Olimar Matchup Thread

[RichBrown]

ICs-Olimar is about even. Use whistle bouncing to make your landing unpredictable. Remember, you don't have to attack ICs if you end up landing on/in front/behind them. You can land->Utilt, or sidestep/roll/whatever.

With desynched blizzards, just jump over it and nair. If you think they might try to Uair you, predict it and whistle, then nair-**** nana and go from there.

If you grab nana, pummel to knock popo away.

Killing nana tip: Don't go after her. Charge a Dsmash and wait for her to walk into it. For some reason Nana is really hard to hit, so I just to this instead whenever I've knocked popo far enough away.

Oh and I learned yesterday that if you jump in front of ICs sideB when they are recovering, it slows them down significantly. Not so useful against 2 climbers, but against popo when he's trying to recover, I'd recommend just jumping out in front of him and whistling. That way if he tries to aerial, you can just attack, and if he sideBs, you slow him down and he dies while you only take 7% or so.

Olimar is really freaking good >.>

 

[Fino]

ICs-Olimar is about even. Use whistle bouncing to make your landing unpredictable. Remember, you don't have to attack ICs if you end up landing on/in front/behind them. You can land->Utilt, or sidestep/roll/whatever.

With desynched blizzards, just jump over it and nair. If you think they might try to Uair you, predict it and whistle, then nair-**** nana and go from there.

If you grab nana, pummel to knock popo away.

Killing nana tip: Don't go after her. Charge a Dsmash and wait for her to walk into it. For some reason Nana is really hard to hit, so I just to this instead whenever I've knocked popo far enough away.

Oh and I learned yesterday that if you jump in front of ICs sideB when they are recovering, it slows them down significantly. Not so useful against 2 climbers, but against popo when he's trying to recover, I'd recommend just jumping out in front of him and whistling. That way if he tries to aerial, you can just attack, and if he sideBs, you slow him down and he dies while you only take 7% or so.

Olimar is really freaking good >.>

If you hit IC (both) while they're squalling, one of them will go into helpless falling animation. Easiest to do with a purple. Since they have to mash sideB to get a greater distance, sometimes when you knock them out and nana goes into hopeless falling and popo does another squal. If you make popo go into helpless falling, nana cannot upB by herself. lol. Either way you just took thier stock.

Also, you can space fsmashes off the ledge so that they fall down and hit popo snaping up (if they try to tether). After that, nana edge hogs popo and he dies (he can't upB, squall or any other tactic to get nana back to him in time to live).


~Fino

 

[RichBrown]

looool that's **** I didn't know any of that. So when they use the upB to get back to the ledge, Fsmashes can actually hit popo? That's broken.

 

[AllyKnight]

I destroyed Dabuz this weekend, hope Dabuz say something about what happened (this is IN PERSON) 3-0ed him.

 

[Zori]

gtfo ally ;-;

dabuz talk to me.......

 

[Dabuz]

I destroyed Dabuz this weekend, hope Dabuz say something about what happened (this is IN PERSON) 3-0ed him.

i would, but im too busy getting dthrow CGed into some sort of offstage gimp

i have never experienced such an evil CG, and the worst part is...i had no idea how to avoid letting you get that close

 

[DanGR]

How close were each of the games? If at all?

 

[Tin Man]

was this recorded :o

Lol at ally getting revenge, he obviously never forgot what happened online.

 

[RichBrown]

Just roll to the edge, or wait a little while before you get up lol

Ally come back to so cal so we can MM like were supposed to the last 2 times I saw you >:|

 

[Dabuz]

Just roll to the edge, or wait a little while before you get up lol

Ally come back to so cal so we can MM like were supposed to the last 2 times I saw you >:|

rolling to the edge doesn't work when his reflexes can be fast enough to do the dthrow infinite on oli


he told me to wait a little after the match >_>

also, WE NEED A WAY TO STOP SNAKE FROM CHASING OLIMAR BASED ON 1 FRAME REACTION TIMING >_>

 

[BOB SAGET!]

i fought SuSa online and he did the same ****ing thing. U can also get up attack if he doesnt think u'll do that.

 

[Llumys]

Obviously.

That's how tech chasing works.

 

[Fino]

he told me to wait a little after the match >_>

That's the advice I always give. Just sleep a little, you don't always have to use an action immediately. The longer you sleep, the harder it is for the snake to react with a grab. You have 4 options, roll left, roll right, get-up attack, get-up. Change them up constantly.


~Fino

 

[Llumys]

It's easy for the Snake to punish you if you stay grounded predictably.

 

[Tin Man]

if you stay grounded, snake can jab, then grab, and ur back to square 1, you have to do something immediately, or u may even eat an Utilt o_O

 

[Greward]

if the snake is clever and grabs u, he will kill you most of the times, olimar cant work around that.

for if someone matters...

Meta Knight - large disadvantage
Snake - even or disadvantage
Wario - even or disadvantage
Falco - disadvantage
Diddy Kong - even or disadvantage
King Dedede - advantage
Marth - disadvantage
Pikachu - advantage
Ice Climbers -even
R.O.B. - even
Kirby - advantage
Lucario - even
Zero Suit Samus - even
Toon Link - even
Pit - advantage
Donkey Kong - advantage
GaW - advantage
Peach - disadvantage
Luigi - disadvantage
Fox -advantage
Wolf - disadvantage
Sonic -advantage
Sheik - disadvantage
Bowser - advantage
Zelda - ****
Pokémon Trainer -even
Ike - large advantage
Lucas - ****
Mario - advantage
Ness - even
Yoshi - even
Samus - ****
Jigglypuff - large advantage
Captain Falcon - large advantage
Link - advantage
Ganondorf -****

lol to fino's matchups

 

[Tin Man]

When will the AiM chat start?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

We will probably start it around 3:00 - 3:30, depending on when I can get a hold of everyone. If you are not someone I talk to often on AIM send me a message (My AIM = Lixth)

 

[TheMike]

We will probably start it around 3:00 - 3:30

Oh, here in Brazil is almost 4 p.m. Timezone sucks...


