Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

[Dark.Pch]

I'm just gonna pic a character then. We will start with Luigi.

 

[Tundra]

^Great choice. I personally struggle quite a bit against skilled Luigi players. He's combo game is just too good and he has so many options.

I have some questions :
1) What is the best way to avoid his combos?
2) How do you approach Luigi? (I really hate thos fireballs)
3) Is it easier to KO him horizontally or vertically? What options does he have?

 

[MJN Pilot]

^Great choice. I personally struggle quite a bit against skilled Luigi players. He's combo game is just too good and he has so many options.

I have some questions :
1) What is the best way to avoid his combos?
2) How do you approach Luigi? (I really hate thos fireballs)
3) Is it easier to KO him horizontally or vertically? What options does he have?

Getting grabbed by Luigi is pretty damning. You can DI his grab combos, but it's easier for him to mix it up that it is for you to DI.
I would avoid getting grabbed as much as possible. If he's aggressive, I like to have a turnip in hand because it can stop him in his tracks a bit. The good news is that a lot of his power is set in his grab game. So if you can manage to avoid that, you're in a good place.

Approaching is tricky, but not impossible. You need to powershield the fireballs. If he get's one of them, he may very well get a free grab. However if you can try and out space him, he has pretty poor range (don't quote me on that, I'm not 100% sure how large it is compared to the rest of the cast).

Luigi's recovery is weird. He can go crazy high if you have good mashing skills, but else wise it's quite meh. I find a lot of Luigi's recover low, saving their jump until the last second. Without his second jump, he's kinda dead in the water, which is one thing we can do really well, since if they're not playing optimally, you can turnip and he's doomed. This is why Z-Dropping a turnip can be great. So I always try and kill Luigi of the side, since his recovery can be very easily gimped by Peach.

 

[J-Prep]

Float Dair pressure seems free because Luigi has no traction, so poking at his shield usually puts him in a spot where you cannot be punished. When you do manage to get something started on him beware mash Nair as most Luigi's think it's a get out of jail free card.

I've tried ground float Nair in response to his fireballs, it'll clash but seems pointless as Luigi will more than likely already be in another spot plotting on you. I don't really have an answer for them =\

How do we deal with tornado? And what stages do you guys prefer v Luigi?

 

[MJN Pilot]

The fireballs are evil! I would argue one of the best projectiles in the game, but I digress.

I've often found myself jumping over them, but that's not great because Luigi can just punish that. I guess it's all about mixups on avoiding them.

The tornado is a true combo out of downthrow at kill %'s which is rediclous! I am 99% sure you can't DI it. So we just have to suck it up and take it I guess. I honestly can't think of a way to deal with it since the turnip doesn't stop it or anything.

Stage choices, I would like to take him somewhere I can survive for longer, since he doesn't struggle with killing that much. I don't know the blast zone data for the stages honestly. I have searched and searched, but got nothing.

 

[adlp]

with the tornado

if he's got you airborne, SDI down/down away

If he's got you grounded, SDI up/up away

 

[J-Prep]

with the tornado

if he's got you airborne, SDI down/down away

If he's got you grounded, SDI up/up away

This. Gotten me out of a lot of sticky situations at high %.

Turnips stop him if you hit him on the head. Any other hotbox its just another clash. =\

 

[Pippu]

2) How do you approach Luigi? (I really hate thos fireballs)
3) Is it easier to KO him horizontally or vertically? What options does he have?

Peach doesn't have a problem with his fireballs. Your dair and fair will beat them allowing you to easily get in closer. A good suggestion would be dair fireballs until your close enough once he shields fast fall out of float and get a free grab. Turrnips are extremely good at approaching Luigi too, and most of the time it will put him into a defensive position, so hold it as long as you can and only throw it when you need to. Luigi can't do much to counter turnips. If you see the Luigi approaching with a tornado SHIELD THAT. It has a lot of ending lag. Punish it how you see fit

Luigi is really good at making it back on stage, him keeping you off shouldn't be much of a problem since you're peach. Don't challenge his down b offstage ever. You wont usually win. If you for a vertical kill Luigi has quite a few options to get on stage. Vertical kills are harder to achieve as peach since uair has a really weird hit-box and you have to be really careful using usmash.

