Official SWF Tier List v8

[Dekillsage]

Wasn't being rude. That was my legitimate answer.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Ah...forgive me, I felt it was rather mockingly. :/

 

[BeeKay]

smh, ics though

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anyways, Diddy is so much better than Marth.

 

[SoulPech]

So, uh...question:

Why is Diddy Kong so high on the tier list? I know Bananas are ridonculous, but what else gets him to the placings he gets?

1) Good recovery
2) Banana combo and banana trips
3) Most of his moves come out fast and has good range/good priority
4)Good gimp options
5) Banana infinite lock

 

[Dre89]

He's also got good mobility with his natural speed, sideb and glidetosses.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Also great spike. Great projectiles, can build up damage like a beast. Good combo-ability. Item play. Great approaches.

I am still puzzled Marth is only 1 place below him.

 

[MegaRobMan]

Lylat's one of Wolf's best stages.

Yeah if it wasn't for the ledge that would easily be wolfs best stage, imho. Still more of a neutral than PS1. Still more of a stage than CS since that's like not even a real stage.

Also most people in North America can't read properly (see Seagull Man and V11S) so don't worry about the fact that people can't comprehend my comprehensive reasoning parts.

DDD actually has a solid advantage against important Top tier characters like Marth, Snake, Wario (although he's High tier) and can most likely stand a decent chance against Falco, ZSS and maybe even Pikachu. He's worse MUs that don't give him breathing space are MK, Olimar and ICs, of course.
Toon Link doesn't perform too bad himself, having an advantage over ICs, going even against Diddy Kong and Pikachu, and a decent chance against Falco, Olimar and Marth. His only really bad MU is MK, his only -2.
I don't know too much about Lucario honestly, but going even against ICs, Falco and ZSS may probably be something one would take too lightly.

I'm actually curious to see the "matchup chart" of Lucario-Fox on the new tier list.

I mean, troll and all, I'm a TO and at minimum kind of responsible for reviving my entire scene, the MW:W, so I'd like a bit of info. I mean, I'm probably not going to let the next tier into Mid-tier tournaments either, ROB/Peach would work. Kinda sucks that the #3 and #4 players in my state main ROB/Peach, but oh well.

 

[Dre89]

Also great spike. Great projectiles, can build up damage like a beast. Good combo-ability. Item play. Great approaches.

I am still puzzled Marth is only 1 place below him.

The spike is pretty rare in competitive play and whilst the popgun allows him to popgun cancel, he would still be top tier without it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy's D Air is soooo ****ing sexy and satisfying though. Can't think of no other move that feels so right to succeed a gimp with.

 

[infiniteV115]

Also most people in North America can't read properly (see Seagull Man and V11S) so don't worry about the fact that people can't comprehend my comprehensive reasoning parts.

So you imply that I can't read properly, and then you call me V11S...

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Still the fact Diddy has it is a nice little bonus. The one reason I can think of it coming in handy is against snake. Get snake to recover low and force to UpB, then free chance to spike.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It works good against Olimar to. And Ice Climbers mostly.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

So you imply that I can't read properly, and then you call me V11S...

infiniteVIIS

 

[Ishiey]

So you imply that I can't read properly, and then you call me V11S...

Why did you fall for it. I thought you were better than that

 

[MegaRobMan]

Ish don't clue people in on my humor!!!!

Otherwise, JJ see's the photo. And you know you don't want that.

 

[infiniteV115]

Why did you fall for it. I thought you were better than that

I'm better than everyone.

 

[SoulPech]

Also great spike. Great projectiles, can build up damage like a beast. Good combo-ability. Item play. Great approaches.

I am still puzzled Marth is only 1 place below him.

ok ok ok. that's enough meatriding.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No meat. Straight Bananas yo.

