Olimar Matchup Thread

[Llumys]

MK sounds like safe bet for this week's discussion.

How does recording the AIM conversation sound?

 

[Tin Man]

All I need is a time and I'll be there if it works. I like the idea of recording the convo (for private usage only of course).

Besides Marth, what other match ups AiM convos have I missed?

 

[Llumys]

I'm not able to say. I missed the Marth discussion by a few minutes, but I got the summary shortly afterward.

 

[Tin Man]

Alright then

@Hilt or someone, any other match up summaries I missed recently?

 

[IcyLight]

ok, im going to say this.

about a year ago, there was an mk description posted in oli back room pretty much saying once mk has learned the matchup it's going to be HEAVILY in his favor, as in 75-25 or better mk favor. does anyone else seem to find this is starting to come true? i can't do **** against good mk's any more, only the scrub ones who run into pivot grabs. it's getting frustrating trying to fight them and know when they are in my face there is nothing i can do.

 

[DanGR]

Well... don't ask me. I don't know wtf to do against them either. <.< Same boat.

Technically speaking, if he's close he can just dtilt spam and you can't do ANYTHING but attempt to drop your shield, powershield, and then drop that and use a tilt or jab. I was fightin Fearless in doubles with MK and I'd just walk towards him, short hop into a tornado if he fsmashed, or dtilt/ftilt if he grabbed. Then you spam dtilt over and over, and you're screwed hard.

That or roll, which spells out "dash-grab me."

But... I really suck badly against MK with Oli though, so don't listen to me. >.>

 

[Llumys]

I want to see what Weruop and Rich think about the match-up. I'm not too good at it, either.

 

[Denti]

i lose and win against MK 50-50 of my matches, I'll be able to help and give input. important thing about this match up is mind games/predictions. if you fear the MK you'll lose, that's my motto.

 

[Llumys]

You should definitely note which match-ups have been re-discussed.

 

[Noa.]

With the Falco matchup finshing up, it's time to move on to another matchup.

What character should we do now? How about G&W? That's an easy matchup.

 

[Llumys]

A quick G&W discussion, then Marth or Wolf?

 

[Noa.]

Probably. I find GW to be an extremely easy matchup to discuss.

 

[Llumys]

Agreed, even if I'm not amazing at the match-up itself.

A few days of G&W then a hard match-up sounds perfect to me.

Also, summaries. >:D

 

[Noa.]

Hmmm. Maybe I'll make the Snake matchup summary. All I have to do is just summarize the thread. And Hilt would look over it anyway. I know the matchup pretty well too. I just need time. Probably by Wednesday night I could do it.

 

[Llumys]

I have no school Wednesday, so I could probably work on Falco.

Keep in mind that a lot of it has to be accepted contributions from the actual discussion, not personal opinions.

 

[Denti]

I just got aim, when do we do those discussions if we do them anymore? :0

my screen name is opxSuperNintendo

 

[Llumys]

I'm pretty sure there's no set time for them, but I think we could start organizing them.

 

[DTP]

Luigi boards just started discussing the Olimar Match-up!
It'd be great to hear what you guys have to say

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255183

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Well... don't ask me. I don't know wtf to do against them either. <.< Same boat.

Technically speaking, if he's close he can just dtilt spam and you can't do ANYTHING but attempt to drop your shield, powershield, and then drop that and use a tilt or jab. I was fightin Fearless in doubles with MK and I'd just walk towards him, short hop into a tornado if he fsmashed, or dtilt/ftilt if he grabbed. Then you spam dtilt over and over, and you're screwed hard.

That or roll, which spells out "dash-grab me."

But... I really suck badly against MK with Oli though, so don't listen to me. >.>

...........................................................................


game3pools?

 

[IcyLight]

Well... don't ask me. I don't know wtf to do against them either. <.< Same boat.

Technically speaking, if he's close he can just dtilt spam and you can't do ANYTHING but attempt to drop your shield, powershield, and then drop that and use a tilt or jab. I was fightin Fearless in doubles with MK and I'd just walk towards him, short hop into a tornado if he fsmashed, or dtilt/ftilt if he grabbed. Then you spam dtilt over and over, and you're screwed hard.

That or roll, which spells out "dash-grab me."

But... I really suck badly against MK with Oli though, so don't listen to me. >.>

this is exactly how mk's play in my region, it's stupid xD

 

[DanGR]

...........................................................................


game3pools?

Wait, what? I'm talking about our doubles matches.

 

[Llumys]

I don't follow. .-.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Wait, what? I'm talking about our doubles matches.

you were saying "all i had to do vs fearless was dtilt and short hop nado"

and i said "game 3 pools?"

the matchup is very do-able

 

[DanGR]

What I should have said was if it really just boils down to dtilt and tornado to beat Oli's best spacing moves (shown by the doubles matches), it doesn't seem to me like it could be very close to even. Really the opposite. In teams, where albeit it was much easier to get near you for obvious reasons, I experienced the simplicity of this tactic first hand. I've played against other oli players too. It works on them as well.

