Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

[Dark.Pch]

Good Idea yaay. We will start with Mario on monday.

 

[CNMNE]

Good Idea yaay. We will start with Mario on monday.

Oh thank RNGesus, I can't stand our husband and his u-air

 

[Meru.]

Good Idea yaay. We will start with Mario on monday.

What about Sheik and Sonic? I know you have already written an excellent write-up on those match-ups, but I'd like people to also personally discuss and share their opinions on match-ups. You can do Mario first of course, but I wouldn't skip these two.

 

[FennerGuy1992]

I would say at least that Peach has an okay matchup with Sonic as long as you continue using neutral B, I guess.
Her best matchup in my opinion is Little Mac. I think I got a video of it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'll brings those characters up at a later time.

 

[ZoneDemon]

Alright, I don't have that much info right now but I'll be doing some experimenting in training mode tonight. One tip thatdo have for Mario though is concerning his DThrow UTilt combo. I believe if you hold up on the control stick you will be able float out of it if he doesn't do the tilts quickly enough. If it doesn't, well at least you DI away faster and take less damage. Will be posting more on this MU tomorrow.

 

[XinShot]

Hmmmmm Mario

I don't think this match up is terrible, but it's not exactly great either.

We get out of Dthrow UTilt pretty quickly

Fireballs are almost no threat, i personally will nair bair or fair them if Mario approaches

Our Uair beats out pretty much everything he has when Mario is in the air

Tornado has extra hit boxes on land usually so timing against that is super important

Peach's biggest weakness in this match up is probably Mario's speed and his recovery which makes it hard for us to gimp him and also kill him. Cape on turnips can also be an issue. Cape on attacks aren't as much of a problem, sometimes cape will send you towards Mario when floating if you input backwards in time which can lead to an attack.

That dash attack he has works well if we're floating so a lot of this match up is mixing up movement, especially to avoid getting killed.

I think Peach does better on the ground versus floating a lot in this match up because Mario has quick aerials and this can cause it to be a spacing game, which (I think) Peach can out range most of of his moves.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Be on the look out for Up Smash all the time - the hitbox is massive, it hits hard and to top it all off Mario's head is invincible which allows him to cut through Dairs and Fairs.

Perfect shield will stop Fireballs and you can also attack through them (on the odd occasion I've Fair'd through a fireball and hit Mario as well!). Watch out for follow ups! The problem with Fireballs is not so much the fireball itself but whatever it is Mario decides to follow up with (if you've shielded the fireball, expect a Down Smash or Grab).

I will try and add more at a later date - the key to this match up is having a very solid punish game and being especially diligent when it comes to spacing Fairs/Floating Fairs.

 

[Macchiato]

http://smashboards.com/threads/set-ph1r3-to-the-rain-roy-matchup-discussion-peach-rosalinda-zss-6-29-15-7-15-15.406195/

We are now discussing Rosalina and Luma. Please come join us and add your input. Add fuel to the ph1r3, but remember to keep it Civil.

 

[MJN Pilot]

We have a really good edgeguard on Mario. Z-dropping a turnip really stings for him since his up-b is so predictable. We seem to be able to punish him well, but his neutral is way stronger than ours.

 

[XinShot]

z dropping needs to be spaced and timed well since he can up B right through a turnip and can possibly knick you on the way up

 

[Meru.]

My two cents before we move on the the next character:

Mario's aerials have little lag, it's hard to punish them on reaction. Instead of trying to punish his aerials, concentrating on his landings will usually lead to better punishes. If you want to battle him in the air, Fair outspaces pretty much everything he has in the air and Bair can beat his aerials, but since his aerials come out fast and their range is pretty decent (especially Bair), you will find yourself getting beaten often. I would only recommed air battles when you're sure you will be outspacing him. Well spaced Fairs can keep in check very well.

Usmash is your biggest enemy. Its range is HUGE and it kills super early. There's some risk on it though: it's punishable by Dash Attack on shield. Other than that, there's his Fsmash (watch out where your land!!), Uair, Bair and Bthrow. Mario is not that great of a killer, you can live pretty long.

Marios like to jump high and above you, leaving them open to Uairs. Of course, always look for a chance to get that Usmash in.

Be careful when he Dthrows your near the edge. If you don't DI away, Dthrow > Fair is guaranteed and will kill at very low percents!