 

[wedl!!]

wins neutral pretty hard because she doesn't care that much about fireballs and lacks an answer to float dair pressure

the best way to kill is edgeguarding, and is pretty easy to edgeguard if you avoid challenging tornado. zdrop turnips near the edge

stages idk, ideally fd is good because of the previously mentioned easy neutral plus it's a bit harder for him to kill you off the top because of no platforrms

 

[MJN Pilot]

It may just be me, but I have an issue in the neutral because while yeah, we beat the fireball, but he has a lot more than just that. Because we can often be forced into committing to a dair when he uses the fireballs, he can punish that with relative ease if he's just patient. I mean, yeah it's a very small window, but that's what the luigi is gonna be looking for.

with the tornado, if he's got you airborne, SDI down/down away

This is amazing! Thank you!

 

[Lil Puddin]

Luigi has easier kill setups against Peach and whiffing into Luigi is instant death. Which is easy to accidentally do against Luigis adamant about camping.

Peach has better neutral and there are plenty gimp opportunities with turnips and aerials. She won't get many chances to land kill hits outside whiffed tornado on the ground or UpB. Funnily enough parasol is an effective kill move towards the top and is not easy to avoid if they're trying to fastfall a Nair/other aerial.

IMO it's all about neutral. Luigi's aerials are faster and easier to throw out/stall with. You need to get him from below or with the tip of Fair midair. On the ground, he will stop you with fireballs directly or use them to bait you into shielding or tossing your essential neutral tool: da turnip. But your Dair or Fair is effective against grounded Luigis. You have to force him to commit to something. Keep tossing him off stage since that stops his only zoning tool from flying at you every second. His ledge game is easy for Peach to combat with Dtilt, turnips, toad, Fsmash(golfclub is best), ground level Fair, hover Dair if he stalls... Luigi loses everything once he's off the stage, except tornado which beats Peach most of the time.

 

[Pippu]

with the tornado

if he's got you airborne, SDI down/down away

If he's got you grounded, SDI up/up away

I thought smash di was no longer a thing in smash 4

 

[adlp]

I thought smash di was no longer a thing in smash 4

it's just neutered to all hell

 

[ChkMte]

I understand this is Luigi's time, but I'm curious about thoughts on the Fox matchup. What can Peach do to effectively beat out Fox? Approaching on the ground is difficult due to Fox's faster attacks, and his upsmash kills us pretty early. His aerials are fast, but we can combo him pretty darn well with a set up, so what is best way to do so?

Also, does anyone know if her D-Air beats his U-Air? I hate how easily that move kills us.

 

[Macchiato]

Luigi

So Peach is gonna easily dair the fire balls and cancel it out. Yes, Luigi has a great combo game but Peach can float helping her not get grabbed and she can still combo him. Luigi also has no way to get rid of dair pressure. Due to Jab coming on on frame 2 it can stop many of his jab to grab attempts. Peach bomber can punish him Midrange and cover ledge options. Fair kills him early, Fsmash all kill him, Usmash does too. Luigi can kill us as early, I wouldn't worry about Tornado since we can just DI down. We can edgeguard him pretty well, Fair stops Missile, Dair can stop SJP or you can just throw turnips. I think Peach has a moderate advantage.

 

[Meru.]

Is it true Peach can get out of his Down B? I have tried to tap down repeatedly on both the control and C-stick but my success rate is 0.

 

[adlp]

tap down initially but you wiggle the stick while holding down so it registers multiple "down" inputs. like a quarter circle motion. dont worry about the c stick for sdi in smash 4 because it doesnt do anything

 

[Macchiato]

Is it true Peach can get out of his Down B? I have tried to tap down repeatedly on both the control and C-stick but my success rate is 0.

Every floaty can

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'm a bit puzzled that nobodies mentioned Luigi's Up Smash yet - outside of Fireballs it's easily his biggest threat to Peach. Up Smash OoS (Out of Shield) will cripple any Dair pressure attempts (I thoroughly disagree with those of you who are saying you can just Dair Luigi all day long) and beat out or trade hits with Fair.

I have played some very good Luigi's in Smash 4 and this MU is extremely tough for Peach, mainly due to Up Smash and Fireballs. Fireballs in particular are a huge nuisance because even if you perfect shield them/cancel them out with an attack, you then have to worry about whatever Luigi is going to follow up with and if you guess incorrectly, chances are you're going to eat an aerial or get grabbed and combo'd into oblivion. They also massively hamper approaches and force you out of Float. If Luigi throws a Fireball too close you can perfect shield and follow up with a Dash Attack/Grab but the cooldown for Fireballs is really very low so only go for it if you're sure (otherwise you leave yourself wide open for a punish). If Luigi is insistent on spamming Fireballs then take that as an opportunity to pull up a Turnip to help you approach.

