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Omis's Unlucky Thirteen-The Game Is Over!

Mr.Lombardi34

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lombo is eh iono
I'm what?

Regardless, I think that Spam's idea is superior. Taking a relatively random shot at a townie and then lynching jungle because you assume that he must then be mafia doesn't sound good.

Spam's plan is that we lynch jungle, then base our decision off of that. Jungle could be town, clearing rockin completely. Then we could probably no lynch and get info from rockin/the cops. If he's mafia, then we kill rockin and most likely win the game.

Spam: Either win the game or keep guessing
Macman: Guess and take an educated guess

I like spam's.
 

#HBC | Mac

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So I reread the thread becuase I felt bad about not "****ing some scums **** up". Well here it is.

Firstly I would like to say that yaya has been fairly inactive. If you read the thread you can see for yourself.
Secondly, neither yaya nor tom voted for each other, throughout the course of the game. Neither were ever suspicious of the other. [Obviously this can be said about more than just yaya, so this is nowhere near enough to justify thinking he's mafia. But it was just something to point out.]

Lol.

Unvote: Eor

I need to re-read.

All I know is, karthik has been non-exsitant in this game.

Silent scum?

Maybe.

Vote: karthik_king
This is his first metagame-y post.KK had yet to post by this time, and yaya thinks that is fairly suspicious. Theres nothing wrong with that. However instead of stating KK should post, or just saying it was suspicious, he imediately labels him as mafia and votes for him. This I find kind of odd.

unvote

vote: Karthik King


the kid needs to talk
Two posts later, Tom also votes. hmmm

unvote vote: Rockin

for voting Karthik King again, adding another vote, after he already had four pressure votes, seems random and unnecessary and scummy

/discuss
Tom votes for rockin after, omis decides to keep KK. Makes rockin seem less scummy to me.

Metagame time: doesn't that quote sound like omis? didn't want us to lynch Karthik_King? Think he is mafia?
Umm...

Look at Karthik's posts from when the game started until he made that post.

He had plenty of time to post.

He lied.
Tom quickly goes back to suspecting KK. And only two posts later yaya joins him in accusing KK.

....

Can we hammer him now?

Seriously, if he's town, I am gonna scream.
a few posts go by and yaya is at it again. "seriously if he's town I am gonna scream." yaya feels the need to make this statement. It seems like he wants to overly emphasize the idea that he will be very upset if we lynch town. Why would he be so upset however? Generally in mafia games, town is lynched first simple because we have nothing to go on day one. It seems like yaya made the statement to make up for wanting to hammer KK and make us believe that he will be genuinely annoyed if KK is town.

unvote vote karthik_king
This is the post directly after yaya's.

....

Karthik Was Town?

What.

The.

Hell.
Yaya expressing his "severe dissapointment." However he doesn't doesn't show any happiness that Tom, the mafia godfather was killed. Which I believe outweighs mislynching day 1.

As for lynch candidates I'd like to lynch Yaya or smashbot.
Marshy our doctor says he wants to lynch yaya. The next day he is dead. coincidence?

Sorry, I wasn't able to expand on why I'd prefer them lynched because I was in a hurry.

Anyways, smashbot has contributed almost nothing. His only post that can be taken seriously is the one questioning what roles there are in the game. He's nearly the perfect example of someone who posts enough to get by but doesn't actually say much.

While there were a few people who pushed for Karthik's lynching, Yaya offered the least reasoning for it and didn't even try to justify it unlike Ronike or mentosman. Macman also said little on why he should be lynched, but he at least suggested replacing the guy first.

Also spam master come back.
Marshy's reasoning.


Then the whole yaya grilling me for rolefishing happens. Kind of legit, but is still quick to place suspicions somewhere.

I might as well tell you that a no lynch would be the best option.

Assuming we DO have a SK, if we lynch, and mis-lynch, we're left with 7 people, with I assume would be 3 mafia and 1 sk, meaning that Town is screwed.

