Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[crazycrackers]

I would say that the Peach vs. Olimar is 65/35 in Peach's favor. Peach counters (almost) everything that Olimar has. Pikmin throw is easy to deal with for three reasons:

1. Peach has no attacks with an elemental quality meaning that any attack of hers will damage a pikmin. This is different with characters such as ROB. ROB's Bair, Nair, Dair, and Usmash cannot hit off a pikmin with fire qualities. ROB's laser and Fsmash cannot hit off a pikmin with electric qualities. However all of Peach's attacks are regular in terms of the qualities given to them giving her huge options when it comes to hitting pikmen.

2. Peach's hitboxes on her attacks are generaly large in size. For example, her Nair covers her entire body making it easy to hit off pikmen. A sideB will also deal with them well. Again, this is different for other characters.

3. Peach's damage is good and her damage range is small. On average, a move of hers will do between 10-15%. Dair=14%, Nair=13%, Bair=14%, Fair=15%, Uair=13%, SideB=15%, Usmash=12-18% (depending on where you hit), Fsmash=12-18% (depending on what you get), Dsmash= 5-21%, Ftilt=6-13%, Dtilt=10%, Utilt=13%. Those are some of Peach's moves that might be used to hit a pikmin off. All of them are highly capable of doing so and therefore, Peach has many options in this matter.

Olimars grab game is also countered by Peach because of her quick attacks and ability to stay in the air for so long. Because Olimar now cannot grab/camp well, he is forced to use his deadly ground or air game. The problem with this however, is that his ground game is not at all flexible in the way that it cannot deal with diagnol approaches well. As a result, Peach's Dair approach is very difficult to beat using Olimar since his Fsmash will not hit and his Usmash won't do much either. Spaced Fairs/Dairs will do hefty damage to Olimar. Next comes his air game which is just flat-out outranged by Peach making aerial combat also difficult. Finally, there is Olimar's recover which can be gimped by only one turnip if Olimar doesn't have his jump. Olimar's jump is also easy to get rid of in the first place so off-stage he is extremely vulnerable.

 

[Peachkid]

edresse i can help out too. maybe i can ask some more wolves for their opinions on whats good and whats not. also aim me if u like. im usually on and ill be more than happy to write up a summary/essay/novel/epic about the wolf peach match up.

pp777 getting rid of the pikmin wouldnt affect olimar to to much pluck has very very little lag, unless hes like really close and near a ledge which u could kill his pikmin and then send him off the edge. but overall the pikmin should be the least of your worries, its olimar that we need to take care of. dsmash works well here cause it throws his pikmin off and they get desynched. get a good hit after a dsmash and you could be looking at a gimp. you fgot the right idea that olimar greatly lacks without pikmin. but heavily concentrating on eliminating his pikmin would be impractical

Hope some of my advice helps

 

[crazycrackers]

indeed I know that pikmin pluck is easy to just do again. I was saying that it automaticaly puts the Olimar player at a disadvantage because it means that he will most likely not use as many pikmen in the future since he knows how little they affect a Peach player. This gives you less to deal with and therefore eliminates an entire part of Olimar's strategy

 

[DanGR]

hmmm....peach, our single hardest matchup by far. We've got it listed as 70-30 for Peach. It's not fair. >_<

We had peach week a while ago. Here's what we discussed: (pg24-25) http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172222&page=24

I'm still in agreement with what was said during the discussion. I'll gladly answer any questions you guys have because you've so kindly helped us. Ask awaaaaaay...

 

[White-Peach]

If he throws his Pikmin at you you can either: Bomber (it kills his Pikmin and you can follow up with a move after the impact), if you get him by them you can kill them with slaps very fast since they come out uber fast (or Dsmash), or you can Toad them and hit Olimar with the spores.

Just to clarify and reiterate, a pikmin that has latched on lets you use toad's spores as a projectile weapon. You can position yourself (after a pikmin has latched on) and spray olimar with spores. Even when Olimar players learn to expect it, a peach running at them and creating a wall/shield of projectiles to knock them off the stage is pretty annoying. And hey, you're refreshing your other moves with an underused one, win/win.

 

[deepseadiva]

Just to clarify and reiterate, a pikmin that has latched on lets you use toad's spores as a projectile weapon. You can position yourself (after a pikmin has latched on) and spray olimar with spores. Even when Olimar players learn to expect it, a peach running at them and creating a wall/shield of projectiles to knock them off the stage is pretty annoying. And hey, you're refreshing your other moves with an underused one, win/win.