The difficult part for me is getting close enough to do what I stated earlier without getting pressured from purple pikmin, dashing upsmashes, and/or getting grabbed from pivotgrabs a ton. That experience is what you get by playing the matchup though- something I have very little experience doing, unfortunately. :/

That said, you're significantly better than me at the MK matchup from Oli's perspective than I am at fighting Oli from MK's perspective... if that makes any sense. Fighting against Oli is like playing a new game, of sorts. I feel that once I learn how to play this new game, though, it'll be really easy.

That and sleep johns.

 

[IcyLight]

What I should have said was if it really just boils down to dtilt and tornado to beat Oli's best spacing moves (shown by the doubles matches), it doesn't seem to me like it could be very close to even. Really the opposite. In teams, where albeit it was much easier to get near you for obvious reasons, I experienced the simplicity of this tactic first hand. I've played against other oli players too. It works on them as well.

The difficult part for me is getting close enough to do what I stated earlier without getting pressured from purple pikmin, dashing upsmashes, and/or getting grabbed from pivotgrabs a ton. That experience is what you get by playing the matchup though- something I have very little experience doing, unfortunately. :/

That said, you're significantly better than me at the MK matchup from Oli's perspective than I am at fighting Oli from MK's perspective... if that makes any sense. Fighting against Oli is like playing a new game, of sorts. I feel that once I learn how to play this new game, though, it'll be really easy.

That and sleep johns.

all you had to say was sleep johns and we would have understood

 

[Razek]

live with insomnia then call sleep johns :D

jk but yeah, the match isn't easy for mk or olimar, just saying... it's -very- do-able

-fearless on raz's acct

 

[Llumys]

Meh, I'm a strong believer that if the Meta Knight knows the match-up that he should win.

 

[Razek]

you just need to practice more

 

[Llumys]

I don't think Olimar has the tools to be consistent against Meta Knight.

Obviously, out-smarting him is possible, but if he knows the match-up, he shouldn't have any trouble at all.

 

[Tin Man]

I agree, MK owns Olimar.

Faster, better in the air, more priority

what do we got? Range?

MK FTilt ***** and we have a major weakness...

...our recovery

 

[Llumys]

I'd like to mention that Olimar's greatest aspect is his ability to zone properly, which becomes somewhat futile against Meta Knight.

 

[Noa.]

The mk matchup is obviously in his favor. But I still don't think it's unwinnable. You just have to be extremely active against him. You never stop moving and just keep the momentum going. I haven't played the matchup too many times, but it really doesn't seem unwinnable.

 

[Llumys]

Meh. I wouldn't call it absolutely unwinnable. I still believe that if the Meta Knight knows what he's doing, he should win. Olimar can't handle Meta Knight's defensive tactics.

Also, you're right. You have to deal with this match-up very differently.

 

[Noa.]

Well, if the MK knows what he's doing, aka knowing the matchup, and he should win all the time if he knows the matchup, that makes it an unwinnable matchup.

Not that I believe that though.

 

[Llumys]

Yeah, I'm aware that I'm contradicting myself.

I never used the words "all the time", though. (:

 

[Zori]

i dont think its the defense part of mk that we cant beat, its when he finally lands and goes on the offense

 

[Llumys]

After he takes a stock with that offense, he can just play defensively for the rest of the game.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Frame data for item toss:

Spoiler

               Hitbox         Animation
Forward        8              24
Backwards      11             25
Up             12             23
Down           7              20
Dashing        5              37
Z Drop         1              2

"Hitbox" is when the hitbox for the attack begins. It doesn't end until it hits something or the ground. "Animation" is how long Olimar is in lag, starting from the initiation of the attack. For instance, if the Animation lasts 24 frames, Olimar can do stuff on 25. All of the animations for aerial item throws are the exact same as their grounded counterparts, except that there is no dashing item throw in the air, obviously.

Jump Cancel Item Throw is a nice substitute to Dash Item Throw, if you don't want to suffer the extra frames of lag. However, you cannot JC Item Throw forward during a dash, it will end up Dash Item Throwing instead. In order to JC Item Throw, throw the item within frames 2 through 5 of an initial jump. For every frame, excluding the first frame, add one frame to the time of the hitbox and the animation. For instance, if you perform the item throw on frame 3 of the jump, you will add 2 frames to a backwards item throw. The hitbox will come out on frame 13, the animation will lasts 27 frames.​

 

[Gichan]

Isn't there a matchup guide somewhere where I can see details on the matchup?

 

[Noa.]

Do G&W. Easy peasy matchup.