FOS Macman

Vote: No Lynch
Yaya vote no lynch so early in the game. So yaya, shouldn't the town be screwed right now. since we kind of mislynched?

After I claimed my role. Yaya had not said anything. Maybe he was lurking to draw suspicion away from him? Until Lombo makes his lil list saying "Yaya(inactive?)"

Hmm, I wouldn't consider myself inactive, Lombardi, your free to have your own opinions, I guess.

Since we have 1 scum dead, is it possible that Rockin and Jungle are scum, and they are faking the claim? Because I find not recruiting another person kinda scummy.
Yaya then quickly decides to respond, casting suspicion on both rockin and jungle, so he doesn't seem inactive.

Ronike makes his huge post accusing me. Yaya is quick to respond to this as well. Saying he agrees, and ive been fairly scummy all game. Then he ignores my question.

Anyways I'm pretty much sure that yaya is mafia. But iono what do you guys think.


I still have slight suspicion of lombo and an even slighter one of ronike. And i believe rockin/jungle are not mafia[but you guys need to post, I still find it odd that you have been around but not posting].

****

what's an indy recruiter or w//e.

and lombo, my plan was to lynch junglefever if we shot wrong. Which would have a similar effect as spam's plan.

ty omis =D
 

Ronike

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An independent recruiter. Its a different form of an independent side (not town or mafia). They can recruit 1 person per night, sometimes only town, sometimes it doesn't matter. They rectruities become an independent too, and the recruiter keeps building this up, and it starts to become a sneakier mafia type group. They win when everyone left alive is indy or its impossible for them to lose. I can't remember which game it was, but I remember being recruited into that side once.
 

mentosman8

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Ok, first of all I would like to retract my thought on the no-lynch for right now. It may prove an OK idea once things are said and done, but realizing we only have 8 left not 9 made me realize it may not be the best choice. Now, as for the matter of the shot and lynch, I actually missed Marshy's post about possibly a yaya lynch. I do think Macman gives some solid reasoning, and it is something for me to think about until I am able to make another post(I've gotta be to work in a little over 6 hours, probly be there till around 2 or 3, I'll try to get a better post then). As for Rockin and Jungle, the fact that we only had one kill last night makes me think that Marshy saved correctly. Given what happened D2, Rockin would have been the most likely save. So I don't doubt the fact that they are masons at the moment.

Also, before I go for the night(and this is directed to Ronike), as I said the no lynch mention was based around there being 9 left(in which case it would be a solid idea), but now that I realize there are only 8 left I don't believe it is our best course of action. My lurkiness has been in large part due to my work lately. I've been working really long days and, until getting both sunday and monday off and getting some sleep, have been flat out exhausted, and this past week had some issues at home that really took my mind away from games for a while. With work hitting slow-season again, and the other issues calmed down in my head(for a while at least), I should be able to post a bit more. For now, I'll just say we need to put a plan together quick.

One last thing, directed at Jungle, since you were recruited into Rockin's group, you must have had a role beforehand. Unless it is a weird group where you retain the powers of your old role, obviously whatever you were will no longer be in play, and it might give us something to work on if you let us know what you were beforehand(not necessarily for the lynch today, but so we have an idea of what we have against us/left for us.)
 

#HBC | Mac

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wait, if you get recruited for mason you lose your original role? If that were the case that would be kind of dumb because it wouldn't make sense for any mason recruiter to recruit since there would be a high chance that they picked a town power role or a mafia member.

also I noticed yaya was signed into smashboards earlier...

i guess he didn;'t have the time to respond to my post.

we have alot to decide in 3 days.
 

Ronike

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Mentos, I was just posting reasons people may be suspiscious, trying to leave out my own personal biases as much as possible. I personally don't suspect you all that much besides the whole lotsa no lynch suggestions, but that may be noobiness.

As for the recruiter, again, fits into my whole indy recruiter thing... give him reason to do it

At any rate, seeing as how we have only 72 hours remaining (assuming Omis is on/close to my timezone) I think we need to have our minds made up and have picked someone to shoot by this time tomorrow, lest we run the risk of running out of time and later having to lynch fast. Agreed?
 