Accept that you will get combo'd, be patient when trying to escape and mix-up how you're escaping tactics: mix-up your DI, airdodge, second jump, Nair etc. It's really important you minimize his damage output on his strings, or else he'll be in a percent lead all the time.

Be patient with Fireballs. Walking is a good option vs his Fireballs or floating somewhere where he cant reach or corner you. Also be careful of what he does after the Fireball or else you'll get hit after shielding. Sometimes, they mess up their fireball, giving you enough time to do an Usmash OoS or Nair OoS.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Gonna have sheiked talked about again.

 

[EOE]

The Sheik match-up is very uphill for Peach because of how difficult Sheik is to punish. It's very dangerous vs Sheik to whiff anything, float in neutral or pull a turnip because of how fast Sheik's punishes are with aerials, needles and dash attack.

Both characters combo each other well, due to Sheik's light-weight, fast-faller traits. I don't know what the best way to DI Sheik's F-air strings is - most likely up and away (can someone confirm?). You should always jump out of Sheik's D-throw to avoid the 50/50 mix-up she creates with her D-throw > U-air.

Peach's combos are more difficult to set-up, but they are much more rewarding, in my opinion. This is partly because it is easier to kill with Peach than it is with Sheik, but also because Peach's early % combos vs Sheik can lead to a U-air lock with the correct mix-ups, which is basically a 0-death.

Some mixups I use which can lead to a U-air lock:

• D-throw > ground float U-air spike (this is not guaranteed, but can be performed when you have conditioned your opponent to the usual D-throw > F-tilt true combo. If Sheik jumps out of D-throw, she will escape the combo. If she air-dodges, she will land with lag, that can be punished with another ground float U-air)
• D-tilt > U-air spike (true combo)
• D-air > U-air spike (true combo)

Using ground float U-air spike as an anti-air is really good in every match-up, in my opinion. Try using it instead of U-tilt in order to force your opponent into a mix-up. The U-air lock itself is simply U-air spike > footstool > repeat. This can be performed on every mid-height to tall character, with some variations).

Another great tool Peach can use in this match-up is her Up-B. Surprisingly, I find myself using Up-B a lot to trade with Sheik's aerials, which can lead to very early % kills when performed correctly.

Spoiler

You can also use N-air to trade, because, like Sheik's F-air, it comes out on frame 5.

Turn-around Up-B also seems to be the optimal punish OOS when Sheik mis-spaces any aerials or Bouncing Fish.

Edge-guarding vs Sheik is also relatively good due to float. With practice, it is very easy to N-air Sheik back off-stage when she is recovering to the ledge with Up-B. It's very important to know the correct time to N-air when she reappears - practise this in Training Mode.

When recovering vs Sheik, it's almost always better to go low and recover with Up-B. If you are able to air-dodge through a poorly spaced F-air, you can punish with B-air. Use Toad off-stage to stall and turn-around if you want to force your way back on stage with B-airs. Also be aware that air-dodging off-stage is very risky as Sheik can use this to bait and punish.

Overall, I think this match-up is one of Peach's most difficult. It's really important to watch your opponent's patterns and the options they use so that you know when to float, shield and attack. In order to win this match-up, Peach needs to take advantage of her good edge-guarding and early % kills vs Sheik.

 

[pokio55]

Up away sheiks fair is the best way to DI
If I count as a confirm since I am a sheik main

 

[adlp]

@ EOE you are baller. are you gonna be at EVO?

 

[Skyfox2000]

So i am wanting to main Peach. Any advice? I normally main and and i want to start using


Also who would be her good/bad matchup? You all already may of talked about it already but im too lazy to read it lol

 

[EOE]

@ EOE you are baller. are you gonna be at EVO?

I wish. =(
I don't think my Peach is quite ready yet and travelling to the US would be a pretty big investment for me!

 

[Dark.Pch]

Moving on to sonic

 

[ZeroSnipist]

Hey Peach players! We from the Ryu boards are making a doubles thread. The purpose of the thread is to find the best partner for Ryu. I'm going to invite as many people I can at once and get discussions going on all at once. We invite you to our dojo and hope you could help us discuss Peach and Ryu in doubles. Thank you in advance!

Forgive me for posting this here, since this the most active thread out of all the other sticky threads

 

[Tha_Crystal_Gemz]

Can anyone give me advice about ROB, please? I don't think anything about this match up is advantageous for Peach.

