Official SWF Tier List v8

[Man Li Gi]

I'm not good at brawl. never was. but I understood enough about smash so that I could place decently.

To be honest, I never even heard of you until some guy told me that there is DK around UIUC named Ripple... then he also told me you became a mediocre melee player. Do you even play Smash anymore?

 

[Ripple]

I do play melee and got 33rd out of 176 at big house 3 (13th out of 90ish in PM) so if you consider that mediocre then I guess that's what I am. I don't play brawl at all and haven't in over 2 years

 

[Man Li Gi]

I do play melee and got 33rd out of 176 at big house 3 (13th out of 90ish in PM) so if you consider that mediocre then I guess that's what I am. I don't play brawl at all and haven't in over 2 years

Again, I did not know who you were and I am only saying what the guy told me. I still do not know you. All I know is that you live close to UIUC..... Nice achievement btw.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I cant even remember what DK's side b is.

We had one of those in my house, some PR'd people were over, we all lost to a cpu luigi

im pretty sure those CPUs cheat specifically in tournament mode

i remember i tried to get through a bunch of them and losing as well

this was in like, 2009 though so...

 

[Z'zgashi]

DK's side b is easily his best move. That **** can guarantee a ****ing Ganon up tilt at like 500%.

 

[Gardex]

I'm not good at brawl. never was. but I understood enough about smash so that I could place decently.

You were definitely considered good in your prime, don't think otherwise

 

[-LzR-]

Even I had heard of Ripple and I don't know anyone.

 

[Gardex]

^I can testify to that

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Wow what happened here? It's like this thread needs Puff mains like plants need Oxygen.














wait...

 

[1PokeMastr]

Plants don't need oygen.
They need oxyclean.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Wow what happened here? It's like this thread needs Puff mains like plants need Oxygen.














wait...

Am I being summoned?

Are you sure you want this?














Fun Jigglypuff Fact: Rollout is a great doubles move and if there was a doubles tier list Puff should be high on it.

 

[PKBeam]

can puff heal from down b like us no she cant so we are better than her because we can heal lolololol she should've been able to heal from down b because its called rest like in pokemon but she cant for some reason so she cant heal herself with down b so we are better

maybe

 

[pidgezero_one]

can puff heal from down b like us no she cant so we are better than her because we can heal lolololol she should've been able to heal from down b because its called rest like in pokemon but she cant for some reason so she cant heal herself with down b so we are better

maybe

Do you realize youre talking to a ness main

 

[PKBeam]

Do you realize youre talking to a ness main

i wasn't addressing ness, i said puff, not ness, and we're much better at stock tank than ness anyway :3
enyway you're a puff main.

 

[Ghostbone]

Doesn't ness's heal have long enough cooldown that the opponent would want you to absorb the projectile so they get an easy punish.

 

[-LzR-]

But can't Ness cancel the magnet when he absorbs a projectile?
Of course it doesn't help against lasers but something like Lucario will have to think twice before shooting an an aura sphere.

 

[PKBeam]

Doesn't ness's heal have long enough cooldown that the opponent would want you to absorb the projectile so they get an easy punish.

noob
lrn2magnetcancel
magnet becomes a shield when you absorb something, anything that works with a shield (roll, OoS) works with magnet like roll, sidestep, N/F/U/Dair OoM, JC Usmash OoM, Jump OoM. While we roll we can also absorb crap

But can't Ness cancel the magnet when he absorbs a projectile?
Of course it doesn't help against lasers but something like Lucario will have to think twice before shooting an an aura sphere.

Ness can just hold the magnet there or jump OoM WHILE ABSORBING CRAP, lasers are close to useless. AS is better off reflected on read if he's not expecting it and you need a kill, unless Lucario is not @ kill % or you really need a heal.

this is why we get such ****ed up MU numbers

 

[Ghostbone]

noob
lrn2magnetcancel
magnet becomes a shield when you absorb something, anything that works with a shield (roll, OoS) works with magnet like roll, sidestep, N/F/U/Dair OoM, JC Usmash OoM, Jump OoM. While we roll we can also absorb crap

Ahk
My Ness knowledge is pretty lacking, and none of my more played characters have absorbable projectiles lol.