Mr.Lombardi34

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Macman: Good post. You really exposed all the things that yaya did. I have to say, that's a pretty strong case. It makes me want to lean toward Macman's plan (Have him shoot yaya first, then if yaya is town lynch jungle). I think it sounds like a plan.

Also, Ronike/Everybody else: I would hope Omis could extend the deadline, since there's so much activity now *Cough*Omis*Cough*.
 

mentosman8

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Mentos, I was just posting reasons people may be suspiscious, trying to leave out my own personal biases as much as possible. I personally don't suspect you all that much besides the whole lotsa no lynch suggestions, but that may be noobiness.

As for the recruiter, again, fits into my whole indy recruiter thing... give him reason to do it

At any rate, seeing as how we have only 72 hours remaining (assuming Omis is on/close to my timezone) I think we need to have our minds made up and have picked someone to shoot by this time tomorrow, lest we run the risk of running out of time and later having to lynch fast. Agreed?
I know, I just like to respond to people's mentions of me:) The recruited masons losing their original role is not a very uncommon thing from what I've seen. As I said, if this is not the case, he should not say what he was before, but assuming he did lose his original abilities(which makes sense... If a cop were recruited as a mason and could still investigate, as long as there was one other mason they could communicate without ever revealing themselves etc. You give up your former ability for knowledge of fellow town members and the ability to talk without mafia seeing), it definitely would make sense for him to claim. I don't think this is necessarily a sign of an independent recruiter either.

And the last point has become irrelevant since Omis' last post. I'll be back in a while to post a little bit on my thoughts on what's gone on/is going on.
 

Rockin

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Hey, sorry for being quiet. I'll admit, I was playing some PSU on the Xbox with a bit of lurking. Reason why is because I didn't really have anything to add for the group, so I was just listening to the many things that said.

I'm not sure why Junglefever was being inactive. I believe it's the fact of work or he doesn't realize that the game resumed moving.

OMIS! Put back that deadline! Lombo said to extend it ( 4 days plz), not GET RID OF IT! >: After this, no more extentions. We need to keep the game moving regardless.

WHY is it so surprising that we're both alive? Couldn't it be the fact that the Mafia is not interested in killing neither one of us at the moment? Not every Mafia would kill others in terms of them being mason or in the spotlight (especially the type of light that lets me know I'm a recruiter). It would be easier for a Mafia to just get picked so that way we both get killed. Or better yet: Let ya lynch one of us and the Mafia kills the surivor. Also, not everyone will kill said person. Maybe they would kill someone else in terms of not being predictable/better hunch.

If jungle dies mafia we know rockin is the last mafia, but if he dies town then we can safely use rockin as a second cop. He would say who he is going to recruit before night starts so that if he dies we have found a mafia, and if he lives we have 2 confirmed town.

Personally, I think the most logical choice to get 100% reliable info is for macman to shoot jungle, and then for us to base our lynch of how junge comes up. Heck, if he's mafia all we have to worry about is an independent.
You see how flawed this plan is? This would've probably been good if the plan was may a day ago when THE DOCTOR WAS ALIVE.

In order for Masons to recruit, it has to be at night time, and they get let in the next day. Now, since Marshy is dead, it'd be a walk to death and a help for Mafia.

Even if Marshy was alive, you're talking about killing someone who could be a tossup of Mafia or Mason.

I've had suspicions on Macman that Ronike has already said (especially the part of Macman making me want to give up my role in a 'give it up, already' type of way) But I also have suspicions on Spam Master. He's played this game just as much as anyone and I know he knows the roles fairly well as to how it works. Both seems a bit too agressive.

If Macman is actually a vig, we need to make certain we use the bullet in a better manner.

So now ask yourself now. If you shoot Junglefever, what would happen?
 

