Grim Tuesday
Smash Legend
No he doesn't.
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Official SWF Tier List v8
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
Yes he doesn't
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
Maybe he might.
Luigi player
Smash Master
DKs bair is good because of its great range, iirc it's also frame 7, and can kill when fresh. Dunno the %, but I don't think it's too big of a difference to Wolf.It hits harder (slightly), but it isn't safer to use. It's also got a much larger hurtbox.
's bair is good because it comes out on frame 6, has very good range, can auto-cancel, cannot be shield grabbed when spaced, can string into itself, does 13% fresh, and can kill when not stale.
It also doesn't have much lag on landing, and the hitbox is out quite long (it also has a weak hit).
Wolfs bair is better on landing (less lag), and Wolfs airspeed also helps making it better. But for the bair itself I'd say I like DKs more.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
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Where's Loki ?
Also, Wolf's Bair is better in every way, range wise, Dk has more, but it's not safe at all.
If Dk had 9 frames of landing lag instead of his.. not 9, he might have a really great bair.
Or even if it didn't stick his hurtbox way out there.
His feet have no hurtbox though, so that's decent.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
this thread...
:I
actually...this website.....
:I
actually...this website.....
Desu~
Smash Ace
You should befriend Tarex right now.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
I consider myself a good friend to tarex lol we used to play all the time
Sar
Smash Journeyman
Pikmin1211
Smash Journeyman
Why must everyone hate on Game N Watch? So much better than Fox and Wolf.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Leon sucks against ICs for the record.
inb4 assumptions, no, I'm not saying anything about the Marth:ICs or Marth:sopo MU. All I'm saying is that Leon specifically is terrible (or so he claims) against ICs (with Marth)
inb4 assumptions, no, I'm not saying anything about the Marth:ICs or Marth:sopo MU. All I'm saying is that Leon specifically is terrible (or so he claims) against ICs (with Marth)
It's pretty hard to argue somebody being bad at a matchup when nobody has ever proven himself to be good at it though. Leon hasn't done worse against IC players than Ramin, Mikeneko or Neo have.
lol
lol
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
I guess that's fair (
). And obviously friendlies don't count for much but when I was housing Leon at Impulse he was consistently losing to Blacktwins (with Marth)
). And obviously friendlies don't count for much but when I was housing Leon at Impulse he was consistently losing to Blacktwins (with Marth)NH Cody
Smash Champion
mikehaze is still the only marth good vs ics
Susi
Smash Apprentice
Marth grab releases Popo into every aerial. In other words we kill him out of a grab.
Marth match up rules:
Kill him out of a grab? +4. Unless its MK, +1
Everything else: -2.
It helps he cannot CG us really at all either.
Marth match up rules:
Kill him out of a grab? +4. Unless its MK, +1
Everything else: -2.
It helps he cannot CG us really at all either.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Why the **** is a SoPo match up even being discussed?
NH Cody
Smash Champion
because it is smashboards.com.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Marth loses to Yoshi confirmed.
PKBeam
Smash Lord
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It makes all the low tier mains feel good about themselves bc they have a positive MU that isn't Ganon.
Sar
Smash Journeyman
It's this kind of thinking that makes people lose to sopo.
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
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I'd much rather discuss why Nana is the best character in the game.
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Nana is the only char that +2s ICs
In terms of Popo's solo viability, he's terrible as he has one of the worst recoveries in the game (along with like, Link, Ganon, Ivysaur), terrible grab range, Luigi syndrome (everything's safe on his shield because he slides too far), specials are punishable on hit, moves do no damage, etc. Bottom tier tied with Zelda/Ganondorf.
But in terms of being able to put in work before he dies, the solo chain-grab is really neat, and if they're at kill % it only takes one read to get an up-smash, which kills at reasonable %s.
Sopo doesn't need to be able to rack up damage/close out stocks by himself, but I guess people go into the sopo matchup thinking they should never get hit, and then get frustrated when popo gets a grab or a string against them. Really that's just ignoring the fact that sopo can do some things decently, even though he doesn't have the tools to function as a solo character all the time.
But in terms of being able to put in work before he dies, the solo chain-grab is really neat, and if they're at kill % it only takes one read to get an up-smash, which kills at reasonable %s.
Sopo doesn't need to be able to rack up damage/close out stocks by himself, but I guess people go into the sopo matchup thinking they should never get hit, and then get frustrated when popo gets a grab or a string against them. Really that's just ignoring the fact that sopo can do some things decently, even though he doesn't have the tools to function as a solo character all the time.
I dispute jiggs:sopo being >0
PKBeam
Smash Lord
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for who?
lmfao sopo, WHAT OFFSTAGE GAME?!?!111
counterargument: jigglypuff
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
How in the **** can Sopo be bottom tier with his dthrow CG, uair, bair, and fsmash. Those alone at least make him better than 70% of low tier, maybe even better.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
sopo can do more damage with cgs than falco 
I guess that's it then.sopo can do more damage with cgs than falco
Tier list v9:
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Puff
SS MK
S ICs
A+ Olimar Diddy
A- Marth Snake Sopo Falco
...
Z- Fox
Man Li Gi
Smash Lord
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- ManLiGi
If DK used his freaking humongous fist instead of his dinky legs, there would be no discussion as his hurtbox would not be as exposed, better range, and better power. Dunno what the lag would be tho.
Man Li Gi
Smash Lord
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- ManLiGi
DK's fresh bair is 13-14%. Wolf's is superior in lag (short duration tho), but DK's can WoP characters with average to below average recoveries. DK's is not the most safe on shields and it is his main/only means approaching aerially, so it won't be fresh enough to kill (usually).
Foolish double post
1PokeMastr
Smash Champion
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Why would Dk approach through the air ?
How the **** can Jigglypuff be bottom tier with her Bair, Side-b, Dair, Grab, dash attack, aerial mobility, etc. Those alone make her better than 70% of low tier.
Oh wait no they don't (well if we assume the tier list is accurate), just having some good tools doesn't make you better than other low tiers.
Most low tiers have some strong traits, just overcompensated for by crippling weaknesses, popo's no different.
"jiggs should be at least high tier, her dair beats nado"
-an unnamed jigglypuff who may or may not be some girl from canada
-an unnamed jigglypuff who may or may not be some girl from canada
Man Li Gi
Smash Lord
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- ManLiGi
Many DKs play passively, but if you need to get a stock off quickly or are an aggro for some reason, bair is your main tactic. You cannot expect your opponent to approach DK on the ground anyway because DK has probably the best melee options and will try to camp you. Aerial approach does mitigate that problem.
Nair too
infiniteV115
Smash Hero
Confirmed troll.