Official SWF Tier List v8

[1PokeMastr]

The only disappointing thing I had about my last NJ trip was the horrendous set I had against nickriddle (we both hated it though, so our <3 only grew fonder) . Maybe yoshi mu johns from a week later, but I wasn't the only victim that day.

But in all seriousness though, I've yet to have a training partner in this game that hasn't conceded Marth's amazing, eventually. haha. The only minor exception has been a Donkey Kong player.

I think I like this Dk player, who is he ?

 

[Man Li Gi]

I read what you said and I really can care less. The tiers have been static and shall stay static with a character moving up one or two places at most. Top tier will be the same top tier and low tier will be the same low tier.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

unless they are massively underrated, like gengar

also, the phrase is "couldn't care less", "can care" doesn't really mean anything useful

 

[1PokeMastr]

Dk is #1
Jiggs is #2

Jiggs/ Dk swap a lot due to there being 1 more Jiggs main than Dk mains, meaning she has results that "trump" Donkey Kong's placings, despite Dk outplacing Jiggs consistently at events.

Sometimes on rare occasions a Metaknight outplaces both of them, but there are far too little Metaknights to determine whether or not the character is actually good, it comes down to match up knowledge and with the amount of Metaknights floating around (essentially none, they can get away with a lot of jank that the top tiers aren't aware of) so for now, Metaknight remains in the same tier as Luigi, almost low tier.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I believe gengar is underrated, but other characters are more underrated like DK and Wolf, but due to poor representation or competitive base, we do not appreciate the characters (SGJ is a great Wolf player, but name more Wolf mains that still play today. Will, Attila, and Pokemastr are really the only names known for their maining of DK). Wolf has 6 frames of invincibility on his downb, transcendent b, one of the best bairs, and a fast dsmash. Also Wolf has an oos in the usmash and high air speed.

 

[Emblem Lord]

How can you have an accurate tier list when the best character's full power is shackled by arbitrary rules? Those who say everyone sucks except MK are correct. He is the only character truly made to handle this game engine and play both offense and defense and see a lot of success. And what does the community do? Tie him down so everyone else can compete.

Bah. It's folly. If you have to do that, then there was never a "competition" to even begin with.

 

[Nemy]

Pit is underated. I think he deserve to be in high tier. Peach is also underated but high tier is a bit much for her.

 

[Emblem Lord]

People say that word alot on this site.

I don't believe they know what it means, or they use it incorrectly to convey the thought that "insert random decentish character" is secrectly good.

Pit COULD be higher but ACTUALLY high tier?

lolwut

 

[Man Li Gi]

He is in Japan....

 

[Nemy]

High tier or the highest mid tier. His matchup with ICs is even or +1 rather than -1. He has lots of even matchups with higher tiers (some possibly in his favor) and his worst matchup is, you guessed it, -2 MK (His only -2 MU btw)

I dont even have much trouble with MK as Pit either. But to be fair I havent played any of Floridas top MKs yet. I dont think we have many.

 

[Emblem Lord]

What matches vs the top tiers favor him? I do not believe he beats IC's. Break down that match. I COULD see it as even since he doesnt have to get close but not his favor.

 

[Nemy]

What matches vs the top tiers favor him? I do not believe he beats IC's. Break down that match. I COULD see it as even since he doesnt have to get close but not his favor.

I dont have time to make a longer post about other MUs but Snake and ICs are two that I think are +1.

As for ICs mu, I personally have never lost to an ICs. Not only can Pit keep away very easily, but his multi hit moves disrupt the climbers so well. It just creates chaos for them. Once Pit gets them in the air and starts juggling we can extend strings with arrows and disrupt them even more. Once seperated Nana is very easy to kill (sniping/wall of pain/gimps) if we pay attention to PoPo and keep him out with arrows.

 

[NickRiddle]

I dont have time to make a longer post about other MUs but Snake and ICs are two that I think are +1.

As for ICs mu, I personally have never lost to an ICs. Not only can Pit keep away very easily, but his multi hit moves disrupt the climbers so well. It just creates chaos for them. Once Pit gets them in the air and starts juggling we can extend strings with arrows and disrupt them even more. Once seperated Nana is very easy to kill (sniping/wall of pain/gimps) if we pay attention to PoPo and keep him out with arrows.

You're probably really bad.
Pit is good on paper, and terrible in practice.

Also, FL has no MKs so beating them doesn't matter.

 

[Desu~]

Forget the Mango part.

And eat your words PKBeam.

