Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

wpwood

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Getting Ness off stage is key to winning that MU. Toad beats PK Thunder and if you can tech you can just jump in front of his up b. Floating at a height that puts you above PK Fire is where I like to be for most of the match, usually with a turnip in hand, but usually I'll throw the turnip and go for a grab to gain stage control. Respect his up air. That move has a weird amount of range and can kill you. Mix up your DI on the down throw to make it harder to get follow ups. You have to be quick and safe if you want to punish Ness. His moves are fast and have a lot of reward. I think Peach wins this if she can get Ness off stage; I don't know by how much though.
 
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Pippu

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Lately I've found myself struggling a ton with Yoshi. I would appreciate a rundown on how to properly deal with this mu. Every and any situation I can be in. I want to understand how to fight against him 100%
 

Neku ネク

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I struggle with this match-up as well. All I know is shield-running is paramount to have mastered when trying to approach. Floating towards him is difficult since, even if you can dodge into float, his eggs come out fast (depending on how far away you are). I would say staying grounded for a majority of the time would be the biggest win and predicting when they're going to use ground pound so you can counter it (got a few kills like that, which was funny).

Otherwise I don't know either.
 

wpwood

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Sorry but I use Palu more against Yoshi than I do Peach so I'm not gonna be too useful for this match. In general watch out for nair, it's really fast, does decent damage, and I think can kill at high %s. His up smash can reach you on BF platforms for some reason. I know Ganon up smash can break the jump armor but I don't know if Peach's fair can break the armor. I would have to test that latter. You might be able to counter egg or Peach bomber under them if you bait a high egg throw. When off stage I would weave in and out of Fair range and try to get to the ledge. I'm just speculation here and haven't tested or done any of this.
 

DiNoahsaur

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Peach vs Yoshi:
Objective #1 = Do not be above Yoshi.
Why? - Eggs destroy your floating approaches, Yoshi's Uair is very fast, this is great for juggling slow fallers (especially Peach), Yoshi's UpSmash is very fast and covers a large hit box above them. Yoshi's Short hop Nair can throw a lot of your approach plans into the dumpster I.e. Nair or Bair.
Objective #1 = For Peach, Spacing is VERY important in this match-up. Yoshi's punishable windows are very small, you need to be really close to Yoshi to ensure you have the time to punish.
Potentially useful options in this match-up strategy:
--Dark.pch's Quick Float Release really helps play mind games with the Yoshi Player ("Do I approach or throw an egg?")
--Fast Fall Float Cancel - use this to do some micro-spacing (great for baiting Yoshi's UpSmash) (obviously, he's just warming up with them, but I'm talking about those kinds of movements that EOE is doing in the quick warm-up/button check before this set; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTnBs4rYpOw
--Floating Stutter-step when Approaching (run at them, then do a quick momentum breaking float canceled hop to mess up Yoshi's timing.
--Throw in some Clever rolls! People usually assume Rolling is a purely defensive tool, that simply isn't the case---just watch Umeki, SlayerZ, ChileZero, Vinnie, etc.


As for hard strategy, I don't have much to give you. This is an unfavorable match-up with for Peach, by far.
 
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RustlinJims

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So how about this cloud fool? Anybody find any good ways to get at him? He seems to have a good toolkit vs Peach but maybe I'm just not used to fighting him yet.
 

Breakout

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So how about this cloud fool? Anybody find any good ways to get at him? He seems to have a good toolkit vs Peach but maybe I'm just not used to fighting him yet.
Treat him like little Mac gimp him off stage and watch out for the K.O punch/ Limit Break. But cloud does have a very good juggle game so he can punish float better than most of the cast. I don't think anyone has enough data because we haven't seen many good cloud players. Try focusing on getting him off stage, and try to float approach more on the ground than in the air where it can be punished. And we'll go from there. If anyone else has any ideas on how to deal with cloud plz contribute.
 

☆Jazz☆

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Hey Peachy Mains, I need help. Discussing Peach matchups in general, what mindset should I use against characters? Is it smart to try and approach characters aggressively or defensively? I feel like this wasn't good enough...
 

Neku ネク

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I think the best way to play Peach is start off defensively and when you begin your combos transition into offensive play.

I have Rosalina as a second main and she needs to be played as a defense character, so I've transferred a lot of her knowledge and playstyle to how I play Peach.
 

