Peach vs. Donkey Kong

[¿Qué?]

Peach vs. Donkey Kong

Peach's Strengths:
Ability to camp well(Glide Toss/ Bone Walk/ Free Pull)~
Float Mechanics(Quick Entry and Auto Canceling Aerials on the ground)~
Ability to Combo String others for great damage input~
Outstanding Shield Pressure Game~
Turnips/Stitch Face/ Beam Sword/ Mr. Saturn/ Bomb-omb~



Peach's Weaknesses:
Worst Air-dodge in the game~
Can lose stocks early~
Can be shut down for a while if out ranged~


Donkey Kong's Strengths:
Great Power and Deceptively Quick~
Good Range on Bair
Good Range on Ftilt
Ground Pound for Defeating ground game~
Can kill at very early percents~
Three offstage spike options~
Invincible UpB~
Amazing Platform Game~
Amazing Momentum Canceling Ability for longer lasting stocks~
Lagless UpB landing~
Great Grab Game~
Outstanding Horizontal Recovery~

Donkey Kong's Weaknesses:
Small shield and can easily be pressured when in close range~
Harder for Donkey Kong when he's forced to take the ledge above 100%~
Can easily be punished if moves don't land~
Recovery can be harshly punished due to landing lag~
Horrible Vertical Recovery~
Not as threatening on a stage with no platforms~


Note: These Strengths and Weaknesses do not pertain to the MU directly, but are more based on what the characters are good at and what their flaws are.



UNDERGOING MOVE ANALYSIS. SHOULD BE DONE SOON.(Lol you know... Because I main both..)

 

[Nicole]

I'll start.

I've played all the good DK's except for Ook and Cyphus at one point or another. I think this MU is in our favor a little, but only because of one thing that we have on him: Usmashing his bair.

Think of DK as DDD with 2 jumps. Man, we'd be usmashing the **** out of DDD if we knew when he was gonna land. With DK, we know when he's going to land. He has 2 jumps. After the 2nd one, when he throws out a bair, usmash him. His foot is a hurtbox. Without usmash, I'd rate this matchup as not quite 4:6, but not quite 45:55 in his favor, but with it I think it shifts to our favor a bit, maybe 55:45.

I had not found this out until after I played Cable at Apex and Will at MLG and Apex. I wish I had known when I was playing against them in pools/MM. However, I know now and I really think we have a winnable matchup with DK.

Without it, you are racking him and combo-ing him until forever, but you can't kill him. You **** up once and he kills you at 80 - 100%. He spikes you through umbrella and you die super early. He cargo throw stage spikes you and you die at 50%. You go to dash attack him and get donkey punched, taking 40ish damage and probably dying. This is not something where you guys should think, "Wow, Nicole's a tard, she runs into stuff." DK has NO KILLING PROBLEMS. Even his bair wil kill you around 130, as long as you're not flying across the whole stage. And let's not even mention his Utilt...floating above him? LOL, ur dead.

He is a fast DDD with kill moves that hit. you better be careful with your turnip pulls because he will run up to you (because he can) and grab you. That grab could lead to a stage spike. Watch where you're floating - he has a plethora of options in the air INCLUDING donkey punch & side b. He only needs a few hits to get you into kill percent, where you need many many more. His bair walls our float approaches fairly effectively. His down b has ******** range.

Yeah, his shield sucks, he can be shield-pressure ***** by us, our turnips force him to approach and our fair outranges most everything he's got in the air, and dsmash shieldpokes him nearly every time. However, without that reliable usmash kill (which we thankfully have), we are hardpressed to kill him before he kills us. Is DK going to be throwing out bairs? Yes. Always yes. Especially against Peach, who is in the air, just sitting there, so often.

DK is a really good character that is kept down by one or two abysmal matchups. It's rare to fight a good DK so I think people underestimate him often. This matchup is fun, but it is definitely one that takes alot of focus.

 

[Neon9837]

Guess I'll start with the basics, seems like a pretty even matchup to me.

DK's pros
-significantly outranges her in the air and on the ground
-fully charged punch/dsmash kill at 90%
-can easily survie to 150+ on each stock
-utilt beats dair and leads into combos

Peach's Pros
-dair lead into a ton of different combo options and is safe on shield if follwed by nair.
-turnips limit his approaches fairly well
-jab/grab mixups up work well up close
-stutter step fsmash works well for killing.

