Meta Peach Match-Up Thread : Cloud/bayo/Falcon/Yoshi/Ness/G&W

[Nabbitnator]

I'll try to post something for luigi. That match is definitely not 80:20.

 

[deepseadiva]

Oh you know what, I think I have a tournament match from the other week. Peach vs Yoshi: http://www.twitch.tv/cosmash/b/648754127?t=105m

Critique would be appreciated. And at least it's a launching point for discussion.

 

[adlp]

the twitch vod is really laggy man i dont know if it's just for me or not but it's unwatchable

 

[deepseadiva]

Ick, your right.

Well, at least now you won't really see that part where I get jab locked x 8 into ****ing fsmash.

 

[Nabbitnator]

I find that you really have to just wait out luigi in this match. Its sooo annoying.

 

[Dark.Pch]

arent people suppose to be talking about Yoshi?

 

[LightningLuxray]

Rickerdy-Doo-Da or w/e his name is kind summed up the match up. It seems you have to shield eggs on the approach, then either throw a turnip, dash attack, or try to land some sort of aerial. Mixing up with jumps can also be effective.

It seems like killing is the major hurdle in this MU... even if you're playing on point and are racking up good damage, it can be hard to land that fair / smash attack if Yoshi's camping / playing generally safe. Like others have mentioned, super armor double jump also makes edgeguarding extremely difficult, meaning we lose what would have been one of our best kill options.

Basically respect Yoshi and what he can do, play decently safe, and don't be predictable, as it'll be the death of you. At higher percent, try to find a way to get the kill without getting greedy.

 

[Nabbitnator]

You're gonna have to make him give up that super jump in a way before the fair from my experience. Its still rather difficult to gimp him though. A simple plan that works for him is to wait to see what he does. He's quick but his moves are punishable when shielded. (I have class in a bit so i'll be back later with some info.)

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

You're gonna have to make him give up that super jump in a way before the fair from my experience. Its still rather difficult to gimp him though. A simple plan that works for him is to wait to see what he does. He's quick but his moves are punishable when shielded. (I have class in a bit so i'll be back later with some info.)

But it's easy to accidently let go of your shield on his multi hitting moves and stuff.

Btw does anyone know how fast each of his ariels come out

 

[deepseadiva]

But it's easy to accidently let go of your shield on his multi hitting moves and stuff.

Btw does anyone know how fast each of his ariels come out

Good idea. Here's his frame data thread.

Notable **** we have to deal with:

Jab: 3
Nair: 3
Uair: 5
Dsmash: 7
Usmash: 11
Fsmash: 14

vs


Jab: 2 (yay we win)
Nair: 5
Bair: 6
Dsmash: 6
Dash Attack: 6
Fsmash: ???
Usmash: 14
Fair: 16

Can somebody get on that fsmash frame data for real. Otherwise... this looks... alright... We're going to have that hard time killing since ours do not come out at the same time his does. What's scary is that he can throw out uair and at best we'll trade with nair. ICK. On the ground, we can mostly win though, which is rare thing! Jab is going to win us a lot of up-close battles, while dsmash, and even dash attack make sure we're not eating smashes allthetimeeverytime.

Getting past eggs though is what makes me not want to choose Peach though. She has to struggle through them like Ganondorf, or ask him to stop, pull a turnip, and then move forward. I'm not really about that life.

But if she does get in, she seems to have an ok time. :O

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Doesn't Fsmash come out on frame 13?
And ty BTW..... Ugh characters who have so little lag in their attacks sickens me(Mario shiek....)

 

[Meru.]

IMO like many Peach match-ups this match-up depends on whom is the most patient. Peach is slow and air approaches get stuffed really easy by eggs so rushing him like you're Rambo is usually not the best option.

I find Yoshi the most dishonest character in the game in that almost everything he has and does makes you think "what the **** were the developers thinking". Yoshi does not seem to have one definitive weakness. Because of this he's probably also the characters that pisses people of the most.

However, if you stay patient and keep your head cool, you'll discover he has more weaknesses than you would have thought. His eggs are predictable from far away and punishable from up close. All of his smashes are punishable with dash attack (don't do a running usmash, they're not that laggy). His landings are more punishable than you would think with turnips or by floating above him and then Fair his head. He's pretty big too so look for that Usmash. While he's not an awful killer, he has more trouble with it than you would be thinking if you don't get hit by his smashes or Uair.