Ronike

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What happens if we shoot jungle? Well at the moment, I think the pros outweigh the cons:

Pros:
If he's mafia, we win cause we know you are mafia.
If he's town, we have one more person we know is town.
If he's indy, we know you are too and get rid of a threat to the town.
The game moves along with one less inactive

Cons:
One less person for the mafia/indy to kill (happens if mac uses his kill almost no matter what)

Now, I don't see it getting too much better than that. We get a lot of info and we don't even lose an active contributor!
 

Ronike

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In addition, I'm looking back over the last couple of pages (I have my account set to show the maximum number of posts per page BTW, so its quite a bit) and I only see you accusing Macman once, and that was in passing. Now all the sudden you are really suspicious of Macman? Any reason you never really told us before? And why are you lurking so much? I really think its suspicious that our two members that can talk to each other and are in a coalition also happen to be our most quiet members. I really am starting to think you are either mafia or indy...
 

#HBC | Mac

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WHY is it so surprising that we're both alive? Couldn't it be the fact that the Mafia is not interested in killing neither one of us at the moment? Not every Mafia would kill others in terms of them being mason or in the spotlight (especially the type of light that lets me know I'm a recruiter). It would be easier for a Mafia to just get picked so that way we both get killed. Or better yet: Let ya lynch one of us and the Mafia kills the surivor. Also, not everyone will kill said person. Maybe they would kill someone else in terms of not being predictable/better hunch.
Your argument here is that mafia would be smart to not kill you because you are a mason. However at nighttime mafia could not have known you were a mason because you have yet to claim yet. Given your behavior yesterday, one could assume you are a cop who had investigated jungle night 1. This seems to be the most likely scenario because there is usually a cop in most mafia games. The second assumption that could be made was that you and jungle were in a masonry together. What I am trying to get at is that your argument is void because Mafia didn't know that you were a mason at the time that they were deciding who they should kill. They could have easily thought you were a cop.

Also and if you believed that mafia would think this way because you were a mason? Why didn't you claim yesterday?

What exactly were you suspicions of me? My rolefishing?

Rockin, and everyone else, what are your thoughts on what I said about yaya. I'm fairly sure that he is scum.
 

#HBC | Mac

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I made the above post before I saw ronikes.

I personally think that we should shoot someone that isn't rockin or jungle first.
If we hit mafia we can be fairly certain that rockin and jungle are not mafia since they are in a coalition together.
If we do not get mafia, we should lynch jungle, and that way we will still have all the benefits of spam's idea.
 

Ronike

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Alright, since you asked, step by step reaction, gonna be sicker than when my neighbor's UV reactor blows up and kills us all. Granted, I dunno actually what a UV reactor is, but it just sounds dangerous methinks... At any rate, if I disappear again, you all know why [/random tangent and jokingness]

For your first point, we can't really read into who sided with Tom for a couple of reasons:
A)Day 1 was so short people didn't really have any time to make accusations besides KK
B) Tom is **** smart. He could have been placing himself in alliance with some people to seem more innocent himself and throw suspicion on him if he died.

So yeah, that kinda outweighs a lot of your first points. Its still kinda suspicious, but like I said, we can't read all that much into it.

The whole "seriously if he's town" thing does seem a bit over the top, I agree. Then again, he may have just been voicing the frustration that most of us were feeling. KK did seem **** suspicious back then.

Yaya not mentioning Tom at all in that post is interesting, and yet he did seem to want to make a point about KK. But never saying anything about Tom is dumb.

Marshy wanting to lynch Yaya then ending up dead is not something really suspicious IMO. Maybe even anti-suspicious. After all, one person suspects the mafia and then the mafia thinks "Lets kill him? By the way, this may give the town our identities, but who cares? HE MUST DIE!!!" not too common a thought methinks... Moreso: "Hey, lets kill this experienced player! We even may get to throw suspicion on Yaya! Sweet!" seems appropriate as well...

I do hate no lynchers, so I'm not even going to try to devil's advocate this.

Him lurking or w/e until Lombo FOSes him is very interesting as well, not too much devil advocating possible.

