Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

[Nabbitnator]

Kirby can't really approach so peach can weave in an out of his range. In fact peach can force him to approach with a turnip Bair is an annoying tool against peach but she can also wall with her own bair. Kirby can also use fair to drag her down out of the air to catch poor spacing on peach's part. On shield kirby doesn't have a punish on shield his oos options are pretty poor. Off stage we can edge guard with turnips, dair him to get a stage spike, or even bair him during his up b to spike him. We do need to be careful with misplaced.

Pro's
-Kirby cannot approach peach very well as she can force him to approach and force a mistake.
-We can use our bair to wall kirby.
-Shield hurts kirby as he cannot do much to it except grab, dair, or bair. (when peach spaces poorly that is.)
-She can stop kirby's aerial approach or stop him momentarily with turnips.
- All though he is light he is still fairly easy to combo.
-He dies rather early to many of peach's set up.

Con's
-Bair is a good poking tool.
-Kirby can combo fairly well.
-He is also decent off stage edge guarding as well, his bair can net some early kills.

I believe this match is more so in peach's favor as kirby has to approach, his bair is a good poking tool but it does not body peach. Kirby can definitely he just has to work ALOT harder to do so.

 

[Royal_Tea]

When I state that absorbing turnips are Kirby's biggest advantage I don't mean it in a practical sense. It would be too risky to use that against a good Peach because it can be baited to an easy approach/punish. Not to mention, it only recovers 1% lol. Other than that, the only other issues are Dair and Bair. But remaining above Peach is not a good idea as someone as light as Kirby for Parasol reads, upsmash kills, or utilt's disjointed hitbox.

Using turnips are one of Peach's best ways to wall out opponents or approach. However, it is not needed in several matchups where Peach can forced the opponent to approach like this one.

As for his UpB, I am referring to punishing. If he gets on stage using upB, the disjointed hit box of his sword can outrange Peach in an attempt to challenge him. It is easy to punish if you shield or do offstage dairs off the ledge as Captain said.

 

[Captain Zack]

Kirby can't really approach so peach can weave in an out of his range. In fact peach can force him to approach with a turnip Bair is an annoying tool against peach but she can also wall with her own bair. Kirby can also use fair to drag her down out of the air to catch poor spacing on peach's part. On shield kirby doesn't have a punish on shield his oos options are pretty poor. Off stage we can edge guard with turnips, dair him to get a stage spike, or even bair him during his up b to spike him. We do need to be careful with misplaced.

Pro's
-Kirby cannot approach peach very well as she can force him to approach and force a mistake.
-We can use our bair to wall kirby.
-Shield hurts kirby as he cannot do much to it except grab, dair, or bair. (when peach spaces poorly that is.)
-She can stop kirby's aerial approach or stop him momentarily with turnips.
- All though he is light he is still fairly easy to combo.
-He dies rather early to many of peach's set up.

Con's
-Bair is a good poking tool.
-Kirby can combo fairly well.
-He is also decent off stage edge guarding as well, his bair can net some early kills.

I believe this match is more so in peach's favor as kirby has to approach, his bair is a good poking tool but it does not body peach. Kirby can definitely he just has to work ALOT harder to do so.

kirby doesnt have to approach. all he needs to do is literally get some dmg and get out. kirby isnt meant to be an approaching monster and it's clearly intended that way. peach cannot space out with bair because all kirby has to do is wait for it and easily punish. turnip does kind of stop his approaches but if the kirby is spacing well he's just outside of peach's range which is close enough to punish. shield doesnt hurt kirby because of how hard it is to punish a well spaced bair or landed bair becuz of his small hurtbox. unless you're very proficient at low float bair OoS which i dont think works anymore because of shield nerf. kirby does not have to approach peach like i said, all he has to do is continuously put on pressure like every good kirby does. he dies to peach's setups early sure, but so does pch. peach is also light so if he is good at edge guarding you die at about 110 to a meaty bair. this matchup is much better if you played peach vs jiggs in melee a lot. a decent peach will get destroyed by a great kirby, but i dont think it's vice versa. still the matchup is 5-5 or 5.5-4.5 to me.