I love doing that.

Anyways, I HATE HATE HATE the upsmash - it always gets me to this day. ARG.

 

[Excellence]

Does anyone disagree that this match-up is NOT 70:30, in Peach's favor? I'm happy to answer any questions reguarding Olimar's reponses and ability to deal with Peach.

 

[asob4]

i remember edrees agreeing it's 70-30/63-35 on aib >_>

for the most part, we can use our magnificent pikmin chain to stop any aerial approach :D
tossed purples work wonders like they do vs every offensive character
and we can kill somewhat early

getting those kill moves off and building the damage can be troublesome to say the least, but still possible i would think

uhhh yeah every where else peach ***** us :D

 

[Snail]

65/35 in Peach's favor easily. Might even be 70/30, I dunno. She's a pain ._.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I feel this matchup to be 70-30. Here's my take.

Olimar is a character thats really strong, and has great combos. However, his priority is not very good. And Peach's priority is up the roof. Most of Peach's moves claw right through Olimar's attacks - I don't know anything that down air and back air don't go through. Back air's can be buffered into jab to grab - that's my favorite tactic. Olimar players even WITH Peach experience who not not to try to grab her after forward air- well when you back air, for some reason they try the grab, and it doesn't work. Peach has a massive range of options. She can ground float back airs, she can approach from the air with down airs.

Olimar can take her out with UP B to knock her out of the air, but I find the best way to counter this strategy is to throw a turnip first - creates a mondo distraction that doesn't let them just take the turnip hit, so they can't stand there up Bing.

Also, edgeguarding Olimar is a matter of using the turnip really well. Just position the turnip to hit him and chase him after it - if he uses the pikmin call as super armor, it'll work on the turnip, but then he'll eat the forward air. If he air dodges, he'll dodge the turnip, and eat a forward air. Peach just has wayyy too much priority, positioning and options for Olimar I see it as a 70-30 match. There's a few tactics Olimar can employ to beat many Peach's, and good use of his combos, but a lot of these require lack of smart play or experience on the peach's part; as Praxis said the olimar player has to very significantly outplay her, though it can be done.

One thing I really like doing in this match up is spamming short hop down air as an approach. Eats pikmin along the way, doesn't let him attack, and UP B doesn't work great. The float is a bit predictable and seasoned Olimar's will find a way around it, but I never found a a single olimar player who had an answer to short hop down airs in succession.

 

[asob4]

i'd play you edrees, but i'm a-scared of peaches so i go GnW >.<

for upB, you'll never see an olimar player do a standing one, as it has far too much lag
we'll usually do a short hopped upB and land laglessly into another attack or proceed to run away/at you

also, when recovering, if we must, we WILL spam the WAC
and don't underestimate the length of the tether either, i've recovered from pretty **** far many times

"I don't know anything that down air and back air don't go through"

that bugged me >_> cause upB goes through everything

 

[crazycrackers]

i'd play you edrees, but i'm a-scared of peaches so i go GnW >.<

for upB, you'll never see an olimar player do a standing one, as it has far too much lag
we'll usually do a short hopped upB and land laglessly into another attack or proceed to run away/at you

also, when recovering, if we must, we WILL spam the WAC
and don't underestimate the length of the tether either, i've recovered from pretty **** far many times

"I don't know anything that down air and back air don't go through"

that bugged me >_> cause upB goes through everything

As Edrees already stated, Olimar is pretty much helpless when offstage against a GOOD Peach. And when it comes to Olimar's recovery distance it is not the actual distance that makes him very easy to gimp. Its the fact that its only a tether recover and can be easily edgehogged if Olimar is far away and his jump won't help him much. Or simply if Olimar doesn't have his jump. Peach also has the best edgehog method in the game currently meaning that edgeguarding Oli is easy for her. In addition, the upB can be dealt with because while your right, the upB will beat Dair, if the Peach approaches with turnips first then they will get rid of the option of upBing to stop the Peach's approach. And if you are both in the air then you shouldn't even be since your not going to beat Peach in the air as most characters.

 

[Praxis]

One thing I really like doing in this match up is spamming short hop down air as an approach. Eats pikmin along the way, doesn't let him attack, and UP B doesn't work great. The float is a bit predictable and seasoned Olimar's will find a way around it, but I never found a a single olimar player who had an answer to short hop down airs in succession.