 

[Sar]

Ness can just hold the magnet there or jump OoM WHILE ABSORBING CRAP, lasers are close to useless. AS is better off reflected on read if he's not expecting it and you need a kill, unless Lucario is not @ kill % or you really need a heal.

this is why we get such ****ed up MU numbers

Your last sentence implies that we have ****ed up MU numbers because of lack of character knowledge. I'm guessing you don't know how the MUs are decided. Each character picks representatives to engage in discussion versus other characters. Those representatives are usually some of the best people that main the character. To imply that you know so much more than the people on the ness/lucas panel, to the point where it skews matchup numbers, is heinous.

Also, a note about Aura spheres. Saying that they are better off reflected doesn't really mean anything. Aura spheres that can kill are almost never released on the ground from a neutral standpoint. Usually they're used in the air to beat an airdodge or other predictable air movements. Any time that you could reflect the AS with lucas's fsmash means that you could also have just shielded it, and good lucarios don't release fully charged ASes that can simply be shielded.

 

[PKBeam]

Your last sentence implies that we have ****ed up MU numbers because of lack of character knowledge. I'm guessing you don't know how the MUs are decided. Each character picks representatives to engage in discussion versus other characters. Those representatives are usually some of the best people that main the character. To imply that you know so much more than the people on the ness/lucas panel, to the point where it skews matchup numbers, is heinous.

Also, a note about Aura spheres. Saying that they are better off reflected doesn't really mean anything. Aura spheres that can kill are almost never released on the ground from a neutral standpoint. Usually they're used in the air to beat an airdodge or other predictable air movements. Any time that you could reflect the AS with lucas's fsmash means that you could also have just shielded it, and good lucarios don't release fully charged ASes that can simply be shielded.

We're -2 against for some reason, last time I checked everyone thought it was 0, the worst it could really be is a solid -1. I wasn't implying that I know more than the Lucas boards, I was saying that a lot of other people don't know our character well, which is why they keep talking about how gimping us is easy and shieldgrab to punish Nair on shield, I'm sure the top players would know better than this but some other people on the boards don't know as well, which is why they think the MU numbers are different, and afaik we didn't the the best rep on the boards for some of the MU chart discussions.

Also I was saying that IF Lucario released an AS within Fsmash reach it could be reflected, it's not very likely but it's an option if the opportunity arises.

 

[ぱみゅ]

To be fair, I don't even remember who were in the Lucas Panel

 

[PKBeam]

To be fair, I don't even remember who were in the Lucas Panel

I think some of them were inactive or busy, look here.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I do play melee and got 33rd out of 176 at big house 3 (13th out of 90ish in PM) so if you consider that mediocre then I guess that's what I am. I don't play brawl at all and haven't in over 2 years

Wow. Bravo. Champagne. Cheers. High-five. Slow clap. You got top 64, didn’t you?

You have been warned, the brawl gloves are coming off. Tighten up the melee pants because things are gonna get really bad for you, Donkey Kong Player.

 

[PKBeam]

things are gonna get really bad for you, Donkey Kong Player.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I hope your not playing any Lucario's that are trying to sneak in AS from a distance thats reactable. =p
A fully charged aurasphere comes out at 8 frames if he has it stocked up, and gives advantage on block while Lu's at high percent. The only time a Lucario should be lobbing that **** against ness/lucas is as a punish or to atleast generate some pressure up close thanks to the + frames at high percent. It's our quickest kill move up close, just a little slower then our jab.
...
Our jab is ****ing slow though oops.

I think some of them were inactive or busy, look here.

IIR quite a few panels were inactive when we did that thing sadly. =/

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

First post of 2014

Puff for SSSSSSSSSSSSSS tier

Fox for Z tier

Have a great New Year guys!

 

[PKBeam]

First post of 2014

Puff for SSSSSSSSSSSSSS tier

Fox for Z tier

Have a great New Year guys!

y u h8 ??????
and lol it was 2014 for about 16 hours here.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

y u h8 ??????
and lol it was 2014 for about 16 hours here.

Ya well u didnt post when it was New Year for you so u lose ur rights to say anything about time zones.

EST master race.

And Fox sux, he loses to Sheek. What a garb character imotbh

 

[Thor]

Guess I'll make my last 2013 post here (because it's only like 11:30 here).