As I mentioned earlier, Up Smash is exceptionally dangerous - I'm not sure if it has invincibility frames like Mario's but it will cut through Peach's aerials and it is especially nasty OoS due to how fast and how hard it hits. Absolutely be on the look out for this because it can really screw you up.

Other things to watch out for...his Bair has huge range and his Nair is an excellent combo breaker. Down Smash has good range and high knockback. His Tornado is not only a strong kill move at higher percents (kind of like our Parasol) but allows him to make surprise approaches (so bear that in mind if you run off to pull a Turnip). And of course watch for Luigi Missile/Shoryuken bull****.


I try and play this MU as defensively as possible with a healthy dosage of Turnips to help cover my approach/punish game, along with some well spaced Bairs/Fairs and tilts/F Smashes. Luigi's air speed is quite slow so you can challenge him with your aerials (watch out for Up Smash though!) and also with well spaced F Tilts/D Tilts/F Smashes. This is definitely one of Peach's hardest match ups and it's times like these where I really, REALLY wish she still had her lagless Fair and Glide Tossing...

 

[Meru.]

tap down initially but you wiggle the stick while holding down so it registers multiple "down" inputs. like a quarter circle motion. dont worry about the c stick for sdi in smash 4 because it doesnt do anything

Every floaty can

So I have to press something like down, down-left/right, down down-left/right, right? I usually go pretty even with Luigi's but grab-happy Luigi can stuff me since they can kill at me at like 80% with Dthrow Down B. I figured there must be something I am doing wrong here.

 

[Macchiato]

So I have to press something like down, down-left/right, down down-left/right, right? I usually go pretty even with Luigi's but grab-happy Luigi can stuff me since they can kill at me at like 80% with Dthrow Down B. I figured there must be something I am doing wrong here.

This video might help. It talks about his options and what the opponent can so to escape his combos and how to fall out of the tornado.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Peach users out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Peach. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Peach match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/404696/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[J-Prep]

Just an idea, shouldn't the matchups already in the first post be re evaluated since patch updates removed TLC?

 

[Dark.Pch]

Just an idea, shouldn't the matchups already in the first post be re evaluated since patch updates removed TLC?

Im gonna be getting to that. 2morrow I'm cleaning up that whole post. As well as put my say on luigi and add the other match ups in there that we talked about already.

So whar other characters you guys wanna talk about next?

 

[J-Prep]

Im gonna be getting to that. 2morrow I'm cleaning up that whole post. As well as put my say on luigi and add the other match ups in there that we talked about already.

So whar other characters you guys wanna talk about next?

Fantastic! Moving forward I vote Fox or Falcon. They're both really popular and a pain IMO.

 

[Tundra]

^Agreed.

A Mario discussion would be nice as well though.

 

[adlp]

i vote mario or falcon

 

[Macchiato]

Im gonna be getting to that. 2morrow I'm cleaning up that whole post. As well as put my say on luigi and add the other match ups in there that we talked about already.

So whar other characters you guys wanna talk about next?

Jiggz oh I hate that MU.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I find that in the luigi match up you need to get just outside his range to keep from danger. I try to stay away from floating a lot as if you get hit, then its a free grab for luigi. As for dair i think its best to space it away from him so you have a chance to escape if he is up smash happy.

By the way since the rosalina section is analyzing the peach vs rosalina match up. We could probably get some extra information from them and vice versa.

 

[marc0polo]

Fantastic! Moving forward I vote Fox or Falcon. They're both really popular and a pain IMO.

+1 to fox.
Also sheik is quite a difficult MU for me.

 

[J-Prep]

+1 to fox.
Also sheik is quite a difficult MU for me.

Sheik is covered in OP

 

[Pippu]

I'm going to +1 shulk. Characters with disjoints give peach problems, and shulk's disjoints have stupid range

 

[Dark.Pch]

Im gonna set it to Falcon.

 

[J-Prep]

So let's get to yappin'!

I feel much like the Luigi matchup, the name of the game here is don't get grabbed. IMO most generic falcons are looking for dthrow > ****. Peach is like a sitting duck in the air and Dairs cannot contest falcons Uairs reliably. It works every once in a while but I wouldn't bet on it.

Turnip in hand is mandatory as it helps control space and makes falcon think twice about blitzing you mindlessly. The only issue here is finding the time and space to pull the turnip without getting punished. His lightning fast run speed and pivot grab is pretty ridiculous, he'll be across the screen then in your face in a blink of an eye.

