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Olimar Matchup Thread

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Llumys

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I really need to improve at that match-up.

I would've beat the tournament winner from my last tourney early in the bracket if I had beaten his G&W in round 3. ):
 
Fino

Fino

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I'm under the impression that the more skill the person puts into playing mk, the easier the match-up is.
I 2-0'd (and almost 2-stocked him both times if I didn't SD at 0 round 1) UTD Zac.... so I guess I can contribute... dunno how helpful I will be .-.


~Fino
 
Noa.

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Was that a MM or tourney? UTD Zac is the best G&W, and if you beat him than that's pretty good, unless he lacks Oli experience.
 
Hai Im Fearless

Hai Im Fearless

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My changes to fino's. I'm only going to discuss the matchups that I'm familiar with and have played in tourney frequently.

Luigi becomes 55-45 Luigi's favour.

I've played our best luigi numerous times and in numerous money matches (some as high as 10 dollars). He knows the matchup pretty well, and I've found that proper use of Olimar's jab keeps this matchup from being rediculously hard. I've felt the same thing against toon link.



MK becomes 60-40 MK favour.

This is a hard one to come up with a relatively accurate and consistent number for. I've taken our best player (seibrik) to game 3 in tournament, and in "serious friendlies" I've taken redhalberd (recently just won a tournament beating HRNut and Seibrik in the same tournament) to game 5. I play against HRNut's MK a lot and he usually beats me. He takes full advantage of Olimar's limited options and knows the character so well he won't fall for any tricks (tether to immediatly forward air, nair coming from getting hit upwards etc). So, since I've taken our best MK's to their last game but usually lose to one who knows the matchup very well, without discrediting the fact that he is our second best player, I'm sitting at 60-40 currently. There is still much to learn about spacing this match.



IC becomes 60-40 IC favour.

Recently FL has sprung up a lot of IC players. To name a few Snipa (who got 4th at the last SFL monthly) and X Factor (CFL's best). I've played a few money matches with both and have played X Factor in tournament. After quite a bit of battling IC's, the matchup is still a headache every time. When the situation arises that you are standing right next to them, the RPS-type set of options that both characters have leaves Olimar in a situation where if he guesses wrong, or the IC guesses right, Olimar loses his stock at any percent. This alone, on top of the desynch blizzard approach and overall high priority, leaves me to believe this is a more accurate number.


Diddy becomes 60-40 diddy favour
Pikachu becomes 60-40 olimar favour
Kirby becomes 60-40 olimar favour

I've played FL's best diddy who's also 5th on the upcoming PR a -LOT-. He knows the Olimar matchup very well from extensive wifi practice. He is very good at limiting my options, and prevents me from harming him with bananas that I steal. I've tried soooooo hard to make this matchup work but I still have more to learn.

One of my closest friends at my college who also practices with me often mains pikachu. We play -all- the time. Olimar can space away from any harm pikachu can cause, and pikachu is easily WAC-able in his gimps. Also yellow pikmin rrrraaapppeeee this fight. If you disagree, next time you're fighting pika try harder to keep track of your yellows, and use them effectively.

I've faught a lot of our kirbies, even ones that know the matchup, and the options seem to balance out at this point in the metagame with a slight favour towards olimar; however, we don't have any amazing Kirby players.



Snake becomes 50-50.

I've played our best snake and 2nd player on the PR very very often in these past 2 months. The matchup we most frequent is Snake VS Olimar. He's a good Olimar player, too, and knows the fight amazingly well. We usually go relatively even, with him winning the majority of the matches. He believes as well as I that the fight is 50-50 for whoever plays smarter wins the fight, it's not broken to any either side.


Ness becomes 50-50.

I played our best ness for about 5 - 7 rounds at the last OOS tournament (Halloween bs tournament). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWuzNARZtTI . Smart Ness' will abuse Olimar's lack of priority. Later on in fighting him, I've learned that once again Olimar's jab and high priority nair and tilts keep the matchup about even.



Ike becomes 55-45 Olimar favour.

If I could put the next statement in capital letters I would. -DO NOT-, I repeat, -DO NOT- underestimate Ike. Our best Ike usually gets 5th - 7th at our largest monthly tournaments, basically, he's legit. I've fought him only twice in tournament and it was about 5-7 months ago. He beat me both times. If Ike abuses Olimar's priority problem, and spaces near the edge with intellegence, the fight has potential to be a headache for Olimar. Last saturday, I beat him in a moneymatch, but it was very close.

why did I just post all that lol. feel free to debate \ discuss

vids of me vs hrnut are coming soon.
 
Noa.

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Hai Im Fearless said:
My changes to fino's. I'm only going to discuss the matchups that I'm familiar with and have played in tourney frequently.

Luigi becomes 55-45 Luigi's favour.