 

[Phan7om]

What to do against Kirby
-Use movement more than shield, and stay unpredictable so Dair wont hit and Grabs are harder to land
-Get him above you, Kirby cant land.
-Toad/Aerial up-b unless the Kirby can consistantly sweetspot... which is very low and telegraphed so its easy to float dair it on reaction. Its like frame 30 or so (later) when he would grab the ledge after the Up-B started.
-Zone him out hard
-Stay out of grab range at %s under 40, float if you have to. After that DI away from him after every throw for no followups
-Bait out short hop aerials and punish the lag
-Around 130-160% use more shield, none of his throws will kill you without platforms even with rage.

What not to do
-Autopilot float aerials and grabs so Kirby can duck under them
-Return to anywhere near center stage when Kirby is offstage, his recovery is worse than people think.
-Try to sheild grab Dair
-Sheild at low %s, unless you absolutely know youre gonna get hit
-Dont do anything too commital, aka dont get baited and punished
-Recover low often, he cant really do anything if you recover high tbh that isnt telegraphed. He has to use like 3 jumps and either Bair or Fair depending on which way hes facing, Uair wont kill so dont worry about that. Edgeguarding with Kirby is overrated af
-Pull turnips if Kirby is not in a disadvantage or isnt very far away from you
-Land into him with an aerial if he can attack or shield

Missing obvious things that were already mentioned or are things you all should know. Kirby has too many weaknesses and can be dominated by people with almost any character if they play the matchup right. Most of Kirby's success is people running into his stuff/having bad spacing/autopiloting moves Kirby can duck under/not knowing what to do. Easily in Peach's favor. Matchup should take long if you are doing it right and the Kirby is good. 70:30 Peach imo.

 

[Dessa]

Kirby is nowhere near as disadvantaged as you suspect here. I'd concede that he has trouble dealing with Peach's in and out game, but going in on a grounded Kirby is playing to his strength, particularly if you're coming in from the air.

Kirby's swallow is not terribly fast, but it cancels sooner on confirm, so if he does swallow a turnip, there is less room to punish. Startup is what makes inhale weak here, as Peach is awesome at baiting and punishing.

All in all, I'd still say Peach has an advantage, but it's not dramatic. If you want to see Kirby in a 70-30, ty playing him against Yoshi or maybe Sonic.

 

[Meru.]

I feel Peach has lots of even matchups so I dont often think a match up is clearly advantageous but Kirby is one of the ones where I did feel Peach had a clear advantage.

Its not like Kirby is hopeless, far from it. He still has some decent combos I guess, and lots of stuff will kill earlier than you would think. His moves arent slow either.

However, Peach abuses his range weakness but moving/floating back and forth and throwing out long ranged moves. Kirbys absolute hate Fair, Bair and Dair, especially the fotmer two outspace a lot of his tools. Peach combos him just as hard (her BnB combos arent weight dependent, lighter characters arent hard to combo per se), she kills him just as well and with a clear advantage in range the match naturally starts shifting in her favor.

Not at all a free matchup though. His grab combos are good and he has some scary things. His smashes kill early (although they are slow and unsafe) and his Dair kill confirms if I recall correctly. He has some decent stuff, but if you space well and start your pressure once you get your hit, you should be fine.

Anyway we have been discussing Kirby for a week now. Next please.

 

[Shadeprince]

Can we do falcon next?

 

[Meru.]

We have discussed him already a few pages ago. I would prefer we discuss other characters first.

Feel free to ask questions about a match-up though. Are you having trouble with the Falcon match-up? What is it that gives you trouble?

 

[Shadeprince]

I get grabbed too often, and his jab stops like everything.

 

[Meru.]

I get grabbed too often, and his jab stops like everything.

Getting dash grabbed usually happens when you stand still too often, or if you whiff. Move around a lot and avoid whiffing. Whiffing and doing unsafe moves in general is dangerous versus Falcon in general because this character lives on baiting and punishing.

Jab is a PAIN. His jab finishers are both unsafe though, so if you see a jab coming, shield it and punish. Avoid Dairing when you feel he can jab you: you usually get jabbed when you attempt Dair. Instead use other moves with more range (Fair, Bair, Dtilt, turnips). Another idea is to first throw a turnip and then Dair him. Often his jab wont come out of on time. When you feel a Dair is safe to throw it, feel free to do it because Falcon hates this move and he's combo food. Near the ledge this move is super hard to beat though, which is why his ledge pressure is fantastic. It's really just becomes a game of mix-ing up: mix-up jumps aerials/Peach Bomber with standard get-ups, jumps, rolls and get-up attacks. His ledge pressure is where he will get most damage from, so try minimizing the damage he gets from you being on the ledge.