Have a nice day Freex.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I believe gengar is underrated, but other characters are more underrated like DK and Wolf, but due to poor representation or competitive base, we do not appreciate the characters (SGJ is a great Wolf player, but name more Wolf mains that still play today. Will, Attila, and Pokemastr are really the only names known for their maining of DK). Wolf has 6 frames of invincibility on his downb, transcendent b, one of the best bairs, and a fast dsmash. Also Wolf has an oos in the usmash and high air speed.

Can't comment on Wolf, but I used to play with a DK a lot.
While he handles his 'bad' match-ups better than people think (i.e. Falco, Pika, etc...) he still loses pretty convincingly to the best two characters, and Dedede. That'll always keep him down, unfortunately.

Pit is underated. I think he deserve to be in high tier. Peach is also underated but high tier is a bit much for her.

I still don't understand why Pit doesn't place well tbh, cause I agree completely - he IS underrated. Do all Pit players just suck, or what?
Peach is slightly underrated, yeah.

 

[Nemy]

You're probably really bad.
Pit is good on paper, and terrible in practice.

Also, FL has no MKs so beating them doesn't matter.

Its not that im really bad, just the people I play most often arent good. Every once in a while I can get a good match. I still feel Pit/ICs is at least even.

 

[PKBeam]

Forget the Mango part.

And eat your words PKBeam.

Have a nice day Freex.

wut this is melee i wuz talkin bout brawl

 

[Man Li Gi]

Forget the Mango part.

And eat your words PKBeam.

Have a nice day Freex.

If we are going are to talk about Mango and M2k, M2k holds a winning record against record against Mange, but holds an even or losing record against Dr Nanny (DR PP).

Can't comment on Wolf, but I used to play with a DK a lot.
While he handles his 'bad' match-ups better than people think (i.e. Falco, Pika, etc...) he still loses pretty convincingly to the best two characters, and Dedede. That'll always keep him down, unfortunately.
That is why I was making stronger case for Wolf because it seems like even less people use him. I have been using Wolf for about 3 years and I am just surprised that he is not higher than at least TL and Lucario.

 

[NickRiddle]

Its not that im really bad, just the people I play most often arent good. Every once in a while I can get a good match. I still feel Pit/ICs is at least even.

If there was no LGL, Pit could get a lead and run forever and make it an even or +1 MU.
Because of the LGL, ICs body Pit.

 

[Player -0]

MK ledge camping?

Lolwut, we have Pit ledge camping.

Pit's loss of Up-B once he gets hit out of it hurts him a lot. I wonder how much better he would be if he got WoI back. Would be a ROB esque recovery without aerials from Pit.... (Actually that's how it is now.... Just focus on the keeping/getting WoI when hit)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

How does the LGL work currently? Does it only come into effect when stocks are tied, or does it supersede everything else when the game times out? Does it even need to time out for the LGL to matter?

If Pit only needs a stock lead to win, the LGL doesn't matter really, he'll definitely be able to take a stock safely before 8-10 mins are up.
Even if he can't plank at all, I can't see ICs *bodying* Pit, he can platform camp, separate and **** Nana up just as well as anyone else lol

Also, did anyone else see Vex getting the Dedede infinite on Snake at Apex with remarkable consistency? Holy **** guys.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Also, did anyone else see Vex getting the Dedede infinite on Snake at Apex with remarkable consistency? Holy **** guys.

Holy crap really? Against whom? Vids?

 

[NickRiddle]

How does the LGL work currently? Does it only come into effect when stocks are tied, or does it supersede everything else when the game times out? Does it even need to time out for the LGL to matter?

If Pit only needs a stock lead to win, the LGL doesn't matter really, he'll definitely be able to take a stock safely before 8-10 mins are up.
Even if he can't plank at all, I can't see ICs *bodying* Pit, he can platform camp, separate and **** Nana up just as well as anyone else lol

Also, did anyone else see Vex getting the Dedede infinite on Snake at Apex with remarkable consistency? Holy **** guys.

If a game goes to time, LGL is the first thing you look at.

Also, ICs body Pit the same way ICs body most of the cast. Pretty much everybody can camp and kill Nana, but they all pretty much lost to ICs because they're silly.

Vex is a God.

 

[Djent]

I must've missed it. Sadly I wasn't around for much of Brawl on Sunday (or did it happen in pools play?)... I am under the impression that D3 doesn't really have an advantage over Snake as things currently play out, but if more players start landing the infinite consistently...damn.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I saw it on stream, he was just practicing against CPUs but it was still pretty insane
I'll look for the time signature later and link it here later, if someone else doesn't link it first

If a game goes to time, LGL is the first thing you look at.