☆Jazz☆

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I think the best way to play Peach is start off defensively and when you begin your combos transition into offensive play.

I have Rosalina as a second main and she needs to be played as a defense character, so I've transferred a lot of her knowledge and playstyle to how I play Peach.
Ah ok, thanks!
 

Carrill

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Hey Peachy Mains, I need help. Discussing Peach matchups in general, what mindset should I use against characters? Is it smart to try and approach characters aggressively or defensively? I feel like this wasn't good enough...
I'm not experienced with the Cloud matchup just yet but I do have some thoughts to share on your general play. Right after you got Cloud down to the last stock, I feel like you should have played a lot more defensively. At two stocks ahead, you had no real reason to use all of those risky side Bs. I would have tried to get as much damage as possible without necessarily trying to kill him. That way, if you somehow got to the last stock and were really having a tough time getting the last kill, something like a forward tilt or a back throw at the edge of the stage would have been enough.
 

☆Jazz☆

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I'm not experienced with the Cloud matchup just yet but I do have some thoughts to share on your general play. Right after you got Cloud down to the last stock, I feel like you should have played a lot more defensively. At two stocks ahead, you had no real reason to use all of those risky side Bs. I would have tried to get as much damage as possible without necessarily trying to kill him. That way, if you somehow got to the last stock and were really having a tough time getting the last kill, something like a forward tilt or a back throw at the edge of the stage would have been enough.
omg you're right. I can't believe I messed up an easy win, basically.

Of course, I should practice my matchups on 3 stocks in addition to 2 stock ones. This is why it didn't click immediately that I should have played defensively, since I was so close to three stocking Cloud.

Again, thanks Carrill Carrill and Neku ネク Neku ネク for the Peach advice. I decided to start learning Peach again, since she was my very 1st smash bros character (and main, since I could actually win with her) I played with back when I started the series with Brawl, so I really appreciate the advice. Followed :)
 
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Neku ネク

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omg you're right. I can't believe I messed up an easy win, basically.

Of course, I should practice my matchups on 3 stocks in addition to 2 stock ones. This is why it didn't click immediately that I should have played defensively, since I was so close to three stocking Cloud.

I decided to start learning Peach again, since she was my very 1st smash bros character (and main, since I could actually win with her) I played with back when I started the series with Brawl, so I really appreciate the advice. Followed :)

No offense to the Cloud player but he didn't seem that... good. He wasn't handling him well from the beginning. I'm in no way a Peach expert myself; I still have much to learn.

From watching the video, you should have tried more approaches with float as mix-ups. It's good to see you using dtilt but don't rely solely on it because people learn to expect it and tech it. Try using grabs more because her combo game with grabs is sooooooooo good. Be careful with Peach bomber; I catch myself being punished the same way by whiffing. Also be careful using Toad in the air. It'll slow you down and throw them off but against fast characters it's like a target on your head.

Also as stated above, you should have played defensively after the first two stocks. Build up damage with combos and try grabs to get Cloud off stage then apply pressure for easy gimps and such.
 

☆Jazz☆

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No offense to the Cloud player but he didn't seem that... good. He wasn't handling him well from the beginning. I'm in no way a Peach expert myself; I still have much to learn.

From watching the video, you should have tried more approaches with float as mix-ups. It's good to see you using dtilt but don't rely solely on it because people learn to expect it and tech it. Try using grabs more because her combo game with grabs is sooooooooo good. Be careful with Peach bomber; I catch myself being punished the same way by whiffing. Also be careful using Toad in the air. It'll slow you down and throw them off but against fast characters it's like a target on your head.

Also as stated above, you should have played defensively after the first two stocks. Build up damage with combos and try grabs to get Cloud off stage then apply pressure for easy gimps and such.
she was the 3rd Cloud player I faced. I need to buy him already, so I can practice against him.


*sigh* Because of that performance, I apparently became "So baaadd". I can't wait to punish that douche. (Not Koiba. Someone else I know who said that).

Ok, with all of the info I gathered, are there any turnip techniques I could apply to get an advantage?
 
