Social Peach and other random Discussion (Social Thread)

[john!]

spacies and sheik are easier than peach for sure

 

[ShroudedOne]

Uh....what?

The 3rd best approach in the game? Compared to who? Turnips aren't a good approach tool in general, they're much better for controlling space. They take half a second to pull, and you can only pull them from the ground...

Other that those, sure she has floats, but people don't have to get close to her. All of a sudden, she can't approach, because she doesn't move through the air quickly, nor does she move on ground quickly. She can apply good pressure once she lands something, but she needs to land something, Most top tiers don't have to let her, forcing her to play more of a defensive/baiting game.

 

[EPsilon933]

No, you're right. I'm just spewing out incorrect information today. Her approach/pressure is 1 of the most unpunishable, but because of her lack of mobility that doesn't keep it as 1 of the best

 

[thesage]

Approaching with Peach?

???????

wat

 

[EPsilon933]

Peach has some hidden aggro potential when she gets floats and/or turnips ready. Even without them she's got dash attack ready whenever she's on the ground. Her limits are her limited mobility and time needed to pull turnips and start floats. Her approaches aren't strong and fast, they're safe and slow

 

[Strong Badam]

falco is way easier than Peach

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Is heart really trying to say peach is easy to play lol. Wow the only people i know who think she is easy to play r the ones who still ***** about dsmash being broken... its not 2003 peach is far from easy to use effectively

Edit: also fc upair oos is really good

 

[EPsilon933]

With Peach, you really only need to know 4 things: turnips, float (fair), dash attack, and (crouch cancel) down Smash. With everyone that's not Peach or Jigglypuff you need to know like a lot including character specific stuff. Peach doesn't even l cancel

 

[ShroudedOne]

....you're serious? Tell me you're not serious. That's certainly the guide on how to beat your super casual friends who only play with items on, with Peach. But sure, let's discount the other moves that she certainly needs, and just focus on the four that every spacie *****es about. That works, too.

No no no, we don't deserve any credit, cause our character only needs four moves. Bull****.

 

[EPsilon933]

....you're serious? Tell me you're not serious.

Half am, half not. Ranting out of my *** is fun ^.^

But seriously, Peach is cheap

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Seriously u r incredibly wrong. I would argue peach is one of the hardest characters to use effectively of the high and top tiers at higher levels of play

 

[EPsilon933]

OK! FINE!

Let's agree that we're not going to accept each others views?

Can we be friends?

 

[ShroudedOne]

I'm sorry, Zant. I don't intend to rage at you specifically. But this gets me really angry, when people feel like they can justify rationalizing away the success of a specific character just because they deem them "cheap." This is NO different from me saying "All Fox needs is shine and nair, he doesn't outplay people, he's just gay," or, "All Puff needs is bair, she doesn't outplay people, she just gets to make less mistakes." And that type of thinking is extremely flawed.

Tell me, what is easier about NOT having 90 billion options as a spacie, compared to the significantly less options that Peach has?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Not anymore we cant, sometimes lines r crossed that cant ever be forgotten. But we can always remember the better times

 

[EPsilon933]

I'm sorry, Zant. I don't intend to rage at you specifically. But this gets me really angry, when people feel like they can justify rationalizing away the success of a specific character just because they deem them "cheap." This is NO different from me saying "All Fox needs is shine and nair, he doesn't outplay people, he's just gay," or, "All Puff needs is bair, she doesn't outplay people, she just gets to make less mistakes." And that type of thinking is extremely flawed.

Tell me, what is easier about NOT having 90 billion options as a spacie, compared to the finite ones that Peach has?

I am not smart enough to explain the simple thoughts in my mind

 

[knightpraetor]

peach's approach isn't the problem...it's approaching her safely...i've finally given up on attempting to approach and resigned myself to just camping and slowly pushing her out and only punishing her attempts to toss turnips

 

[ShroudedOne]

No, please, try. I'll even give you an audience.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I to would like to hear/read what heart has to say. But i would also like to talk about how awesome fc upair oos is. Maybe i should take to the vanz's thread

 

[EPsilon933]

I've already (at least half) tried

No, please, try. I'll even give you an audience.

Peach has fewer options, but better options. Everything she can do is safe

 

[ShroudedOne]

Safe in what way? Initiating a float is a dangerous commitment. When you stop trying to punish her aerials, and start trying to punish her attempts to position herself, then she loses.

Yes, they're safe on shield, and safe from punishment. But just don't let her float, then. And when she does, just stay out of her way. She has to come down eventually.

