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Official SWF Tier List v8

Gardex

Gardex

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
1,521
Location
Gjøvik/Trondheim, Norway
NNID
Gardex
3DS FC
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Remember when DDD, G&W and ROB were top tiers?
And in the mid tier, where Olimar only was two spots above Zelda, who was right above ZSS?

Good times
 
pidgezero_one

pidgezero_one

((((((((((( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) gotta go fast!
Writing Team
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
4,459
Location
Toronto
NNID
pidgezero_one
3DS FC
3222-5601-4071
^had to double check to see if that was a shiny mewtwo post
 
BlueXenon

BlueXenon

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
1,387
Location
New Jersey
NNID
Blueoceans26
3DS FC
3050-7832-9141
Every time I watch a top ness player, I can never see why Ness is so low on the tier list. His strengths are equivalent to the strengths of a high tier character imo. And being able to kill out a grab combined with good kill moves, is very important in this game. I know he has match ups that he needs a secondary character for, but you can say the same thing for many characters above him, like Wolf, Fox, and DK.
Ness placed 1st at Whobo 4 mid tier singles and 7th in Whobo 4 mk banned singles.
 
Grim Tuesday

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,444
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
BlueXenon said:
Every time I watch a top ness player, I can never see why Ness is so low on the tier list. His strengths are equivalent to the strengths of a high tier character imo. And being able to kill out a grab combined with good kill moves, is very important in this game. I know he has match ups that he needs a secondary character for, but you can say the same thing for many characters above him, like Wolf, Fox, and DK.
Ness placed 1st at Whobo 4 mid tier singles and 7th in Whobo 4 mk banned singles.
Click to expand...

This is neither a mid-tier tier list or an mk-banned tier list.
All of Ness' match-ups are more-or-less accurate, and this is where he ends up because of them. If you want to argue for a higher position, you're either going to have to explain why the characters above him have a worse spread, or why his spread is underrated.
 
ぱみゅ

ぱみゅ

❤ ~
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
10,010
Location
Under your skirt
NNID
kyo.pamyu.pamyu
3DS FC
4785-5700-5699
Switch FC
SW 3264 5694 6605
BlueXenon said:
Every time I watch a top ness player, I can never see why Ness is so low on the tier list. His strengths are equivalent to the strengths of a high tier character imo. And being able to kill out a grab combined with good kill moves, is very important in this game. I know he has match ups that he needs a secondary character for, but you can say the same thing for many characters above him, like Wolf, Fox, and DK.
Ness placed 1st at Whobo 4 mid tier singles and 7th in Whobo 4 mk banned singles.
Click to expand...
DK, Ness, Ike and Sheik all belong in about the same tier where they can be a headache for a lot of High-Tiered characters, but at the end of the day lose to many others, and those few are what hurt their competitive value.
*IMO*
 
Seagull Joe

Seagull Joe

Smash Legend
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
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10,387
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Maryland
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SeagullJoe
BlueXenon said:
Every time I watch a top ness player, I can never see why Ness is so low on the tier list. His strengths are equivalent to the strengths of a high tier character imo. And being able to kill out a grab combined with good kill moves, is very important in this game. I know he has match ups that he needs a secondary character for, but you can say the same thing for many characters above him, like Wolf, Fox, and DK.
Ness placed 1st at Whobo 4 mid tier singles and 7th in Whobo 4 mk banned singles.
Click to expand...
:wolf: only needs a secondary for :dedede:. :ness2: needs a secondary for far more characters.

:018:
 
Desu~

Desu~

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 13, 2012
Messages
742
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Canada, Montreal
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Mr. G-E
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I disagree with one thing though.

Jigglysir, everybody knows Metaknight should be lower on the tier list, right next to fox.
 
Luigi player

Luigi player

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
4,106
Location
Austria
both of these "characters" as you call them aren't real characters. they're toys... a cool robot guy figure and a balloon. it's fun to play with them and they can't do any harm in return. =)

xDD-Master said:
Agreed, Diddy is obviously #1.
Click to expand...
What the hell did u smoke sir? Diddy is high tier at best.
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
4,371
Grim Tuesday said:
Even if G&W weren't retreating the bair, I find it difficult to believe that anyone could SDI entirely through it.

The idea with bair is to hit with the tip of it, this has been the case for years now. So when I laughed at the statement "I can SDI through bair and punish it", I was laughing because he was either talking about a super deep bair (which is like saying Falco's laser is bad because of the horrible ending lag when you do it on the ground) or suggesting something that just isn't possible (at least, in my experience, which is why I wanted to see a video).

I didn't feel like thoroughly explaining my opinion after this "Rah rah, you have no idea what my options are, you've only played against bad Peaches" nonsense. The hypocrisy was too great.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYfunwOt9FU
 
SaveMeJebus

SaveMeJebus

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,371
He extends his hurtbox far enough so most of those attacks will hit either way. I really only posted this to show that you can DI and punish so it doesn't really matter if it's perfectly spaced or not
 
Desu~

Desu~

Smash Ace
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Mr. G-E
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If that was the only video proof about how G&W's bair is useless, then you just blew your entire leg with a shotgun or something.
 
Supermodel From Paris

Supermodel From Paris

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
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New York, NY
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It's really dumb to assume GaW will always space his bair right, plus many characters can move quickly to affect Game and Watch's spacing.

I hate when people on Smashboards act like the attacking player has 100% agency over their spacing or that any player who didn't get perfect spacing just messed up. It is entirely possible to affect an opposing player's spacing and there are also many, many moves fast enough and with enough range to punish a well-spaced bair on shield.
 
Grim Tuesday

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,444
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Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
All moves can be punished when they are mis-spaced, that's not a special thing you can use to discount bair.

It's not some bread and butter move that he requires to be safe or anything either. It's just another tool he has that you throw out every now and again but only when it's going to work and you're damned sure about it.

He spends most of his spacing game facing forward so he has access to dtilt, fsmash, better-range nair, fair, jab.
Bair is used to cover retreats (there is no way it can be spaced "wrong" if you're retreating with it), and less frequently to aggress (and again, this is something you're very in control of).
 
Sünta

Sünta

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
95
NNID
Sünta_Foot
3DS FC
2234-7187-3957
Jigglypuff floats around and dominates heavy characters with his fluffy pink darkness and aerials. He needs to be A rank :p
 
Sünta

Sünta

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
95
NNID
Sünta_Foot
3DS FC
2234-7187-3957
I found my way more entertaining. :chuckle:
 
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