SoulPech
Smash Master
Oh I read his post correctly. I was expecting a more direct approach.
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Official SWF Tier List v8
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
*logs in to laugh at ICs having their own tier*
I don't even have to lurk that much to know that is completely out of whack with zero basis behind it. Man up and fix it already. No "wait until next tier list", no "but the community AND Backroom both voted them into second by a majority!", just move them. Small edit, flew clicks. We all know its mad stupid, don't pretend otherwise.
*also lols at Marth moving up, Lucas in mid tier for doing nothing, and C+ not being high tier*
I don't even have to lurk that much to know that is completely out of whack with zero basis behind it. Man up and fix it already. No "wait until next tier list", no "but the community AND Backroom both voted them into second by a majority!", just move them. Small edit, flew clicks. We all know its mad stupid, don't pretend otherwise.
*also lols at Marth moving up, Lucas in mid tier for doing nothing, and C+ not being high tier*
Except getting 9th at SKtar
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
quadforce picture NAO~
also, lol ICs
also, lol ICs
It's because he's a wolf main lol.
rurounikenshin
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2012
- Messages
- 15
I believe Pika´s nair doesnt stale either.
Btw: I have a question: Why is Ness so low in the tier list? I mean, I know he has grab-release and gimping issues, but Wario has Grab release problems too iirc and Olimar is also weak to getting gimped, but they are way higher. I am not saying he is top tier, but he does have some really nice moves (especially his aerials) and tools in general, plus, his MU spread doesn´t look that bad.
Excuse if i am not seeing something important, im still really noobie.
Btw: I have a question: Why is Ness so low in the tier list? I mean, I know he has grab-release and gimping issues, but Wario has Grab release problems too iirc and Olimar is also weak to getting gimped, but they are way higher. I am not saying he is top tier, but he does have some really nice moves (especially his aerials) and tools in general, plus, his MU spread doesn´t look that bad.
Excuse if i am not seeing something important, im still really noobie.
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
Personally I think Ness should be where sonic is but maybe he isn't as good as I think he is.
Omega Tyrant
Smash Champion
Pikachu's nair does stale.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Cool. Now, I have a bad rebuttal against people complaining about Snake/Falco.
"Marth is higher on the tier list. He is a more stupid character."
"Marth is higher on the tier list. He is a more stupid character."
Too many flaws hindering what would otherwise be a pretty awesome character.
Wario and Olimar may have similar flaws but they have better tools to hide those flaws. Wario's mobility makes him much harder to grab, and olimars spacing game makes him alot harder to lob off the edge.
Ness probably does deserve to be higher, but he's held back by a lack of representation. =/
DeLux
Player that used to be Lux
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2010
- Messages
- 9,302
In other words:
What if Wario had the gimping problems of Olimar, or if Olimar had the grab release problems of Wario? Bastardized hypothetical to an extreme, but kind of puts into perspective why having both problems is seen as such an issue for the character despite his other extremely high tier like qualities.
What if Wario had the gimping problems of Olimar, or if Olimar had the grab release problems of Wario? Bastardized hypothetical to an extreme, but kind of puts into perspective why having both problems is seen as such an issue for the character despite his other extremely high tier like qualities.
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
I don't think I have much to disagree with on the current tier list. What I don't like, as silly and insignificant as it may be- The new gaps. I don't really see people like Lucario, DDD and even Toon Link as Mid-tier material.
DDD actually has a solid advantage against important Top tier characters like Marth, Snake, Wario (although he's High tier) and can most likely stand a decent chance against Falco, ZSS and maybe even Pikachu. He's worse MUs that don't give him breathing space are MK, Olimar and ICs, of course.
Toon Link doesn't perform too bad himself, having an advantage over ICs, going even against Diddy Kong and Pikachu, and a decent chance against Falco, Olimar and Marth. His only really bad MU is MK, his only -2.
I don't know too much about Lucario honestly, but going even against ICs, Falco and ZSS may probably be something one would take too lightly.
So yeah, mostly just a peep complaining about labels.
DDD actually has a solid advantage against important Top tier characters like Marth, Snake, Wario (although he's High tier) and can most likely stand a decent chance against Falco, ZSS and maybe even Pikachu. He's worse MUs that don't give him breathing space are MK, Olimar and ICs, of course.
Toon Link doesn't perform too bad himself, having an advantage over ICs, going even against Diddy Kong and Pikachu, and a decent chance against Falco, Olimar and Marth. His only really bad MU is MK, his only -2.
I don't know too much about Lucario honestly, but going even against ICs, Falco and ZSS may probably be something one would take too lightly.
So yeah, mostly just a peep complaining about labels.
o-Serin-o
I think 56 nights crazy
Random visits to SWF to see that there's a new tier list.
Haven't kept up with smash in forever, but Jesus, this tier list is all types of wacky to me. Why aren't D3, Lucario, and TL, in a "B-" type tier?
Haven't kept up with smash in forever, but Jesus, this tier list is all types of wacky to me. Why aren't D3, Lucario, and TL, in a "B-" type tier?
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
A solid advantage against Marth and Snake?
Also Pika wrecks DDD from what I've seen of ESAM
DDD:Snake is arguably even. Results show it could be more in DDD's favor, though.
DDD:Marth is definitely in TripleD's favor, granted not as much as DDD:Wario, so maybe solid isn't the most accurate term.