And Fox sux, he loses to Sheek

I'm coopting your logic. Jigglypuff sux, Jigglypuff loses to Sheek. And Fox. What a garb character imotbh.

 

[PKBeam]

Ya well u didnt post when it was New Year for you so u lose ur rights to say anything about time zones.

EST master race.

And Fox sux, he loses to Sheek. What a garb character imotbh

omg yes i did just not in this thread

Guess I'll make my last 2013 post here (because it's only like 11:30 here).



I'm coopting your logic. Jigglypuff sux, Jigglypuff loses to Sheek. And Fox. What a garb character imotbh.

sheik is legit 0. jiggs can time her out well if she gets the lead, can gimp sheik easy and beats her in the air. the reason it's not +1 jiggs is because she loses on the ground hard and sheik has a great anti air usmash and her down b is soooooo good.
fox is +2 jiggs bc he loses so hard in the air and gimpszzsszz.
jiggs is also the only low tier to have a -2 MU w/ MK
also GW is even idk why they have it as -3 (he dies so early from DACUS)

 

[Thor]

sheik is legit 0. jiggs can time her out well if she gets the lead, can gimp sheik easy and beats her in the air. the reason it's not +1 jiggs is because she loses on the ground hard and sheik has a great anti air usmash and her down b is soooooo good.
fox is +2 jiggs bc he loses so hard in the air and gimpszzsszz.
jiggs is also the only low tier to have a -2 MU w/ MK
also GW is even idk why they have it as -3 (he dies so early from DACUS)

Not gonna comment about Sheik much. But I assume uair is really good against an air camping Puff. Also Sheik's jumps are fairly high. Also you can't seriously mean down+b is good on Sheik - that's just silly except like vs Pikachu and Fox.

Fox usmash kills Jiggs at like 80% or less. Also his uair is an accident waiting to happen at like 80% off the top if camping. He also fastfalls so much faster so just stay below Puff and Puff's air game is ******. Also if Puff is camping he has lasers and fine jumping skills. This MU is definitely not +2 Jiggs. At least +1 Fox. Also good Foxes won't get gimped by Puff that easily. I'm sure Fox and Sheik mains can say why the MU chart is where it is.

I just checked the MU chart on SWF and it says all the low tiers [Jigglypuff included] are -3 (Zelda and Ganondorf being -4) with MK. Unless you're telling me that they updated the chart, but not in that thread. The only character in the bottom 2 tiers who's -2 with him is Lucas. So no, Puff is -3.
G&W dies early from one attack? Okay land it then, cuz all of G&W's smashes should KO at <90%. Also he can just mash the b button if facing Puff and your DACUS will never land - all those sausage and the pan get in the way. And that's a really lame way to stop it, pretty sure G&W mains use stronger tactics. I'm sure they can explain why G&W wrecks Puff.

Or maybe you're just practicing your trolling, in which case good day.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Thor when will you realize that anyone posting about Jigglypuff is trolling?

Except for me. I'm always 100% serious, I never troll. Ever.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I had a dream I was Pikachu.

I kept trying to land Jab -> Thunder.

 

[PKBeam]

The only character in the bottom 2 tiers who's -2 with him is Lucas. So no, Puff is -3.

iirc that ratio was assuming we can get reliably gimped by MK.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Not gonna comment about Sheik much. But I assume uair is really good against an air camping Puff. Also Sheik's jumps are fairly high. Also you can't seriously mean down+b is good on Sheik - that's just silly except like vs Pikachu and Fox.

Fox usmash kills Jiggs at like 80% or less. Also his uair is an accident waiting to happen at like 80% off the top if camping. He also fastfalls so much faster so just stay below Puff and Puff's air game is ******. Also if Puff is camping he has lasers and fine jumping skills. This MU is definitely not +2 Jiggs. At least +1 Fox. Also good Foxes won't get gimped by Puff that easily. I'm sure Fox and Sheik mains can say why the MU chart is where it is.

I just checked the MU chart on SWF and it says all the low tiers [Jigglypuff included] are -3 (Zelda and Ganondorf being -4) with MK. Unless you're telling me that they updated the chart, but not in that thread. The only character in the bottom 2 tiers who's -2 with him is Lucas. So no, Puff is -3.
G&W dies early from one attack? Okay land it then, cuz all of G&W's smashes should KO at <90%. Also he can just mash the b button if facing Puff and your DACUS will never land - all those sausage and the pan get in the way. And that's a really lame way to stop it, pretty sure G&W mains use stronger tactics. I'm sure they can explain why G&W wrecks Puff.