I try to rush in, I get pushed out by lasers and grabs. I can quick float all day, he will use his lasers and the reflector. When it is out, I try to grab it and hold on to it as long as I can but that can only work for so long (only one can be on the field, correct?) I use my nairs and they are beaten by his nairs etc. I make use of toad and that kinda works, but in the end, I lose. Help would be appreciated.

 

[TheWorstMuppet]

Ahoy hoy Mushroom Kingdom Royals! The Duck Hunt Boards are currently discussing the Peach match-up right now and we'd love to hear from you! If you have any advice or thoughts you'd like to give, please click down below! Thank you!
http://smashboards.com/threads/sic-...mega-man-ness-and.379294/page-6#post-19695014

Also, Dog Turnip--

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

For Sheik, you absolutely want to be using well spaced Bairs to combat her aerials and rushing ground approaches. Just watch out for Bouncing Fish or a running Up Smash.


The Peach-Sonic MU is in Sonic's favour. He's received very notable buffs in Smash 4 and Peach's diminished hitboxes and new aerial landing lag don't help matters.

Learn to recognise the difference between Side B and Down B:
- If Sonic is charging Side B, he'll curl into a ball and move backwards as he charges. This move can be cancelled into shield unless it is fully charged or cancelled via a jump (with Sonic still in the ball). Upon release, Sonic performs a little hop above the ground and then zooms along the ground upon landing.

- If Sonic is charging Down B, he'll curl into a ball and stay in place as he's charging. This requires the player to repeatedly press B and everytime they do, Sonic will charge the spindash. This spindash is very much like how you charge a spin dash in the Mega Drive games i.e. with each charge, Sonic will flash and you'll hear the KEE KEE KEE sound. This spindash CANNOT be cancelled into shield and does not hop upon release

Arguably the 'bread and butter' Sonic move is to Spindash -> connect -> jump + aerial -> start Spindash again in opposite direction as landing -> repeat. If you get hit by this, watch where you're landing so you don't get hit again! If you shield this, be prepared to follow where he moves/jumps - this is the perfect opportunity to punish with a Fair or Bair.

As the match plays out, Sonic will undoubtedly start mixing things up so stay on your toes...

Two moves in particular to watch out for:

- Homing Attack. Floating Dairs will cut through spindashes on the ground so it is tempting to use lots of Floating in this MU. This isn't a bad idea but you need to be very cautious of Homing Attack as it is a very solid option for Sonic to knock you out of Float and will smack you of Floating Dairs (and can trade hits with Nair). It's also tricky to punish on shield

- Up Smash. Like Homing Attack, Sonic can catch you out by surprise if you get predictable and overcommit to your Floating/aerial game. This move is particularly scary because it can KO Peach (at 100%ish? with rage I think).

Turnips aren't very useful in this MU (don't pull a Turnip at the start of the match because Sonic is fast enough to punish you for it). Nair can knock him out of aerials/spindashes (spindashes are quite tricky this time around because Peach no longer has a hitbox on her feet for Nair). Spaced Fairs/Bairs can be used to combat aerial/ground approaches (watch out for Bair and its range). Watch out for any Spring -> Dair happy Sonic's and punish accordingly as they land. Watch where you land if he's charging up an F Smash - sometimes it's best to avoid the move altogether rather than being tempted into trying to Fair him only mess up and get KO'ed early (I think this move is nicknamed 'hypno-smash' and there's a good reason why...).


I'll add more at some point if I have time. This match mostly boils down to punishing Sonic and going in hard when you have the chance. Sonic is very difficult to catch (unsurprisingly!).

 

[Rucent]

Perfect timing! The Sonic MU thread is currently discussing about Peach. Here's the link to get to the thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/soni...-chapter-12-peach.390575/page-7#post-19711379

 

[Razmakazi]

Peach sonic is 6/4 peach's favor.

Sonic can't really do much if Peach either stands still or approaches with sh dair or float dair. You just have to be patient, and if your shield is low then just float or dj away from him. Sonic doesn't really have safe approaches vs peach. Tons of mix-ups, just tons. But nothing that you can't beat with shield or dair. If possible, grab a turnip. That'll help you get oos options vs sonic and it'll help you juggle him or harass his landing. But you basically wanna beat his spindash with dair, then get massive damage vs his landing options. So float nair his landings or sh dair his landings.

Sonic, again, has hella mix-ups. But shield beats everything, which is why sonics have to play lame. Even if they grab you they don't have too much guaranteed stuff out of grab, and since Bthrow is nerfed (still strong, but nerfed nonetheless) they can't really kill you off of a grab either.