I've played our best luigi numerous times and in numerous money matches (some as high as 10 dollars). He knows the matchup pretty well, and I've found that proper use of Olimar's jab keeps this matchup from being rediculously hard. I've felt the same thing against toon link.



MK becomes 60-40 MK favour.

This is a hard one to come up with a relatively accurate and consistent number for. I've taken our best player (seibrik) to game 3 in tournament, and in "serious friendlies" I've taken redhalberd (recently just won a tournament beating HRNut and Seibrik in the same tournament) to game 5. I play against HRNut's MK a lot and he usually beats me. He takes full advantage of Olimar's limited options and knows the character so well he won't fall for any tricks (tether to immediatly forward air, nair coming from getting hit upwards etc). So, since I've taken our best MK's to their last game but usually lose to one who knows the matchup very well, without discrediting the fact that he is our second best player, I'm sitting at 60-40 currently. There is still much to learn about spacing this match.



IC becomes 60-40 IC favour.

Recently FL has sprung up a lot of IC players. To name a few Snipa (who got 4th at the last SFL monthly) and X Factor (CFL's best). I've played a few money matches with both and have played X Factor in tournament. After quite a bit of battling IC's, the matchup is still a headache every time. When the situation arises that you are standing right next to them, the RPS-type set of options that both characters have leaves Olimar in a situation where if he guesses wrong, or the IC guesses right, Olimar loses his stock at any percent. This alone, on top of the desynch blizzard approach and overall high priority, leaves me to believe this is a more accurate number.


Diddy becomes 60-40 diddy favour
Pikachu becomes 60-40 olimar favour
Kirby becomes 60-40 olimar favour

I've played FL's best diddy who's also 5th on the upcoming PR a -LOT-. He knows the Olimar matchup very well from extensive wifi practice. He is very good at limiting my options, and prevents me from harming him with bananas that I steal. I've tried soooooo hard to make this matchup work but I still have more to learn.

One of my closest friends at my college who also practices with me often mains pikachu. We play -all- the time. Olimar can space away from any harm pikachu can cause, and pikachu is easily WAC-able in his gimps. Also yellow pikmin rrrraaapppeeee this fight. If you disagree, next time you're fighting pika try harder to keep track of your yellows, and use them effectively.

I've faught a lot of our kirbies, even ones that know the matchup, and the options seem to balance out at this point in the metagame with a slight favour towards olimar; however, we don't have any amazing Kirby players.



Snake becomes 50-50.

I've played our best snake and 2nd player on the PR very very often in these past 2 months. The matchup we most frequent is Snake VS Olimar. He's a good Olimar player, too, and knows the fight amazingly well. We usually go relatively even, with him winning the majority of the matches. He believes as well as I that the fight is 50-50 for whoever plays smarter wins the fight, it's not broken to any either side.


Ness becomes 50-50.

I played our best ness for about 5 - 7 rounds at the last OOS tournament (Halloween bs tournament). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWuzNARZtTI . Smart Ness' will abuse Olimar's lack of priority. Later on in fighting him, I've learned that once again Olimar's jab and high priority nair and tilts keep the matchup about even.



Ike becomes 55-45 Olimar favour.

If I could put the next statement in capital letters I would. -DO NOT-, I repeat, -DO NOT- underestimate Ike. Our best Ike usually gets 5th - 7th at our largest monthly tournaments, basically, he's legit. I've fought him only twice in tournament and it was about 5-7 months ago. He beat me both times. If Ike abuses Olimar's priority problem, and spaces near the edge with intellegence, the fight has potential to be a headache for Olimar. Last saturday, I beat him in a moneymatch, but it was very close.

why did I just post all that lol. feel free to debate \ discuss

vids of me vs hrnut are coming soon.
Click to expand...
I haven't played the Luigi and mk matchup enough to have my own ratios.

IC is 60:40 their favor only because of desynched blizzard and the infinite. If they had either one of those removed, I'd feel that it would be 60:40 Oli's advantage. But it's definitely a pretty bad matchup now.

I feel the Diddy matchup is dead even. I played GDX, and game one he two stocked on FD, but I took him to his last stock mid percent game two, and he's a much better player than I am. There are so many little tricks that Oli can use that make this matchup really even.

When a bannana hits your shield, you can instantly shieldgrab and it'll be beat all approaches that Diddy has, including grab, shield, and dash attack. The only approach that works for Diddy is if he throws a second banana after the first one.

Oli can use his regular attacks while holding a banana by using a certain AT. I forgot how to do it right now, but it's in the Diddy matchup thread.

There are tons of more stuff in this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=245053

After playing all the CFL pikas, I would say it's 60:40 Oli's favor. But I want to play ESAM before I'm sure on it.

Kirby is definitely 60:40 our favor, Kirby has trouble doing anything against us.