I definitly need some offline experience for this matchup, all of these assertions are based off of my online matches with kyon and illmatic.

 

[z00ted]

Wow, I did not know about that b-air, up smash thing, thanks Nicole.

I have never played a good Donkey Kong offline, but I used to love the matchup online, until my Peach got super terrible on wifi.

It's even in my opinion, only because of turnips. If we didn't have them it would be 40:60, 45:55ish.

Hey Neon! Hope to meet you at MLG Dallas and play your Donkey Kong.

 

[D0N]

I'll start.

I've played all the good DK's except for Ook and Cyphus at one point or another.

Cuz you know about ALL the Dks right?

 

[z00ted]

The

CALLOUT

(**** we got a streak of drama in matchup threads now)

 

[Neon9837]

Wow, I did not know about that b-air, up smash thing, thanks Nicole.

I have never played a good Donkey Kong offline, but I used to love the matchup online, until my Peach got super terrible on wifi.

It's even in my opinion, only because of turnips. If we didn't have them it would be 40:60, 45:55ish.

Hey Neon! Hope to meet you at MLG Dallas and play your Donkey Kong.

I'm still really hoping I can go, I will know by tomorrow. Dk vs peach is too weird online for me to make any legitmate assertions. The only reason I think it might be in dk's favor is because of ko percents and counter-pick options. Peach dies at 90 from a full charged punch which has planty of range and SA and donkey kong wont die till at least 150+ from a stale fair or up-smash.

Dk is greatly aided by his counter-picking ability, there are no stages that significantly help peach, but plenty that help dk. He can set up an infinite on any stage with a wall with a cargo>dthrow toss>dtilt. This works wonders on stages like delfino, ps1, RC, picto and even frigate. Japes is probably the worst for peach though because dk lives much longer on that stage with up-b brake (which is hard to punish because of the water) I might test this later, but im guessing stale up-smash or fair woulndt kill till at least 200%. YI is a decent cp for dk against peach, the platform limits his approaches against her but he has more options from the edge.

 

[z00ted]

dude....

find out fast, passes may have already sold out.

Yeah, but no Peach (that is decent) should be dying at 90%, it's really rare.

 

[Eddie G]

I've beaten every notable DK I've ever come across, including Will (in a friendly though, to be fair to him) and Ripple. This matchup is dead even.

I will elaborate when I have more time.

 

[D0N]

The

CALLOUT

(**** we got a streak of drama in matchup threads now)

lol I was just pointing out what I thought was a impertinent statement and saw the perfect smiley face for the situation. No drama

 

[Neon9837]

dude....

find out fast, passes may have already sold out.

Yeah, but no Peach (that is decent) should be dying at 90%, it's really rare.

Already bought my pass, just waiting for my boss's ok.

Maybe 100 would be a more reasonalbe percent. I cant see peach surviving the punch or any smash attacks past 100 though.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I didn't know we could usmash his bair ether. I just shutter step fsmash it. New and good info to know. uair is like stupid good in this mu. especially with platforms

 

[z00ted]

Already bought my pass, just waiting for my boss's ok.

Maybe 100 would be a more reasonalbe percent. I cant see peach surviving the punch or any smash attacks past 100 though.

of course it will kill.

But a good Peach won't be getting hit by smashes, rather uair, tilts, or bairs.

Come to HOBOs, homie.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

of course it will kill.

But a good Peach won't be getting hit by smashes, rather uair, tilts, or bairs.

Come to HOBOs, homie.

Don't make it sound like its impossible for a DK to read a player

 

[z00ted]

Lol, I'm not saying it's imposibble for DKs to read a player at all, don't get me wrong.

I'm just saying that more of the time a Peach should be dying to quicker attacks previously stated.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Lol, I'm not saying it's imposibble for DKs to read a player at all, don't get me wrong.

I'm just saying that more of the time a Peach should be dying to quicker attacks previously stated.

Yes yes but when you say Peach in my eyes it makes you look like she is special from getting hit with it. His Down smash isn't slow ether last i checked.