Also, ICs body Pit the same way ICs body most of the cast. Pretty much everybody can camp and kill Nana, but they all pretty much lost to ICs because they're silly.

I agree that they all *lose* to ICs, but I don't think they body anyone outside of the ****-tier characters tbh
They're too volatile

Vex is a God.

Who did he lose to? I heard he got upset by a Sonic?

 

[BlueXenon]

I saw it on stream, he was just practicing against CPUs but it was still pretty insane
I'll look for the time signature later and link it here later, if someone else doesn't link it first


I agree that they all *lose* to ICs, but I don't think they body anyone outside of the ****-tier characters tbh
They're too volatile

Who did he lose to? I heard he got upset by a Sonic?

He lost to Manny and Fatal.
Anybody who lost in pools automatically lost their round 1 set in bracket.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Lucario loses to everyone.

 

[PKBeam]

no, he's even with ganon

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

nah he loses to Ganon.

 

[Aidebit]

Lucario Gauntlet for Apex 2015.

 

[PKBeam]

he's even with Ganon because even though he has a slow, laggy aerial game with a bad ranged Fsmash, his nearly ungimpable recovery and quick Usmash give him a fighting chance offstage and on the ground, plus Ganon is not good enough in the air to take advantage of Lucario's weakness high up.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Seikbrik will win for a third time with DDD.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Lucario is even with marth as well as ganon imo

 

[Seagull Joe]

I believe gengar is underrated, but other characters are more underrated like DK and Wolf, but due to poor representation or competitive base, we do not appreciate the characters (SGJ is a great Wolf player, but name more Wolf mains that still play today. Will, Attila, and Pokemastr are really the only names known for their maining of DK). Wolf has 6 frames of invincibility on his downb, transcendent b, one of the best bairs, and a fast dsmash. Also Wolf has an oos in the usmash and high air speed.

Never seen my name abbreviated SG before loool, but ok. has 8-9 frames of invincibility. Shine comes out on frame 1 and lasts till frame 8 or 9 (I can never remember which). You can extend this invincibility with ledgehop shine, which is what I do most of the time to get back on stage safely (Through nado/SL even).

His Usmash is great for punishing (It does 18%), but only punishing. Though, it can combo from Bair if you Dacus at mid percents.

You're probably really bad.
Pit is good on paper, and terrible in practice.
Also, FL has no MKs so beating them doesn't matter.

sucks.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Never seen my name abbreviated SG before loool, but ok. has 8-9 frames of invincibility. Shine comes out on frame 1 and lasts till frame 8 or 9 (I can never remember which). You can extend this invincibility with ledgehop shine, which is what I do most of the time to get back on stage safely (Through nado/SL even).

His Usmash is great for punishing (It does 18%), but only punishing. Though, it can combo from Bair if you Dacus at mid percents.

sucks.

It was SGJ not SG jeez Seagull lrn2read I thought you were a teacher or something gosh

And yeah, sucks.

 

[L∈O]

Well, I think Pit's current position is the most correct for him...

But I don't think he sucks...

For me he's a more or less character...

 

[1PokeMastr]

Invincibility in this game does not stack, so a "perfect ledge hop shine" would have 21 - 23 frames of invincibility, because of the usual 46 given, but can let go on frame 23.
Some characters can let go earlier, etc.

If you wanted the.. 32 frames of invincibility, you would have to time the shine right after the ledge hop invinci ends.. which would be really.. slow ?

Stuff.

I'd say more, but all I care about is Donkey Kong's invincible ledge hop punch.
WITH SUPER ARMOUR.

SO YOU STILL WIN IF YOU'RE OFF BY TWO FRAMES OR SOMETHING

DK FOR KING

 

[Seagull Joe]

Invincibility in this game does not stack, so a "perfect ledge hop shine" would have 21 - 23 frames of invincibility, because of the usual 46 given, but can let go on frame 23.
Some characters can let go earlier, etc.

If you wanted the.. 32 frames of invincibility, you would have to time the shine right after the ledge hop invinci ends.. which would be really.. slow ?

's shine comes out on frame 1. Under normal circumstances it would not stack, but if you time the shine at the correct moment then it basically adds more invincibility frames.

 

[1PokeMastr]

If you shine on frame 24 you technically end up with 32 starting from the ledge to shine
But if you shine during the ledge hop invincibility, it does not stack, unless you shine at the end of it.. which still isn't stacking.

 

[Shaya]

Where did seagull say 'stack invincibility', I'm pretty sure he said 'extend'ed.