I find Snake to be dead even too. The better player should always win the matchup. I also agree with the Ness ratio.

I don't know about Ike. That's defintely hard for me to believe. :dizzy:
 
Razek

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I feel the Diddy matchup is dead even. I played GDX, and game one he two stocked on FD, but I took him to his last stock mid percent game two, and he's a much better player than I am. There are so many little tricks that Oli can use that make this matchup really even.
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I just want to add that GDX is BY far the biggest sand bagger in the history of sand bagging. Even in money matches that scrub still sand bags. Only way to get a legit match is go to a tourney and get matched up.

When a bannana hits your shield, you can instantly shieldgrab and it'll be beat all approaches that Diddy has, including grab, shield, and dash attack. The only approach that works for Diddy is if he throws a second banana after the first one.
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This implies that a Diddy will approach after the banana is thrown , in which a good diddy won't unless you trip. Even if you can do a bunch of tricks it comes down to this, one trip can lead to you getting edge guarded which means you HAVE to play the fight much more careful and must make fewer mistakes to keep up. Which means to players with equal skill>one will have advantage>not an even match up.

To add to pikachu 60-40 in olimar sounds about right, But The fight can be learned. You have to get him off the ledge and edge guard like a true master. keeping olimar off the ground is a high priority so you don't have to worry about grabs >.<. If you can manage those things the fight is about 55:45 olimar. (That being a best case scenario for poor lil ole pika). I personally believe olimar is one of pika's hardest match ups, but even then still in the realm of possibility, No match up jons thats for scrubs ;)
 
Noa.

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Razek said:
I just want to add that GDX is BY far the biggest sand bagger in the history of sand bagging. Even in money matches that scrub still sand bags. Only way to get a legit match is go to a tourney and get matched up.



This implies that a Diddy will approach after the banana is thrown , in which a good diddy won't unless you trip. Even if you can do a bunch of tricks it comes down to this, one trip can lead to you getting edge guarded which means you HAVE to play the fight much more careful and must make fewer mistakes to keep up. Which means to players with equal skill>one will have advantage>not an even match up.

To add to pikachu 60-40 in olimar sounds about right, But The fight can be learned. You have to get him off the ledge and edge guard like a true master. keeping olimar off the ground is a high priority so you don't have to worry about grabs >.<. If you can manage those things the fight is about 55:45 olimar. (That being a best case scenario for poor lil ole pika). I personally believe olimar is one of pika's hardest match ups, but even then still in the realm of possibility, No match up jons thats for scrubs ;)
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When I played GDX it was in tourney. Not a friendly or MM.

If the Diddy doesn't approach, then we just camp him with pikmin spam. You need proper spacing to not be punished while you're tossing, but it's not too difficult to maintain. Besides, if the Diddy throws the banana at your shield and he doesn't approach, you can jump OoS and Z catch the banana. Oli does pretty well with a banana. Not as good as Diddy, but decent. One trip doesn't lead directly to an edgeguard. A good combo, yes, but it won't always kill Oli. Diddy isn't bad at gimping Oli, but he certainly isn't that much of a threat in comparison to other characters.
 
IcyLight

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i can agree that ic's is ic favor, but not 60-40. 55-45 ic favor. i have learned the mu and i still can't seem to get past his stupid ****, and how he can grab you out of the stupidest **** ever. if they are good technically this matchup becomes a problem because of desync blizzard wall, which if they time perfectly is impenetrable. you can't nair from above because they space their uairs on the corner of our mushroom hitbox now, so so we can't nair through the top. it just requires a lot of patience, i usually just uair plank now or run around. it seems like the only safe option

i can agree 50-50 snake, if the snake is patient he can utilt any of our approaches, dash attack our fsmash or standing grab, utilt us AFTER we grab them if timed properly, he can camp evenly with us, and his dthrow tech chase when used by a GOOD snake is just stupid.

55-45 diddy favor, 60-40 is a bit much. i go about even with top tier diddies like ADHD. i can't beat adhd but our matches are really close, and every other diddy i either go even with or beat. imo if the diddy knows the matchup and knows not to randomly spam glide toss towards you then this matchup gets a lot harder. and diddies are starting to learn that being aggressive without bananas is pretty effective because of priority issues in this mu

50-50 ness i can agree with, just because of his stupid aerial priorities.

i still think we **** kirby, 60-40 self-explanatory

as far as pikachu, i think if they play smart and be really cautious on their approach, this can be 50-50 or 55-45 olis favor. i believe 60-40 is too far in our favor, and should be closer.



lastly, i can 100% agree that ike vs. olimar is extremely underrated. i would say 60-40 olimar. the matchup scares me when i have to fight someone who knows how to fight olimar, i'de rather fight luigi than ike tbh just because of ikes stupid jab , if he spaces/times his aerial correctly he can always jab afterwards before we can shield grab (kimchi does this to me when i had to vs. him offline).

now...the mk mu. imo, 70-30/65-35 MK favor IF they know the mu. They can do pretty much any move and it kills our pikmin in the process, they can nair our recovery even if we whistle it, they can spam uair belwo us and if we whistle it once we can't whistle it again because it's faster than our whistle.