I love doing this as well It's worth noting that Dair helps get Pikmin off you, but forward-B instantly removes all Pikmin and you can also use Toad as an attack since the Pikmin will set it off instantly (run at olimar and toad so that his own pikmin attached set it off).



Olimar's best kill move is upsmash, which actually doesn't get through your dair, so usually Oli will do it when he's distracting you with thrown pikmin or something else.

The fun part is that even if the Olimar wins, Peach has a set of counterpicks that are almost a guaranteed win. While Rainbow Cruise ***** Olimar pretty badly...Jungle Japes is just pretty much a free win. Touching the water eliminates all of Olimars pikmin and usually kills him if you just grab the next ledge and sit there (since he can't attack). His only good kill move is negated by the abnormally tall ceiling.

I'd go 65-35 or 70-30.

 

[asob4]

at what trajectory do peaches kill moves usually send the opponent?

fair is usually horizontal, no?
if we get sent up AT ALL, we will recover

anything not multihitter while we're at higher percents will usually get whistled to ensure our survival


jungle japes isn't that bad
we'll go for the middle and take control of it or camp the right side
if we go in the water (somehow, i don't know how you would get us in there ????) then the blues will survive and we'll end up with mostly blues with killer bthrows on the shallow walls. down smash is also a great killer and falling nair sets up perfect for it (true combo)

it still is **** for peach, don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to clear a few things up

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

I'd say that's a bit much to say, there, about you basically being guaranteed a recovery if you're sent up whatsoever. That's why there are turnips and such. They commonly don't hit far, but that's enough to stop trajectory and bring you down a little bit. Not to mention, Peach is still one of the best edgeguarders in the game because of her float. If Olimar gets too close to her, he has to either hit her first or hope to get around her and still grab the ledge. If she has a turnip tossed, you can choose to either super armor the turnip or hope there's enough time after to super armor the following attack(if there is one). Not saying it's not easier, but saying you WILL recover if sent up at all is a bit much.

Jungle Japes... you'd have to be lucky to have a lot of blues, or able to keep Peach away from you long enough so you can pull, sacrifice pikmin you don't want, and pull again. Otherwise, if Oli gets into the river, his options will momentarily be a lot lower than he was going into it. He also doesn't have much time to worry about such things because of the tide's swift current, and an imminent turnip flying at him to try and knock him back in. If he's close to the left side of the stage when he falls in, all Peach really has to do is toss a turnip and hold the side. Since she's on the ledge, it won't automatically make the Pikmin shoot toward it. If he isn't in a good position to hit Peach with the pikmin, chances are he'll still die(and Peach can recover if she jumps fast enough with her newly refreshed float).

That brings me to the next point. If Olimar tries to grab too many pikmin when he newly comes back, Peach can instantly attack him. I know it was a while back, but when I did play one of my first few Olimars, I faired him. Instead, I hit every pikmin he was picking and THEN him. It won't hold water against experienced Olimar players who know that, but it's something to keep in mind.

 

[asob4]

I'd say that's a bit much to say, there, about you basically being guaranteed a recovery if you're sent up whatsoever. That's why there are turnips and such. They commonly don't hit far, but that's enough to stop trajectory and bring you down a little bit. Not to mention, Peach is still one of the best edgeguarders in the game because of her float. If Olimar gets too close to her, he has to either hit her first or hope to get around her and still grab the ledge. If she has a turnip tossed, you can choose to either super armor the turnip or hope there's enough time after to super armor the following attack(if there is one). Not saying it's not easier, but saying you WILL recover if sent up at all is a bit much.

chances are high that we will recover if sent upwards. we can airdodge then WAC >_> why does everyone assume oli's don't airdodge?

Jungle Japes... you'd have to be lucky to have a lot of blues, or able to keep Peach away from you long enough so you can pull, sacrifice pikmin you don't want, and pull again. Otherwise, if Oli gets into the river, his options will momentarily be a lot lower than he was going into it. He also doesn't have much time to worry about such things because of the tide's swift current, and an imminent turnip flying at him to try and knock him back in. If he's close to the left side of the stage when he falls in, all Peach really has to do is toss a turnip and hold the side. Since she's on the ledge, it won't automatically make the Pikmin shoot toward it. If he isn't in a good position to hit Peach with the pikmin, chances are he'll still die(and Peach can recover if she jumps fast enough with her newly refreshed float).

