Official "Who is going to return?" topic

[Ipslne]

Yeah, you got a point there shadenexus18. ness should replace his wooden bat with a metallic bat.

Can we get a reason why you'd like the change? I've never played either of the two games in the Mother series, so I don't know what exactly he uses. However, I would suggest keeping it as in-character as possible. As it sounds, a metallic bat wouldn't fit Ness at all.

If Marth & Roy return, there movesets should not be so identical. Someone should be "Luigified," namly Marth. Also, it would be nice if both of them made the roster, they earned it!!

I partially agree with you, and at the same time I strongly disagree. Yes, I would like to see Marth and Roy return. I don't, however, think that Marth (if either of them) should be the one to change. Marth is a very well-balanced character who's fun to play. People who complain about Marth being too powerful are probably playing Marth pros with good spacing. Marth's tip is good, but it requires skill to hit at that point all the time.

Roy, on the other hand, has fire. Fire's different enough, and if you look at the, "Who came first?" and, "Who's more popular?" aspect (because it seems SSB has become a popularity contest) it would seem that Roy is already "Luigified" in respect to Marth.


C'mon, you guys have to start giving reasons for your comments. Otherwise it looks like spineless speculation.

ah-hah, alliterations are aweosme. ;p

 

[Rhyme]

Agreed, alliterations are amazing and also apperantly adoptable. Everyone use them!

But come on...no one remembers the debate we had many a page ago about Marth/Roy? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different topic, but still it has deffinately been disucssed.

 

[Wrath`]

If both marth and roy return,they need to base most of his attacks on speed,not just the aaa ccombo.And for roy make his attack a little bit slower ,but more powerfull.

 

[shadenexus18]

Agreed, alliterations are amazing and also apperantly adoptable. Everyone use them!

But come on...no one remembers the debate we had many a page ago about Marth/Roy? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different topic, but still it has deffinately been disucssed.

Whoops, my bad sis. I'll attempt to come up with a topic that hasn't come up yet to relieve the boredom.

 

[Rhyme]

Whoops, my bad sis. I'll attempt to come up with a topic that hasn't come up yet to relieve the boredom.

I'm not blaming you, nor requesting that it be you who comes up with another topic. It's my fault in the first place for assuming new users wouldn't repeat old topics. Actually, I'm just going to ignore repeats in this topic only, since there's only so much that can be said about returning characters. Everyone go about your lives, I will continue to comment until something worthwile comes up.

If both marth and roy return,they need to base most of his attacks on speed,not just the aaa ccombo.And for roy make his attack a little bit slower ,but more powerfull.

Um...indefinate subject. Do me a favor, re-read your post and tell me who his reffers to.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Marth & Roy return, there movesets should not be so identical. Someone should be "Luigified," namly Marth. Also, it would be nice if both of them made the roster, they earned it!

Don't think so. Sure Marth is a shoe in, but Roy... I'm not too sure. And I don't think it should be Marth who should be Luigified, it should be Roy since his sword is a 2 handed one. Roy slashes his 2 handed sword like a rapier... That's a little weird if you ask me. Or they could give Marth his Fire Emblem shield and Luigify them both, but I'd rather have Ike from PoR to replace Roy.

Roy was just placed in SSBM to promote Fire Emblem 6 in Japan. And I've heard that they wheren't even suposed to be in the English versions of Melee, but as Japanese only characters.

If both marth and roy return,they need to base most of his attacks on speed,not just the aaa ccombo.And for roy make his attack a little bit slower ,but more powerfull.

Your funny... No seriously. You know how broken Marth already is? He can double his most mighty and fastest aeriel move! If something Marth needs to be slowed down. And just to let you know, his A A A combo isn't the fastest "combo" of Marth and Roy there's always the >B.

 

[MasterGary]

why egzactly wud roy need to b slowed down if he's alredy so slow?

 

[Ipslne]

But come on...no one remembers the debate we had many a page ago about Marth/Roy? Or maybe I'm thinking of a different topic, but still it has deffinately been disucssed.