I say even or Dk favor. cause of kill power.

 

[z00ted]

Yeah, I guess but I didn't mean specifically our character lol.

 

[Neon9837]

of course it will kill.

But a good Peach won't be getting hit by smashes, rather uair, tilts, or bairs.

Come to HOBOs, homie.

Against peach I usually kill with a fully charged punch or dsmash which both have incredible range and come out quickly. Bair offstage works pretty well also.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Yeah, I guess but I didn't mean specifically our character lol.

lol no worries its all good. I know what your talking about

 

[Neon9837]

Yes yes but when you say Peach in my eyes it makes you look like she is special from getting hit with it. His Down smash isn't slow ether last i checked.

I say even or Dk favor. cause of kill power.

I still think everyone's forgetting Dk's incredible counter pick options. What stages does peach have against dk? I'd say its only even on fd and frigate, almost every other stage gives dk an advantage in some form or another.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I still think everyone's forgetting Dk's incredible counter pick options. What stages does peach have against dk? I'd say its only even on fd and frigate, almost every other stage gives dk an advantage in some form or another.

Peach is good on alot of stages that have platforms. Most People dont even know what to counter pick against Peach. Most other stages have platforms which makes uair, utilt,usmash, and air dodge reads more easier since dk is fat. Something else I dont see Peach's doing or talking about is when dk is at low percent and uses his jump already side tilt reads over and over again is like sex XD

 

[Razmakazi]

i think nicole's info is right but that the mu is slightly in our favor b/c we can camp him and combo him really well. like if you wanna be ballsy you can even usmash his hand/arm of his donkey punch if he does it in the air. you have to already be under it for it to work though otherwise the hurtbox will come out and **** you.

anyway we can also really bring the pain in regards to edgeguarding dk. we can keep bairing his recovery with decent timing. it's not very hard at all. also when we're on the ledge we should probably be very gay. it's not worth rushing it and getting clapped at 70 by a smash.

ah and it's important to note that if he's mindgaming and trying to be tricking around your shield watch out for side b. do not just hold shield when dk is in the air. make it a point to play on reaction and powershield. this way your shield doesn't break if you have to shield a side b. also if he's above and around you a nair or any aerial will cover all of his options except for airdodge. if he does airdodge then i just hope you spaced and landed outside of his dsmash range haha.

well there's my 2 centz at least.

 

[z00ted]

Something else I dont see Peach's doing or talking about is when dk is at low percent and uses his jump already side tilt reads over and over again is like sex XD

Ooo, great point, I do this all the time

 

[Neon9837]

i think nicole's info is right but that the mu is slightly in our favor b/c we can camp him and combo him really well. like if you wanna be ballsy you can even usmash his hand/arm of his donkey punch if he does it in the air. you have to already be under it for it to work though otherwise the hurtbox will come out and **** you.

anyway we can also really bring the pain in regards to edgeguarding dk. we can keep bairing his recovery with decent timing. it's not very hard at all. also when we're on the ledge we should probably be very gay. it's not worth rushing it and getting clapped at 70 by a smash.

ah and it's important to note that if he's mindgaming and trying to be tricking around your shield watch out for side b. do not just hold shield when dk is in the air. make it a point to play on reaction and powershield. this way your shield doesn't break if you have to shield a side b. also if he's above and around you a nair or any aerial will cover all of his options except for airdodge. if he does airdodge then i just hope you spaced and landed outside of his dsmash range haha.

well there's my 2 centz at least.

Peach really doent have that many options in edgeguarding him. He can stall his return with side-b which allows him to bair if he needs to, and he can stall his up-b which has lots of priority.

Everyone know peach can combo dk very well, but dk can combo as well.
His bairs can form a WOP, comboing into each other up to 3 times. U-tilt also combos into itself and sets up for bair or uair. D-tilt can usually be followed by down-b as well.

One thing I forgot to mention was the effectiveness of his grounded up-b.
It has SA at the beginning which beats her dair, it is also a great combo finisher after using u-tilt .

 

[¿Qué?]

I'm going to have to agree with KBizzle on this one.