 

[Dessa]

I vote for Yoshi or Sonic. I'm picking up Peach half in hopes that she handles those two jerks better than Kirby can.

 

[PeachBooty]

I vote for Yoshi or Sonic. I'm picking up Peach half in hopes that she handles those two jerks better than Kirby can.

Those 2 are 2 of Peach's worst match-ups.

 

[Captain Zack]

Those 2 are 2 of Peach's worst match-ups.

im sorry but WHAT? please boo you gotta stop spreading info like this. v.v yoshi and sonic are literally even matchups. her worst BY FAR are diddy/zss/sheik. worst because of complete destruction in the neutral. sonic cant outplay peach in neutral and yoshi has to work to get percent. those 2 are def not the worst matchups

 

[Dessa]

im sorry but WHAT? please boo you gotta stop spreading info like this. v.v yoshi and sonic are literally even matchups. her worst BY FAR are diddy/zss/sheik. worst because of complete destruction in the neutral. sonic cant outplay peach in neutral and yoshi has to work to get percent. those 2 are def not the worst matchups

You know, if that's the case, you could do worse than have Kirby as a second. Kirby can duck a lof of ZSS' moveset, can neutralize Sheik's needle pressure with duck, and can float right out of combos on account of being so light. Diddy isn't so bad either, IMO.

I guess I'll just have to get out there and play and see which one of you is right.

 

[Meru.]

I also think Sheik/ZSS/Diddy are her hardest match-ups, and Villager too. I dont think their her worst by far though, I find all of them really slight disadvantages, so super doable match-ups that you will also often win. Diddy is probably the most likely to shift to even in time, I often feel he is more annoying than actually hard. **** his Fair and bananas.

Kirby can duck a lof of ZSS' moveset, can neutralize Sheik's needle pressure with duck...

Kirby's duck really isnt as special as people make it seem. What options does he have out of a crouch anyway? Its not like he has a fast dash to punish whiffed attacks with. He doesnt even have the lowest crouch, Wii Fit does, but you dont see Wii Fit players claiming they do well against top tiers because they can crouch stuff.

If you want a secondary to do well with in tourney, picking a top tier, preferably an easy one like Diddy or something, is most effective imo. Or just stick to full Peach, she's perfectly viable.

 

[Dessa]

Kirby's duck really isnt as special as people make it seem. What options does he have out of a crouch anyway? Its not like he has a fast dash to punish whiffed attacks with. He doesnt even have the lowest crouch, Wii Fit does, but you dont see Wii Fit players claiming they do well against top tiers because they can crouch stuff.

For starters, there's no shield to pressure on a duck, and there's no shield stun or shield lag. Dtilt is a combo starter, it's pretty fast, and it can be performed without losing duck, and immediately as a counter. It's also a kill setup on trip. It's not a cure-all (Kirby can duck something like 90% of Ryu's moveset, and it's still called 50-50 by people better at the game than I), but it sure as sugar is a useful tool in some matchups. Shiek's needles have to be taken seriously at range, for instance, and most characters who can't counterspam are forced to approach, whether they are ahead or behind. A low duck completely neutralizes that. With a percentage lead, Kirby can force Sheik to get within a range much more comfortable for Kirby. I believe duck is effective against Fair as well. You can't tell me that's not a big plus against Shiek. It would still be in Shiek's favor for a number of reasons, but should Kirby get caught by Fair, he can jump out and avoid extra damage and an edge guard. On offense, Kirby can string together 8 hit combos for 40 percent against fast-fallers like Shiek. Kirby can deal with Shiek better than most.

Vs Zero Suit, it's not as big a benefit, but ZSS has to play a different game against Kirby because of duck alone. IHe simply goes under three-quarters of her moveset, and up close Kirby's at a larger advantage than what he usually gets right up in people's faces. The stuff about fast-falling applies to Zero Suit just as well as Shiek, too.