The best thing you can do is play patiently, harass him with dair. Well, Buffered SH dair so you can hit confirm into a fair combo or dj dair to whatever. And if you have him at the edge then perfect. That's where you can hit him with sh dair mixups into grabs or tilts or whatever.

Don't even bother trying to kill him unless he's at the edge. But if you want to go for the jank early kill, then have racket ready if he's camping out one edge of the stage. Or if you have a bigger stage then have the pan ready for the ceiling kill. But don't really think you're gonna hit sonic with lucky smashes.

Oh, and if he counters your float with fair or bair, who cares. Just beat him with your own bair, or bait it and grab the landing. At any rate, it's a war of attrition, but a defensive Peach will give sonic hell. Shield the spindash, aerial punish his jump. Or if he doesn't jump and rolls back instead then just smash him.

And edgeguard with turnips! Just throw them straight down at him and then float dair the edge. If you want to be risky, you can drop down and dj bair/nair his recovery, but if you miss he may bair you himself or spring you or some such jank.

Just be careful! Be careful! And please don't hide in shield! Move, move, move, or stand still and react. But don't sit in shield, and always threaten with either a turnip or a float or dair or something. That's all lol

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so gurls its that time again for some good tea with the Zeldas if you don't mind

http://smashboards.com/threads/albd-re-zelda-matchup-redisscussion-topic-peach.410787/#post-19744099

 

[LumaBeest55]

Hola amigos.

can i like interrupt dis post 2 challenge jank peech [dark.pch] 2 a $100 money match at N University in New York City on august 5th??
rules don't matta cuz i will be usin Yoshi and will b using dash attk bruh.

u may finish ya discussion every1 srrry

 

[pokio55]

EOE posted a video for the zelda MU. Here it is... http://youtu.be/9cO-xR8ID6U

 

[JigglyZelda003]

EOE posted a video for the zelda MU. Here it is... http://youtu.be/9cO-xR8ID6U

i already saw this video of poor maxy getting dragged around the stage lol

 

[pokio55]

i already saw this video of poor maxy getting dragged around the stage lol

LMAO yup

 

[HoodsxX]

All good info on MU's.At OP if you vould one day though take the time to proofread your work after this is done (Sonic week erc). That would be greatly appreciated as there are some things that are hard to read and understand. Other than that great write up. ^^

 

[Dark.Pch]

We are gonna kill many birds with one stone. I am gonna use all the peach topics from other threads u are in and then compile it here when I get to the OP. That way we wont have to do talk about it here and we can get more done.

Also ness time.

 

[Luco]

Ohai ^_^

I haven't played this MU in so long, so I'll probably help facilitate discussion and whatnot. From what I've been hearing and feeling I think we believe it's reasonably even. Peach can be really difficult to punish and catch for the kill (I think she's a case where we kill with aerials more often than with Bthrow)

Fair is so great. So are like, all of your aerials, incidentally. I dunno... Stuff. <3

 

[Nabbitnator]

This is from my experience
On stage
- Peach has to watch for ness' approaches which can be from side b, dash grab, retreating or regular fairs, and nair.
- We can punish Ness' fair with a turnip, float over side b, and space with nair or bair against him.
- What peach really needs to look out for is Ness has a good dash grab that leads into bthrow which can lead to an early death, decsending up air which can possibly kill, his powerful bair and up air because since we are floaty he can kind of dictate where we can land with it to set up a kill.
- Also becareful with dair as he can air us out of shield, but spacing with bair is a good option since it is safe on shield when properly spaced.


Off stage
- He's weak off stage as he has his double jump, up b, to get back then nair and fair to swat people away when they approach him. If he loses his double jump he is in a bit of trouble.
- Turnips are a good way to force ness to lose a jump or air dodge and then we can capitalize on it with nair, fair, bair or even another turnip to close a stock.
- A great way to punish Ness if he doesn't ride the walls of the stage with up b is to use toad against it. That can lead to some early kills if and when he is forced to recover low. (I do recommend learning the timing for it as it is very useful.)
-When we are off stage we need to watch out for his up b since it can be used to stage spike or like earlier, limit our options off stage.
-Recovering low is the best option but be careful with his up b.
-He can hit us with a bair, or try to go for fairs off stage.

From my experience the match up is even. Both peach and ness have the tools to deal with each other. Ness has easy options on stage to kill peach early if she makes a few mistakes and Peach shines off stage where ness has a hard time recovering. It's mostly about not over extending yourself. Getting too aggressive and being unaware with peach will allows ness to get some criminally low percent kills.

