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Yeah, nice argument. It is people like you who ruins these boards.
No, it's people like you who ruin this board. Mogisthelioma gave you an accurate breakdown of the character, pointing out Palutena's weaknesses and exploitable areas. Your initial complaint about Palutena's reflect/counter was addressed. As well as Explosive Flame and Auto-Reticle. You took actual criticism and in return attacked him personally by blaming him without so much as an actual rebuttle to his proper contribution. People like that are what make this community toxic, by not being able to accept that they're not better than Palutena players and unwilling to adapt and overcome by playing to the character's weaknesses or by playing a counterpick character to make up for the shortcomings of your own playstyle. If you want to contribute, contribute positively. I don't call out for Ness/Lucas mains because they are a good counter for Snake, I look for ways around it and grow as a player. You contribute to the toxicity of the Smash community by devolving to personal attacks when you receive actual criticism or contributions by other players about your limited insight as an individual rather than as a community.
This, for everyone calling out for nerfs. Sure some charcters may be overtuned. However, all characters still have an exploitable weakness. Hoping and relying on patches for nerfs is unhealthy and honestly toxic. Get better as a player, have more awareness, adapt to matches midway through them, and so on. You shouldn't be getting upset over a character's using their strength to their advantage. Because if that were the case, then every fighter would be very bland, and nearly clone-like.
You gave actual criticism and tried to help. They came back with personal attacks against you which is a volatile way of thinking. The OP's mentality is akin to someone who thinks they're good at the game and it's the character who is busted over the truth which is probably that they were beaten by a player who was far better than them and they want to blame it on the character alone being overpowered.
No you're correct, characters with high speed can close the distance fast. Palutena has some slow attacks imo.
Please see almost all the criticism about Palutena in this thread as we have addressed Palutena's weaknesses. Also, claiming she's top 5/10 is definitely not right. Especially when so many other characters outclass her (Inkling, Pikachu/Pichu, Chrom, etc). Adapt and overcome, don't rely on patches, or just main the Goddess yourself and when you start playing her, you'll understand why you're losing due to her weaknesses as a character as well as your own weaknesses as a player. There is no character that is an auto-win, only mind-sets.
Spot-dodging against Autoreticle? Why don't you just shield?
Even if we are to assume you're right, what does that mean? Somebody has to be the best character, right? Do we just keep downgrading everyone who's good until everyone is just bland and the same?
Mogisthelioma
. This place could use more insightful people like him.
It's close enough to an infinite but you can combo 60+ damage on someone like Bayonetta. It's really his only redeeming quality ATM and one of the few reasons I still play him (I will always be loyal to the kurb).
It's something I don't favor because of its infinite aspect. I tried DI'ing and air-dodging. I managed to kind of break away, but that's all this player did. I couldn't safely approach. Mind you, I wasn't using a chararacter I normally use. I'd prefer that Kirby receive different buffs that make him better, rather than being a one trick pony. I kept it cool, though. I didn't stick around, though.
I explicitly said it is too early to be talking about nerfing or patching. I never said I wanted to rely on patches or that she needed to be downgraded. But I do think you are underestimating her power. She's overperforming Inkling, Chrom and many of the other characters in tourney play. Based on the first month of the meta, Palutena is insanely good by pretty much any metric. She’s #2 in All and #5 in National, with a lot of room to grow with the amount of player interest that exists for her. It's naive to say she definitely isn't top 10.
Its naive to say a character is at any tier without a shadow of a doubt 3 weeks into the game’s release.
I didn't say that without a shadow of a doubt where she is tier wise. I said she seems really good, she has a lot of resources and tools and personally I don't see how she isn't top 10.
Yeah she’s strong, but far from OP, and instead of watering down characters, I’d rather if they buffed other character to be able to stand up to her instead of making her boring, maker other characters more interesting, yeah it’s more work, but they are Nintendo and Ultimate is a huge title so they should put the work through patches
He did nothing to adress the aerial spam of hers, stop talking crap. Show me a quote where he adressed this spam. You can not just keep her on ground level since she "lifts" you into the air with her aerials. There is another thread about the aerial spam of this game.
First and foremost, I was addressing your attitude to someone who was actually trying to help you. He addressed a lot of your concerns and you insulted him for that. We do not need toxicity in these boards. Secondly, your first initial post, which I quoted above, reveals that you said that her air combos are OP, and that they should have lag. You said nothing about spam. A 0-30 air combo actually seems very tame to some other characters, especially when other characters have 0-death combos (like Luigi). This only shows that you can't adapt to a character's strong points and unable to exploit weaknesses. Do you want to take away Link's projectiles? Inkling's Ink? Rob's Gyro? Nana from the Ice Climbers? A lot of characters can't escape combos, when they're true. Be thankful that it's only a 30% combo, or do your best to DI (directional influence) out of it, or buffer a directional air dodge, or play a character with a safe way to get back on stage. Stop making this about how Palutena's strong against you, and make it about how YOU can beat Palutena players. Please, learn some manners and contribute positively. Calling out people who are helping you is a good way to get a community to dislike you and when you're posting in the community's forums then you're apart of it. Being rude doesn't help anyone.
Pfft did you really just compare a 30% combo to one of Dedede's Chain Grabs? Even with the word "mild" in front of it that's hyperbole of the finest degree. It isn't technically a true combo but I can frequently get about 30% off of Squirtles Fair > Grab > Waterfall. I can do about 28% damage with a single Flare Blitz from Charizard.
And how easy is Luigis combo to pull off compared to Palutenas? And stop yapping about "toxicty", and similar labels.
Great players know how to spam professionally. They do not do it over and over again, but since the combo is so easy to pull off they use it together with everything else the character has, which was the reason why I brought up the rest of Palutenas moves. It is a dynamic. And her dynamic is OP, and it woul be fixed if they took care about the lack of end lag problem in regards to aerials. That other thread is really good.
Uh, I think you and are using very different definitions of the word "spam".
Maybe so. When I say spam, I mean a move that is frequently used, but that does not mean he use that move over and over again. But he uses it very often in clever and dynamic ways.
No, you're not direct. You're rude and honestly you need to learn how to behave better on public forums before you have the community go against you. Why does this matter? Because you're coming to the community to help you, therefore responding to criticism in a negative way will only backfire on you like it has here.
If you're a Luigi who knows what they're doing, then I would say fairly easy. It's just short hopping into dair buffering into nair until a certain percent into an up-special and this is all off of one grab.
Then honestly, you're playing against people who know what they're doing and you're unable to deal with it. Using moves in a clever or "dynamic" (as you put it, which makes no sense) is all apart of the game. There is already built in counterplay to spamming moves, it's called 'stale' a move will deal less percent damage/knockback (I believe) the more it's used within a succession of other abilities. If you can't get around it by shielding aerials and getting a grab off of the attack and landing lag be it from buffering, spacing, or cross-up then you need to improve. Stop making Palutena out to be something impossible.
Ike's up-special isn't that great. If that's your baseline of what's overpowered, then I'm sorry but you need to improve a lot.
