Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[bubbaking]

Well, now I just thought of the REAL problem. The MU Chart and the Tier list are released at different times of the year, and the Tier List depends on the MU Chart. You'd need to update the Tier List into the OP or reserve a spot in the second post for it, and you'd also need to make some form of announcement. Not sure if you're willing to do all that, but if you are, then I see no reason why it isn't feasible or even recommended.

 

[Kewkky]

That's when we change the OP to reflect what's the newest change, I guess.

I'm not saying I'll do it, since I have no control over that. I'm just saying it makes sense.

 

[bubbaking]

Marc and Ishieymoro........for namesearch's sake.

 

[Kewkky]

... but isn't the search function broken?

On-topic: MK is definitely #1.

 

[bubbaking]

It will be fixed in a few days hopefully, right? When it is, they'll be directed right to this very cluster of posts where we talk about what they should do for the next MU chart and tier list.

 

[Shaya]

I doubt we'll move them into a single topic*. They're two separate releases. Unless we decided to merge them into a conglomerate BBR release thing. These topics don't just exist for the sake of you guys banging heads at each other / spamming 5k posts a year.

 

[bubbaking]

Shaya, don't you mean, "I doubt we'll move them into a single topic"? If you don't, then your post is extremly confusing.

And I don't really see what the issue is with both the MU chart and the Tier List thread being viewable in one thread. Conversations aside, it's just easier to look at than needing to have two separate tabs open to compare and stuff.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The issue is that both are completly different projects.

 

[bubbaking]

One still depends on the other (I HOPE the Tier List project is heavily factoring in MU spreads) and there's still nothing wrong with posting the results of each into one thread, especially since Marc is the one who posts both of them anyway.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I hope the tier list project doesn't use the MU chart, at least judging from the last official chart.



Also have three threads. Two locked and stickied threads for the MU chart and tier list, and one discussion thread for both.

 

[Shaya]

especially since Marc is the one who posts both of them anyway.

I've posted like three tier lists
Show your newb moar.

 

[bubbaking]

I've posted like three tier lists
Show your newb moar.

No offense, but all I care about are the most recent ones and Marc has posted both. He also did the last versions too if I'm not mistaken. Besides, he's an Admin; he can do what he wants. In all honesty though, Grim probably suggested the best idea, except I still think the Tier List and the MU Chart should be posted together for easier viewing and comparisons. If it's too large, which really shouldn't be the case, then use collapse tags.

 

[Shaya]

Posts is plural.

If you meant the most recent ones you should have said
"especially since Marc was the one who posted both of them anyway".

Payback, imo. And no, Marc isn't the only one who has posted Official BBR Tier lists. He's also known for being a big stinky winky for stealing topic making opportunities.
Marc has posted the Match up Chart's both times because we "break" the rules when posting such large amounts of text/pictures, i.e. an admin post.

 

[bubbaking]

Moderators are not allowed to be grammar Nazis. They literally aren't.

Lolz, I know that. I've seen plenty of lists posted by various mods. Marc posted the most recent ones (this version and the last, maybe more), and he's an Admin and apparently Admin > Mod. Pretty sure that if anyone were to have the final say in what goes where, it would be Marc (after AZ).

Edit: "Big stinky winky" eh? Hmmm, didn't know about that...

 

[Diddy Kong]

I miss the times DK was considered to be even with MetaKnight.

 

[C.J.]

Donkey Kong was never considered even with MK though...

 

[Dekillsage]

The idea was diddy kong did "well" against Mk.
-1 = doing well xD

 

[Diddy Kong]

Then Diddy still does 'well' against MK. But in MK's case: anything that doesn't get 3-stocked by him does 'well' agaisnt him

 

[bubbaking]

@CJ: By DK, he means DdK.

 

[FredFuchs]

So what's going to happen to Ddd v snake? Will it stay +1 or will it go to 0? If I may weigh in, Ddd beats snake in the air and can use waddles

 

[ぱみゅ]

I think it was agreed to go 0?
Or was it going to debate? I don't remember honestly.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I think it was agreed to go 0?
Or was it going to debate? I don't remember honestly.

I hate both characters equally so +0

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I hate both characters equally so +0

That's the best way to determine MUs imo

 

[ShadowLink84]

That's the best way to determine MUs imo

I try not to go into detail when people with accounts over a year old have a habit of doubting things that happened before their time.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I try not to go into detail when people with accounts over a year old have a habit of doubting things that happened before their time.

tbh, I would be doubting what you said even if it happened after I made the account if I'd never seen it happen.

I guess, if I were to make a really bad and highly unlikely analogy, it would be like someone being born in 2002, who lived in a room with no access to any forms of media for their entire life, then you went up to them and told them about 9/11. They probably wouldn't believe you until you showed them news footage covering the event, and possible would even then request footage of the event itself.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

 

[ShadowLink84]

tbh, I would be doubting what you said even if it happened after I made the account if I'd never seen it happen.

Dinosaurs didn't exist.