Pikachu does beat DDD pretty hard, but if you're not ESAM, it's definitely not as terrible, and Pikachu players are scarce to begin with, let a lone a showstopper.
I apologize in advance for the seriousness of my post.
DDD:Marth is definitely in TripleD's favor, granted not as much as DDD:Wario, so maybe solid isn't the most accurate term.
Pikachu does beat DDD pretty hard, but if you're not ESAM, it's definitely not as terrible, and Pikachu players are scarce to begin with, let a lone a showstopper.
I apologize in advance for the seriousness of my post.
Luco
Smash Hero
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- dracilus
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My first time seeing this new tier list! My opinions, both on it and its reception:
@Lucas: I'm glad he moved out of LT but still going nowhere makes me somewhat depressed. But still, it's an achievement and i'm super happy. <3
@Ness: Finally! =D
@ZSS: Interesting, have to agree with Xenon that I expected a bigger jump from her but perhaps the BBR decided to pull back on this one and didn't want to go overboard? Ah well, it's not bad IMO.
@Reception to ICs as 2nd/in their own tier: I can't say i'm too downed by it - Japan has the exact same thing. It's one of the few chars where I believe a placing for them can be based on theoretics but I dunno really. Personally I kinda don't mind it. ^_^
@Lucas: I'm glad he moved out of LT but still going nowhere makes me somewhat depressed. But still, it's an achievement and i'm super happy. <3
@Ness: Finally! =D
@ZSS: Interesting, have to agree with Xenon that I expected a bigger jump from her but perhaps the BBR decided to pull back on this one and didn't want to go overboard? Ah well, it's not bad IMO.
@Reception to ICs as 2nd/in their own tier: I can't say i'm too downed by it - Japan has the exact same thing. It's one of the few chars where I believe a placing for them can be based on theoretics but I dunno really. Personally I kinda don't mind it. ^_^
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
Well, by "solid" I mean "decent". Probably wasn't the best term indeed. 8P
And well, reguarding what you said about Pikachu- It's ESAM. And what kind of players has he faced? I'd like to see that myself. Personally I don't think the MU is too bad.
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
They're both +1s. I'd say it's possible for Snake to go even against DDD, but that's just my experience (and I'm bad at that MU). In tournament results, DDD wins more.
I'm pretty sure DDD beats Snake. We had a lengthy discussion about this in the V7 thread, and pulled out matches from many recent top Snakes vs top DDDs... In which just about every one of them the top DDDs won. That's not even mentioning how top Snakes despise playing against DDDs enough to CP to other characters, pretty much saying that at the top level of play, it's THAT uphill of a battle.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
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- Dec 10, 2009
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- 2,251
Nah, I think the Snake's will argue again that they don't lose to a mid tier :3
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Snake is and will always a top contender. More by believe though.
Mmm... Tasty...
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
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Editititititititititit
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
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Looks like he could have had a V8.
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
DDD doesn't beat snake. It's even at worst for snake.
If snake lost to a midtier we(I) wouldn't argue.
Pause
Pause!!!!
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Snake has some of the best tools in the game for practically any stage, match-up, and situation. The only draw back is they all rely upon him to be in an advantageous position or in a neutral setting. As soon as he gets airborne, he sucks.
Given the other characters above him he shouldn't be dropping anymore than this.
Given the other characters above him he shouldn't be dropping anymore than this.
FredFuchs
Smash Apprentice
Going back to the pikachu v Ddd thing, there was that set between 4god and esam. I didn't see the first two games, but 4 god did pretty well in the last game
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Dat avatar
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
Imo Falco is better than snake and snake is better than marth. Honestly no one is that amazing when airborne except for MK who still has some trouble landing vs some people.(Not very much unless its vs zss or something). Snakes is just the easiest to do it against, but to balance out this con he has weight to compensate. It also isn't that hard for snake to return to neutral vs a lot of the cast. Metaknight, Marth and Olimar are the three I feel its hardest to return to neutral vs, but vs everyone else snakes chances of bringing the game to a halt and into his pacing isn't impractical at all.
Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
MK NEVER has trouble landing if he doesn't get greedy and try and counter their juggling attempts.
SoulPech
Smash Master
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
So, uh...question:
Why is Diddy Kong so high on the tier list? I know Bananas are ridonculous, but what else gets him to the placings he gets?
Why is Diddy Kong so high on the tier list? I know Bananas are ridonculous, but what else gets him to the placings he gets?
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Well MK can give MK problems landing sometimes, but even then not really lol.
Dekillsage
Smash Lord
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
Don't be rude, that was a serious question.
I admit Diddy Kong may have the craziest KO setups, but he has a rather hard time killing, similiar to Falco in the way their KO power is rather lacking. Not saying KO power by itself is important, but being next to champs like ICs, Olimar and Snake...yeah. He doesn't have ICs' CG, Olimar crazy momentum gain (and KO power) and Snake's amazing weightclass and excellent KO potential (and power, but by "potential" I mean that he doesn't have a hard time getting the kill).
I admit Diddy Kong may have the craziest KO setups, but he has a rather hard time killing, similiar to Falco in the way their KO power is rather lacking. Not saying KO power by itself is important, but being next to champs like ICs, Olimar and Snake...yeah. He doesn't have ICs' CG, Olimar crazy momentum gain (and KO power) and Snake's amazing weightclass and excellent KO potential (and power, but by "potential" I mean that he doesn't have a hard time getting the kill).