I'll try to get an AiM account now =P

 

[RichBrown]

Hey guys this is still going on but we haven't really started yet because we are waiting on people, join up!

 

[TheMike]

Are you guys here? I can't find... Sorry I'm dumb at AiM :[

 

[Zori]

Well it's Past 3 but I'm still down to chat

 

[Llumys]

<_<;

I got on AIM when almost everyone was leaving.

I just got home from school.

Can the next one be a little later?

 

[Noa.]

Great chat. Learned so many ways about how to get around the Marth matchup. If we keep doing this, we'll be able to make a mini guide on matchups, lol.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Good stuff guys, we tried to do two matchups but everyone was tired after marth xD
I say we do one hard matchup and one easy matchup from now on and we can fit them both in a day.

Also, next discussion will be next Monday starting at 5:00 pm EST
So more people should be able to join us.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Crap its on aim. I dun have AIM. Should i get it?

 

[MASTERLINKX]

I has AIM, never use it, might just use it for these chats :3

 

[Fino]

Great chat. Learned so many ways about how to get around the Marth matchup. If we keep doing this, we'll be able to make a mini guide on matchups, lol.

If I wasn't too busy studying 3 dimensional vectors, spherical coordinates, and infinite sequences I would have been there. What did we all learn? Can we get a chat log posted?


~Fino

 

[IcyLight]

If I wasn't too busy studying 3 dimensional vectors, spherical coordinates, and infinite sequences I would have been there. What did we all learn? Can we get a chat log posted?


~Fino

we are keeping it a secret however we can personally send you our summary we came up with that basically explained it all

 

[Llumys]

I read the summary. O:

 

[Fino]

we are keeping it a secret however we can personally send you our summary we came up with that basically explained it all

That would be great =D


~Fino

 

[DtJ SquidBurrMoneyBurr]

I struggle with marth Really badly, Its the Fair game that gets to me, and his Priority

 

[Noa.]

So for matchup discussions, whether on aim or in a thread, we should have set definitions in how to define matchups. If we don't agree on simple meanings, then we can't agree on a rating for the matchup.

Honestly, the ratio should just be scrapped, since there are too many ratios to give each a solid definitive meaning. This is how I would rate matchups:

Even
Both characters can equally matchup against each other. Both have enough strengths and weaknesses in the matchup to balance it out. The player who's better will win when both players know the matchup. Kinda easy to explain.

Slight disadvantage
The matchup is winnable by a big margin, but it's apparent that one character has an edge over the other. The losing character still has advantages in this matchup, just slightly less than the other character.

Disadvantage
While the matchup is still winnable, there's an obvious difference in who has the advantage. The disadvantaged character will need to outplay the other slightly to win the match. The character is considered a counter, but barely and without a secondary needed.

Big Disadvantage
This matchup is incredibly difficult to win. You must be slightly better than your opponent to win. Close to no mistakes can be made, or the disadvantaged character will lose horribly. This matchups still do not require a secondary, but it's understandable to use one.

Unwinnable
The matchup can not be won consistently when both players know the matchup. Any decent player with the advanatged character will beat the disadvantaged character, always. Unless there is an immense gap in skill, but it's really big. Secondaries are needed, and the matchup tends to be frustrating.

Obvisously, for the advantages we just go backward.

These are just rough drafts, and together we should make definitions that we all agree upon. This way we can be on the same page as far as determing matchups are concerned.

 

[DanGR]

*agrees with Drac for the most part*

The ratios themselves aren't important. What's important is knowing how to play the matchup.

Also, this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242352
edit: Also, DO NOT POST IN THAT THREAD. IT IS OOOOOOOLD.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Here's how I see it.

50:50 - Completely Even: Entirely dependent on one player playing the matchup better than the opponent. Skill is the major deciding the factor.

55:45 - Slight Advantage: Pseudo-Even matchup. Both characters have advantages against the other, but one outweighs the other's advantages

60:40 - Soft Counter: You still have a good chance at winning, but it will be a little tough. If you aren't better than your opponent by a good amount, though, it's likely you won't win.

65:35 - Counter: It's going to be rough, but still slightly winnable if you completely outplay your opponent.

70:30 - Hard Counter: A very difficult mathup. You should probably get a secondary.

75:35 - Get a ****in secondary

 

[Llumys]

Agreed.

We definitely need to update a lot of the stuff on the boards. I'm willing to do work, but I'm not sure if I'm "allowed". The match-up thread is a work-in-progress, but stuff like the guide, thread compilation, video compilation, stage counter-picks and discussion, etc. need to be updated a lot.

I kinda want pretty and in-depth threads like the other boards.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Well i got aim so i can participate in these matchup discussions. And in my opinion the extra 5 like 55-45 or 65-35 means nothing. I just dont see any difference. I wonder if 6-4 or 7-3 will be a bit better if u want a plain ]numer of the matchup.

 

[Llumys]

The 0-10 system is used in a lot of other games. It's essentially the same thing as advantage/disadvantage/etc.

 

[Tin Man]

I agree with dracona and hilt (they basically have the same definitions).

 

[Noa.]

Hilt and I's definitions are similar, but mine basically mix his definitions of counter and hard counter into one, big disadvantage. I don't like to have too many definitions since it makes it more difficult to pin matchups to certain ratios.