Maybe you're thinking of the CCD thread? Either way, I wasn't around for said discussion. Guess I'm the newbie now xD

Don't think so. Sure Marth is a shoe in, but Roy... I'm not too sure. And I don't think it should be Marth who should be Luigified, it should be Roy since his sword is a 2 handed one. Roy slashes his 2 handed sword like a rapier... That's a little weird if you ask me. Or they could give Marth his Fire Emblem shield and Luigify them both, but I'd rather have Ike from PoR to replace Roy.

I don't understand your logic behind crticizing the way Roy handles his sword. It's a video game. If you want realism in your sword fighting go take a fencing or bushido class. (Or if you're looking for immitation realism, you could always do stage combat!)

Oh my, now we're getting into paradoxical oxymorons. Can we just turn this into a general discussion thread?

Also, I want to make clear the meaning of "Luigify." You cannot Luigify a character and its clone. The word was derived from the relationship between Mario (the original character) and Luigi (Mario's rather unique clone brother guy). So essentially there is no Luigifying Marth. If Marth changes, we have no word for it. It is so far unprecidented to have the original character changed to be different from its clone... for the kind of obvious reason that there hasn't been more than one SSB game with clones as fillers.

*sigh* I gotta stop being so long-winded u_u;;

Your funny... No seriously. You know how broken Marth already is? He can double his most mighty and fastest aeriel move! If something Marth needs to be slowed down. And just to let you know, his A A A combo isn't the fastest "combo" of Marth and Roy there's always the >B.

Marth's double fairs do not justify him being broken. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to short-hop and double fair effectively? If you're getting hit by it, it's because either you're not too good with your spacing, or whoever you're playing against has great timing within his/her shffling. And it really isn't the fastest aerial movie. Try out Pikachu's uair. It's possible to do three times before landing, or once and a bair or fair from a short-hop.

Sry to rant... I have to admit I'm rather biased, but I am trying to take a more objective point of view.

why egzactly wud roy need to b slowed down if he's alredy so slow?

So your clerical skills can catch up to him?

 

[MasterGary]

i dont realy know what u mean by clerical. but ok?

 

[Wrath`]

We need to dump young link.He's just a smaller faster clone.And he's not good.

 

[Ipslne]

i dont realy know what u mean by clerical. but ok?

"Not being able to type on a website is not the same as not being able to spell. It's called not being a clerk or having clerical abilities" - C. L.

We need to dump young link.He's just a smaller faster clone.And he's not good.

Back that opinion so I don't yell at you. Please.

 

[Arthvader]

Can we get a reason why you'd like the change? I've never played either of the two games in the Mother series, so I don't know what exactly he uses. However, I would suggest keeping it as in-character as possible. As it sounds, a metallic bat wouldn't fit Ness at all.

about that reason why i would like the change in ness's bat is because:
1.) It'll be stronger;
2.) could have better knockback than with a wooden bat. and
3.) It would be cool.

The only con i would see in a metallic bat would be the range of the hitbox and as well as the time it'll take for ness to use it because it'll be more heavier than his wooden bat making his hit a little slower.

oh! and one more thing: PK THUNDER (Hits self out of the arena)

 

[Zink]

Calling it now- Doc axed. Mrio has his fair. Roy axed, cuz he's a walking commercial with bad lag, as opposed to Marth. Pichu axed, cuz more than 1 electric mous pokemon is somewhat redundant- there are much better pokecandidates. I think that's it.

 

[Rhyme]

about that reason why i would like the change in ness's bat is because:
1.) It'll be stronger;
2.) could have better knockback than with a wooden bat. and
3.) It would be cool.

But you realize all this is absolutely redundant? If Nintendo want's Ness' bat to have more knockback, they change 2 numbers in the programming. They can do whatever they want to change the attributes of his bat without physically changing it, there is no law against doing so.

I don't understand your logic behind crticizing the way Roy handles his sword. It's a video game. If you want realism in your sword fighting go take a fencing or bushido class. (Or if you're looking for immitation realism, you could always do stage combat!)

He argues the way Roy handles his sword because he has a point. Remodeling his attacks so they match the type of sword his character is known for using is not a bad idea, plus it forces luigification upon Roy, who we all knew needed it.

Oh my, now we're getting into paradoxical oxymorons. Can we just turn this into a general discussion thread?

Now that would be nice. XD By the way, it is XD not xD.

So your clerical skills can catch up to him?

