Official SWF Tier List v8

[BSP]

Sounds more like electric property than priority.

 

[Cassio]

Priority doesnt really exist in brawl, I use the term as something people here are more familiar with to encompass important properties like angles, disjoints, range, etc. In this case electric and stun type attacks tend to be a bit more disjointed than typical standard attacks and cover a wider variety of angles. They also have longer hitstun and maybe something else Im forgetting. Ikes jab1 doesnt quite have the same disjoint but what hurts him the most is the angle since it only hits at a low straight horizontal.

And yes electric attacks dont hurt yellow pikmin, but most attacks just trade without hurting the pikmin or character. For some reason olimars yellow fsmash is an exception and its hitbox stays out, otherwise the worst thing about yellows is they become more difficult to kill and theyre a nice pikmin to have regardless.

 

[Death Arcana]

priority absolutely exists in brawl

 

[M@v]

priority absolutely exists in brawl

Sure does, metaknight has all of it

 

[NickRiddle]

priority absolutely exists in brawl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCpxfUlkWwI

 

[Death Arcana]

Already seen that
And theres ground priority, transcendent priority, etc

not in the air though
Exceptions like glide attack

 

[NickRiddle]

Just checking~

 

[pidgezero_one]

I cant think of a word that rhymes with priority to make a stupid joke out of

you win this round, ****ers

 

[Osennecho]

I cant think of a word that rhymes with priority to make a stupid joke out of

you win this round, ****ers

Majority, minority, or best of all sorority? Your lack of a joke involving the last word disappoints flaoc, Puff, and I.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Somebody needs to listen to more Kanye West.

"I got seniority,
with the sorority."

 

[pidgezero_one]

Majority, minority, or best of all sorority? Your lack of a joke involving the last word disappoints flaoc, Puff, and I.

You try doing it when you're having an emo breakdown at 2am!

 

[da K.I.D.]

who posts on smashboards while having an emo breakdown? also, why would that even happen to you. your life is great.

 

[SoulPech]

Because she's a girl and craves attention more than the D

 

[Espy Rose]

WOAH.
From left field, good sir.

 

[NickRiddle]

WOAH.
From left field, good sir.

And you love it.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Pidge managed to successfully derail the thread by failing at derailing the thread... I am truly inspired and in awe of your talent...

 

[Luco]

Stop it guys, my likes are meant to be given out to privileged posts!

Why does Ike do so well against Falco? Curious. :o

 

[Browny]

Eruption ledgeguard 2pro

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

Flaoc kills about effectively as peach for one thing. And ike lives for days.

 

[Dekillsage]

Falco kills just fine. Stop forcing it and keep throwing your opponents to death because they can't touch you.

 

[Luco]

Falco kills just fine. Stop forcing it and keep throwing your opponents to death because they can't touch you.

Last time a falco tried that to my Ness I tech-jumped off the ledge.

And it was on wi-fi.

Die falco die.

 

[NickRiddle]

Falco absolutely destroys Ike IMO.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I wish Falco destroyed Ike.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Why does Ike do so well against Falco? Curious. :o

I believe its all due to the jab. If Ike can get a jab in, then it does decent damage and launches Falco for follow-up. The enormous disjoint is also problem some to Falco's ability to return to the stage. Another factor is of attrition. Ike has a hefty weight. Falco does not have the easiest set-ups into KOs. Ike on the other hand has a variety of KO moves to harass Falco's return to the stage.

Those are the largest contributing factors it seems.

 

[Dekillsage]

How is ike hitting you? I don't understand!!!!!!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

PS lasers. Shield phantasm. Falco isn't all untouchable anymore.

 

[Dekillsage]

Grab? Grab? Jab?????? GRAB?!??!
Falco is +on block with proper lazer spacing btw. (unless that source is too old and has been corrected)

 

[Tesh]

lasering point blank is just a mixup though, in order to space a laser close enough to the ground to be positive on block/hit, you need to leave alot of "nothing" in the air and at close range its easy for someone to just fair or tilt you out of a mostly empty jump

 

[Luco]

I vote we put Villager, Megaman and WFT in our tier list already.

Villager is the perfect anti-camper. Obviously top tier.

WFT is the new ZSS. Top tier.

Megaman has ridiculous OP moves that take you up like 50% without proof that you can SDI them that well. Way too top tier.

Gee, look at that, they're all top tier. Guess we're buffing everyone else too? :3

On topic: I personally don't believe Falco's that fantastic with a few characters in close range. I think I could see Ike outranging Falco or maybe their jabs would just clash for 5 billion years or something?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Grab? Grab? Jab?????? GRAB?!??!
Falco is +on block with proper lazer spacing btw. (unless that source is too old and has been corrected)

You PS lasers from a far is what I was referring to in order to close the gap. Once you get close enough, then its risky for Falco to just keep lasering like that as Ike can get underneath a laser attempt with dash attack or closeing the distance even more. The advantage off a laser like Tesh side is guaranteed with jab. The advantage is far too low to make sure you will connect with laser -> grab if laser hits a shield. Ike can spot dodge this and in doing so get jab to punish the grab ending lag.