I also say this MU is dead even 50/50.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I still think everyone's forgetting Dk's incredible counter pick options. What stages does peach have against dk? I'd say its only even on fd and frigate, almost every other stage gives dk an advantage in some form or another.

I don'tthink so. I don'tthink you ever fought a Peach with a godly platform game dude. And big or heavy character that fights a Peach like that on platforms is asking for it. You are better off on FD.A stage with no patforms. You can bait air dodges and then punish since our airdodge is garbage. And it screws up our evasion.

I hate Lylat. But I use that stage as a counterpick on DK, and no DK has beaten me there. I have beaten will twice in tourny on that stage. Same with cable. Peach platform game ***** characters like DK. So actually we have more counterpick stages than you doin this match up.

As for this match up, it is even. If DKwants to bair. Run into it with shield and then Nair out of it. DK can't to anything about it. If he is spacing the move, you don't have to test it at, just leave him alone.or go in with toadif you slick. But mostly leave him be. I see so many trying to test that move and hit him so bad with Fair. A 16 frame move against his.....what 5frame?

He wants to space his Ftilts? FULL HOP dairs on his ***. You evade the move and hit him at the same time.

You have to play hit and run on DK. You don't want to stay inside him for too long.Caise one mistake can equal one stock. DK can hit you hard. Sohitand run seriously decreases these chances. Also good turnipgame with mixed pressure, DKcan't do anything. And he would get shield stabbed later on.

DK is a lil hard to edgeguard sometimes eh? On his up-B there is 2 things you can do. DK has 2open spots. One is on the top and the other is on the bottom ofthe Up-B. Fall on top of DK with an Nair. Move is not that great at killing anyway. So no need to worry about killmoves being stale (If you are that stratigic that is) Also drop on him to a bair.

The other way is float under the stage a lil. Get at the right postition depending on where he is recoverying. And Clap his legs with a Fair. if you time this right you can hit him back out untouched.

If you seem him aiming to land on stage, go to him and toad the up-B.

Now if he is just recoverying high. Turnip juggle him.He is gonna have a hard time coming back,or taking so much damage before touching the floor. If you are getting baired, PULL AWAY AND DON'T TRY TO HIT HIM. You will be taking more damage then you just be. And Yes you will get awayfrom his Bair change.just pull away. or smash DI each of his Bairs. he is really not suppose to keep that chain up.

The only thing thats a pain in this match up is killing him (if you too greedy and aggressive) And he hits hard when you get damage.You can be dieing really early. So you need to learn good evasion. And stages with platform help with that.

Your ground game is better that his. DK just really have tilts tospace and then some D-B's if you too close and wanna stay in shield for long. if he is spacing tilts, Glide toss inbetween into a ground floated Nair. And be quick about it.

DK approach is really with Bairs. And I would also guess walking space tilts. Anything else he has, Peach is not having that. I told you what to do about his bair and tilts.

Being above DK alot is something you don'twanna be doing. Uptilts and uairs and killing all that typical Peach air game stuff. Same with Bair since you are slow wether in the air or floating. Then of course his Bair will be ****** you.

 

[Razmakazi]

Peach really doent have that many options in edgeguarding him. He can stall his return with side-b which allows him to bair if he needs to, and he can stall his up-b which has lots of priority.

Everyone know peach can combo dk very well, but dk can combo as well.
His bairs can form a WOP, comboing into each other up to 3 times. U-tilt also combos into itself and sets up for bair or uair. D-tilt can usually be followed by down-b as well.

One thing I forgot to mention was the effectiveness of his grounded up-b.
It has SA at the beginning which beats her dair, it is also a great combo finisher after using u-tilt .

1. The peach player can clearly see that slow slow side b stall. It's a decent mix-up but just thiiiink about it. It's slow and you can't expect Peach to get faked out by that more than once.

Also, Peach's bair has more priority than your up b. With good timing I take no damage or at most 2 damage while the DK takes about 14.

2. As for DK combo'ing Peach that's not completely true. He can bring the hurt if she doesn't have a double jump left but bair doesn't have godly hitstun. Peach can nair/uair out of bair chains or she can just time an airdodge on the 2nd bair. This cooould lead to a frame trap on Peach though but Peach definitely has options again DK combos.

