Official SWF Tier List v8

[KuroganeHammer]

:>

 

[Remzi]

I haven't been keeping up with this game for a long time. Anything significant happen lately to warrant ICs being ranked 2nd?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

The only one making this thread off topic is yourself. Valid reasoning that Dedede should not be mid-tier - mainly him destroying the vast majority of mid-tier and being a clear step above the rest of the tier - have been brought up, and then a BBR member, presumably partly responsible for the tier list itself, comes into the thread to QQ about people posting reaction images.

Either man up and discuss the topic at hand or get out.

MMM GURL~

 

[ぱみゅ]

I haven't been keeping up with this game for a long time. Anything significant happen lately to warrant ICs being ranked 2nd?

Not really, only them being wildy popular and the fact the stagelist shrinks every time more and more.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Not really, only them being wildy popular and the fact the stagelist shrinks every time more and more.

lol I wonder why people ever bothered attempting to use more stages anyway. In the end, people generally prefer to avoid having to have complicated set-ups when a 1v1 occurs. Smash64 devolved to only having two stages after many years. I think there has even been some calls to remove Hyrule lol Melee did the same thing reducing to only 5 stages with one CP. It might eventually be removed as well. Brawl has slowly been chipping away the stages since the start.

 

[| Big D |]

Part of it is also being able to execute much better than previous years with lots of new technology being added. Their MU spread is very good on top of that, and the lack of RC/Brinstar as well as a smaller starter list improves almost if not all of their MUs.

[collapse=Ice Climbers Desyncs]

[/collapse]

 

[Dre89]

Seriously?

The point of a mid-tier tourney is to allow mid-tier. If you do not allow mid-tier, it is not a mid-tier tourney.

As far as allowing King Dedede into mid-tier is, i think this tier list is a joke.

This is my only problem with this list, aside from Jigglypuff being far too high.

The DDD tier can simply function the way ban tiers do in Pokemon. For example, pokemon in the ban tier for UU aren't good enough for OU, but are too good for UU. They are essentially UU-level pokemon that are OP in UU. The DDD tier can simply be interpeted the same way. They're mid-tier in terms of viability, but are too good for mid- tier tourneys, thus they can be banned.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

The DDD tier can simply function the way ban tiers do in Pokemon. For example, pokemon in the ban tier for UU aren't good enough for OU, but are too good for UU. They are essentially UU-level pokemon that are OP in UU. The DDD tier can simply be interpeted the same way. They're mid-tier in terms of viability, but are too good for mid- tier tourneys, thus they can be banned.

There is no they. The only character in mid-tier who should not be there is King Dedede.

 

[Dre89]

There is no they. The only character in mid-tier who should not be there is King Dedede.

Well that is a different point to your initial argument.

You're initial qualm was that banning characters listed in mid-tier from MT tourneys defeats the purpose of said tourneys. Saying that DDD shouldn't be in mid-tier is a different point altogether.

 

[FourStar]

first off this C+,C- crap is kind of ridiculous. just keep it a letter and stop adding + and -. second i still feel that even i though i like pikachu alot more, ZSS and pika should swap places. and finally switch marth with snake's spot and boom i think that would be a much better tier list. but of course what do i know?

 

[Jrugs]

Ive been playing this game competitively for a while, but what does the tier list do any way? Especially in 2013?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Well that is a different point to your initial argument.

You're initial qualm was that banning characters listed in mid-tier from MT tourneys defeats the purpose of said tourneys. Saying that DDD shouldn't be in mid-tier is a different point altogether.

I do not have the words.

Who do I talk to to see about having you removed from the Smash Debater group? Clearly somebody made a mistake.

 

[Jrugs]

No seriously do ppl even still host mt tourneys in 2013? o.O whats the point of this list?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Smash64 devolved to only having two stages after many years.

False, Smash 64 uses 4 stages.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

No seriously do ppl even still host mt tourneys in 2013? o.O whats the point of this list?

 

[Jrugs]

Your right all the countless and mains will run all the mid tier tournaments and ruin the game. Cuz mid /high tier mains are notorious for playing this game to the fullest lol! XD

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Your right all the countless and mains will run all the mid tier tournaments and ruin the game. Cuz mid /high tier mains are notorious for playing this game to the fullest lol! XD

The fallacies... I feed from them yes. Yes, keep them coming!

I await the ad hominems from my own Brawl scene quite eagerly.