Duck isn't a be-all end-all, but in these two matches, it makes a real difference.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I really feel like the sonic match up is like even and like ever so slightly in our favor. I mean he has good tools, but dair is such a great option in that match it forces him to use other options.

 

[PeachBooty]

im sorry but WHAT? please boo you gotta stop spreading info like this. v.v yoshi and sonic are literally even matchups. her worst BY FAR are diddy/zss/sheik. worst because of complete destruction in the neutral. sonic cant outplay peach in neutral and yoshi has to work to get percent. those 2 are def not the worst matchups

2 OF her worst match-ups. I still don't believe she has any awful match-ups. Sonic is just annoying to deal with in general, but I can agree that it's even. I still think Yoshi is hard for Peach, but at the highest levels of play, I can see it being even.

ZSS & Sheik aren't as hard as a lot of Peach players claim. It's simply because almost every character struggles against them because they're the 2 best characters in the game. I don't think there's anything crucial, specifically for Peach, that would make those 2 match-ups harder than it would be for almost any other character. I know people could start listing things off... but again... they could do that for any other character in those match-ups, and the lists would be just as long, probably longer. Nobody's a hard counter for Peach at all. I'll agree that Diddy is definitely a pain though.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Yeah ngl Yoshi and Sonic are ****** MUs... Sheik / Zss and to a lesser extent Diddy are harder yea but I personally think we lose slightly vs Yoshi (lol @ "he has to work for percent"... like hun...) and Sonic is more just annoying than anything (just want to throw out there that dair cannot be spammed unless the sonic main just refuses to improvise / change their playstyle.)

Also PeachBooty yeah sure ZSS / Sheik don't do anything out of the ordinary to win vs Peach but they still win... specifically most of their fundamental spacing tools mess with our spacing due to their speed and they tend to kill us extremely early (more ZSS than anything, but Sheik's edguarding tools are also extremely dangerous for us offstage even if we are careful). They have some of the easiest times making it back to stage vs us out of the cast. They're not easy by any means and imo Peach's hardest MUs.

 

[Shadeprince]

I understand dark peach did a write up on diddy but can we discuss him now?

 

[PeachBooty]

Yeah ngl Yoshi and Sonic are ****** MUs... Sheik / Zss and to a lesser extent Diddy are harder yea but I personally think we lose slightly vs Yoshi (lol @ "he has to work for percent"... like hun...) and Sonic is more just annoying than anything (just want to throw out there that dair cannot be spammed unless the sonic main just refuses to improvise / change their playstyle.)

Also PeachBooty yeah sure ZSS / Sheik don't do anything out of the ordinary to win vs Peach but they still win... specifically most of their fundamental spacing tools mess with our spacing due to their speed and they tend to kill us extremely early (more ZSS than anything, but Sheik's edguarding tools are also extremely dangerous for us offstage even if we are careful). They have some of the easiest times making it back to stage vs us out of the cast. They're not easy by any means and imo Peach's hardest MUs.

Meh... I still don't really see it, tbh. Peach can combo and kill both ZSS & Sheik far easier than they can her. Any character who's a light-weight fast-faller can't be THAT hard of a match-up for Peach. Yeah, they dominate in the neutral game, but they're both purely momentum based match-ups. It's just getting in and actually capitalizing on those opportunities that makes it tough, but all it takes is one read, grab or dair to get a guarenteed 50%+ on either of them with Peach. That's pretty much kill percent already, lol.

All I'm saying is that I'd much rather find out that I'm facing a ZSS or Sheik, rather than some janky weird-ass character like Yoshi, DDD, or even Wario, where I have to freaking sit there forever, and get like one hit in every 10 years, and never kill them. Are ZSS and Sheik still worse overall match-ups? Of course, but I'd rather get out-played by a top-tier character, than lose because I got bored and or annoyed because of jank.

Yes, I'm very impatient... and I obviously don't like this game at all, lol, but I love Peach, and I enjoy doubles, which keeps me playing it.

 

[Meru.]

Dark.Pch Im just going to change the thread title myself and continue the match-up discussion if you don't mind.

I understand dark peach did a write up on diddy but can we discuss him now?