While I can't say you shouldn't go in the air at all I would be careful with when you choose to go in the air. Definitely do not go in the air when you're far from him because he can egg you for free. Up close he is much more hesitant to use his eggs you but his aerials are good for hitting you out of your float. Floating above is head is not a bad option but don't stay floating there for a long time: do it fast or else he will hit you of your float. Our Bair and Nair are also really good because they're fast and challenge his faster aerials such as his Nair. When he's not close enough to Nair, also be prepared for his Fair. Like ours it has some considerable start-up so it's telegraphed but it's generally safe when spaced.

REALLY watch your landings. I don't find Yoshi a fantastic landing punisher but if you're not careful you'll get Usmashed. Also, avoid that Uair while landing. If he's under you, don't try to challenge him too much. His Uair has great vertical range, is strong and decently fast. The risk-reward is heavily skewed in his favor. If you manage to airdodge/ avoid it once though, you should be saved unless you try to go and challenge him.

I have heard many peopel say that even relatively bad Yoshi's can give them a lot of trouble. I can sympathize with that since I feel if you're impatient or get annoyed by his stuff quickly, you'll start approaching very unsafely and Yoshi is the king of destroying unsafe approaches.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

The key to kills in this matchup is aggressive edgeguarding. You have to really rush him down when he recovers. Especially if he hasn't reset his eggs, you need to rush it down like nobody's business. He will always go for a fair to defend himself if you try aggressive edgeguarding (from far away he'll throw eggs) , so if you can beat him to the fair, he will get hit hard. It is a bit risky, but they both come out on the same frame, so as long as you press fair before he goes, you will win. Not only that but Yoshi's extends his hurtbox when he fairs, meaning you can challenge it head on more than you think with your own fair.

While it's hard to "gimp" yoshi, become of his recovery you can predict where he will go and rack up a ton of damage before he makes it back to the stage. I get most my damage on Yoshi while he's trying to get back on the stage.

Personally, I find this matchup not that bad, but it's probably because I use Yoshi and know him even better than Peach right now.

You need to play defensively. You also have to bait out his nairs in his attempt to combo break, and punish it hard. Yoshi's weakness is also when he lands. Attack him as he is landing. The only landing mix up he can really do is wavebounce egg lay. Everything else leaves him open as he lands. Try to get in a position where you can punish him after he lands from aerials.

The matchup does become a lot harder if he egg camps a lot. There's no easy way to get around them. You gotta be quick and read where he is throwing them. This part is definitely not easy. I do find that shielding eggs and counter throwing a turnip does help.

Yoshi's weaknesses are just radically different from other characters weaknesses. If you play as him for 3 to 4 months, they will become pretty glaring.

 

[DrROBschiz]

How fast is Yoshis Fair again? Could you offstage pressure with Nair since its fast and has good knockback?

 

[Genome Squirrel]

don't forget yoshi's fair can spike, i'd caution against getting within nair range.

 

[GwJ]

Hi, the ROB board is discussing the matchup: http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-15-peach.401046/

 

[DiNoahsaur]

How do we deal with Fox? I've been against some really aggressive Fox players that I've had trouble shaking the pressure off....

 

[adlp]

i think fox is one of the matchups where you can use toad more liberally imo, iirc it procs on laser and the air stall to escape juggling is great.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Well, seems people stated a lot of good things on Yoshi. I'll say my short Peach of it.

Its best to move in slowly with turnip in hand. If you are in range when Yoshi tosses a egg and shield it, you can punish him with a turnip and then start your offense. You Really wanna limit your air game here. Only go for on when you have him on shied, rolling. Getting hit with eggs is where he starts his BS.

When you get near Yoshi, do no go for an attack. See what he does. Some might try to go for pivot grab. W/e he wants to do, you have to see what. When you go near a play, they think you will attack. So just stayin range and wait. Then if possible, toss the turnip at him and go on the offense if he throws out a move.

Low recovers are the best against Yoshi but be careful with those. He is one of the better characters can you well for low recoveries.

I will do a full write up on Yoshi (and diddy). But if there is nothing else, what character you guys wanna move on too?

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Well, seems people stated a lot of good things on Yoshi. I'll say my short Peach of it.