LMFAO, that was great! :rofl:
Marthification...Marthalyze...I don't know. There is no logical reason that the original should change when the clone could just as easily be changed. No reason.

why egzactly wud roy need to b slowed down if he's alredy so slow?

Roy is not slow, he's laggy. Slow means start-up and cool-down lag. Roy's Fsmash lags, but all his ariels have majority cool-down lag. This problem is easily fixed by shffling his ariels into his Fsmash. If you watch a good Roy player, you will begin to understand what I mean about Roy being a fast character. Try starting here before counter-picking my argument.

Don't think so. Sure Marth is a shoe in, but Roy... I'm not too sure.

dot dot dot

Roy was just placed in SSBM to promote Fire Emblem 6 in Japan. And I've heard that they wheren't even suposed to be in the English versions of Melee, but as Japanese only characters.

It's Marth's amazing priority, ability to combo into his tipper, and superior spacing that makes him broken, not a Fair. But I would like to give you props for the idea to redesign Roy to fight more like his sword suggests he should. Also, I have heard that there was more to it then Roy just being advertising. He was supposed to spark interest in the series or something. All I'm saying is I got powershielded last time I used advertising as my reason. As for Marth being a shoe-in...he's deffinately much more likely than Roy, but not as likely as, say, DK or Luigi.


EDIT: I'm so sorry to make this post even longer, but

Calling it now- Doc axed. Mrio has his fair. Roy axed, cuz he's a walking commercial with bad lag, as opposed to Marth. Pichu axed, cuz more than 1 electric mous pokemon is somewhat redundant- there are much better pokecandidates. I think that's it.

Zink forgot Shiek.

 

[Devastlian]

Marthification...Marthalyze...I don't know. There is no logical reason that the original should change when the clone could just as easily be changed. No reason.

Besides providing a fresh experience. I think they should make all the returning characters into luigified clones of their SSBM selves.

Roy is not slow, he's laggy. Slow means start-up and cool-down lag. Roy's Fsmash lags, but all his ariels have majority cool-down lag. This problem is easily fixed by shffling his ariels into his Fsmash. If you watch a good Roy player, you will begin to understand what I mean about Roy being a fast character. Try starting here before counter-picking my argument.

I like how every combo video I see makes the character look God-tier.

Also, quoting you hurts my eyes, Rhyme; so many tags. ; ;

Also, it seems Ipslne has joined the color club.

 

[Ipslne]

about that reason why i would like the change in ness's bat is because:
1.) It'll be stronger;
2.) could have better knockback than with a wooden bat. and
3.) It would be cool.

The only con i would see in a metallic bat would be the range of the hitbox and as well as the time it'll take for ness to use it because it'll be more heavier than his wooden bat making his hit a little slower.

oh! and one more thing: PK THUNDER (Hits self out of the arena)

But you're neglecting that Ness uses a wooden bat in his original game. For what reason would Nintendo change the material of the bat at all? Even more to the point: If Nintendo were to change the strength, knockback, or any aspect of Ness' bat, the thought of the bat's material wouldn't cross their mind.

And from now on could people maybe refrain from definitive words such as "will" and "would" (in some cases). No one knows what's going to happen, so stick with "should" or "I'd like it if..." along with an indepth explaination. Just so we can avoid lame two-line opinions that mean nothing when repeated over and over by people new to the thread.

Calling it now- Doc axed. Mrio has his fair. Roy axed, cuz he's a walking commercial with bad lag, as opposed to Marth. Pichu axed, cuz more than 1 electric mous pokemon is somewhat redundant- there are much better pokecandidates. I think that's it.

I can agree with that sentiment towards Roy because both reasons are true; though I don't think your reasoning on Pichu and Doc is all that solid. As I've explained before, they are very different interms of mechanics (compared to their respective clonees of course).

 

[Wrath`]

Doc realy should go.He was the most clonyest clone there was.The only diffrens was hi outfit and his megavitamins,f smash.Everything else was the same as mario.

Roy needs to stay.He's the only fire swordsman we've got.

 

[Devastlian]

He was the most clonyest clone there was.

OMG I can so picture a little kid saying that. ROFFLE ROFFLE ROFFLE.

The only diffrens was hi outfit and his megavitamins,f smash.Everything else was the same as mario.