I have no objection against rediscussing characters but lets discuss other high tier and frequently occurring characters first.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Fine with me

 

[Captain Zack]

mario is dumb but by all means beatable. only decent neutral and ok projectile. most of his fireball shenanigans don't even work against peach lol. the only way i lose this matchup is either against ally or when i run into bair like an idiot and that's what you guys should be doing to. don't run into bair if they're spamming it, don't pluck turnips if the mario has a brain, don't and i mean DON'T FLOAT ABOVE HIM AND DAIR. floating above a mario and dair'ing is literal suicide so dont do it if you want to live lmfao. i personally find this matchup pretty easy took ally to game 5 last stock last hit in a set(non tourney but w/e) so v.v

 

[Nabbitnator]

mario is dumb but by all means beatable. only decent neutral and ok projectile. most of his fireball shenanigans don't even work against peach lol. the only way i lose this matchup is either against ally or when i run into bair like an idiot and that's what you guys should be doing to. don't run into bair if they're spamming it, don't pluck turnips if the mario has a brain, don't and i mean DON'T FLOAT ABOVE HIM AND DAIR. floating above a mario and dair'ing is literal suicide so dont do it if you want to live lmfao. i personally find this matchup pretty easy took ally to game 5 last stock last hit in a set(non tourney but w/e) so v.v

Do you know the frame data for mario's up smash? Idk if it comes out fast enough to punish dair depending on the height that its done.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Mario's upsmash comes out on frame 9. After the last hit of Peach dair, Peach can't do anything for 8 frames. I gonna assume that her dair has about 3 frames of shield stun until I find out the info myself which I might do later. So for now I think this is a safe number to assume. 8-3 = 5 frames mario has to punish you. To upsmash he would have to drop his shield, which takes 7 frames. 5 -7 = +2 frames left he has to punish you. Now that "+" means you have 2 more frames to play with. so w/e attack you do will be 2 frames quickly since you have the advantage here. Just mean you have more time to punish someone. Peach nair is 5 frames. But due to this your nair will come out 2 frames soon before mario can dish out his attack. So it will come out on frame 3 while his attack will come out on frame 9. So in this case, Mario CAN NOT punish your dair. if he does, you messed up your timing. And he got lucky.

Though he does have the option to jump cancel upsmash out of shield. Giving a character the ability to upsmash out of shield and not suffer 7 frames of lag start up.(from shield drop). Test this out and slowing it down it looks like it kills just about all of a characters jump squat frames ( which means the amount of frames a character takes to be airborn before they can do thier next action, like air attack,air dodge, second jump, special move). So if He does this, lets take away that -7 from his options to punish you out of shield. Which gives him back the 5 frame window he has to punish you. Upsmash still not fast enough so no good. This move is NOT an option to punish you AT ALL.

He can also jump cancel up-B which comes out on frame 3. Much faster punish. A Smart Mario would use this option (if they study their frame data that is) which in this case it be best to just space a dair and pull away to bait it, then punish with fair. Or to a spaced Ftilt/dtilt to frame trap him. This is the only thing he has to punish you between dairs and nairs.

Mario can't move for nearly a sec (53 frames) when he shots a fireball. He will lag for about half a sec (at best ) from a short hop fireball. To deal with this is best have a turnip. And be at center stage. Upon launching a fire ball, you can get a snip on marios head. From here you can close the gap between you and him. When facing mario, you have more range then he does. He only wins the range/speed war when his back is turned (Bair). Recommended moves to use in this range:

Ftilt- Hitbox is a lil past the animation and comes out on frame 7. This is good if you think he will come at you grounded or jump in you with nair. Good anti air move.

Spaced fairs- Mario can not jump in at you while you are doing this. If he does not challenge this and stays in shield you can go for shield pressure with Ftilt/dtilt.

Short hop dairs- I dont like this too much UNLESS he stays on shield. This gives mario the change to nair/upair you since they are fast. His upair is frame 4 and nair is frame 3. Peach's dair is 12 frames. So not something to be doing if Mario won't chill on shield. But if he does, you can take advantage of this to keep him in shield longer and drain it. And as long as you can keep the pressure on mario he can't really rely on shield. Giving you the chance to go in and get damage on him. Save this method ONLY IF YOU HAVE HIM SHIELDING.