Its best to move in slowly with turnip in hand. If you are in range when Yoshi tosses a egg and shield it, you can punish him with a turnip and then start your offense. You Really wanna limit your air game here. Only go for on when you have him on shied, rolling. Getting hit with eggs is where he starts his BS.

When you get near Yoshi, do no go for an attack. See what he does. Some might try to go for pivot grab. W/e he wants to do, you have to see what. When you go near a play, they think you will attack. So just stayin range and wait. Then if possible, toss the turnip at him and go on the offense if he throws out a move.

Low recovers are the best against Yoshi but be careful with those. He is one of the better characters can you well for low recoveries.

I will do a full write up on Yoshi (and diddy). But if there is nothing else, what character you guys wanna move on too?

Zelda, jiggly, Kirby please
But I wannado Zelda most

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Good to know something is still happening here

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

If we do move on it's probably best to move onto a high tier character like Luigi or Sonic? Or maybe Ness...or Mario?

 

[deepseadiva]

Something I've seen other boards do is make new threads for every matchup and then we link to those threads here in a directory.

The advantage of doing that is we can talk about each match-up there, and it doesn't bother what ever "weekly" discussion is happening. The disadvantage of that is we will need 50 new threads. xD

 

[Dark.Pch]

If we do move on it's probably best to move onto a high tier character like Luigi or Sonic? Or maybe Ness...or Mario?

I already did a write up for sonic on the first post.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I already did a write up for sonic on the first post.

I requested Zelda or Kirby though, anything to say about them.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I Just usually have people post there thoughts on who to talk about next and vote. If we cant tally up anything, then I will just pick a character I feel should be brought up next.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Um........I'm really starting to think your actually ignoring me?
I requested some characters but I guess Zelda is who I recommend most(or want)

Nobody else seems to request

 

[Dark.Pch]

Im not ignoring you. You need to be a lil more patient. Just cause you said a character does not mean Im straight gonna go to it. I wait and see what others say. You are not the only one that post here. W/e is the most requested character is the one we talk about next.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Im not ignoring you. You need to be a lil more patient. Just cause you said a character does not mean Im straight gonna go to it. I wait and see what others say. You are not the only one that post here. W/e is the most requested character is the one we talk about next.

I meant as in if you actually read my comment, I CAN wait, I just wanted to be sure it was being read, and I get how it goes......

 

[adlp]

ROB or ness are good next imo

 

[CNMNE]

What should I do to lead into an Up Smash? I know Peach's up smash is really good now, but I find myself going with aerials much more often. I try jump canceling it, but Peach's slide on it isn't too great so I generally only land it with really, REALLY hard reads. Is that normal?

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

What should I do to lead into an Up Smash? I know Peach's up smash is really good now, but I find myself going with aerials much more often. I try jump canceling it, but Peach's slide on it isn't too great so I generally only land it with really, REALLY hard reads. Is that normal?

I mean, its lackluster horizontal range does hurt it, so I wouldnt rely on it too often, really mostly against Ariel foes if anything.

 

[PeachBooty]

What should I do to lead into an Up Smash? I know Peach's up smash is really good now, but I find myself going with aerials much more often. I try jump canceling it, but Peach's slide on it isn't too great so I generally only land it with really, REALLY hard reads. Is that normal?

Dthrow > Bait Air Dodge > Run Under > Charged Up Smash. Only do this after doing Dthrow > Bair multiple times. A lot of people will try to spam air dodge after Peach's Dthrow then. It's the kind of thing that only really works once in a match, but it's really good for clutching out a close match.

 

[Douchuumen]

Sorry that this is off topic, but does Peach lose to Sheik?

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Sorry that this is off topic, but does Peach lose to Sheik?

Slight, but its still duoable

 

[CNMNE]

Dthrow > Bait Air Dodge > Run Under > Charged Up Smash. Only do this after doing Dthrow > Bair multiple times. A lot of people will try to spam air dodge after Peach's Dthrow then. It's the kind of thing that only really works once in a match, but it's really good for clutching out a close match.

Makes sense. Thats pretty much what I've been doing. There aren't many options… thx

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Ugh wish peach threads were more active then this, especially the MU one

 

[J-Prep]

Mario or luigi, DHD, Lucario, Greninja!?

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Sigh......so inactive it's rediculous.....
Not trying to be rude, but is anyone going to update this thread faster or something? I really want to get some Peach MU discussion going on

 

[Genome Squirrel]

you can start your own matchup discussion, have any character in mind?