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Neku ネク

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Ok, with all of the info I gathered, are there any turnip techniques I could apply to get an advantage?
I saw you approach with turnip into an attempted grab. That was good. If you can do a floating Dair into z drop turnip into Nair or something like that you can apply amazing shield pressure. Also if people are above you, pull turnips and throw them up and predict their landing. I've landed tipper up smashes because people dodged the turnips and landed on me. You can also throw/drop turnips at Cloud when he's off stage. He'll definitely be gimped if you land them. It could also force him to dodge and ruin his jump momentum, making his recovery much harder to land. That's about all I can think of.
 

Meru.

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Anybody know how peach stands against ness?
This is big spacing battle, so be sure to use those shorthop Bairs, ground float Nairs and floating retreating Fair. Look at the pattern in which he throws out aerials (shorthop? full hop aerial to landing aerial? full hop aerial to double jump aerial?) and punish whiffed aerials according using your aerials. HOWEVER, BE WARY OF HIS AIRDODGE! His airdodge to aerial is a seriously good defensive manoever. Use your aerials close to the ground so your aerial lag gets canceled. Peachs landing lag is very little, but her aerials have plenty of lag in the air. Ness main will try to abuse that by airdodging your aerial and Uair you doing your lag. Prevent this by landing! Peach's Uair is especially very good at it.

Uair is the move you want to look out for, especially when he's landing, after a full hop aerial or after an airdodge. It kills Peach at a little bit above 110 without any rage and the range is absurd. His Uair is not punishable if he lands behind you but he is at a disadvantage. If he lands in front of you, you can grab him.

Against his recovery Toad works. I he goes behind you, you can Bair or Dair. His second jump is pretty slow too, it's somewhat easy to snipe with turnips. Watch out for his second jump to aerial though! I have eaten his second jump to Bair/Uair more than once while floating in the air, waiting to Toad his UpB.

Turnips are amazing in this match-up because they outrange a lot of stuff he does. Use standing throw, shorthop throw and full hop throw. All of them are good against him.

Other than that basic stuff like be safe, don't Dair in front of him unless you really want to eat a Bair, don't recklessly dash in his wall of aerials etc etc.

Lately I've found myself struggling a ton with Yoshi. I would appreciate a rundown on how to properly deal with this mu. Every and any situation I can be in. I want to understand how to fight against him 100%
Walk to him until he is at a range where egg throw is unsafe. He is no Brawl Falco, he can phantasm to the other side of the stage. He will have to do some sort of approach and frankly you can stop his approach pretty easily with shorthop Bairs, float Nairs/Fairs and of course, turnips, or by baiting out his options and punish accordingly (for example, if you know he's gonna dash attack, just bait it and punish).

His landings are relatively easy to punish with dash attack, turnips and ranged aerial like Fair/Dair. Avoid this command grab: this is his main tool to cover his landings.

His kill options are limited, predictable and unsafe. Uair is good but only works if you recover from above. Jab can lead to Usmash or Fsmash but it's a guessing game and his jab lacks range (the range is about the same as ours). Other than that he has his smashes, which all have pretty good range, but Usmash requires to either land badly/do a bad jump and Fsmash only hits if you run into it. Both are unsafe as well, dash attack punishes it reliably.

The most important thing is finding the range where Peach is comfortable and can safely outspace him without having to worry about his eggs. It's there and it's a pretty sizable zone too. It's about Peach's turnip throw range. If you stay calm, safe and don't let those eggs distract you, you'll find yourself wrecking Yoshi's face from this range often.

So how about this cloud fool? Anybody find any good ways to get at him? He seems to have a good toolkit vs Peach but maybe I'm just not used to fighting him yet.
Not super experienced vs Cloud but don't stay in the air for long unless you want to get Uaired. Ground float and shorthop Fair outspaces a lot of stuff he does, shorthop Bairs stops a lot of stuff too. Peach has plenty of anti-aerials using her own aerials, if you fight an air happy Cloud throw them out, or look at where he lands.

His landing punishes are pretty good, he has his projectile, Side B, dash attack, Dtilt and dash grab to punish your landings. Land outside of his Dtilt range and shield the dash attack, it's very unsafe. In case of fear of having your landings punished, the ledge is your friend.

His projectile is laggy, you can float over it easily and often punish him for it. Usually they won't throw it out up close though. There's not much he can do if the throws out his projectile from afar, it has not follow-ups even if he hits with it so no stress there.