I guess, if I were to make a really bad and highly unlikely analogy, it would be like someone being born in 2002, who lived in a room with no access to any forms of media for their entire life, then you went up to them and told them about 9/11. They probably wouldn't believe you until you showed them news footage covering the event, and possible would even then request footage of the event itself.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

Yeah, that idiocy is rampant.

Skepticism is one thing, denial is another.

Edit: This new website is bizarre.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Dinosaurs didn't exist.

Yeah, that idiocy is rampant.

Skepticism is one thing, denial is another.

Edit: This new website is bizarre.

What do dinosaurs have to do with this discussion?

Also, to get back on topic: Falco is only -1 against Pikachu imo

 

[infiniteV115]

They probably wouldn't believe you until you showed them news footage covering the event, and possible would even then request footage of the event itself.

Skepticism is one thing, denial is another.

Yeah they are, and what SM described was the perfect example of skepticism. You know, not believing in something that seems like it would probably be a really rare, unlikely and significant occurance until you've been provided evidence. (ie take note of the bolded part)

Falco : Pikachu is not -1. You haven't played any good Pikachus (the best one you played was probably mine XD)

 

[Seagull Joe]

Then Diddy still does 'well' against MK. But in MK's case: anything that doesn't get 3-stocked by him does 'well' agaisnt him

Now you got it. still does well vs . I don't think there are many top level 's anymore though.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yeah they are, and what SM described was the perfect example of skepticism. You know, not believing in something that seems like it would probably be a really rare, unlikely and significant occurance until you've been provided evidence. (ie take note of the bolded part)

You mean like pointing at the empty space in Manhattan where they stood?
Herp a derp.

Or pointing out that there are videos that exist regarding it?
Whatever, quit defending stupid **** V.

Moving on, it isn't unreasonable to suggest it being -1.
It is really just splitting hairs IMO.

 

[fkacyan]

These topics don't just exist for the sake of you guys banging heads at each other / spamming 5k posts a year.

... So why do they exist, then? What the hell else does a pointless chart / ordered list (Which, by the way, are actually intrinsically linked!) discussion thread exist?

Oh, right, for people to debate their opinions and inflate postcount. Because none of this discussion advances the metagame at all.

 

[thrillagorilla]

Because none of this discussion advances the metagame at all.

If I take this part of your post and ignore context, I agree with you.

I've lurked these boards a long time. I have yet to see anything other than reactionary changes to people's opinions about anything. Nothing here truly advances the meta-game that didn't originate in a tourney.

On topic: Who is on the Link and DeDeDe panels for v.3?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

On topic: Who is on the Link and DeDeDe panels for v.3?

You should be able to find that information on the character boards for each character.

The thread title should be something like "MU chart V3 Panel"

 

[thrillagorilla]

Thank you much.

 

[Marc]

Bubbaking: The tier list used the weighted matchup chart as a resource this time (as well as votes and monetary winnings), before that it was always vote based. Making one release out of it is unlikely for the time being as we're still looking to optimize both and don't feel that the tier list is necessarily just a result of the theoretical matchup spread of all characters. We will consider having one discussion topic for both, but they're not released at similar times at all even if there's some obvious overlap in the subject matter, so all in all we'll probably stick with the current format.

 

[bubbaking]

OK, that makes sense.

I don't think there are many top level 's anymore though.

Isn't ADHD still playing, though?

Moving on, it isn't unreasonable to suggest it being -1.
It is really just splitting hairs IMO.

Oh, it's unreasonable alright, seeing as how that MU is arguably between a -2 and a -3.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Oh, it's unreasonable alright, seeing as how that MU is arguably between a -2 and a -3.

I cannot see it being anywhere close to a -2/-3.
Maybe before when people were initially shocked at Pika's grab shenanigans, but not now, not with Falco's tools.
Or am I thinking another match up?

 

[Seagull Joe]

Spoiler

Testing.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Spoiler

Testing.

Your emote is broken still.

No idea how I got that emote working btw.

 

[ぱみゅ]

EDIT: @Seagull
^For a second I thought that would be a meaningful post.
fyi, that's how Spoiler tags work in most forums, the blacked-out style is something I had only seen on danbooru and 4chan (please, if you don't know them, don't google them). I hadn't see the collapse tag in any other site before SWF, and I loved it.
It's like you guys haven't been in any other forum. SWF was by far the best organized, with the best features and best looking one I had been in a while.... I miss it, but I hope the staff can get everything together soon and start adding old features.


Anyway, Pikachu is a very mobile character with even more options at neutral than MK.
It might not be as good as ESAM makes it look like, but has many tools that can make work with high mobility. He can be on your face and grab you at virtually any time, and that's a very important part of the MU when he gets such a humongous reward.
If anything, the Falco-Pikachu MU can be moved to -1 because Pikachu doesn't really have many killing options that don't require a read. But then again, Falco's kill setups aren't that much reliable either...

Anyway, I don't use any of the two characters.... I just didn't want to make an "empty" post.