One pro we do have is falcon is pretty easy to combo because of his heavyweight and size (pretty tall, no?). If you manage to clip him with just about any move I don't see any difficulty following up and racking up the percent or putting him in a edge guard situation. His recovery is simple and gets exposed pretty hard as peach can cover multiple options at once with turnip and float, just make sure you don't play him too close and get grabbed by his upb. Just make it difficult and bait the air dodges when heading out there.

Falcon with rage is no bueno, I'm sure we all know that by now. Raptor boost kills around 80%(?) on smashville. He's a pest to actually kill, I have more success just getting gimps and letting him fall off the stage.

Overall, I feel peach loses to falcon. I'll post more detailed stuff later, just some thoughts as I sit here at work lol.

 

[Razmakazi]

This match-up is Luigi's favor but maybe just 55-45, though.

It's one of those ones that take a hella lot of patience on both sides because both characters are dangerous to approach. Luigi can only really zone or approach with fireballs because his aerials don't have the range safely attack a floating Peach. That being said, fireballs are godly. If you shield them that's a free grab because fireballs are plus on shield, but you can easily jump out of those and bair/dair their grab attempt.

As far as killing goes, luigi has more power but Peach can edgeguard him well. Racket is good in this match-up because you want to send him away horizontally and force him to missile back. Usually he'll want to go low and save his double jump for a sweetspot up b, so try to snipe that with a turnip or time dair/dsmash. Or just wait because if he tries to fight his way back (ledge release dj fair/fireball/nair) you have a good chance of smacking him out of his dj. On Luigi's side he has that godly usmash, which does have invul, and he has a great bair, but luigi isn't really ast enough to approach with bair so if you space your float you shouldn't really be unsafe. Just camp at kill percent and harass with turnips, and hope u don't get killed.

___

Falcon is probably even-ish, but his uair is quite obnoxious.

Peach can turnip his recovery or dair it. She can combo him. Dthrow mix-ups are great because he's heavy, so dthrow/ftilt/regrab or dtilt are totally things you can do. He's tall so bair oos is great vs him (dair or grab if he dairs your shield because his hitbox becomes super small). Turnips are excellent because even though he's fast enough to approach he still has to account for them. The main thing is to stay mobile and to be a wall. Don't whiff too much because he'll punish them all. But make sure that you're ready to bair or dair on reaction. You can also dash attack or grab his run approach, or bomber. Just mix it up so you can score grab to bair.

On Falcon's side, Peach isn't too hard to hit out of the air or out of floats because uair is incredible. Peach is also tall so uair is a great approach. She's floaty and slow on the ground so if you whiff you're going to get grabbed or dash attacked. Dthrow combos peach to hell, and despite her floatiness uair -> knee still works. He wrecks the crap out of a Peach that isn't carefully. The good news for Peach is that while his aerial approaches are difficult to pick off, they aren't too hard to avoid. A lot of the time Peach can roll into falcon if he tries full hop approaches or hunts for bair. But if you roll you must realize that Falcon is hunting for that next time. Falcon's rely on reads so you must account for all defensive actions because otherwise you might be catching a mean raptor boost or grab/uair.

The boxing game between the two is a toss-up, too. Falcon's jab is incredible. He can jab to grab mix-up, or just do the 3 jabs. She can only wait in shield but that's fine because Falcon's grab is hard to space, and if he finishes rapid jabs just dash attack or dtilt him. If he does the 3 hit combo, though, he might do it again so react quickly. I'd opt for an escape option, like a retreat float fastfall, or actually you can dtilt because you'll duck the first hit of a new jab combo. Either way Falcon has better boxing options.

They basically both have the tools to keep each other at bay, and while Peach can edgeguard Falcon well, he can outright kill her with uair, fsmash, usmash. Watch for the back hit of dsmash too.

So yeah, the match-up is pretty even. Falcon harasses Peach, but not like sword characters do, so he's not too bad.

 

[Meru.]

Watch your landings!! I'm probably going to say this in a lot of match-up discussions because it's Peach most abusable weakness, but at the same it's also one that can be covered by the Peach player if they pay attention to it. This match-up is definitely one where focusing on your landings is top-priority, or else Falcon will have accumulated a bunch of percent before you know it. Moving away, waving her Fair now and then, going for the ledge sometimes (however since Falcon's ledge is superb I wouldn't go for this too often), accepting you're getting combo'd and looking for a way out somehow, all of these are valid strategies to help you gain as less % as possible. One wrong landing means you could be eating an Fsmash or Side B. A mistake like this can change the outcome of the entire match!

Peach's combos game is definitely scary though. He's big and a somewhat heavy fast-faller, which means hits string really easy on him, and his landings aren't always the safest either. Try to squeeze as much percents as you can when you land a hit on him.

