Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

[da K.I.D.]

I think that's more or less why I began to stick with pink ZSS

I mean now, I stick with pink cause it's the best looking one imo, but back when I was a scrub sometimes I couldn't see what I was doing during the dark parts of the background of FD if I was using black...so I went with pink cause it was visible everywhere.

Nick Riddle needs to get off that green&yellow ZSS though. ****'s ugly as ****. It's almost as bad as posting with a ****ing olive green font holy **** DABUZ WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU MAN

9/10.

needs more profuse hatred of colors.

I just picked this color to post in because it matched my skin...

 

[Espy Rose]

Why would you match your SWF skin with your font?
Would seem very difficult to read your own writing.

 

[Dabuz]

I think that's more or less why I began to stick with pink ZSS

I mean now, I stick with pink cause it's the best looking one imo, but back when I was a scrub sometimes I couldn't see what I was doing during the dark parts of the background of FD if I was using black...so I went with pink cause it was visible everywhere.

Nick Riddle needs to get off that green&yellow ZSS though. ****'s ugly as ****. It's almost as bad as posting with a ****ing olive green font holy **** DABUZ WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU MAN

NO, GREEN ZSS IS THE BEST LOOKING COLOR /ragecaps

 

[NickRiddle]

I think that's more or less why I began to stick with pink ZSS

I mean now, I stick with pink cause it's the best looking one imo, but back when I was a scrub sometimes I couldn't see what I was doing during the dark parts of the background of FD if I was using black...so I went with pink cause it was visible everywhere.

Nick Riddle needs to get off that green&yellow ZSS though. ****'s ugly as ****. It's almost as bad as posting with a ****ing olive green font holy **** DABUZ WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU MAN

Green + Yellow is lemon-lime.
It's ****ing refreshing, bro.
JUST LIKE LEMON-LIME SODA!

The only problem is, Black ZSS has like a +1 vs. Green/Yellow ZSS.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Why would you match your SWF skin with your font?
Would seem very difficult to read your own writing.

lol?


Not sure if serious...

Im talking about my actual skin. On my body.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Squirtle beats Sonic fairly cleanly, IMO. As far as the other two go, what's stopping PT from getting on a platform, switching twice, and SDI'ing the inevitable attempts to deal 30% with some B move?

Primarily because SDI'ing still means you take a good bit of damage.
The aerial spin dash alone will result un at least 20% damage taken, so it is best not risked.

Squirtle I am not too sure.
He isn't like Wario who has the danger's of a fart.
He just...moves through the air.

 

[Espy Rose]

lol?


Not sure if serious...

Im talking about my actual skin. On my body.

No one wants to read you talking about your body.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Depending on how attractive he is, I do.

 

[infiniteV115]

SL84, I'm fairly certain that's not the case.
Granted I know nothing about Sonic and all his cancels and the difference between grounded spindash and aerial spindash and his spinrolls and spinjumps and splinter cells and stuff

All I know is that whenever I play Meekspeedy and he approaches me with that spinning blue ball thingy I SDI up and behind him and he doesn't get any follow ups and I take like 5%

 

[da K.I.D.]

lol spinter cells.

 

[C.J.]

SL84, I'm fairly certain that's not the case.
Granted I know nothing about Sonic and all his cancels and the difference between grounded spindash and aerial spindash and his spinrolls and spinjumps and splinter cells

I know that feel. sonic and yoshi... they're just weird

 

[Tesh]

SL84, I'm fairly certain that's not the case.
Granted I know nothing about Sonic and all his cancels and the difference between grounded spindash and aerial spindash and his spinrolls and spinjumps and splinter cells and stuff

All I know is that whenever I play Meekspeedy and he approaches me with that spinning blue ball thingy I SDI up and behind him and he doesn't get any follow ups and I take like 5%

Thats the spindash hop and it does 6 damage fresh so thats possible. ASC does 11 damage on the first hit and the 2nd hit comes immediately after and does 8 damage. I've never seen anyone avoid the 2nd hit at any percent. Hell for a fatty like charizard, the 3rd hit could land too and you just took 25+ damage.

 

[Luco]

I know that feel. sonic and yoshi... they're just weird

Yoshi is a case of a character that I really want to be able to use well but have no idea how to go about it. I love yoshi as a character but have no idea how he's played competitively. I should look on the yoshi boards sometime I guess.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Diddy goes even with MK and Snake if the Japanese stage list is being used

 

[Laem]

Fox goes even with Falco on Brinstar. This is hugely important you guys.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Yoshi is a case of a character that I really want to be able to use well but have no idea how to go about it. I love yoshi as a character but have no idea how he's played competitively. I should look on the yoshi boards sometime I guess.

Throw eggs, egg lay, pivot grab. Boom, 75% of your game covered.

 

[PMC66]

I've been reading some of Vinnie's opinions on game and watch apparantly he think Tink is +1 (or at least i think thats what he said in his blog he said every character below game and watch which he put 10th had a loosing matchup bar shiek and Donkey Kong).

He said Game and Watch was even with Mk too seems like quite a drastic difference in opinion from other Game and watches

 

[infiniteV115]

Yup. Vinnie tends to have extreme opinions. He also thinks ICs are better than MK.

