Official SWF Tier List v8

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Jigglypuff floats around and dominates heavy characters with her fluffy pink darkness and aerials. She needs to be SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS rank

fixed

 

[Sünta]

fixed

Sorry, that was a bad typo on my part.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Ok, Jigglypuff is NOT getting to the top of MY tier list.

I mean, come on. Her weight is to laugh at, her strength his terrible, she has terrible dash speed, and is downright dumb.

You want Jigglypuff to be good? Play Melee, but don't get her in my S tier.

 

[Sünta]

Ok, Jigglypuff is NOT getting to the top of MY tier list.

I mean, come on. Her weight is to laugh at, her strength his terrible, she has terrible dash speed, and is downright dumb.

You want Jigglypuff to be good? Play Melee, but don't get her in my S tier.

I was only slightly joshing, no need to dis the Jiggs
I'm going to stop now because I'm attracting a lot of attention.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Ok, Jigglypuff is NOT getting to the top of MY tier list.

I mean, come on. Her weight is to laugh at, her strength his terrible, she has terrible dash speed, and is downright dumb.

You want Jigglypuff to be good? Play Melee, but don't get her in my S tier.

You don't know how things work around these parts, do you?

 

[Rizen]

Well now that we've all relived the 2010 way to beat a poorly spaced G&W Bair again time to move on...
I'd like to hear about the Jiggz/Bowser MU. That gave my Bowser a lot of trouble in the past (need to master the GR>Uair timing ). It's +2 Bowser iirc...

 

[1PokeMastr]

You have a 5 frame window for error.
Go for it!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's slightly Bowser's advantage because of the grab release.
Nothing too absurd because Jigglypuff's spacing game is superior, and he's an easy Rest target (not just due to size, but just the way he spaces and the moves he uses) so Puff can KO early as well.

It's also very feasible to play in such a way so as to avoid the grab at KO%. Puff is, as I always say, very good at waiting for the right moment to strike. It's not a very big deal if you play around Bowser's pretty bad grab.

I'd put it as -1, but I can see -2. Don't want to speak with too much certainty as I haven't played a top level Bowser before, but no top level Bowser has played me either so it works both ways.

 

[Rizen]

Jiggz can be very hard to space if you're caught off guard. I lost to jiggz using G&W until I learned the MU lol. I need to go to training and practice Bowser's GR>Uair. What % will that KO Jiggz at?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Depends what stage and how well it is SDI'd/DI'd.
65% is a good mean, I guess.

 

[1PokeMastr]

The best way to practice is with your toes.

 

[Rizen]

I didn't practice at all before playing friendlies with a local Jiggz player, lol.
Jigglypuff is hard to space even without trying to grab as Bowser. The GR does give him an extra edge but would you say Bowser goes even or +1 vs Jiggz without it?

 

[Luigi player]

I didn't practice at all before playing friendlies with a local Jiggz player, lol.
Jigglypuff is hard to space even without trying to grab as Bowser. The GR does give him an extra edge but would you say Bowser goes even or +1 vs Jiggz without it?

Probably +2

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

All moves can be punished when they are mis-spaced, that's not a special thing you can use to discount bair.

I'm not "discounting bair." Praxis' YouTube video has a really aggressive name, but what he's showing isn't useless just because the bairs in the video were poorly spaced; GaW's bair is not in any way improved by the ability to hit him out of it between hitboxes either. So what if the bairs shown were poorly spaced? Poor spacing happens all the time and at all levels of play because:

1. mistakes happen, and
2. players don't have 100% agency as there is another player that also wants to win. This isn't a single player game.

In addition, spacing affects only range. Range is important, but what about speed? Armor? There are many moves that can hit GaW between the hitboxes of a well-spaced bair.

That doesn't mean I think bair is necessarily bad, but you guys are dismissing something important and useful because "spacing bad, dumb video." GaW has dozens of problems as a character anyway; this is the least of his worries.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

No one is denying that, in fact, no one was even talking about how good or bad G&W is as a character, or how good his bair is

Dark.Pch said, very black-and-white, "If I get baired, I can smash DI out of his bair and get to the other side of him to punish with my bair or nair."
I laughed at this, people were like "wut it's true u can SDI through bair and punish G&W", and here we are now.

If you're not discounting bair, then you're fine lol

 

[Gardex]

In addition, spacing affects only range. Range is important, but what about speed? Armor? There are many moves that can hit GaW between the hitboxes of a well-spaced bair.

