two

its not even about trying to aim to hit people with nades its more about trying to confuse them into a spot where you can hit them n ****...idk

 

[AfroQT]

IMO, in this context, Snake is only one-dimensional because we made him this way.
I haven't been able to go to tournaments, but I feel that we all need to experiment moar with both overused and underused moves and find new ways to use them.

We may find a foil to a common anti-Snake strategy.

If we don't we will fall behind and lose our relevance in the Metagame.

Snake isnt one-dimensional, his playstyle simply does not mesh well with the current meta game. The game 2 years ago (when snake was at prime? Maybe a year and a half), camping was the the way to go for almost every character. The game was played much much slower. You see people opting for rolling/sidesteps as their movement options instead of true movement. Players BELOW the top level are starting to really improve their technical skill, and play at much faster paces. Snake is a defensive character, he always has been. As ran said hes punishment based. Snake cannot launch a very good offensive without a hard read, which is bad.

MORE IMPORTANTLY even if you don't agree wjith what i said above. There is no way you can deny that Snake is starting to get hurt much much more from smaller and smaller mistakes. Being sent off the stage can literally mean stock against a large portion of the high tier characters. On top of that, Snake doesn't even have the powerful matchups he used to have, he goes even with many mid tier characters, many high tiers and loses to a few as well.

ON TOP OF THIS
You have a character whos movement at best is sloppy and slow, which opens him up to very hard counterpicks against certain characters (RC vs MK anyone???). Along with his heavy weight, which is a blessing in some matchups, its a curse in others as it allows him to be cg'd, which opens up even more counterpicks to be used against him. Meanwhile there are few counterpicks that Snake can use to make matchups even.

Now im NOT crying abuot Snake, i love Snake man. But this is just...how it is.
The Snake boards arent the brawl tact boards so if you disagree with what i said...thats fine, but atleast provide some reasoning.

SNAKE

 

[Limeee]

nades can work against you at closer ranges just as much as they help you with just a small mistake or two

its not even about trying to aim to hit people with nades its more about trying to confuse them into a spot where you can hit them n ****...idk

lol don't get me wrong, grenades are still amazing. it just bugs me when people say its the best projectile with infinite possiblities.

but yeah they're good for zoning, but when we base our game off them, its hard against someone who knows what to do



EDIT: and i agree with afro

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

afro is right. I remember thinking when i was watching the apex live stream and in particular DEHF's falco that the game has gotten so much faster. Even DEHF's camping was aggressive. Snake needed one aerial to be better.

 

[makoforce]

what about bair

 

[Tech-Nelium the Shark]

one cannot approach with bair. bair is the best aerial in snake's arsenal best some thing like marth's fair or dk's bair would make snake able to defend himself when falling and he could approach with it.

 

[AfroQT]

Snake needed one aerial to be better

100% true brothaaaaa.