Bair works amazing vs him, it stops pretty every approach he has. Fair is slow but outspaces (almost?) everything he has.

Watch out for Side B, it will hit you out of your float or landings. Usmash OoS usually doesn't have enough range to punish it, dropping shield and doing a running Usmash is too slow. This thing is really laggy though, I think both Fair/Bair are guaranteed punishes, maybe even Fsmash? (need confirmation)

Turnips can destroy his recovery. Fair will sometimes hit him out his UpB but it requires some timing. It can also be dangerous since you it can lead to getting stagespiked yourself if you mess up and get grabbed by his UpB. Anyway even it's only a Dair try to at least get some percent in when edgeguarding him.

I absolutely hate his jab. It will sometimes hit even her out of her Dair ._. I think It's pretty punishable though, but Falcons like to mix-up jab 2 and jab 3 to cover its lag. Jab is definitely something to look out for, it can even kill close to the ledge.

Falcon's pressure when his opponent is on the ledge is amazing, mainly because of that horrific jab. Apart from the standard sutff like get-up attacks and jumps you can also second-jump Fair/Dair (but preferably Fair, it won't beat his jab though) or Peach Bomber (especially good vs jab happy Falcons). Needless to say don't be predictable with this, or else your landing will get punished and Falcon punishes landings hard.

A lot of Falcon like to suddenly dash in and surprise you, especially at the start of a match. A simple jab or Bair will keep them in check.

Apart from punishes like Fsmash and Side B his main killing move seems to be Bair, a strong move with a lot of range. Falcons especially love doing Bair while landing or by jumping high in the air (sometimes with a double jump) and then landing a Bair on you. You can challenge it with Fair, which works best while he's jumping but punishing his landing can also work if you can attack him from an angle his Bair won't hit, or with Usmash, Uair (definitely best while he's jumping, instead of trying to punish his landing) and turnips. However, especially with moves like Usmash, which can be beated by Bair and get you punished if you mistime the Usmash, you are taking a risk so I don't always advise it. His Jump > landing Bair isn't very safe on shield and it's predictable so just staying safe yourself and let him swing may be the best option at times.

His Uair is much safer and combos into a Fair but that only at certain percents (and it's also not entirely unpredictable). I think his Uair > Jab beats shieldgrabs too? (need confirmation)

Lol I thought I didn't have much to say on this match-up but apparently I did have to say more than I had thought. Anyway I think it's a very even match-up, and a very momentum-based one.

Edit: I should really proofread my posts after I post them.

 

[adlp]

good writeup. thanks bro

 

[ZoneDemon]

One key punish option that should ALWAYS be taken advantage of from a falcon player is a missed Doakin Special. The kick has a good bit of ending lag when performed on the ground so you have the option to do s or dtilt,or any smash attack " you can prepare for this moment by making sure you have frying pan next." If they do it in the air from ledge or the center of the stage, it's even easier to punish. A good player won't normail use down b, but if they do prepare to get a lot of percent from it.

 

[Meru.]

This thread is too inactive.

I propose discussing one character per week, with each discussion starting on Monday. The order in which we'll discuss the characters should be set so we don't have to discuss what character we're going to do next every week. I suggest the following order:

Spoiler

Sheik
Sonic
Mario
Fox
Ness
ZSS
Rosalina
Pikachu
Villager
Lucario
Megaman
Pacman
Duck Hunt
Toon Link
Ryu
Roy
Wario
ROB
Pit
Shulk
Meta Knight
Jigglypuff
Lucas
Link
Olimar
Greninja
Mewtwo
Dedede
Little Mac
Donkey Kong
Ike
Samus
Palutena
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Falco
Game and Watch
Marth/Lucina
Kirby
Dr. Mario
Robin
Charizard
Wii Fit Trainer
Ganondorf
Zelda

Strong characters, popular characters and characters that are likely to give Peach trouble are higher and will be discussed earlier.

Furthermore, please do not hesitate to ask any questions about any match-up in either this thread or the Q&A Thread, even if it isn't the match-up discussed at that moment. This game has 55 characters, it will take longer than a year to discuss all characters. If you have a questions about a match-up, ask about it or else you may have to wait a veeery long time before your match-up finally gets discussed. Preferably ask your questions in the Q&A thread to avoid interrupting the current match-up discussion, but if the discussion has died down (like it has now) it's fine to ask them in here too. Also, please take the time to answer your fellow Peach players' questions. Match-up discussions are important, the more we share our knowledge about them, the more we'll see improvement!

 

[XinShot]

Bair beats out grounded falcon kick