 

[Luco]

The more I think about it, the more I personally believe the lack of movement on Lucas' behalf is kind of confusing. I think that Lucas' 9th at SKTAR (an MK legal tournament btw) says that he shouldn't just go into the next tier but should actually shift a placement above characters like Luigi who can't seem to hold it up as well. I was personally surprised by the fact that Lucas showed no actual placing movement whilst Ness did because when I was talking about my predictions, many people told me that whilst Lucas was entirely and absolutely reasonable to go up, Ness had a tougher time because, as I believe Marc said, he often ends up flying under radar a little. I personally believe Lucas should be around the 28th/27th spot, which in this tier list would put him directly behind Ness (which is something i'd advocate for, yes), however just seeing him at, what, 29th or 28th would have got me saying that the movement was justified and reasonable. Having him in the next tier whilst moving him nowhere is kind of.... eh.

And that's the reason I think very few people have brought it up. Heaps of people thought Lucas should have gone up and iirc the community voting had him at 28th. When the shifting of him into mid tier happened this time around, it was like "well we wanted him up spots but I guess if he's a mid tier... I think I just won't bring it up lest I be called out for 'asking too much' ". I mean, not entirely literally but you see my point. I personally believe the fact that there are no Lucas mains (and I think Ness as well) in the BBR somewhat contributes to this and while i'm not necessarily calling out the BBR on their stance, i'd ask that they take a look again at his results (9th at SKTAR, all three top lucas mains in the top 128 at apex) and think about what the characters around him have done that, results-wise justify their position above him. I also believe this was one of the instances where the MU chart probably would have worked in Lucas' favour and thus the fact that we didn't wait for the MU chart v3 after it was specifically said by people that it would be used does slightly disappoint me.

I know I am biased because of my experience as a Lucas main and my belief that he should rise but from my experience, it's not like Lucas mains are the only ones saying he should have risen in terms of position above Luigi/PT.

I accept that I am not a top player and don't necessarily have the weight to influence much but this is my firm belief and if I stand for nothing else, I'll stand for this.

 

[AllyKnight]

:zZzzZzzzZZzzzzZzZzzz:

 

[Luco]

:zZzzZzzzZZzzzzZzZzzz:

I was just trying to make a point.

 

[ShadowLink84]

A rose by any other name, would it still smell as sweet?

Poor analogy, though I approve the attempt.
Tiers represent significant gaps in capability from one rank to the other.

MK is only 1 rank higher than Ice Climber's, but his capabilities are significantly higher than IC's which warrants the creation of a tier to signify that gap.
It is after all, called a Tier list, not a ranking list.

So yes, it is a reason to debate.

Your are essentially trying to state that a tulip is a rose. There is a clear difference between the two, other than being flowers.

The characters in upper tier list of DDD and company are clearly better than those below them, which is what warrants a change in Tier placement.

EDIT @ clow, the first G in KIDGoggles is also capitalized. Please and thank you.

No one cares.

 

[Luco]

lol @ the 'Lucario, DDD and TL are in mid tier' thing.

The whole point is that you can choose if you want them in or not in your tournaments. Why is this a problem? =/

 

[ShadowLink84]

lol @ the 'Lucario, DDD and TL are in mid tier' thing.

The whole point is that you can choose if you want them in or not in your tournaments. Why is this a problem? =/

If DDD and company are significantly better than those they are grouped with, then they need to be placed on a higher tier.
Tierlists represent character capability in comparison to each other.
Otherwise, I'd like every character to be put into a "playable" tierlist for Mid tier tournament purposes. =\

 

[Luco]

But that's another issue altogether.

The issue I think is being discussed is, 'DDD and company should not be on the mid tier anywhere because they wreck mid tier parties.'

Then I say 'well mid tier parties don' have to include them so why bother?'

Whether they should be in their own tier because their viability is better than fox/G&W/Wolf/Pit/Peach/ROB/you get my point, is slightly different.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

King Dedede is mid tier...

 

[ShadowLink84]

But that's another issue altogether.

The issue I think is being discussed is, 'DDD and company should not be on the mid tier anywhere because they wreck mid tier parties.'

Correct.

Then I say 'well mid tier parties don' have to include them so why bother?'

I am failing to understand how the concept is so difficult to grasp.
According to your logic, we should do the following.

Stick everyone except MK in low tier and then say "well low tier parties don't have to include them so why bother changing their tier?"
Again, tierlists represent significant gaps in capability, mid tier/lowtier/imaginary tier based tournaments should have no relevance.
A character gets stuck in X or Y tier because of its capability, not because some TO wants to broaden the roster.
That defeats the purpose of a Tier list.