And you must have read that in the comments or something (or you're talking about a different blog that he made on the same topic...which would be silly) cause I remember that in the actual blog itself he said that he feels G&W goes even/beats everyone below him on the tier list.

 

[PMC66]

Yup. Vinnie tends to have extreme opinions. He also thinks ICs are better than MK.

And you must have read that in the comments or something (or you're talking about a different blog that he made on the same topic...which would be silly) cause I remember that in the actual blog itself he said that he feels G&W goes even/beats everyone below him on the tier list.

yeah that blog, I wonder if he has a point about Game and watch being even with MK though he does very well as Game and watch vs top level MKs he beat M2K on rainbow cruise and nearly beat Rain one game in Japan.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's definitely not even.
It's definitely not -2.

 

[infiniteV115]

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=139656

His exact wording on it was "He goes even with the entirety of B tier, except he beats Peach/Pit/Wolf/Lucario.

He beats everyone below that, other than being even with Sheik."

Stop making stuff up...unless it's in the comments.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

yeah that blog, I wonder if he has a point about Game and watch being even with MK though he does very well as Game and watch vs top level MKs he beat M2K on rainbow cruise and nearly beat Rain one game in Japan.

The top players of A LOT of random characters tend to think their character goes even with MK. It's usually because it's a really random character, so it's rare for them to face top level MKs who are equally familiar with the MU. Given enough time, they tend to realize they are wrong.

 

[NickRiddle]

New revelation.
ZSS can footstool MK our of a grab-release.
50:50 MU now please.

 

[Kuro~]

Lol what? That's pretty cool.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Does she get anything out of it? Is it an easy thing to manage?

 

[NickRiddle]

It's apparently a 3-frame window.
She can get... platform cancel stuff, and she can lock out of platform cancel at certain %s, so it could be a lot of damage.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Footstooling would just be an annoyance for MK though, unless she can continue to footstool him to death.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's apparently a 3-frame window.
She can get... platform cancel stuff, and she can lock out of platform cancel at certain %s, so it could be a lot of damage.

At first glance, it reminds me of Falco's chaingrab -> footstool -> platform cancel -> laser lock -> DACUS. Good stuff.

 

[Claire Diviner]

At first glance, it reminds me of Falco's chaingrab -> footstool -> platform cancel -> laser lock -> DACUS. Good stuff.

Ohhhh, that's what you guys meant; footstooling before he hits the ground. Well, ****, I'd say that can potentially make the MU 50:50, if enough ZSS mains can execute it and do something with it. That still remains to be seen though.

 

[NickRiddle]

Nah, it won't do much, it's just a thing.
It's good for doubles though.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Come to think of it, wouldn't her jump height from a footstool be too high to follow it up with anything before MK rolls out of it?

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah, that's exactly the problem. I doubt anything is guaranteed out of the footstool except for dair, unless we follow it up with like a PCDT which would only be reliable on Lylat.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Come to think of it, wouldn't her jump height from a footstool be too high to follow it up with anything before MK rolls out of it?

Hence the platform cancel immediately after a footstool.

 

[Kuro~]

Couldn't that net u a tech chase though? Or is her footstool too high?

 

[Claire Diviner]

Couldn't that net u a tech chase though? Or is her footstool too high?

I'm pretty sure her jump is too high.

Hence the platform cancel immediately after a footstool.

What if there are no platforms available?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What if there are no platforms available?

Then it wouldn't work outside of Smashville and Doubles, where it would be a nice thing to have in your back pocket.

 

[infiniteV115]

What if there are no platforms available?

Then we just choose one of our multiple other air release options, which includes
-Uair
-Dash attack (this is amazing)
-Regrab
-Usmash (not that good lol)
-Fair (probably our best option but this is really hard )

 

[Claire Diviner]

So basically, the ZSS would simply not footstool. Even with platform canceling, I would imagine MK can still roll out after landing on the ground fast enough to avoid some potentially unpleasant things, unless Zamus can do things in such a small amount of frames as to follow up a footstool with - at the very least - a tech chase option.

 

[infiniteV115]

If she PCDTs she can probably follow up with a laser/1st hit fair (fair option would only work at low percents) to force a reset, and from there she gets 3 dsmashes (unless it was a laser at high percents, then 4 dsmashes) --> followup.

And I imagine the PCDT --> laser/1st hit fair is guaranteed because I've seen Falco do dthrow --> footstool --> PCDT --> laser lock and though I haven't seen/tried out the ZSS footstool yet, I imagine she footstools from higher up than Falco does.

Even if it works it's still very very situational because
-You can only followup with dair unless you're on a stage where you can platform cancel
-Even if you're on Smashville, it's MUCH more likely that MK will simply air release onto the platform instead of air releasing not onto it but close enough so that after ZSS footstools she can platform cancel on the platform

So again, the footstool --> PC/PCDT --> followup is only reliable on Lylat.
Honestly it seems more likely for the AR --> footstool to be useful on Delfino/Halberd when the stage is transforming than on any other non-Lylat stage.

 

[Tesh]

Dair doesn't lock MK like it does Snake at 0%?