I am going to take an educated guess at this point. Sheik's Uair and jump height is not all that important. The biggest issue with jigglypuff is her side to side movement instead of the vertical height gained.

Take this situation for example as demonstrated above by the lovely image. Falco is in the black box while Jigglypuff is in the pink box area. Falco has the ability to reach jigglypuff, yes. His jumps and Bair would allow it to work. The issue here is that jigglypuff can drift very far left or very far right for an extended period of time. By the time Falco attempts to hit jigglypuff she could have completely driffted out of his range, but still have the drift to come right back and hit Falco near the apex of his jump with her Bair. Now, couple this with the fact that Jigglypuff has multiple jumps and she can hover in this zone for some time.

The point I am getting at is while Falco can enter Jigg's zone (the pink box area and slightly outside of it), Falco is actually weakest there compared to jigglypuff. Jiggs would prefer for Falco to jump up there. Falco's good zone would be him below a platform and jiggs slightly above the lower platforms. The reason is that jiggs is weakest directly underneath her.

Another strong situation for jigglypuff is a character simply sitting in shield (although stronger in melee imo). A character stuck in shield has greatly limited mobility. If Jiggs sticks to hovering around the upper right or upper left airspace of a person's shield with Bair and her jumps then few characters can directly attack her here.
-If you choose to sit in shield, then she can wear down your shield with spaced Bairs and you losing shield over time to eventually break.
-If you attempt to grab, you would lose to spacing since Jiggs disjoint on bair and hitting you from an awkward angle would cause the grab to miss.
-If you attempt to jump forward with an aerial you risk messing up by jiggs simply waiting around for you.
Again, what I am getting at is overall its not favorable to challenge jiggs in the air from shield unless you have the right tools. Most characters they do not have the right tools to do so.

Now, this is jigg's best strength. However, her downfall as well. She thrives on characters coming into her zone rather than her forcing characters into her zone. Once Falco gets a percent lead or stock lead there is no reason for Falco to risk himself going at jigglypuff when he can sit back and try to poke at her with lasers instead. And she has no strong tools to to force falco at him. The only thing she can attempt to do is use her mobility to try to corner falco in such ways that he gets stuck. Such as he might try shielding at the ledge.

In general, if Jigglypuff loses the position advantage all characters have to do is wait for her jumps to run out and have potshots at her landing. Or forever keep her to the outskirts of the stage. At the same time, I think Jiggs should be a bit higher on the tier list. I just think her play-style is incredibly tedious to pull off right while she only requires a few hits to get KO'd and many more to actually take a stock.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Xeylode you're the best.

 

[Seagull Joe]

beats no one besides . She goes even with no one besides .

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

beats no one besides . She goes even with no one besides .

Puff beats Falcon easy. imo it's an easier MU for Puff than Ganon is.

Also Puff goes even with Zelda and beats MK +4. Don't you know ANYTHING Seagull?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

beats no one besides . She goes even with no one besides .

What factors go into that exactly? Ideally, I believe that a character's ability to keep characters "out" or to force them into situations which they cannot respond well too should be valued more highly than other traits such as ability to get KOs or how far from the stage they can recover. Olimar can pretty much block most characters in this game despite not having the greatest recovery or knockback resistance.

I see Jiggs having more favorable match-ups since she could have a playstyle that is hard to combat for some lower tier'd characters with not the best tools and traits. But, as humans we make mistakes and things such as not being able to comeback from a lot of hits (jiggs) means you have to make fewer mistakes with her to succeed even if you have the winning strategy and that plays apart in one's success. Ultimately, that probably why jiggs must stay near the bottom of the barrel.

 

[PKBeam]

Puff beats Falcon easy. imo it's an easier MU for Puff than Ganon is.

Also Puff goes even with Zelda and beats MK +4. Don't you know ANYTHING Seagull?

puff is not manly enuff to withstand the sheer manly force ofPUNCH and the Knee.
vs.= +3
just CP sheik because sheik is gender confused none of that man stuff works on h.... sheik.
vs. = +3
the only reason wins against is bc she can time him out lol.