who said anything about going specifically for blue, i meant if we go into the water our blue's will survive and we will have more. i never said to try for blues >_> pulling pikmin takes a fraction of second and i am constantly plucking whenever possible, you gonna keep me from having 6 at all times? doubt it.

no one answered how exactly peach will get us into the water. not only is oli floaty but at times it seems like he's cemented to the ground. and we wouldn't be caught dead in the air vs peach unless we have a sure hit.

also, any oli who doesn't save his jump is a ******. to recover we will usually do a rising aerial. not too great against peach but it usually scares people off the ledge and the length of the chain will come into play as we fall while you get up.
i'd let myself get hit with your turnip and then do a rising aerial/WAC to get back on stage.

That brings me to the next point. If Olimar tries to grab too many pikmin when he newly comes back, Peach can instantly attack him. I know it was a while back, but when I did play one of my first few Olimars, I faired him. Instead, I hit every pikmin he was picking and THEN him. It won't hold water against experienced Olimar players who know that, but it's something to keep in mind.

we do watch where you are >_> we're not just oblivious to everything when we pull our pikmin, also, pikmin pluck has some invincible frames when he pulls his head back. but yes you are right no seasoned olimar will fall for that >_>


olimar players aren't idiots, and sometimes it seems like you make us out to be just that
we're some of the more focused players out there

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

chances are high that we will recover if sent upwards. we can airdodge then WAC >_> why does everyone assume oli's don't airdodge?

That's a better statement than what you previously said, and something I can agree with. And air dodging off the stage with Peach around is dangerous. Her float allows for chasing air dodges if you are high enough, and her nair lasts forever and a half, going through a good amount of air dodges. I don't assume these things, because I brought up the turnips and her float. It isn't impossible to get around her, but how you worded it made it seem like it's a given he'll be coming back.

who said anything about going specifically for blue, i meant if we go into the water our blue's will survive and we will have more. i never said to try for blues >_> pulling pikmin takes a fraction of second and i am constantly plucking whenever possible, you gonna keep me from having 6 at all times? doubt it.

no one answered how exactly peach will get us into the water. not only is oli floaty but at times it seems like he's cemented to the ground. and we wouldn't be caught dead in the air vs peach unless we have a sure hit.

also, any oli who doesn't save his jump is a ******. to recover we will usually do a rising aerial. not too great against peach but it usually scares people off the ledge and the length of the chain will come into play as we fall while you get up.
i'd let myself get hit with your turnip and then do a rising aerial/WAC to get back on stage.

Well, let's see what you said. You said that going in the water at all will leave you blues with killer back throws, which openly assumes we're just going to let you back on the stage without trying to keep you there with a turnip. And you're right, keeping you from pulling ANY pikmin is a bit of a stretch, but limiting the time you have to pull and such leaves you having to fend without the full 6 most times if the Peach is aggressive.

Also, getting Olimar into the water there is a bit tough, but it does happen. Turnips, a Klaptrap leaping up and biting either of us, a Peach Bomber that pops off your pikmin(and you if you tried to punish when that happens), a tennis racket hits just about pure horizontal, slaps that take away a jump... It isn't like you can easily say that Peach won't trick people once in a while with a mindgame or her spacing, which floating allows. Also, if she somehow gets a grab on Olimar by the lower edges, she can just hammer the attack and let you drop out of her hand. That puts him at a high risk of falling into the water or worse.

Oh, and the jump thing. That's the same as most characters, there, but Jungle Japes, the stage this is based on right now, does not allow you to get hit by a turnip and not have Olimar in some sort of compromising situation. Either he's knocked lower/stunned into Peach's range, if he's higher up and she chased it, or he's knocked lower and further toward the rapids underneath him. A rising aerial will hit the overly aggressive Peach most times, sure, but what about one that used her float to go out there? It'll probably work the first time or two, but if it keeps happening, Peach could always learn and float back out of your range, then back in with an attack to punish. Or, even better, she could instead grab the ledge, you miss the attack, and the lag from the move allows her to let go and hit you again with an aerial. This doesn't even consider Peach and Oli trading hits, and if Oli is THAT close to the blast side, a fair, if not overly decayed, will most likely spell instant death, and DI allows Peach to be over the stage in the case of a trade.

we do watch where you are >_> we're not just oblivious to everything when we pull our pikmin, also, pikmin pluck has some invincible frames when he pulls his head back. but yes you are right no seasoned olimar will fall for that >_>

olimar players aren't idiots, and sometimes it seems like you make us out to be just that
we're some of the more focused players out there

And we don't watch? If an Olimar does get greedy, that could possibly happen. If it ever does, I wouldn't count on it happening more than once.