Ohai ^_^

I haven't played this MU in so long, so I'll probably help facilitate discussion and whatnot. From what I've been hearing and feeling I think we believe it's reasonably even. Peach can be really difficult to punish and catch for the kill (I think she's a case where we kill with aerials more often than with Bthrow)

Fair is so great. So are like, all of your aerials, incidentally. I dunno... Stuff. <3

Welcome to the peach forum's by the way.

 

[BlueberrySyrup]

I definitely think it's even or MAYBE slightly in her favor. I don't have enough matchup experience to make that call though, I feel like our PK Thunder really allows us to keep Peach from abusing the air TOO much... I definitely don't think either character is at a "disadvantage", if it were it would only be slight.

Just my input. I also feel like PK Fire isnt very useful in this matchup.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Op getting a full update 2morrow finally.

 

[Dark.Pch]

OP fixed. I added luigi to the mix. 2morrow I will add falcon. Also check out the edgeguard section I shiek, I put some interesting things there that could help kill this *****.

What character people want to talk about next?

 

[Nabbitnator]

Let's go over the Pikachu match up.

 

[DavemanCozy]

We're discussing princess Petch vs Fux Mcleod

vs

http://smashboards.com/threads/all-...sion-thread-peach-king-dedede-pac-man.393061/

 

[Noa.]

Ok so not many people participated in the Ness matchup discussion so I'll throw in my input.

This matchup is in Ness's favor. By your standards I would say 60:40, or +2 for Ness.

Ness and Peach have good tools to combat each other in the neutral. Turnips can be annoying enough for Ness and peach's dash attack also helps her catch Ness if he is doing too many empty short hops. Ness's fair is an incredibly potent anti air. If you commit to doing any aerial Ness can easily beat it by fairing. Sticking to turnips is important in the Ness matchup because they restrict the ways in which he can jump and aerial. It's very important to limit Ness options in the air, cause that's the key to beating Ness in the neutral. So use a bunch of turnips and try to anticipate those aerials.

If you get hit by pk Fire just try your best to jump out of it. Floaty characters should jump out of pk Fire and fast fallers should shield and roll out of it.

Pk Thunder harass is super effective against peach. Floaty characters have trouble returning to stage against the pk Thunder. If the Ness player is trying to directly hit you with the head of Pk Thunder, peach can do it quite well. Do nair if it's going to hit you head on, dair if it's coming from below, and Bair and uair from the back and above respectively. However Ness can bait out Peach's aerial, hit her with the tail, and then wrap the head back into her. She can get stuck for quite a while if the Ness is good at pk thunders. Each Pk Thunder does like 8% so your damage can wrack up very quickly.

When Ness is recovering you can be aggressive against him offstage. Confronting him directly offstage is hard because Ness will just nair or fair you if you try to fair him. Just focus on setting up the ledge for him. Use turnips and use fsmash, dash attack, and grab to cover his ledge options. I think this is a very hard part of the matchup for Ness.

You should also try to catch Ness's landings with Usmash. Ness usually likes to land with an aerial, but your Usmash beats our aerials cause of its disjointed hitbox and your invincible hands. It's a good way for Peach to land a kill in this matchup.

Thus far the matchup seems pretty evenish, and I agree. But the reason why I think Ness wins is because of the disparity in killing.

Peach is not bad at killing by any means, but the difference between her and Ness is quite large. Peach is significantly lighter than Ness. Landing uair on a floating peach is easy. The arc on uair will go around peach's dair, uair's hitbox is bigger than peach's nair, and it comes out faster than peach's fair. I'm not saying it's like a free aerial to land, but if Peach is in the air it's not hard to land uair at all. Peach is also not difficult to grab and bthrow unless she has a turnip in hand. So if ness is able to approach Peach without a turnip and she's at high percent, there's a good chance she'll die.

It's not as easy for Peach to Kill Ness. She can land a dash attack pretty reliably, but that doesn't kill until 140 or 150. Usmash kills and isn't that hard to land on Ness, but if she misses it she can get punished with a grab or uair and Peach is dead. Fair is obviously incredibly strong but that requires a hard read offstage. This is why I feel matchup is distinctly in Ness's favor. I just wanted to share my opinion. I've played against a couple of decent Peaches in my scene, and I'll ask them to post here.