So yeah, despite all the above, most of it was devil's advocating, cause I have fun doing that. I actually do suspect Yaya, and your post pointed out some more stuff to think about that makes him seem even more scummy IMO. He definetely could be mafia. I wouldn't say I'm pretty sure he is mafia, but he does seem a good bet at this point, and if jungle ends up being town, I'd say he is a **** good bet. At this point however, I am more convinced that Jungle and Rockin are anti-town, and even if not, shooting Rockin gives us much more info I think. Like I said, Yaya is a good mafia candidate, but I think Rockin is our best bet at a kill right now.
 

Ronike

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If we hit mafia we can be fairly certain that rockin and jungle are not mafia since they are in a coalition together.
I strongly disagree. I doubt that rockin and jungle are mafia, but I'm really starting to think that they are an indy masonry.
 

Yaya

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I apologize, but I am unable to post as my parents are mad that I have incomplete work, I'm kinda sneaking on the computer because I am not allowed on.
 

mentosman8

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Ronike, let me run some numbers as to why shooting Jungle may not be the best idea. Assuming he IS in a mason group with Rockin(which I can easily believe), lets run the numbers.

Right now, we have two mafia, one SK, and 5 assorted townies. If we shoot Jungle(as stated above, this assumes he is a mason), we are down to 4 townies and 3 anti-town. If we lynch at that point, and lynch wrong, game is done for town as we no longer have majority. Let us look at some scenarios for night if we no-lynch or lynch correctly.

No-Lynch:We are left with, as above, 3 anti-town and 4 townies. Enter night. Here, one of thee things can happen. 1)maf or SK hit the other group, while one(inevitably) hits Rockin(mafia would not risk leaving a cleared mason alive). in this situation, at best, we have 2 maf vs. 3 town. This situation gives a chance, but probability is against it happening. 2)maf and SK BOTH target Rockin at night, and we only have one death. This leaves us with 3 town and 3 anti-town, and town loses. 3)maf and sk hit separate targets, both town, leaving 3 anti town and 2 town: in this case we don't even have majority over mafia alone, none the less mafia and killer.

Correct lynch: Now, this can be split into two categories. SK lynch and maf lynch. Let us take a look at both.

SK lynch:This is the only situation here in which we aren't leaving a day 4 to chance. If we lynched the SK, we would be left with 4 town and 2 maf going into night. A night kill(likely Rockin to prevent a clear), and we are left with 3 town to 2 maf, a winnable situation although absolutely no room for error. As I said, if Jungle is a mason this is the ONLY possibility that doesn't leave the next day to chance.

Mafia lynch:For this, simply see the scenarios I have listed above to know where I'm going. 1) With a lower chance of it happening, maf or sk hits the other, and for the sake of assumption the other hits Rockin. this leaves 3 town and 1 anti town Obviously high chances of winning at that point, but each side only has a 1 in 5 chance of hitting the other(unless intentionally going for the other side, in which case 1 in 4 due to excluding the at-that-point cleared Rockin), meaning we have an 80% chance this does not happen if one side tries to take out the clear. 2)Both parties hit Rockin. In this situation, we are left with 2 anti-town and 3 town. The main difference between this and an SK lynch, is that it relies on luck of both parties hitting the same target, and is not a team for the anti-town, so we wouldn't be able to read vote patterns or anything of the sort. Finally, 3) remaining maf and killer hit different targets. maf v sk v 2 town. Even if we lynch one of the killing roles, the other hits a town at night and game is over.


Now, why am I making an argument ASSUMING Jungle is mason? Quite simply the information that has been put to us so far. Rockin is competent enough to know if he were maf or an indy recruiter that putting THAT much force behind someone being town with only one vote on them makes them very likely targets for lynches AND night kills by opposing parties. Second of all, we only had one night kill N2. Rockin hadn't claimed yet, and sounded very much like an investigative role such as a cop. Marshy is a smart enough player he likely realized this and protected Rockin, which is why there was only one kill(at least, that's how I see it). The way the information from what has happened has fallen together, to me, is solidly supporting Rockin's claim to being a mason.