Not if the bair is used correctly, which means using it while descending, because that will trigger the landing-hitbox, removing the long timegap between hitboxes.
Descending. Not ascending, which is my biggest gripe with Praxis' video. He mostly just floats in the air with bair instead of landing with it(and when he finally did, he made sure to do it with the worst possible spacing)

Very few moves can punish a well-spaced, descending bair. From the top of my head I can think of: shuttle loop, dolphin slash and maaaybe Bowser's fortress.
Might be a couple more, but those are the only ones I've noticed to be able to reliably punish most bair attempts.

So that's why that video is stupid. The bair-usage is fundamentally incorrect. People can mess up spacing and such, but doing a rising SH bair is pretty dumb and purely inexperience against characters with relatively quick OoS-options.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Mario's Up B can.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

All this stupid **** about Game and Watch caused this thread to die.

Good going guys.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah **** window cleaners

 

[RaptorTEC]

Let's talk about Yoshi.

 

[infiniteV115]

Raptor have you ever played Salem in bracket?
If so how did that go XD

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Let's talk about Yoshi.

Or we could talk about an actual relevant character.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Raptor have you ever played Salem in bracket?
If so how did that go XD

I know where you're going with this and it actually wasn't bad at all. Game 3 last stock and then the most recent time I got 2-0'd but not badly at all. I don't know why every time I play you JUST ****ING BODY THE LIVING **** OUT OF ME.

****ing bully

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I know where you're going with this and it actually wasn't bad at all. Game 3 last stock and then the most recent time I got 2-0'd but not badly at all. I don't know why every time I play you JUST ****ING BODY THE LIVING **** OUT OF ME.

That Blacktwins Experience

 

[infiniteV115]

Blacktwins' Yoshi does better against me...though it still doesn't do well at all. Maybe I'm just really good at the MU or something.

I swear that **** is at least +2 for ZSS though, it's fun fighting a character where jab is safe on shield. In most MUs jab isn't even safe on hit XD

 

[Shaya]

Marth's a character who's safe on shields forever but isn't safe on hit against many characters until the 40-80% (based on weight)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

(shaya marth sucks d00d)
Yoshi is worse though

what is ZSS' answer to egg camping
and I don't mean that in an "oh x beats y" way
but rather, how do eggs influence the MU on both ends, in general

 

[Shaya]

(shaya marth sucks d00d)
Yoshi is worse though

Every character with a low CD move (dash attacks, up tilts, down tilts) and/or uses aerials at all has this problem.
Except MK really... who's base knockback off of his dtilt and dash attack combo 60% of the cast from 0% (which is dumb really... everyone else suffers this problem lol)

 

[Rizen]

^MK, 'nuff said.

I'd like to hear about the Sonic vs Yoshi MU. I know nothing about it lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

^A lost cause
Sonic can't approach, loses trades

 

[Z'zgashi]

In theory, Yoshi ****s all over Sonic, but in practice Yoshi is bad so it's even.

I hate that MU though, I'd rather just go Bowser or Mario since from my experience they do better in it somehow lol.

That or I just like having a usable shield against Sonic, probably that.

 

[Tesh]

Both characters are super annoying. Definitely -4 for spectators.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I can't think of a more stupid matchup than Yoshi vs Sonic.

Except like Kirby dittos.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Sonic dittos are worse.

EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, Kirby dittos would be disgusting.

 

[Luco]

Kirby can't get anything from another kirby.

Kirby ditto MU is -2 already.

Tbh I can't think of any ditto worse than the ICs ditto. It's so hilarious I can't even take it seriously.

 

[Gardex]

Worst? I think you meant to say the goddamn best ditto in the game, right?

 

[xDD-Master]

Olimar Ditto.

 

[Psychoace]

jigglypuff dittos

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Olimar Ditto.

Olimar has insane kill power, insane damage output and is insanely light. Olimar dittos rarely take longer than 3 minutes. It's not that bad.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Blacktwins' Yoshi does better against me...though it still doesn't do well at all. Maybe I'm just really good at the MU or something.

I swear that **** is at least +2 for ZSS though, it's fun fighting a character where jab is safe on shield. In most MUs jab isn't even safe on hit XD

I dunno I'd say -1. I still wanna play you though

Yoshi v Sonic is an extremely boring/stupid mu where both characters just get single hits over and over until both are at kill percent and then someone kills the other in like an hour then you do it all over again. It's very even.