I've never once said Olimar players are idiots. You're presenting situations, and I'm presenting holes that can be exploited by Peach. I'm not calling you one, and yeah, you have to be focused. But that statement kinda makes me think you view me as a pompous Peach player that doesn't know what I'm talking about, which is actually kinda insulting.

 

[asob4]

That's a better statement than what you previously said, and something I can agree with. And air dodging off the stage with Peach around is dangerous. Her float allows for chasing air dodges if you are high enough, and her nair lasts forever and a half, going through a good amount of air dodges. I don't assume these things, because I brought up the turnips and her float. It isn't impossible to get around her, but how you worded it made it seem like it's a given he'll be coming back.



Well, let's see what you said. You said that going in the water at all will leave you blues with killer back throws, which openly assumes we're just going to let you back on the stage without trying to keep you there with a turnip. And you're right, keeping you from pulling ANY pikmin is a bit of a stretch, but limiting the time you have to pull and such leaves you having to fend without the full 6 most times if the Peach is aggressive.

Also, getting Olimar into the water there is a bit tough, but it does happen. Turnips, a Klaptrap leaping up and biting either of us, a Peach Bomber that pops off your pikmin(and you if you tried to punish when that happens), a tennis racket hits just about pure horizontal, slaps that take away a jump... It isn't like you can easily say that Peach won't trick people once in a while with a mindgame or her spacing, which floating allows. Also, if she somehow gets a grab on Olimar by the lower edges, she can just hammer the attack and let you drop out of her hand. That puts him at a high risk of falling into the water or worse.

Oh, and the jump thing. That's the same as most characters, there, but Jungle Japes, the stage this is based on right now, does not allow you to get hit by a turnip and not have Olimar in some sort of compromising situation. Either he's knocked lower/stunned into Peach's range, if he's higher up and she chased it, or he's knocked lower and further toward the rapids underneath him. A rising aerial will hit the overly aggressive Peach most times, sure, but what about one that used her float to go out there? It'll probably work the first time or two, but if it keeps happening, Peach could always learn and float back out of your range, then back in with an attack to punish. Or, even better, she could instead grab the ledge, you miss the attack, and the lag from the move allows her to let go and hit you again with an aerial. This doesn't even consider Peach and Oli trading hits, and if Oli is THAT close to the blast side, a fair, if not overly decayed, will most likely spell instant death, and DI allows Peach to be over the stage in the case of a trade.



And we don't watch? If an Olimar does get greedy, that could possibly happen. If it ever does, I wouldn't count on it happening more than once.

I've never once said Olimar players are idiots. You're presenting situations, and I'm presenting holes that can be exploited by Peach. I'm not calling you one, and yeah, you have to be focused. But that statement kinda makes me think you view me as a pompous Peach player that doesn't know what I'm talking about, which is actually kinda insulting.

since i'm too lazy to multiquote... lol

um airdodge->whistle happen almost instantly (i think) and we can constantly alternate, or spam whistle lol
when whistle is done, you can FF ith it and go through long lasting moves. more than once have i WAC'd all of ROB's up air and proceeded to punish

if we do go in the water, yes the blues will survive and we will have more.
it is surprisingly easy to get back on the stage, as we would be on the far right the majority of the time. meaning the rapids will take us to the other side of the stage away from peach and her turnips. getting our jump back when we go in the water and jumping back on stage, proceeding to pluck one or two pikmin.
can you really get to us within one second to stop us from pulling the pikmin we need? if we need any we'll do an upB (jump, land with 0 lag) to push you away and pluck when we land
all of olimar's tilts have good priority and knockback giving us free time to pluck

which direction does peach bomber send you? tennis racket is 1/3 chance, and that slap is scary o.0
if she does manage to grab olimar by a ledge, upB right away as we fall will latch on and hit you if you are near the ledge pushing you away.

we fear turnips, we will WAC spam if need be
a rising up air is hard to avoid. it beats out nearly every down air in the game (even GnW's key :o) it also has great range that keeps us the hell away from you. if it is a yellow or red being used in the up air, it has a somewhat bigger hitbox and will knock any floating peaches away from us.
We can do 2 up airs, one rising one falling and still be able to latch onto the stage from below (not japes for obvious reasons)
the up air will like never trade due to it's tremendous range