So, in terms of our shot and lynch, I'm not entirely sure yet. It is good that our deadline got extended, as I feel we definitely need some more time to discuss and follow through what information we have. Unfortunately, day 1 revolved around Karthik's inactivity, and day 2 around smashbot's theory, so we don't have a very large amount to work with.
 

Ronike

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OK, I gotta post this before I finish reading your post cause its bugging me: For mafia winning condition in every game, the mafia has to outweigh EVERYONE else. This means indies are counted in the town side. So no, actually, we don't lose in a number of your situations.
 

#HBC | Mac

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Ronike, you make a couple of good points. I know what a tricky person TOM can be.

I still am fairly confident in Yaya being scum because of his general lurkiness. Also his accusations lacked substance and were generally him just agreeing with someone or hopping on ideas someone made earlier. It seems as though he is looking for a safe spot to put his suspicion. Both of these reasons make him seem very scummy to me.

yaya: I hate out of game johns. However there is always the possibility that they may be true so i can't peg you for it. Outside circumstances come up alot. However I can say that it is quite convenient for this to happen to you now. I am still waiting for a response, so as soon as you fix whatever is going on in your life please reply.

I don't really know which plan of action we should take. I still like my suggestion the most.

I doubt rockin and jungle are indy. It doesn't make sense for rockin to draw such attention to his mason partner if they were scum. But I guess that possibility still remains.
 

Ronike

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Actually, that clears up almost your whole argument. However, consider if Rockin is a indy recruiter and we DON'T go after him or jungle:

An indy recruiter's win condition is almost the same as the mafias: get the game to a point where it is impossible to lose. So they have more people than a lynch requires. So.

A) Shoot and lynch, both not Jungle or Rockin

So now we enter night with 6 people, 2 of whom are indy. The indy recruits someone. That gives them three. The mafia/vig hits anyone besides them, we lose at a ratio 3/5 are indy.

Even if we get all the mafia today and the vig doesn't hit, we come in tomorrow at a ratio of 1:1 indies and they have three of the four votes. Actually, at this point it is impossible for them to lose as the required vote would be 4/6, more than the town has, so they still win.

If we miss a mafia and they hit an indy or the vig hits them, we still go in tomorrow with the indies controlling 2/5, and then the whole non indy side would have to come together to stop them, not entirely likely.

If the mafia and vig both hit someone different, we lose if they aren't indy, and we lose if 1 indy and 1 non indy (2 indies vs 2 non, see above situation). The only way we win is if the mafia and vig both hit indies, not likely if we aren't hitting rockin or jungle today. So yeah, this whole situation is a loss IMO

B) Shoot and No lynch or vice verca
If we only kill 1 person today, we go into night with 2 indy, 5 non indy. Indy takes 1 for 3 indy, 4 non. Then, stuff happens, and we are left with only a slightly better situation than above. Do the math yourself, I don't feel like it.

C) No kills today
We go in 2 indy, 2 maf, 4 town. We come out with, at best, 2 indy, 2 maf, 3 town with kills being the same on the indy pick. Still don't like the odds.

So yeah, if they are indy, its easy to find out and we lose little, so thats the main reason I think we should go for it. If I need to flesh out B and C, just ask, I just don't feel like it now.
 

Ronike

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Ronike, you make a couple of good points. I know what a tricky person TOM can be.
Yeah, but I still think it holds, I just think if Rockin is an Indy Recruiter (hence forth I'm calling IR cause Im sick of typing it out) we are in a **** lot of trouble. If I'm wrong (and I may well be) I fully support going after Yaya. Plus, now it sounds like he will be out of commision for a while, so we get rid of an inactive too.