Tier tournaments base themselves off the tierlist, not vice versa.

 

[Luco]

The only reason i'm using that logic is because of the way the tier list is now. I'm not saying DDD and the like SHOULD be in mid tier. I'm saying that, since they are, if you hate it that much, just don't use them.

If everyone except for MK WAS stuck in LT for some crazy reason, then yes, I would say the same thing because OBVIOUSLY I don't believe anyone in their right mind would have a 'low tier' tourny with both Ganon and ICs, haha.

Basically, what i'm trying to say is 'make the most of a bad situation', rather than arguing to change the situation itself because I acknowledge I don't have the power to do that.

 

[ShadowLink84]

The only reason i'm using that logic is because of the way the tier list is now. I'm not saying DDD and the like SHOULD be in mid tier. I'm saying that, since they are, if you hate it that much, just don't use them.

Or...even better.
We debate the matter to provide evidence that suggests the current tierlist is incorrect in its suggestion and should be altered.
Just a thought.

If everyone except for MK WAS stuck in LT for some crazy reason, then yes, I would say the same thing because OBVIOUSLY I don't believe anyone in their right mind would have a 'low tier' tourny with both Ganon and ICs, haha.

*facedesk*

Basically, what i'm trying to say is 'make the most of a bad situation', rather than arguing to change the situation itself because I acknowledge I don't have the power to do that.

Um...
No thanks, better to change things than sit there and eat it like a fool.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

The only reason i'm using that logic is because of the way the tier list is now. I'm not saying DDD and the like SHOULD be in mid tier. I'm saying that, since they are, if you hate it that much, just don't use them.

If everyone except for MK WAS stuck in LT for some crazy reason, then yes, I would say the same thing because OBVIOUSLY I don't believe anyone in their right mind would have a 'low tier' tourny with both Ganon and ICs, haha.

Basically, what i'm trying to say is 'make the most of a bad situation', rather than arguing to change the situation itself because I acknowledge I don't have the power to do that.

Seriously?

The point of a mid-tier tourney is to allow mid-tier. If you do not allow mid-tier, it is not a mid-tier tourney.

As far as allowing King Dedede into mid-tier is, i think this tier list is a joke.

This is my only problem with this list, aside from Jigglypuff being far too high.

 

[ShadowLink84]

That chick scares me...

 

[Luco]

Or...even better.
We debate the matter to provide evidence that suggests the current tierlist is incorrect in its suggestion and should be altered.
Just a thought.


*facedesk*

Um...
No thanks, better to change things than sit there and eat it like a fool.

Personally I believe DDD should not be mid tier either. Please take my point on this. What i'm saying is that for now, the BBR has taken a lot of criticism in regards to the new tier list and may not receive so kindly to being screamed at to change everything.

@Bowser: Remember that it wasn't me who made this. I think the idea behind it is to say "You get to decide where to cut off mid tier as opposed to 'this is mid tier, deal with it this is what you're using'". =?

 

[Peachy-Desu]

This is a nice looking tier list now just remove D3 from mid tier.

censor dodge

 

[Supreme Dirt]

WAIT WHY IS LUCARIO ABOVE DEDEDE

somebody has some explaining to do.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

the large images and gifs are annoying

you are not fuujin

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yet my posts contribute more to the topic than yours.

GGWP

 

[Peachy-Desu]

the large images and gifs are annoying

you are not fuujin

Someone's jealous, and Bowser rocking dat shade.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yet my posts contribute more to the topic than yours.

I doubt throwing a fit about a bad character and posting a bunch of gifs would ever be considered "contributing" in my eyes, but whatever.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I doubt throwing a fit about a bad character and posting a bunch of gifs would ever be considered "contributing" in my eyes, but whatever.

The only one making this thread off topic is yourself. Valid reasoning that Dedede should not be mid-tier - mainly him destroying the vast majority of mid-tier and being a clear step above the rest of the tier - have been brought up, and then a BBR member, presumably partly responsible for the tier list itself, comes into the thread to QQ about people posting reaction images.

Either man up and discuss the topic at hand or get out.