Now dealing with his bair. It comes out on frame 6. Any move Vs Peach that has this speed and good range is something not to bother challenging. He can bair twice in one short hop. The only safe way to deal with this is with a turnip. You have 2 options. Snipe him on the head with a turnip out of this move. Which is tricky and not something to go for alot. A better method is to punish his landing. When he lands as he does a falling bair, he suffers from 12 frames of landing lag. The best option to punish this is with a turnip (or you can be a jerk and run in with counter before he does the move). That turnip can cause a few things for you to take control of:

- Punish mario on his landing, go in and z grab it and for for a dair pressure or an air/grounded mix up with that turnip you just caught

- Force mario to block since there is a hitbox flying at him. Giving you the chance to close the gap on mario and pressure.

- Counter mario by hitting him out of his jump squat to go for another air attack or hit him out of the start up of his attack.

Being in the air Vs Mario is not something you wanna do alot. Really floating to typical air attacks/approaches. You will leave yourself open or mario will just break away from you getting you know where. Stay mostly grounded when he has lil risk to throw air attacks out. A turnip is best to pin mario down. Really when he is shooting fireballs. Or else it give mario the chance to fire a block, counter you for a grab or get shield pressure, which you have no answer too if he does it correctly.

When he is off stage and tossing out fireballs, you can counter them and hit him for it coming down. Its not safe for mario to do that. After that a SMART mario will just chill out with that, Making it easier to keep him in check off stage. if Mario has to recover at a certain height mid or low level to the ledge, you can get a free counter out of his up-B. Pay close attention to how he has to recover. and if he has a second jump. This is you guide line as to wether to end his stock with counter or go for a ledge trump/pressure.

 

[Bombchu Link]

Can we talk about Link/Ryu/Donkey Kong next?

Peach seems to have a lot of trouble with these matchups because of their range (Especially link) and Priority (Ryu)

 

[Royal_Tea]

Can we talk about Link/Ryu/Donkey Kong next?

Peach seems to have a lot of trouble with these matchups because of their range (Especially link) and Priority (Ryu)

I find these matchups pretty easy overall. Link has better range, but he's so punishable if you play it safe. Ryu is pretty predictable in both the air and the ground. Donkey Kong is probably one of the easier matchups for Peach to do more harder combos consistently. He can be scary in the air, but he has to take some risks to do so (offstage).

 

[Dark.Pch]

Donkey Kong time.

 

[Royal_Tea]

I would say it's 65/35 in Peach's favor.

Peach dominates the neutral game against Donkey Kong. In addition, Donkey Kong has very bad options to recover against Peach. Recovering low can be beaten by a turnip or toad (haven't fully tested the efficiency of this but my guess is it should work). Recovering high can be beaten because DK has a lot of landing lag using all of his aerials and up-B, the only exception might be B-air, but it's rare DK would not be facing the opposite direction to get back on stage.

Peach can also rack up percentages on DK pretty easily because he's so big.

The main problems I think Peach would have would be not getting killed first because DK has more raw power. I think the bottom line is, DK has to take much more risks than Peach- but the reward is there. He has good setups if he can predict Peach's movement.

Recovering low is obviously the better choice. Just look out for DK's B-air and D-air offstage. Those are the only real threat offstage against him. DK can't commit to a big risk offstage unless he has the lead because his recover is slow, punishable, and predictable.

 

[Meru.]

I was a bit busy so I'm late on Mario. Dark.Pch has covered most things but I'd like to add a few things on the Mario match-up:

When he combos you, respect it! Minimize the damage you get and move back as safely as possible. It's important not to get frustrated or overwhelmed: his combos are pretty strong, and if you get hit by it, you will have to accept it, and try to avoid as much extra damage as possible.

Spacing is key, you outrange a lot of his stuff, especially if you stay grounded. Mario has much more trouble with grounded Peach than with an airborne Peach (most characters do actually). His Bair and Uair are fast and hit you out of float easily. Your movement speed is also limited in the air. Having good movement is important in this match-up: you need that speed to move out of his limited range. Most things Peach has outspaces him so use your range to your advantage (Fair, Bair)!

Mario's aerial frame data is very good. His aerials all have little lag when autocanceled properly, Marios will often jab after aerials to avoid getting grabbed. Read the mix-ups and if he likes jabbing, wait for it and punish the grab.