On stage it's pretty even, but off stage he's your slave. Clouds has no horizontal recovery option, he only has his UpB, which can be Daired super easily, Toaded Faired, Baired, Naired... If you avoid his hitbox (which isn't that big) and hit him before he grabs the ledge (which is quite some window), you wreck his UpB. Clouds will hate recoverying low against Peach so much, they will try to recover high against using second jumps, airdodges and their laggy aerials, but Peach rapes opponent who recover high. You can float in the air, wait for them to airdodge and then Fair/Nair them, or you can float low, wait for them to second jump over you and then second jump together and Fair them, you can using turnips, you can just yolo Fair... If he recovers high bait his options and wreck him. You;re in the advantage, all he has to defend himself are laggy aerials that he cant space optimally or airdodges/second jumps, abuse it.
 

jugeeya

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So how about this cloud fool? Anybody find any good ways to get at him? He seems to have a good toolkit vs Peach but maybe I'm just not used to fighting him yet.
In addition to what has already been said, Cloud LOVES jumping from ledge because his ledgejump is so high. Learn to cover it with full hop (no less) fairs or other aerials so you can make sure he gets punished.
 

ARISTOS

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can we discuss pikachu
I think Pikachu is more of a nuisance than a real threat.

It's important to get Float Nair down as it's your best option to prevent QA abuse. Of course, good Pikachu's will Tjolt you until you get hit, which will then allow them to get in QA and get in lots of shenanigans. Walk powershield against camping Pikachu's.

Float double Dair is pretty safe against Pika, who I believe can not act out with a fast enough move to counter it. It's important to extend your punishes on Pika as long as possible-he has way higher manuverability, but you do WAY more damage per hit than he does, so take advantage of that.

Pikachu will die early to Fair (a bit harder to land) and Up-Smash (the invincibility and side-hitboxes will beat out QA).

I've found that as long as you keep your head mentally (ignore that you're getting comboed-it's not for that much damage) and keep your punish game strong, you can do a ton of work. Try and keep Fair as fresh as possible, and try and have a turnip on hand b/w 60-70% (Dair->Turnip->Fair will kill at this %)

Someone better than me should continue this though, I'm a scrub :upsidedown:
 

ARISTOS

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Can we talk about :4metaknight:? He's becoming more and more of a popular pick and prepping for him will definitely be important.
 

Dark.Pch

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Thanks Yaaay for changing the title to this. I been slacking off since I been more focused on other things, like streaming and some partner ships I been with. But I will try to be more active with tips. So for now, people can talk about w/e. When the front page is updated with new character info, I will let you all know. Im Cleaning up the first page 2morrow.
 

DiNoahsaur

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I've Noticed that a lot of Peach players struggle with Fox (Including myself).

There are some good matches between Skarfelt and EoE, but I feel like the Fox Meta has changed a bit---as well as Peach's Meta---since these videos were released. I have difficulty using these matches as a resource to study Peach vs. Fox now....

Any tips on the Match-up would be appreciated!
 

Neku ネク

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I've Noticed that a lot of Peach players struggle with Fox (Including myself).

There are some good matches between Skarfelt and EoE, but I feel like the Fox Meta has changed a bit---as well as Peach's Meta---since these videos were released. I have difficulty using these matches as a resource to study Peach vs. Fox now....

Any tips on the Match-up would be appreciated!
Luckily my roommate plays Fox at a high level so I have some good experience.

Since Fox doesn't have as many throw combos his throws will be less of an issue at mid/high percents (and none of them really kill either). Watch out for his Uair because there's few things that can challenge it quickly; I get punished for trying Dair against him. Most Fox players who use JCUS (Jump cancelled Up Smash) will go for SH Nair / Dair: SHIELD THESE. If you don't and get the short hit, you're gonna get hit with UpSmash and die really early. If you find a Fox player who does ledge trumping, make sure your ledge get-ups are quick or you'll get either Bair or Dsmash (if you regrab ledge since no ledge invincibility). Watch out for Bair as well.

He's easy to combo because he is a fast faller and at 0% you can actually chain grab (if they don't jump away) with Grab > D Throw > F Tilt > Grab (run in) > D Throw > F Tilt or Bair > possible Side B (depending on if they DI bad and don't jump, but throwing out the option is good as a mix-up too).