Dedede completely dominates every character below him with the exception of Sheik and Fox. Two matchups does not make a mid-tier. To say he is not a step above mid tier is to be ignorant of the game as a whole.

 

[Jrugs]

im not saying he doesn't dominate....... Im saying it's 2013! XD
this doesn't seem like a real problem in the smash community as well as a need for a new tier list. Seriously what does this tier list even do?

 

[Z'zgashi]

D3 will **** the **** out of all Mid Tier tournaments and I have no idea how anyone in their right mind can deny that.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

im not saying he doesn't dominate....... Im saying it's 2013! XD
this doesn't seem like a real problem in the smash community as well as a need for a new tier list. Seriously what does this tier list even do?

This tier list acts as a front for a fairly sophisticated crime syndicate, actually. We're not supposed to know about that though.

 

[Shaya]

Enough with the gifs.

 

[Jrugs]

oh snap will steal all the 10$ pots. XD

 

[ぱみゅ]

Ive been playing this game competitively for a while, but what does the tier list do any way? Especially in 2013?

To generate drama.
Lots of drama.
Over the simplest things, like the name of a tier.

 

[Jrugs]

To generate drama.
Lots of drama.
Over the simplest things, like the name of a tier.

yeah, this guy gets what Im saying .Tiers are just irrelevant (especially in 2013) . When you see get beat up by character 'X' 20000000 times it gets old. whats the point of tiers, it just gives people a reason to blame their characters. XD

 

[ぱみゅ]

Tier lists are not unnecessary though, they reflect how well a character is expected to perform at any given tournament (I think), and as this metagame is constantly changing, the list is, too.
It can be a good informative reference.

Some people just care too much about some details on it though.

 

[Dre89]

I do not have the words.

Who do I talk to to see about having you removed from the Smash Debater group? Clearly somebody made a mistake.

This is what I was addressing-

Seriously?

The point of a mid-tier tourney is to allow mid-tier. If you do not allow mid-tier, it is not a mid-tier tourney..

This is what my ban-tier comment was about. You then mentioned DDD not being a mid-tier, and I said that was a different point to having a ban tier.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I await the ad hominems from my own Brawl scene quite eagerly.

You know that's just how we show we care

e.g.
[12:28:44 AM] STEF: No your a noob bich *** ****weed
[12:29:05 AM] STEF: Titgargling trash ***
[12:29:16 AM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: LOL
[12:29:18 AM] STEF: **** im mad.
[12:29:50 AM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: You tree-****ting horse weiner
[12:38:43 AM] STEF: The hell?
[12:38:47 AM] STEF: That was uncalled for
[12:38:58 AM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: no
[12:39:08 AM] STEF: ya
[12:39:11 AM] STEF: *******
[12:39:36 AM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: LOL
[12:40:13 AM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: *****
[12:49:14 AM] STEF: **** u

[05/02/2013 10:50:30 PM] swordgard: yeah, your mom really is a *****

[12:25:04 PM] Anojan Palarajah: well there's a surprisingly large number of people here
[12:25:52 PM] Ben O'Remss: r u calling me fat?
[12:32:23 PM] swordgard: yes

[8:05:32 PM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: Swordgard is a *****

[4:48:28 PM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: SM YOU SCUMBAG
[4:48:34 PM] Shiny Mewtwo: ?
[4:48:42 PM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: YOU'RE USING THE TAG V115
[4:48:44 PM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: ON THE CHAT
[4:48:47 PM] Shiny Mewtwo: No I'm not
[4:48:56 PM] Shiny Mewtwo: I'm not even in the chat atm lmao
[4:49:01 PM] Vishal 'V115' Balaram: SWORDGARD YOU *******

K I think that's enough examples

 

[Jabejazz]

Look up Stunfisk in the anime, you will **** bricks.

Just thought I'd give a status report on this.

Dayum son, **** is trippy as ****.
It's like that one party where I didn't take LSD, but if I had taken some, it'd be trippy.

To generate drama.
Lots of drama.
Over the simplest things, like the name of a tier.

I read drama as "happy fun times".

Enough with the gifs.

Mods = Gods.