Mario is not a very good killer. His main killing move is Usmash, which hits on frame 9 (so it's fast for such a strong smash) AND has invincibility from frame 9 - 12. It is laggy however, if you shield it you can dash attack him. Mario is taking considerable risk if he uses Usmash at a percent where your dash attack will kill him! If you avoid getting by this attack you can live to pretty high %s. He has a few other killing moves (Bthrow, Bair) but they're not nearly as strong as his Usmash. (If your don't mess up your landings, you will probably not get hit by his Fsmash).

Since his Usmash hits and is invincible on frame 9 it WILL beat Dair to Nair. It's usually not worth doing Dair to Nair when Usmash can kill you. Dair is unpunishable though if you just move away and land (it's -4 on shield Dark.Pch )
---------------------------------------------------

On Donkey Kong... I don't have much match-up experience vs him tbh. When I played good DKs it felt pretty even.

Bair is annoying. Well spaced it's probably not punishable, so he is likely going to use this move a lot. Our Bair competes with his, but sometimes it's better to just let him swing and look for an opening to punish/pluck a turnip/position yourself optimally rather than trying to beat it with Bair/Nair or outspace it with Fair. His Uair is also super good, it's strong, fast and it's invincible. DK loves killing with this move, especially on a floaty character like Peach, so watch out.

Other than Bair and Uair, his killing moves are Bthrow, Utilt (WATCH OUT FOR THIS MOVE IT HAS A LOT OF RANGE ABOVE HIM), Usmash, Dsmash, and his UpB can also kill sometimes. He has a lot of killing moves.

Except for things like Dtilt and Bair a lot of things are pretty unsafe though, I'm pretty sure his tilts can be punished by a dash attack (except for Dtilt). Of course, when thrown out recklessly, his Bair can be punished with your own Bair/Nair/Grab.

UpB is pretty annoying. It's a decent GTFO move since it hits around him and has super armor starting from frame 8. However, it's super unsafe (you can punish it with Usmash) so he's likely not going to throw this out too much. Do not forget to shield all hits!

His Down B is not a move he will be using a lot because you can just float over him and Fair him. His Giant Punch is super strong, has range, super armor and is safe on shield (not on whiff though). This move is really good and it's a real game changer. It's slowish (frame 19) though, and thus somewhat predictable. Know its range and stay out of it in order to avoid it. Also be careful of his headbutt. It does 35 shield damage and almost breaks a full shield! He loves using this when your on platforms especially.

Turnips are useful against him. It allows you to jump safely and give you a tool to poke/pressure him from long range. He doesn't have a projectile or a lot of other long ranged options so having a tool that outranges him and starts your pressure is really helpful!

Lastly, he's pretty big and reeeeally doesn't die, so be patient. Look for that Usmash. He is pretty big so he's one of the easier characters to hit with it.

 

[TDK]

Peach definitely beats DK. He's big, gets comboed easily, and can be gimped easily with turnips. One thing to worry about would be the "ding dong" combo, which can finish you off early if you're not careful.

 

[Meru.]

Since no one has been posting for a while now, I'm going to move to next character, which is Pikachu.

 

[Underhill]

Since we're discussing Pikachu, I'll give my insight on the mu as best as I can since I faced a bunch of Peach players, including a few competitive players. This is me as a Pikachu main so I don't play Peach much.

One, Pikachu does better on the ground than Peach due to superior frame data and having good ground mobility. His small size helps too since the up-air lock combo won't work on him and he can be hard to hit, sometimes. N-air and thunder(depending on certain moves of her frame data) can help combo break out of your stuff, but if he gets predictable with them and you read them, then free punish. Only pull out veggies if you're far away where he can't reach you because Pikachu has good ground speed along QA and will punish you if he catches you.
You want to mix up your approaches as much as you can with QFR, JCFF, float, aerials, and trots and be unpredictable so he doesn't get in for free. While Pikachu's approaches and mobility are better than your, he can't challenge her air game because her aerials can either out-prioritize or out-range him since he has a low range moveset so he has to respect them and find a opening with baits and mindgames along with his own approaches. Jolts aren't as threatening if you're floating because your aerials like f-air and b-air can hit through them and if he's close and does in with your f-air ready, then he'll get hit out of the endlag(not as big as Mario's fireballs); However, he can use the full jump-jolt to bait an option from or try to get you out of your float if you're not on the ground so fall fast down and power-shield. Combos still work as usual, but he's light though so he won't get combed any easier than you can since Peach is taller; Plus, look out for the thunder or n-air(less effective combo-breakers than Luigi's or Mario's), like I said.