I still am fairly confident in Yaya being scum because of his general lurkiness. Also his accusations lacked substance and were generally him just agreeing with someone or hopping on ideas someone made earlier. It seems as though he is looking for a safe spot to put his suspicion. Both of these reasons make him seem very scummy to me.
Another good point, another reason why he may well be mafia. Again though, an IR problem seems more severe to me, and easier to solve.

yaya: I hate out of game johns. However there is always the possibility that they may be true so i can't peg you for it. Outside circumstances come up alot. However I can say that it is quite convenient for this to happen to you now. I am still waiting for a response, so as soon as you fix whatever is going on in your life please reply.
**** happens, I know better than most, but still, seconded cause I hate inactives...

I don't really know which plan of action we should take. I still like my suggestion the most.

I doubt rockin and jungle are indy. It doesn't make sense for rockin to draw such attention to his mason partner if they were scum. But I guess that possibility still remains.
Yes, but IR is too much of a threat if its true to simply but aside. AND ITS EASY TO CHECK!!!
 

Rockin

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I don't think Omis would put something called a 'indie recruiter.' I guess saying that Omis possibly wanting to keep it simple with some of the basic things isn't enough >> I still think there's possibly just two Mafias within our group.
 

spam_master

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Well we can either shoot jungle or someone else, I vote yaya based on the arguments made above if we do decide to shoot someone else.

The problem is if Rockin is an independent recruiter. If he is and we dont find this out till after the day is over he can recruit again, and if he has someone else secretly recruited then its game over.
 

mentosman8

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OK, I gotta post this before I finish reading your post cause its bugging me: For mafia winning condition in every game, the mafia has to outweigh EVERYONE else. This means indies are counted in the town side. So no, actually, we don't lose in a number of your situations.
Ronike, run the numbers there and you'll see that most of those cases WILL add up to a town loss. Let me go a little bit farther into what I was saying.

NL 1: Like I said, chance to win with no room for error
NL 2: 2 maf, 1 SK, 3 town start of d4. If we lynch the SK, maf kills at night, 2v2 we lose. If we lynch a maf, chances are 3 of 4 they hit town, likewise for sk. With these odds, chances are very high we end up with 1 or 2 town, and barring that 25% chance of a cross shoot, this means even a correct lynch results in maf/killer equaling town after the night.
NL 3: As said in my original post, if we lynch SK, we lose right there, if we lynch a maf barring both killers shooting each other we lose come end of night.

Lynch SK: Original post works fine.

Lynch maf 1: Original post explains full-through.
Lynch maf 2: As stated, it will be difficult to tell who the anti town are due to inability to read voting patterns, but a correct lynch would lead us into a day 5 with 2 town and either maf/killer. Still winnable, just need to be lucky for it to happen.
Lynch maf 3: same as NL 3, even if we lynch correctly we go into night with 2 town and 1 killer, the 1 death causing a town loss.

The original post I made didn't say that we were guaranteed a loss in all of these situations. However, as you can see with my elaborations above, in several scenarios we can not win without an extreme bit of luck. I think shooting a likely-town for the sake of proving such would have been acceptable N1 or N2, but at this point it is extremely unsafe for us to do so. An independently aligned recruitment role seems out of place, and judging by N1, we definitely don't just have one killing role, and it is EXTREMELY unlikely to have mafia, an SK, AND an independent recruiter, and I highly doubt that the second kill n1 was just a lucky shot by a vig who shot when they shouldn't have.
 

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Look, I know its unlikely that the second option you offered at the end is true, but again, what if it is? We have a real easy way to check, and a pretty good back up person to lynch if I'm wrong! Look, the thing is, we are in a tight situation no matter what. If we do go after jungle and I'm wrong, we are pretty much screwed according to you, barring some luck. But if we don't go after jungle and I'm right, we are definitely screwed. I know its not the most likely thing, but you must admit that jungle and rockin seem really suspicious, and they seem like they may be scum! I personally don't want to wait til the last moment to deal with them...
 