*note: almost more than ever we will do a rising up air to return

vs peach, no smart olimar will get greedy lol

i did not mean you but a lot of people in general underestimate oli players (which is good :D) but people forget that we know how to air dodge too and that once we are off the stage it does not mean certain death
don't worry, by your arguments i can tell your smart :D

it is still peach's advantage but do not, i mean do NOT underestimate our little slave driver :D

 

[Zankoku]

um airdodge->whistle happen almost instantly (i think) and we can constantly alternate, or spam whistle lol
when whistle is done, you can FF ith it and go through long lasting moves. more than once have i WAC'd all of ROB's up air and proceeded to punish

An air-dodge leaves about 10 frames of vulnerability where you cannot do ANYTHING - technically you're still air-dodging but you no longer have invulnerability frames. ROB's uair is an attack with multiple rapid hitboxes. Peach's nair is one long, continuous hitbox. You can air-dodge and 1-frame-response ROB's uair. You have absolutely no options out of air-dodge against Peach's nair because you will get hit before you even regain control of your character.

if we do go in the water, yes the blues will survive and we will have more.
it is surprisingly easy to get back on the stage, as we would be on the far right the majority of the time. meaning the rapids will take us to the other side of the stage away from peach and her turnips. getting our jump back when we go in the water and jumping back on stage, proceeding to pluck one or two pikmin.

If you end up in the water, you're generally going to end up recovering on the left side of the stage. Since whoever picked Japes probably knows this, Peach can easily just run over to that side of the stage and wait for you to jump up. Don't assume for a moment you're going to get a completely safe return just because you let yourself get carried across the stage by a completely linear river rapid.

can you really get to us within one second to stop us from pulling the pikmin we need? if we need any we'll do an upB (jump, land with 0 lag) to push you away and pluck when we land
all of olimar's tilts have good priority and knockback giving us free time to pluck

There's many ways to punish an Up+B with no landing lag, just like it's possible to punish an auto-canceled aerial. Most of those ways involve punishment before the character is able to even land.

we fear turnips, we will WAC spam if need be
a rising up air is hard to avoid. it beats out nearly every down air in the game (even GnW's key :o) it also has great range that keeps us the hell away from you. if it is a yellow or red being used in the up air, it has a somewhat bigger hitbox and will knock any floating peaches away from us.
We can do 2 up airs, one rising one falling and still be able to latch onto the stage from below (not japes for obvious reasons)
the up air will like never trade due to it's tremendous range

Why would Peach edgeguard with a dair? This isn't Melee, she's not about to combo dair>nair on you or something. You can expect a fair, nair, bair, uair, turnip, or hell, even Peach Bomber or Parasol if the Peach player is feeling courageous, silly, or tipsy, but I can't think of a single reason why any Peach would see fit to launch you STRAIGHT UPWARD with a dair for an edgeguard.

i did not mean you but a lot of people in general underestimate oli players (which is good :D) but people forget that we know how to air dodge too and that once we are off the stage it does not mean certain death
don't worry, by your arguments i can tell your smart :D

Everybody knows how to airdodge while recovering. As a result, everybody who has at least paid attention in the last six months will recognize it and know how to bait and punish it.

 

[asob4]

you're mean ankoku stop proving me wrong and being smart

but if we are forced to do a rising aerial we would be below, what would hit us otherwise? they could try to just grab the ledge but either the first or second up air would hit them off or scare them away

and i was talking about WACing through ROB's upair, it's even easier to WAC through a singular, long lasting hitbox (GnW's fair, Luigi's nair, Peach's nair) and proceed to punish (if possible)

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

but if we are forced to do a rising aerial we would be below, what would hit us otherwise? they could try to just grab the ledge but either the first or second up air would hit them off or scare them away

In both cases, I don't see how it pertains to Peach too well. To do something like that without Peach being able to do much than grab the ledge, you'd have to be directly below the ledge. If you're at an angle, Peach can trade a hit with you. If you do what you suggest, she can instead grab the ledge, let go with a float and immediately let go again to regain the invincibility for the second one. And if you're exactly where you are to stop a punishing aerial, you're going straight back down. Peach wouldn't even have to budge to make sure the up B doesn't grab the ledge at that point.

and i was talking about WACing through ROB's upair, it's even easier to WAC through a singular, long lasting hitbox (GnW's fair, Luigi's nair, Peach's nair) and proceed to punish (if possible)

You just said you'd do it out of air dodge. ^_^; You'd have no time if you air dodged to get out of Peach's nair.