Except that his sheet was white and longer, his down B launched people in random directions, some of his stats, I believe, might've been slightly different, his taunt was different, and his attacks had different percentages and directions they launched people.

 

[Wrath`]

Well what did you want me to saylonarific,clontastic,clonified?

Dr. mario should still be cut because not to many people that i know liked him or used him.And he's not even relly a difrent charecter.He's just mario with a PHD.

 

[Devastlian]

Dr. mario should still be cut because not to many people that i know liked him or used him.

Well, that's a pretty specific case especially when you take Antartica's small population into consideration.

And he's not even relly a difrent charecter.He's just mario with a PHD.

And Zero Suit Samus is just Samus without her Power Suit but people still want them as seperate characters.

 

[Ipslne]

Besides providing a fresh experience. I think they should make all the returning characters into luigified clones of their SSBM selves.

That uh... still goes against what Luigification is. Beh I give up on that one.

But you realize all this is absolutely redundant? If Nintendo want's Ness' bat to have more knockback, they change 2 numbers in the programming. They can do whatever they want to change the attributes of his bat without physically changing it, there is no law against doing so.

You need to stop beating me to it...

He argues the way Roy handles his sword because he has a point. Remodeling his attacks so they match the type of sword his character is known for using is not a bad idea, plus it forces luigification upon Roy, who we all knew needed it.

Eh... what I'm missing here is whether or not Roy was actually known for using a two-handed sword, and if it's something essential to his character that the sword be handled with two hands? If that's the case, I completely agree. However, if there is little meaning to him holding the sword with both hands, there's nothing in the laws of gaming that says he should because his sword looks like a two-handed sword.

Also, as of yet I can't find anything on the internets saying anything about this. Anyone have a link for me?

Now that would be nice. XD By the way, it is XD not xD.

It can be xD.... it's just slightly less enthusiastic and psychotic.

Well, that's a pretty specific case especially when you take Antartica's small population into consideration.

And Zero Suit Samus is just Samus without her Power Suit but people still want them as seperate characters.

Thanks for taking care of this one. That guy's lack of any reasonable argument to contribute to discussion, or even an opinion with some sort of justification, was starting to get on my nerves.

 

[Red Exodus]

Why do people keep saying characters SHOULD be cut for the sole fact that they are clones of other characters? Without clones you wouldn't have Fox + Falco vs Marth + Roy. You'd have Fox + Fox vs MArth + Marth.


Clones are unique because they have attributes their original bases don't have. Like Roy's 1 hit KO fully charged neutral B. I've seen some funny stuff involving that move. If it was just original characters SSBM would probably have around 18 characters and some team spirit-less matches [e.g. Fox + Fox, Link + Link etc.]

 

[Devastlian]

That uh... still goes against what Luigification is. Beh I give up on that one.

Well, both characters (IE the clone and the clonee) would be developed as branches of the SSBM clone archetype (animation wise, the animations for some moves could be changed to better represent the result of the cloned characters attack...or something).That's all I was saying. It probably won't go down like that but I think it'd be cool.

Eh... what I'm missing here is whether or not Roy was actually known for using a two-handed sword, and if it's something essential to his character that the sword be handled with two hands? If that's the case, I completely agree. However, if there is little meaning to him holding the sword with both hands, there's nothing in the laws of gaming that says he should because his sword looks like a two-handed sword.

Also, as of yet I can't find anything on the internets saying anything about this. Anyone have a link for me?

Well, here's a video of him using the titular Sword of Seals that he used in SSBM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvw2gj4u_jw&mode=related&search=
In terms of two-handedness...I can't really tell. That first move is a ranged attack, at least, which has potential as a SSB move. The second move which I guess is just his normal attack for that sword which looks like a more elaborate version of his forward smash. I don't know if that necessarily denotes the sword and it's fighting style is two-handed since the forward smash that resembles he uses two hands. Also, the Sword of Seals doesn't seem longer than the Master Sword (proportionally compared to their wielders, at least) which is used one-handed (though I guess they could be of different weights but since they're legendary blades they could be all light and uber-usable in their chosen wielders hands) so I dunno.

Thanks for taking care of this one. That guy's lack of any reasonable argument to contribute to discussion, or even an opinion with some sort of justification, was starting to get on my nerves.

Sure.