 

[EPsilon933]

Safe in what way? Initiating a float is a dangerous commitment. When you stop trying to punish her aerials, and start trying to punish her attempts to position herself, then she loses.

You're getting specific. I can't think like that

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

At the very minimum she is not as safe as fox or falco, so the argument she is easy b/c she is safe is faulty

Maybe it would help if u told us who u consider hard to use or something like that

 

[knightpraetor]

spacies cannot just pull back endlessly i agree for falco, he can go on platforms till the float is over..leffen seems to think that is the best option....but fox's full hop and DJ are not safe for just avoiding peach every time she happens to start floating at a safe distance and then move in range.

And worst of all, what about FD..just run away and pray?

 

[EPsilon933]

At the very minimum she is not as safe as fox or falco, so the argument she is easy b/c she is safe is faulty

(I'm also considering how hard she gets punished compared to the rest of the top 8)

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach moves really slowly while floating in the air...

At top level, Puff is pretty much the only one not getting punished extremely hard. Most of the top 8 punishes Peach extremely well.

I'd argue that it's only a little less than the degree to which spacies/Falcon get punished. Similar to Marth/Sheik.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

EShe is lacking speed, range, and kill power. She is kinda light and even through she cant be juggled like fox or falco she can still be comboed into some nasty stuff, yes she has a good recovery but getting down is far from easy.

Also her options out of her safe moves r lacking, while the space animals can do crazy **** out of shine if they hit or can easily pressure shields or escape if they want peach's options r far less.

Peach takes work lots of work and i just dont see how u can call useing her easy

Edit: also while yes spacies get punished hard if they get hit b/c they r fast fallers i feel people forget that them being fastfallers is also one of their strong points which makes them the 2 best characters in the game

 

[EPsilon933]

She is lacking speed, range, and kill power. She is kinda light and even though she cant be juggled like fox or falco she can still be comboed into some nasty stuff, yes she has a good recovery but getting down is far from easy.

Also her options out of her safe moves r lacking, while the space animals can do crazy **** out of shine if they hit or can easily pressure shields or escape if they want peach's options r far less.

Peach takes work lots of work and i just dont see how u can call useing her easy

Edit: also while yes spacies get punished hard if they get hit b/c they r fast fallers i feel people forget that them being fastfallers is also one of their strong points which makes them the 2 best characters in the game

She is not lacking in speed and her lack of range is not a flaw when she overrides all moves in this game. Her lack of kill power isn't even that bad when she's got like 1 of the best edge guards. Getting back down to the ground is easy (unless you're fighting Marth or recovering against Falco)

Are we arguing about how good or how easy Peach is? Fox/Falco require technical ability to do that stuff. Peach doesn't

Peach takes lots of work? So delusional

Fox is the best character in the game. Falco is not that good

Can we agree to disagree without having to be friends?

Peach moves really slowly while floating in the air...

At top level, Puff is pretty much the only one not getting punished extremely hard. Most of the top 8 punishes Peach extremely well.

Her mobility is negligible compared to how well she controls her area. (Never finished writing up my theory yet, but an area is how far you can reach in the time it takes your opponent to react at any time. She controls it so well because all her moves out prioritize everyone else's moves in this game, basically. The Zelda players strongly disagree with what I wrote)

Peach gets punished extremely hard?

 

[john!]

peach does not "out-prioritize everyone else's moves"

mot even close...

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Someone not thinking falco is one of the two best in the game and i am delusional lol. Also her edge guard while good is also somewhat lacking b/c of her vertical limitations. Also what john said. She is not that fast she has really low running speed which also means she cant run then jump and have good momentum to make her fast. And she does take mad skill to use, she is just kinda hard to compare tech skill wise b/c she is very unique compared to the rest of the cast

Edit: and yes peach gets punished extremely hard

 

[EPsilon933]

Someone not thinking falco is one of the two best in the game and i am delusional lol. Also her edge guard while good is also somewhat lacking b/c of her vertical limitations. Also what john said. She is not that fast she has really low running speed which also means she cant run then jump and have good momentum to make her fast. And she does take mad skill to use, she is just kinda hard to compare tech skill wise b/c she is very unique compared to the rest of the cast

Edit: and yes peach gets punished extremely hard[/size]

Who does Falco win against? Everyone goes even vs him but Falcon. Falco is just automatic like Peach but requires tech skill

Only Falco can cover her recovery vertical limitations well. Marth and Jigglypuff also cover them kind of well, but they aren't as much of a threat

She is that fast. Her floats have no lag. Her lack of mobility isn't much of a problem

She doesn't need l canceling nor wavedashing

Peach does not get punished extremely hard. She has so many escapes


Also,

I AM LEAVING HERE!​

 

[thesage]

So many people saying wrong things I just don't know where to start.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Zant, at top level, everyone is being punished extremely hard (with the exception of Puff). I don't see how Peach is much different.