 

[P.O.P.]

you're mean ankoku stop proving me wrong and being smart

but if we are forced to do a rising aerial we would be below, what would hit us otherwise? they could try to just grab the ledge but either the first or second up air would hit them off or scare them away

and i was talking about WACing through ROB's upair, it's even easier to WAC through a singular, long lasting hitbox (GnW's fair, Luigi's nair, Peach's nair) and proceed to punish (if possible)

u people are outnumbered just give up lol ^_^
The point everyone is trying to make is that generally in terms of attacks etc. peach has a solid advantage against olimar hands down. There is no need to debate about complicated BS! -.-'

 

[asob4]

pretty sure it's understood peach is olimar's worse match up, actually beating out MK

i just want you guys to know that not all your peachy shenanigans will work on us! (just the vast majority)

but they did come into our boards asking for our input on the match up, i am just doing what was asked

 

[EdreesesPieces]

i dunno, those shenanigans have worked against every oli i've ever played..and ive been to A LOT of tournaments

 

[DanGR]

If Olimar recovers from above, he should make it back. In that situation WAC (whistle armor cancel) alone is enough to get past edgeguarding, unless Peach uses dair, a multihit move that will last longer than a WAC use, and also sends Olimar upwards- where recovering is easy. The thing we have to worry about are the turnips. Turnip pressure makes it more difficult to time consecutive whistles. Olimar can whistle consecutively to avoid the knockback from a turnip and another attack from Peach, but it's rather difficult.

When recovering from below (which shouldn't happen as often because we all know how easy it is to save a second jump and use correct DI), Olimar has it much worse. He can rely on the whistle to get past attacks, (assuming the Olimar has excellent whistle use) but he still has to worry about being edgehogged. That's where, as Asob tried to explain, we can use purple pikmin/attacks to help pressure you off of the edge. If your invincibility frames wear off after our attacks, then thats when we'll get edgehogged. (unless you don't time the roll back onstage correctly, which can be difficult sometimes) If you decide to try and attack Olimar instead of edgehog, you're risking getting spiked by the tether after a WAC.

I'm not saying Olimar's recovery isn't really bad, but it's more difficult than "just hit him."

...and I hate that vegetable. It makes weird faces at you while you just before you die.

Edit: peach has a very solid advantage on Olimar. At least 65-35. 70-30 sounds right.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

+1 post count

When are we moving onto our next matchup? And who shall it be?

 

[Mmac]

Yes...... Who?

>_>

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I personally think Toon Link, Pikachu or IC's (there isn't a right lot to say apart from "Don't get grabbed" )

Let's leave Yoshi until last imo

10evillaughs

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Yoshi is actually kind of a tough matchup, I would say it's even or only slightly in Peach's favor personally!!

Next will be Pit. I'll updatesies tomorrow. For Olimar Peach..looks like it concludes as 70-30.

 

[Praxis]

I should be able to pull videos of me MMing Sagemoon's Pit off of Cazcom's laptop on Saturday.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I dont have time to do an olimar summary now but i will later, for now lets go with pit

 

[cj.Shark]

pit has fast low lag short range attacks. this helps him live to high percentages as It is very easy to stop peaches main killing move the f-air. i dont know much about this matchup other than the fact that Pit will rarely go for the edgeguard. 99% of the time i will simple shoot arrows and rack up more damage because peach a large target but hard edgeguard. My friend tells me the move he fears the most is my glide attack because peach can do little to outprioritze it and Its easy to cancel.

 

[Morrigan]

Glide attack...can't you like...see it coming a mile away and Toad it? I always do that (or maybe I'm playing a mediocre Pit).

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well, I suppose I can help out a bit but I dont have much Peach experience, compared to many other common chars.

As a Pit, I'm aware that Pit does have poor melee range. I believe that Peach's F-air is very dangerous, with range, same goes for B-air.
Peach's combos are troubling, and the floating mindgames can mess us up with us missing our moves, like U-smash then get hit with your D-airs and combos.