 

[Ipslne]

Why do people keep saying characters SHOULD be cut for the sole fact that they are clones of other characters? Without clones you wouldn't have Fox + Falco vs Marth + Roy. You'd have Fox + Fox vs MArth + Marth.


Clones are unique because they have attributes their original bases don't have. Like Roy's 1 hit KO fully charged neutral B. I've seen some funny stuff involving that move. If it was just original characters SSBM would probably have around 18 characters and some team spirit-less matches [e.g. Fox + Fox, Link + Link etc.]

I'm glad to hear someone shares my feelings on this clone bit. The clones do add at least a tad bit more variety than there would have been otherwise. Back before SSBM was really huge, I could imagine just about everyone was excited when they unlocked the clones, despite their small differences.

Well, both characters (IE the clone and the clonee) would be developed as branches of the SSBM clone archetype (animation wise, the animations for some moves could be changed to better represent the result of the cloned characters attack...or something).That's all I was saying. It probably won't go down like that but I think it'd be cool.

I agree with what you were saying, I've just got a beef with the misuse of the word, "Luigify," and its various forms ;p

Well, here's a video of him using the titular Sword of Seals that he used in SSBM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvw2gj4u_jw&mode=related&search=
In terms of two-handedness...I can't really tell. That first move is a ranged attack, at least, which has potential as a SSB move. The second move which I guess is just his normal attack for that sword which looks like a more elaborate version of his forward smash. I don't know if that necessarily denotes the sword and it's fighting style is two-handed since the forward smash that resembles he uses two hands. Also, the Sword of Seals doesn't seem longer than the Master Sword (proportionally compared to their wielders, at least) which is used one-handed (though I guess they could be of different weights but since they're legendary blades they could be all light and uber-usable in their chosen wielders hands) so I dunno.

Last I heard Marth's sword was affiliated with the Wind element. I'm not sure if this is true, but it would surely support your argument. And I stand corrected to a certain extent. It does seem that Roy's a bit of a two-handed boy ;p

This gives me a bit of faith that Roy could have a rather successful upgrade. That is, if Nintendo chooses not to boot him.

 

[Ipslne]

This is a very clourful page :3

o**** rhyme's gonna be pissed I double posted >_<

 

[Devastlian]

I agree with what you were saying, I've just got a beef with the misuse of the word, "Luigify," and its various forms ;p

Ya, we should add it to the list with should, would, most likely etc. that is abused by the denizens of this site.

This is a very clourful page :3

Ya, it seems Red Exodus has joined the color club, as well. :3

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

Hah, I'm not part of the color club XP.

I agree that Roy should use both hands if he returns. His Super attack could be that long range fire attack. Still, I think they should add a FE character who either uses an axe, lance, or magic. They should also have a Fire Emblem stage where arrows will at random times shoot down at the stage. I'm getting off topic with that.

Roy has a lot of potential to be a lot more different from Marth. So does Pichu. Anyone who says Pichu shouldn't return because he looks like Pikachu, is a smaller weaker version and hurts himself, and has too similar moves isn't really giving good reasons in my opinion. Pichu has different moves and can be given more, like Volt Tackle or moves learned by breeding. Somehow, I could imagine Surf being his super move O_o'. He could use the move Present which explodes on impact, or heals team members during team battles. There is a variety he could learn from.

I don't think "one electric rat is enough" is a very good reason for Pichu to leave. There are a lot more swordsmen yet no one is complaining about there being too many swordsmen. Two electric rats from one series isn't too much because they have two from Fire Emblem and two from the Zelda series which the number will probably increase since Ganondorf will probably get a sword along with Zelda. Plus there aren't many characters who's movesets are made mostly out of using electricity. Therefore, Pichu should stay in my opinion.

 

[DynamicDuo]

(I'm just wondering where was that bowser pic we were suppose to get from that kid).

 

[Wrath`]

This is what I think about falco returning.

you know how there is link,y link, and zelda.They are the good guys.And gannon is the 1 bad guy.

well the same could apply for falco.Fox,falco and if there is crystal will make the 3 g guys.And wolf could make the one b guy.

 

[Ipslne]

I wouldn't be against the idea, but I doubt they'd expand on the StarFox characters. The Zelda franchise is much larger. It makes sense that there are more Zelda characters as it is.