Your up-airs beat out any low-ranged aerial that Pikachu throws out since its disjointed. Be careful with your landings because Pikachu is fast enough to catch them, you're floaty, and you don't want to get up-smashed or get hit with any mix up that he throws out so mix up with floating and double jump to land safely and only land with spaced aerials if must; Do not try to land on him and attack him on the down or else, you'll be eating damage because that's what they're looking for and Peach's light and floaty. B-air, f-air, and n-air(trade maybe) if spaced correctly can beat out quick attack if you get a read and he starts getting predictable with them. Pikachu's up-tile and up-air are good anti-air moves if you screw up on your spacing with aerials. Plus, he can juggle you with up-tiles and up-airs so I would try to mix up your di and maybe float out of them.Your up-tile and up-smash are slow and not as useful since he can QA away from you and land safely, but only useful for hard reads so instead, use veggies or other mix ups and bait out his landings and put him in a bad position for no reaction if you can for a punish.
Off-stage and even though your recovery is good, you still have to be careful on how you recover because of Pikachu crazy and superior edgeguarding tools. His d-air may trade with your up-b which is bad of course because he'll try to hit you out of your recovery. If you space and timed your f-air for the skull bash, then you can hit him out of it for a early ko or so. Be careful of his off-stage thunder because if you get drag down by the cloud to get spiked down, then you're finished. However, if he does off-stage thunder after grabbing the ledge once, then you can d-air him for a stage spike if possible. Pikachu is harder to gimp than Peach so don't challenge him off-stage and just be prepare to read ledge options and QAs for you to punish while pressuring and even getting out veggies while the chance is given. Ledge trump to b-air if needed along with ledge punishes such as down-smash, d-airs, golf-club, and down-tile. Pikachu can do the same, but ledge trump to b-air maybe.
Both of you have problems so take of rage, his light weight, and his weakness of getting kos, but don't force in your kills at the same time as well because he isn't easy to punish with low lag attacks, don't throw laggy attacks, be patient, force in error, put pressure, and the kill will come to you. Both can pressure each other as well.

This mu I consider even for Pikachu and Peach.

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, the Olimar sub-forum is discussing the Peach match-up. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Meru.]

Sorry for my inactivity lately, I have been very busy this past week.

I'm not very satisfied with the discussion on Pikachu anyhow, we'll get back to him later. Any suggestions for the next match-up discussion? Otherwise I'm just going to pick a random character again.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Uuuh..... Pacman I think that's interesting.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hm.... Seems you got a healthy matchup discussion. Awesome!

I'll be brief. I'm from the Charizard discussion boards and we are currently talking about the Peach vs Charizard matchup.

http://smashboards.com/threads/charizard-matchup-discussion-peach.424720/

We'd love it if you came over and talked with us about him. We want to hear your thoughts.




As for Peach vs Pac-Man? I think Pac might win that. I'm no Peach main but even with her fancy float and crazy maneuvers, it's rather hard to find a place that can't be dealt with a Pac projectile. I feel this matchup will rely on fighting through a wall to reach the dot muncher.

Do turnips clash with Pac-Man's fruit?

 

[wedl!!]

I basically never play good Pacs so I don't know much about this mu. :/

some things I'd note:
-holding Pacman's fruits make it so he can't spawn another one, and Peach is the only character who can attack with an item in-hand.
-from what I can assume edgeguarding Pac isn't even worth it considering most characters can't do it anyways
-it's not hard to get walled, you have to pull out a lot of tricks to do well in this mu (grab a lot of fruit)

 

[Bombchu Link]

-holding Pacman's fruits make it so he can't spawn another one, and Peach is the only character who can attack with an item in-hand.

Actually Zdropping an item and then immediately performing an aerial words as well, though of course we can just float.

I don't know much about Pacman really, Except you want to have his fruit in your hand at all times like the ROB and diddy mu.

Playing Pacman is basically "oh yeah play your character the way you do, just don't get checkmated by his shenanigans and respect the hydrant".