I also agree with FINO. The less skill the mk puts into the matchup the harder it is. When i vs. fatal 90% of his moves are tornado, which is considered spam but he only uses it when im about to attack. It goes through all of our attacks but tether, and you can't nair it if you di out and they know how to space it around you. The only way is to di out, jump, and follow their landing. and even if they do a lagless tornado landing they can still do a dsmash or whatever/invincible sl and kill your nair. This matchup is just stupid when played correctly. I seem to do a lot better against mk's who actually try to play mk with skill, because they don't spam their stupid attacks like tornado.
 
Noa.

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I think people considered it 80:20. But it definetely is a radical change. Can't say I support it, or that I'm against it.

Not until I've played Ryo. He's an amazing Ike in FL, albeit the only one.
 
Nidtendofreak

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Draconoa44 said:
I think people considered it 80:20. But it definetely is a radical change. Can't say I support it, or that I'm against it.

Not until I've played Ryo. He's an amazing Ike in FL, albeit the only one.
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I've never seen 8-2 except for I-n-u-i. But nobody listens to him anyways for good reasons.

/avoiding namesearch drop in
 
IcyLight

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just adding another though, after mk's in my region are finally learning how to fight oli, i'm def. leaning towards 70-30. according to the SWF about matchups, 70-30 would mean they have tools that completely shut out our game and we can still win if they don't know the matchup or if we just severely out play them. that seems pretty accurate to me

his tornado goes through all of our attacks except nair from the top, and even then if they space tornado correctly around us we can't do it.

if we fsmash to space, they tornado

if we side b, they tornado

if they are close to us, they dtilt or grab

if we are off the cliff, well, i don't need to explain it

i just find this matchup almost impossible when in the hands of a good player. i've been an oli main only for the past 1.5-2 years since brawl came out, and now i am learning falco just for metaknight =[
 
Tin Man

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Nidtendofreak said:
O_o

From 3-7 to 44-55?

I think that would be the biggest change in a MU number since...ever really.
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actually the biggest change in matchup ratio is ICs vs MK, went form 30-70 to 50-50 after Apex (or near the apex tourney when Lain took a set of M2k with ICs) now its 45-55 cause M2K learned the matchup pretty much.
 
Dabuz

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IcyLight said:
just adding another though, after mk's in my region are finally learning how to fight oli, i'm def. leaning towards 70-30. according to the SWF about matchups, 70-30 would mean they have tools that completely shut out our game and we can still win if they don't know the matchup or if we just severely out play them. that seems pretty accurate to me

his tornado goes through all of our attacks except nair from the top, and even then if they space tornado correctly around us we can't do it.

if we fsmash to space, they tornado

if we side b, they tornado

if they are close to us, they dtilt or grab

if we are off the cliff, well, i don't need to explain it

i just find this matchup almost impossible when in the hands of a good player. i've been an oli main only for the past 1.5-2 years since brawl came out, and now i am learning falco just for metaknight =[
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60-40, i used to think the same way, but we have the tools to counter their tools, its just no olimar has realized how the matchup should be played
 
BOB SAGET!

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lol, it seems that once they get us offstage it already over. I hate it when that happens. I have a good lead but because of that i lose a stock. Dabuz make a summary or something. lol
 
Sky Pirate

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If this is an appropriate time to do so, I would like to vote for Yoshi as our next MU discussion. I never really see it discussed and it was last called at 55:45 Yoshi, IIRC.
 
IcyLight

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sky pirate, i have green ace in my region. you just gotta out camp him, NEVER get grabbed, they pivot grab just like an olimar but they have a grab that can grab people in the air. if they dash grab you, you can fsmash, and most of his aerials have large priority, so if they are aggressive and not campy just try running away and punish their mistakes

it's like fighting a character thats both olimar and mario
 
Dabuz

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next time i fight ksizzle or anti offline ill ask if i can get the match recorded, assuming i remember how to fight MK still by then :laugh:

the only real thing that i can explain is that all of olimar's defensive options are extremely useless in this matchup (shield, spotdodge, roll, PIVOT GRAB, whistle)
 
Noa.

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I help out the other boards when I know the matchup. I've never played a Mario with Olimar before, so I can't say anything about it. And I don't know enough about Mario to be confident and theorycraft.
 
Sky Pirate

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Thank you, Icy. I was never really understood that since I NEVER fight Yoshi offline.
 
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