 

[Stryks]

The zelda and mario series are, like Ipslne said, much larger, so its only obvious those franchise should have more characters in smash than any other, But I still think it will be Fox, Falco, Krystal and Wolf, like TWoK mentioned...

 

[shadenexus18]

I wouldn't be against the idea, but I doubt they'd expand on the StarFox characters. The Zelda franchise is much larger. It makes sense that there are more Zelda characters as it is.

Yeah, the heart & soul of Nintendo is the Mario, Zelda/Link, & Metroid series, so it's only fair that they get there other protagonists/antagonists on to the game first.

 

[Zink]

I think Pichu is redundant. Look, he has a few different moves, but he is close to the same character. I'd much rather have a non-rat pokemon, or even one that doesn't seem to be drawn from the "smallish and weakish" pool.
As for the swordsmen argument, no. The multiple swordsmen, Marth, Roy, Link, and Ylink are tolerated because they have different styles- not playstyles, but movestyles. Roy's a clone, true, but he also has an excellent chance to be axed or luigified. Ylink is a clone, but I expect him to be axed for redundancy. Either way, Marth and Link, the two more used ones, use their sword in different ways. Currently, Pichu and Pikachu have the same attacks, with somewhat minor stat differences, and with little opportunity for divergence. That's the real argument- whether a particular clone has the potential to be strong separate from the original.

 

[MasterGary]

why do people want zelda to use a sword. this is a state ment i dont realy get. and the whole idea about krystal wud b realy kool with all the moves she wud b able to do with her staff.

 

[Shinku]

people want zelda to use her sword cuz i guess she used it alot on Twilight Princess. and Krystal is a good addition to smash as say, Star Wolf. maybe she really dosent need the staff but all in all, it would be cool.

 

[Rhyme]

Problem is, it's true what MewtwoMaster suggested. Pichu could be different. Pichu supporters are the hardest clone-supporters to convince of anything significant.

Every clone has the potential to be different, so I guess that is one positive? I have recently learned the correct way to play Pichu, and now he is approaching my top characters(6-7th or so), so I understand how Pichu is already different than his oversized counterpart, and he is fun to play. But, I wouldn't be at all dissapointed if he failed to make it into Brawl.

Pichu has a few new special attacks he could draw from, but his physical attacks would be nearly identical so luigification possibilities are limited. Pichu is not a significant character in Pokemon, he was in only 1 movie I believe. To clarify, I don't follow the series but I chatted with YellowMage who is a Poke-fan and he says Pichu is only important because he was the first Baby Pokemon. Baby=younger, less developed=weaker, that's evolution and you can't change that. Also, YellowMage says Pichu was only important in that one circumstance, and once Baby Pokemon were introduced, Pichu's value decreased. Plus he can't be too important if the majority didn't know who he was.

So, Pichu's options in being remade are limited, he maintains sparce importance to Pokemon, and hails from an imaginary realm where young creatures evolve into the stronger, main versions of 'themselves'. He doesn't have much going for him, so I say he gets the AX.

P.S. Why is Red Exodus's color yellow?


EDIT: Ipslne, if you want the comment you just have to be quicker.

 

[Wrath`]

I could still see pichu returing but there are more "cute"pokemon them him so i'm guessing he will be good as gone.As for mewtwo's return,I dont know.He's the only villan pokemon,but thats one of the only things going for him.Jiggalypuff could also be kick out but i dout that will hapen even with a weaker fan base.

 

[Rhyme]

Never! Ever since Smash, Jiggs has become to **** popular to kick out. And people, please, the productivity of mainstream society suffers from every comment like this, blank is cute so blank should stay.

 

[Arthvader]

i don't know, i mean really, some people wants jigglypuff for the reasons like:

1.) S/he's cute
3.) could be cheap with it's down+B attack possibly KO'ing their opponent quickly
3.)S/he's a balloon-type character like Kirby, in which it means that they can float back to the field possibly if their over 150%

some people might dissagree because of the following:

1.) Jigglypuff could get beat up pretty quickly
2.) Some people just hate Pokemon. (Don't include me)
3.) His/er rollout attack can sometimes knock itself out of the stage

so basically, i would say that jigglypuff has about a 50/50 chabce of staying in brawl.

 

[Zook]

Jiggs is an original; therefore, Jiggs should stay.