Yes, I'll concede that she controls her area very well. But her area requires setup (the float), and it's relatively easy to deny her this setup, depending on your positioning. Once she sets up her area, then yeah, she's in her zone, but this is why I say that you don't have to engage her float. Just wait the three seconds.

Zant, a character requiring technical ability doesn't simply mean that they need to enter in millions of inputs per second. To achieve this speed that you say Peach has (I don't disagree with you on where you say she has speed, but I simply highlight where she doesn't, and that it does matter), she has to be technical. Float cancelling is a tech, and it's not "easy" to do. She does require technical ability, at least for this speed that you say she has. Furthermore, of the four moves you mentioned, not one of them was nair, bair, or grab, which are essentials as Peach. She can't initiate this strong, fast, nonpunishable pressure that you credit to her without those aerials.

Peach's downsmash isn't safe, neither is her dash attack, so it's certainly not "everything she can do is safe." And those were two of the moves you mentioned.

Her range is a flaw when she needs to be close to her opponent to be effective. I think we can all agree that Peach is at her most effective when she is close to her opponent, right? (If not, then we can start from there, discussing her strengths + weaknesses). If I can space my ranged moves (which are quicker than your most ranged move, fair), then that makes it difficult for you to get in, right? Examples: Jigglypuff's bair, Fox's bair.

Again, FCs do take practice, which is work. And she doesn't have the "one move fits all situations" like the spacies (I will grant you that she has moves that work in many situations, I'm just distinguishing between "many" and "all," which I believe separates high tier from top tier.

In MUs like Marth/Sheik, Peach absolutely needs wavedashing. I'm starting to think that you are trolling, because this is an extremely strong OoS option for her, and I'm sure that we'd all agree that Peach's OoS game is very strong. (If not, again, we can discuss this)

When you say that she has so many escapes, I know that you're thinking of things like her ability to nair/float out of combos and punish. But, you can usually cover these spaces as Fox/Falco by spacing your moves well/waiting for her reaction, then punishing. Playing against a character like her, who is by nature defensive and thus reactive, requires the ability to wait for her to move, then punish.

If you just want to faceroll bad people, then sure, she's "easy," and her technical barrier is lower than spacies (I think that this is what you were initially arguing, but I kind of got wrapped up in other things that you were saying), but she is far from the safest thing alive. With less options than spacies, high tier in general is delegated to less things that they can do, and it is an extremely uphill battle once spacies start exploiting the few options (relatively speaking, of course, they still **** most else) that they do have.

I'm sorry that you find us frustrating, but storming out won't do much to prove your point. Perhaps this is something that you should set out to prove to us. At the same time, our opinions aren't necessarily anymore wrong or right than yours are. Just different. Try to remember this, if, in the future, you want to try to speak to us boneheads again.

@Sage: Go on, start somewhere. Telling people where you think they're wrong and why sparks discussion, and thus they can respond to it, offering their views, and even if we don't reach a consensus, we might understand things a little bit better from the views of others. That is the spirit of a message forum, I believe.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The next generation of smashers becoming smart debaters *tear*

 

[baka4moé]

i do not believe that peach is automatic

 

[ShroudedOne]

Can you explain what you mean, Baka?

 

[baka4moé]

i guess we should first decide on what automatic actually means then. from what i could gather she was being compared to falco, how at mid level alot of his combos are pretty easy tbh. but i dont think thats the same for peach

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I think he is saying peach is not easy to use. But i could be misinterpreting what he means

Edit: and ninja

 

[thesage]

Well against bad people Peach has a lot of really general options that **** them. Ie wd back -> d-smash ***** bad people who don't know how to space, turnip camping, which beats people who don't know how to pressure effectively, etc. A lot of her "easy" things only work on bad people. The actual hard things to do with her (edgeguarding, combos, trapping people) is what is essential for her at higher levels of play. Peach is a very easy character to pick up, but she is hard to master.

 

[Wake]

Oh my. People actually think that Peach is easier to use than the other top/high tiers. I think the only top/high tier harder than Peach to use effectively is Falcon.

On that note, I think that all of the top 8 or so characters are very good and not THAT hard to use in comparison to all of the trash that try to pass themselves off as legitimate characters.

Peach, Puff, Sheik, and Marth get this sort of thing a lot, and then you try them and realize that you probably suck.

 

[ShroudedOne]

My Sheik and Marth are absolute TRASH. And I've tried them, lol.