If you get Fox off stage and he uses Illusion to recover to the ledge, run off with Float and use Dair/Fair/Nair depending on what you're comfortable with. If you are fast with your button timing, you can Fair him for a lot of knockback. Nair is a safe option too because it's fast and will force him back further.

If Fox uses Fox Fire to recover at an angle, I LOVE to run off and Fair really quick. Normally it'll kill and if not, it'll gimp heavily. You can also try Bair for a stage spike if he recovers low. You may take a little bit of damage from flames but nothing will kill. Dair also works if you float under the stage, but make sure you face towards the stage with float so if the hits connect it'll throw him towards the stage for a spike.

If you really want to style, use Toad against his Up B lol. It's so funny.

I think that should be a decent amount of info.
 

Djmarcus44

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The mii gunner boards are discussing the matchup with Peach. We are currently discussing 0/0 3312 gunner's matchup with Peach, but discussion on 1111 50/50 gunner's matchup against Peach would also be appreciated.
 

Awesomecakes

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I nominate Bayonetta. What do?

I feel like if I throw out anything I get side b'd and witch timed, So I end up having to play walking on the ground and ready to shield at all times, while Bayo can do whatever she wants. Turnips are safe-ish and can punish aerials, but they can be with timed too at close range and I'd like a better way to get some damage started.

What moves can we punish and how?
 

Neku ネク

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I definitely agree on discussing Bayonetta. Literally nothing is safe on her and the combos are nearly impossible to Di out of.

I had to switch to Corrin in order to counter her because nothing Peach has is really safe...
 

verbatim

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Keep in mind, you aren't supposed to throw out "safe" things at Bayonetta because of witch time, you should be playing shield heavy and fishing for grabs regardless of what character you're playing.

IDK much about Peach but I'd imagine ftilt/fsmash work good as anti air's against afterburner kick, and that eventually you can get the f-throw kill.
 

Neku ネク

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Keep in mind, you aren't supposed to throw out "safe" things at Bayonetta because of witch time, you should be playing shield heavy and fishing for grabs regardless of what character you're playing.

IDK much about Peach but I'd imagine ftilt/fsmash work good as anti air's against afterburner kick, and that eventually you can get the f-throw kill.
Unfortunately, you're wrong about the ftilt/smash idea. Those are just as unsafe mostly because her after-burner kick is faster. Unless you're good with timing you're probably going to get combo'd. As for an entire game based on grabs it's starting to look like that's how she has to be handled.
 

Dark.Pch

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Sorry Uncle Peach has been away for a while. But im back. Im gonna update the front page with new info and be more active around here.
 

Dark.Pch

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I added 2 videos to the front post breaking down the match up with C.Falcon and ZSS. I will be doing this with all characters. The next vid to be made like this is Rosalina and Luma
 

LuigimanTails

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rolling I only did one match,
but the player was caught off guard because I usually was struggling to nair lloid/experimenting with different approaches. I wouldn't say it's surefire, but it could be legitimate mixup I believe if you utilize it correctly with OoS.

but if you can get close to villager without them throwing out slingshot or upair to see what he does then I'm surprised they let you get away with that. dash attack from tilt, his tilt is too fast. turnip, though, could suffice; I should pluck more in my matches.

there's no way to be safe when you're next to villager though, his options simply outnumber yours.

a villager I fought a few days back replayed one of his matches; they were somewhat goofy friendlies, so recovery mistakes and stuff like that aren't integral faults, but the neutral shares the core of our more serious matchups. maybe my explanations don't do justice to the situation; since you are willing to offer advice on mus I think the replay could shed some light. not the best quality,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0OoLrMptFI&feature=youtu.be
but it does the job.

for the record
I don't have an especially tough time with this match up
as when you take your time and compose patience you will probably snuff out the win
but I think the villager mu guide could be more tight.
Hey,
I saw your you tube battle, it may be too late to kick in on this. But i have a couple of suggestions. 1) when villager uses the rocket, usually their first reaction is rushing in for the grab, use the toad, it'll help narrow down their approach options. But use the toad only if you know villager is about the rush for the grab after the rocket. 2) I would not suggest fighting villager off stage. However, edge guarding villager works great, but wait until villager uses up all his options and used up B. At that point, villager is defenseless, and you could use dair or bair next the ledge on villager and if he doesn't tech, it'll work if you time the fair or bair just right.
 
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