Eventually, you get to the point where Falco is stuck either having to face Ike or try to get away. Trying to get away depends upon where you are on the stage. If closer to the ledge, then your options are very limited. If closer to the middle of the stage you can typically retreat. Anyway, if you have to face Ike, then you get to deal with Jab. And this will stop pretty much most of whatever Falco does that isn't his own jab if you try attacking. Even then, Falco's jab cancels are not guaranteed, (but pretty darn good resulting in 0 to like -3 frame disadvantage). His Rapid jab is punishable by SDI into Bair from Ike.

Anyway, Falco's neutrals are not like MK where you could space SH Fair or Dtilt and be unpunished by most of the cast. Falco's attacks put him at risk and characters like Ike with a very strong jab can get around these little holes in falco's attacks and put him in a bad spot.

 

[da K.I.D.]

dash attack punishes short hop lasers from about half the stage away

 

[1PokeMastr]

Falco can camp, run away, pressure and trap Ike, but, can't kill Ike.
Ike can wreck Falco up close, make Falco wish he wasn't off stage, and kill Falco.

If it wasn't for Falco's pew pew and pressure tools.
I think he'd lose.

Perfect SHL (Silent laser) is +5 on Block.
But, is only +3 for Falco because of the 2 frame Landing lag from the SH.

*0 to -4 on hit (Falco's jab 2)

 

[Dekillsage]

stuff.

You play falco and you are afraid when people are next to you? Stop it with that. You have one of the best jabs in the game along with the ability to choose between doing only the first or two/3 parts of jab. Your grab isn't slow either and your spotdodge is ridiculous. Falco is best up close, stop playing him like a zoner.

lasering point blank is just a mixup though, in order to space a laser close enough to the ground to be positive on block/hit, you need to leave alot of "nothing" in the air and at close range its easy for someone to just fair or tilt you out of a mostly empty jump

Falco has the walk speed to make up for this. Even if it takes a while to set up(doesn't even take that long) he can shoot and walk towards with his lazer that hit your shield.

dash attack punishes short hop lasers from about half the stage away

With ike? It's not slow?. You'd think the second you see ike input dash falco would stop and assume he's going to 1)dash attack 2)dash grab 3)dash block jab/grab mix up and react accordingly.

Hm.Maybe you're right though. If it is fast enough it'll beat short hop attempts similar to how snake does it, if not better. But then that would later go into a player vs player type situation, considering ike commits to a dash attack like that.


Yo whats with you guys thinking falco can't fight people up close when his tools are better than snakes? I don't understand lol

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I have a hypothesis: most players are not good at close range. Playing well at close range is difficult and takes a clear head and focus of thought. I think it's becoming less and less possible to play Falco by spamming lasers because players are getting good at getting around it, and that most Falco players are falling off because their laser cheese isn't working as well anymore.

The reason good Falco players like Larry have stayed relevant is frankly because they are good boxers. When their zoning stops working, they're still scary.

With that said, I think Sage overrates Falco a bit. Falco is terrible off-stage against good players and while he's not as bad at killing as a few people here are making him out to be, he does struggle somewhat compared to other top characters.

 

[Dekillsage]

People who want to play a "zoner" who kills early should be playing Olimar and not Falco.
Falco's not a zoner, he just has a projectile.

 

[da K.I.D.]

With ike? It's not slow?. You'd think the second you see ike input dash falco would stop and assume he's going to 1)dash attack 2)dash grab 3)dash block jab/grab mix up and react accordingly.

Hm.Maybe you're right though. If it is fast enough it'll beat short hop attempts similar to how snake does it, if not better. But then that would later go into a player vs player type situation, considering ike commits to a dash attack like that.

dude, ikes dash attack is practically a teleport considering where you initiate the move from and where the hitbox shows up.

what you arent getting is that the timing is not, ike choosing to dash attack, and falco choosing to keep lasering and getting hit.

its, falco choosing to SH for a laser and ike reacting to it by dash attacking which goes under the high laser and hits the falco before he reaches the ground, thus keeping the silent laser from coming out to begin with.

if falco is only doing one laser per jump, he can jump over the dash attack, but that puts him in a terrible situation too. or he can choose to phantasm in stead of laser, but he might get caught during the start up of that too.

 

[Dekillsage]

So it beats Sh double lazer, but not single? I see it winning, but the question is why is falco still doing it when Ike can dash attack? and also whether or not Ike can do it if he had blocked or got hit by a lazer already. Seems like a neutral game thing where falco is just starting to do sh lazers and ike already stopped him before he got started.

 

[number90901]

Well, I'm probably not qualified, and I probably don't know enough to say this, but I vote that Kirby be raised up a bit, at least to the level of King Dedede, due to his survivability.

 

[da K.I.D.]

So it beats Sh double lazer, but not single? I see it winning, but the question is why is falco still doing it when Ike can dash attack? and also whether or not Ike can do it if he had blocked or got hit by a lazer already. Seems like a neutral game thing where falco is just starting to do sh lazers and ike already stopped him before he got started.

because like I said, ike can do it from half the stage away. its a spacing where falco is typically safe from essentially every other character in the game sans sonic. and if he tries to phantasm preemtively, shielding it would put ike close enough to get in on him. and falco takes a ton of damage from ikes jab.

 

[Dekillsage]

because like I said, ike can do it from half the stage away. its a spacing where falco is typically safe from essentially every other character in the game sans sonic. and if he tries to phantasm preemtively, shielding it would put ike close enough to get in on him. and falco takes a ton of damage from ikes jab.

That's interesting then. I'll look out for it if I ever watch a good Ike vs Falco set