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Oh, and about the whole thing being really farfetched, maybe our sk friend was really one of the variations of a cop, a detective or w/e (can't remember the real name) that can examine one person a night to determine if they are the GF and if they are, kill him and then become vanilla townie? Ok, maybe I'm getting a little too far into the realm of speculation, but ah what the hey, I'll still post it for consideration. If someone is this, please consider coming foward, cause it gives my idea of an IR an much better chance of being reality.
 

Rockin

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so mentos, i'm kind of confused as to what you are proposing.
I believe he's trying to say we should be more considerate of our lynches and have solid lead as to who's a Mafia or not. I don't think he agrees with lynching/killing neither me or Junglefever.
 

Ronike

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Ok, Macman, do you agree with me that an IR is a possibility and one we should try to fend off? At this point, you are the only active poster that hasn't stated whether you agree with me or not. If you don't I'll see if I can't go back and find some info that almost proves someone as mafia beyond a doubt.
 

mentosman8

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I'm pretty much trying to say that I really don't see Rockin/Jungle being an independent group, because barring an unusual role like Ronike just mentioned, we almost definitely have a SK, and if this is the case a 13 person game is too small to have mafia, and two independent factions. All in all, I'm just suggesting we don't use your shot or our lynch on Rockin/Jungle. I may not have any way to be sure, but I feel confident that Rockin and Jungle are the mason group they claim to be, and that killing one of them off puts us in far too tight a situation to risk.

Actually, now that I think about it, if it is true Rockin and Jungle are masons, we have a very high chance of hitting the mafia or SK with both of our possible hits today. We have 8 people left right now. If we were right early on of a 3 maf/1 SK setup, the ratio is now 3/8. If we don't count yourself, as our single shot vig, and Rockin/Jungle as the masons, that leaves us at 3/5. Of course, I will count myself into this work as well(don't take this wrong, I am solely taking this for the sake of argument and I know I have given no proof of myself being town yet), leaving us at 3/4 mafia/SK, or a 75%chance to shoot one. And, if we shot wrong, we would then know the remaining 3 are the anti-town group.

I would like to hear thoughts about this, and once again I ask Jungle to claim what he was prior to recruitment assuming(as in most setups) he lost that ability. This will help me work things out immensely I believe. Just trust me for right now when I ask you to NOT take your shot just yet until we hear back from Jungle. Once he has responded, and we know his original role, I should be able to point us in a very solid/safe direction.

So, Macman, the short version, is I'm proposing waiting until Jungle claims his original role, and we can be put in a position where we can win this easily. I ask you to not get itchy and shoot either Rockin or Jungle, and wait until that happens and I am able to post what I need to following, and we will be pretty well set to win this(assuming my thoughts here are correct, and I am relatively confident they are.)
 

mentosman8

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Also that question about Jungle's original role can be asked of Rockin if you have asked him about it since his recruitment. Once I have the answer from either of you I will make a post that puts us in a situation that we are almost guaranteed a win.
 

Rockin

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Also that question about Jungle's original role can be asked of Rockin if you have asked him about it since his recruitment. Once I have the answer from either of you I will make a post that puts us in a situation that we are almost guaranteed a win.
If you like I can answer for him.
 

mentosman8

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That would help, as it will allow me to make my post tonight instead of risking being unable to until after work tomorrow, which will allow more time for everyone to talk about it.
 

#HBC | Mac

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rockin tbh I highly doubt they are indy masons or w//e. Though I believe it is a possibility. Right now I just believe we should put them aside for the time being. We should definitely come back to them during out lynch discussions. I just don't feel very comfortable shooting a claimed mason.

Right now we should decide who to shoot, and yaya has seemed the most scummy by far.

TY sir rupert thorne for clearing that up
 

Rockin

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Well on the first day of me talking to him, I asked if he had a role before. He said he didn't (surprisingly. usually he has some sort of good roles). So yeah, he was a vanilla townie.
 

Rockin

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gah, ****it!

LISTEN

I'M ROCKIN. HE'S RON-I-K-E

How can ya mix us up? I got a avatar filled with jugs! LOL

sorry, continue.
 
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