 

[Delta-cod]

DDD isn't even that good guys, relax. I don't know where this "domination" of midtier and below comes from when he has at least 3 non-winning MUs.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lol, 'at least 3', D3 has 1 MU that he loses in Mid Tier, but its only a -1 and its against Fox who has quite a few awful MUs that you could easily hard counter with a secondary. Every other MU is at the least even for D3, and he completely shuts down at least 50% of the characters below him. A good D3 will be a HUGE problem in Mid Tier tournaments, ESPECIALLY if he has something along the lines of a pocket Sheik or Kirby, since he'll have literally no bad MUs and hard counter at least a third of the legal characters.

 

[Luco]

I will admit that I believe DDD is somewhat too powerful for mid tier tournies, if we're going to address that manner.

That said I accept people may allow him in there... I just dunno what the reception to that would be.

However, why didn't you complain before, Bowser, in v7 when they said pretty much the exact same thing about Borderline tier? People decided back then whether to include and they can decide now. Why bother getting up in arms about it if no-one's going to have DDD/Lucario in mid tier tournies anyway? That's why I asked.

 

[Dre89]

Lol, 'at least 3', D3 has 1 MU that he loses in Mid Tier, but its only a -1 and its against Fox who has quite a few awful MUs that you could easily hard counter with a secondary. Every other MU is at the least even for D3, and he completely shuts down at least 50% of the characters below him. A good D3 will be a HUGE problem in Mid Tier tournaments, ESPECIALLY if he has something along the lines of a pocket Sheik or Kirby, since he'll have literally no bad MUs and hard counter at least a third of the legal characters.

So you're saying that being good with a character that has a few awkward MUs and having a secondary is a problem?

Also, MT tourneys shouldn't have any say in the construction of the tier list. If D3 should be above mid tier, it should be because he is distinctively more viable than the mid tier characters, not because he would cream everything in MTs.

 

[-LzR-]

Why is Dedede being way above the cast in midtiers such a problem if MK being even better compared to the whole cast is not?
Besides, just call them C-tiers or something, it doesn't matter really.

 

[Luco]

Also, MT tourneys shouldn't have any say in the construction of the tier list. If D3 should be above mid tier, it should be because he is distinctively more viable than the mid tier characters, not because he would cream everything in MTs.

I know you weren't responding to me here Dre but I thought since my statement could be misconstrued i'd clear it up, seeing as you brought up a good point:

In reference to this statement...

I will admit that I believe DDD is somewhat too powerful for mid tier tournies, if we're going to address that manner.

It doesn't mean I think he should or shouldn't be in mid tier. Personally I feel as though mid tier should be slightly smaller because IMO even using distinctions such as 'upper' and 'lower' and whatever else, it's a tad too vague in it's wording. Like, mid tier should be mid tier, right? Not 'stuff all the characters between top and bottom in here and call it a day' tier.

That said, I acknowledge and even support Kyo's point, even if it was sarcastic. I think the BBR is coming from the point that they did when they decided to make MK a case by case decision in terms of legality. However, IMO there aren't many people who would consider DDD a mid tier, unlike the rather large split in the community when it comes to MK - there aren't many who would say 'okay lets get DDD and Ness and have them in a mid tier tournament because this makes Ness more viable!', you see what I mean? When you look at it this way, suddenly the naming for tiers does become somewhat significant.

All that said, I believe DDD shouldn't really be in mid tier in any shape or form quite yet, by his own standards, thus you can see why I make the points I do. But that can be settled another day.

 

[Delta-cod]

Lol, 'at least 3', D3 has 1 MU that he loses in Mid Tier, but its only a -1 and its against Fox who has quite a few awful MUs that you could easily hard counter with a secondary. Every other MU is at the least even for D3, and he completely shuts down at least 50% of the characters below him. A good D3 will be a HUGE problem in Mid Tier tournaments, ESPECIALLY if he has something along the lines of a pocket Sheik or Kirby, since he'll have literally no bad MUs and hard counter at least a third of the legal characters.

I'm gonna parrot Dre. on this one. How is a character that "requires" a secondary an issue now?

Also, thanks for agreeing with me on the "at least 3 non-winning MUs" point. DDD must really be a problem with his entirely positive spread against mid tier and below, though.

 

[Dekillsage]

Someone point me in the direction of all these mid tier tournaments?

 

[NAKAT]

D3 sucks...

 

[NickRiddle]

D3 sucks...

As bad as your Wario vs. Salem on Saturday~

 

[NAKAT]

As bad as your Wario vs. Salem on Saturday~

That's fine o.O

 

[FourStar]

I dont see how people think D3 is still considered good even when so many characters have so many advantageous matchups against him