When a Pit tries to recover, Vegetables and F-airs, and even B-airs are threatening. Vegetables, again, as a Pit, Trying to reflect vegetables (or any reflector for that matter) is a bad idea, maybe unless the Peach was Glideshifting towards a Pit where Peach might actually get hit.
Peach's F-air can stop Pit and his gliding when timed right, not sure about B-air, though it is possible.

*Concerned* I noticed that Pit has problems with many characters' B-airs, like Wolf's, Dedede's, DK's, Kirby's, etc. This hurts us so much...

Pit, however, can also screw up Peach's recovery with arrows, nothing special here.

Your combos with the D-airs to N-airs/U-airs, as well as F-airs, B-airs, andGlideshifting with Vegetables are those you should be using, though I feel bad for the other Pits for helping Peach players out, at least Peach isn't as much threatening as Metaknight.

I hope I'm right about my info. Peach scares me, just like other floaty characters, and I'm admitting this. And if I should go against any of you, Please don't grab me! (Nervous upon getting grabbed, unless being held without harm)

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I don't think I'm alone when I say that I HATE fighting Pit.

He's got a sword, 2 reflectors, a more spammable projectile, better recovery...what isn't there to dislike about him?

Arrows are a giant pain but they can be outprioritzed by most of Peach's attacks. I find Nair is an excellent move to use when trying to block them out when Floating (unfortuently it has rather large ending lag in the air).

Dairs/Turnips work reasonably well in this match. For goodness sake though, never ever EVER throw a Turnip/use Toad against his Side B "Hyayayaaa!". It reflects things and it sucks so hard to get hit by it. If you do get hit by Pit's Side B, I suggest DI'ing either behind him or out of it. Be ready to punish. F Smash isn't very good because when Pit puts his swords away after finishing Side B, you get blown back very slightly. My favourite for when I DI away from him is to Peach Bomber him when he's finished.

F Tilt is a brilliant move if Pit is trying to use continued spaced Fairs on you. Seriously, I love this move.

I very much dislike using Toad in this match. I find it doesn't work very well at all. There are much better ways to punish him.

GIMP HIS UP + B! If you hit him with that then he's toast. You're going to have predict where he'll go though otherwise you'll completely miss him. If he tries to get his Fair in, get yours in first (you could try Toad I guess but...meh)

I don't think I could rate this atm, I really need more experience vs other Pits

 

[hotgarbage]

This matchup is the pits.

 

[Praxis]

I've got a bit of Pit experience...there's no Pits with me in Eastern WA, but there's FIVE of them in western WA (Sagemoon, Donchan, Hati, someone else, and I think Fear secondaries Pit now).

First thing I discovered was that Pit has no approaches on Peach. A defensive playstyle works really well. Stand under a platform to protect yourself from arrow range and shield and let him come to you, then **** him with retreating fairs or tilts.

If the Pit is smart and patient, pressure him. You can approach with dairs- they block his arrows. Just don't get predictable (drop to the ground before you reach him perhaps).

Peach's dair combos **** Pit pretty bad, and jab grabs are very effective. When you land grabs on Pit, mash A so that you can refresh your moves by kicking him, so your Fair remains an effective kill move- you'll use it a lot on Pit.

Bait Pit a lot. Throw turnips, act like you're going to drop in and fair and then jump backwards. Pit's use Fsmash defensively quite a lot (at least Sagemoon does) because of its wide hitbox, but it kind of pins them down.

Don't glide toss into their face because of the reflector- throw the turnips from overhead and drop and punish if they reflect it.

Every time they shield a fair you should jab once then dash grab. Every single time. Pit's grab isn't fast enough to grab you in the few frames available to.

Turnips gimp Pit's recovery offstage, and he combos with Dair really well. I'm pretty sure Peach has the advantage in this matchup.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Imo, Praxis hit this match nail on the head with a huge mallet.

I've played a few Pit's some more and I've found that baiting them/letting them approach is by far the easiest way to win.

Never stray too far because Pit can try to fill you with arrows. Instead, keep enough distance so you can punish him if he tries to use arrows on you but so you can counter what he throws out you

What was once my worst match up is now becoming not so bad ^^

 

[deepseadiva]

My friend tells me the move he fears the most is my glide attack because peach can do little to outprioritze it and Its easy to cancel.

What else does Peach have against the glide besides Toad?

Don't tell me nothing.

 

[PrepareYourself]

What else does Peach have against the glide besides Toad?

Don't tell me nothing.

Airdodge? Utilt?