Same w/ getting hit by utilt. Peach can get away w/ just DI and her jump, her disjointed aerials, etc. But yeah...getting hit by utilt sucks though and a smart DK will most likely land at least one follow-up if you land it at a low enough percent.

3. Grounded up-b can work but sometimes it's just not a good idea vs Peach. Her dair should be spaced higher against DK anyway and the up b won't reach her hurtbox at all. Also even if you do hit Peach she can easily DI up and back air/nair. I've done it hundreds of times.

The thought of utilt to up b is pretty sexy though.

 

[Ripple]

I survived til 235% against King Beef in our set

 

[¿Qué?]

I survived til 235% against King Beef in our set

You don't even use Donkey Kong.



Pick him up again, or be slayin'.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I am the best Peach at this matchup

And I will prove it

Get @ me

 

[Dark.Pch]

I am the best Peach at this matchup

And I will prove it

Get @ me

This is coming from a dude who's peach was getting whopped by cable.

 

[¿Qué?]

This is coming from a dude who's peach was getting whopped by cable.

At the time he was bad at the MU?

He's pretty good at it now.. He's worked on it.

 

[Punishment Divine]

this is coming from a dude who's peach was getting whopped by cable.

eyo

i'm mad good at it now

why you gotta come @ me like that dark pch

like, my feelings are hurt

 

[¿Qué?]

eyo

i'm mad good at it now

why you gotta come @ me like that dark pch

like, my feelings are hurt

Shut up. You are loved now.

No more trollin' or trash talkin' on my MU thread or I'll have you all castrated.


You are allowed to do this as long as you have a piece of MU advice attached to it.

 

[Deleted member]

i agree that its dead even. peach wins overall but DK's uptilt is annoying and his CPs are way better.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I just wait for DK to bair and then hit him with my bair. floating is bad in this matchup and just never lose patience. I stale fair sometimes but other times i don't so i guess you can do either. learn how to bonewalk cause it helps you camp him harder and don't glidetoss every turnip just throw them. it's okay if he's at 200+ just don't let him get in lol it's also very good to go out to hit DK with float dairs/nairs/fairs when he's recovering. trap DK at the ledge cause he's bad there.

and nicole i disagree no DK bairs just for the sake of bairing if they know how to play peach because peach gets walled pretty hard by tilts to they only bair if they predict a float.

wow i just helped a character board lmfaooo

also it's not even DK def wins it if only by a little he just bans FD

 

[Razmakazi]

I just wait for DK to bair and then hit him with my bair. floating is bad in this matchup and just never lose patience. I stale fair sometimes but other times i don't so i guess you can do either. learn how to bonewalk cause it helps you camp him harder and don't glidetoss every turnip just throw them. it's okay if he's at 200+ just don't let him get in lol it's also very good to go out to hit DK with float dairs/nairs/fairs when he's recovering. trap DK at the ledge cause he's bad there.

and nicole i disagree no DK bairs just for the sake of bairing if they know how to play peach because peach gets walled pretty hard by tilts to they only bair if they predict a float.

wow i just helped a character board lmfaooo

also it's not even DK def wins it if only by a little he just bans FD

the only thing i disagree with is that floating is bad. peach can def use it to bait DK's bair but she just can't approach with it at all.

i disagree about dk's adv if he bans FD but idc mu ratio isn't important anyway.

good post though.

 

[DKwill]

I survived til 235% against King Beef in our set

I survived until 250+% on every single one of my stocks in my MM with Nicole at Apex 2010 =P

 

[deepseadiva]

He cargo throw stage spikes you and you die at 50%.

I thought this didn't work anymore after people found out holding up on the control stick broke you out instantly once he got off-stage.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I thought this didn't work anymore after people found out holding up on the control stick broke you out instantly once he got off-stage.

not true. no DK CSS's anyways unless it's to really catch you off guard. Just tech it anyways though seriously wtf you just press R lmao

@ person who quoted me floating is ok for that but the amount of time peach is in the air is no longer a mystery like it was in 08 i constantly get peach's on their landings because I know they can't float anymore. It's just a very dangerous spot for you to be in when not in a situation in your favor. When in neutral or DK adv position I wouldnt float