Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[DunnoBro]

Technically a no-equipment set still has all stats at zero, so that would open the door to banning literally everyone if one were inclined to abuse the rules like that.

Took me a moment to parse this. You mean he asked you to load up the custom sets on the Wii U he uses for streaming?

He wanted his 3ds customs unlocked and sets on his Wii U.

Unfortunately, he had a digital smash so powersaves don't work, and he got there too late for me to have time to upload the sets before tourney. Couldn't wait till after sm4sh for the wii u to be free cause work

Unlocked about 5 3ds with customs. Unfortunately a lot of people had digital, hopefully I can find the time to upload the sets from wii u to their 3ds next time.

Most of the people I asked seemed to like the idea of playing with customs, especially when reminded diddy's customs suck. Those that didn't just were afraid of having to relearn stuff.

 

[Thinkaman]

I competed in a custom legal tournament on the 13th. Unfortunately, we weren't in a position to set up all the wiis before the tournament in line with this project; however, I am making an assertive effort to do so before our next tournament. Also, I appreciate the collective effort that went into this project. Customs legal tournaments have a lot of potential. However I have few issues with having the Wii-Us setup as is in the OP.

I use way more than 2 sets that aren't listed in either of the "critical" or "supplemental" sets (for my main, Rosalina, at least). To have all of the ones I want to use, I need to erase many of the ones listed in the OP. It would be a hassle for my TO to go in and set up all the Wii-Us back to this project's default (critical & supplemental) customs before every tournament. To be more flexible towards peoples' more unusual custom sets (which I think reflects way more than "1%" of the population), I think it's better to have more custom slots left open. Perhaps half of them. Remember, you do have to

Also, most Wii-Us for tournaments are provided by the players. Some players may not want any of this project's customs or other players' customs set up on their Wii-U. Match assignment issues can arise from players being assigned to Wii-Us without their customs. I don't agree with the sentiment that it's "almost guaranteed" that you will find/know someone with your preferred custom moves on their DS. In fact if you're a new tournament goer, and your don't arrive with your DS or Wii-U with all of the customs unlocked, it's simply a matter of luck whether or not you'll get to use your preferred customs.

Thanks for making this post. It's really important and gets us thinking about the right issues.


I've loaded customs on 6 WiiUs now, and have a bit of perspective.

I also think that less than 6 sets might be preferred moving forward, particularly for most characters. A lot of new players have been overwhelmed by the options, and have no idea "what's good."

I'm split on 2222 and 3333. In the long run, it's probably a bad thing to have bad options in the list. But for now I'm still pretty convinced it is necessary and fundamental.

Sets need to be organized/loaded in numerical order whenever possible. I dunno why I wasn't vocal about this previously; I've been doing it and it's not required but really nice. This is only really an issue if you are loading customs from a 3DS to multiple consoles. ("Why not?") I'm rather adamant that numerical ordering is superior to subjective preference. Literally everyone I've played with has shared this opinion.

Numerical ordering means the well-intentioned critical/supplemental organization is kinda superfluous. I take full blame for this, I was over-complicating things in trying to provide structure.


My current thoughts are:

• Trim sets down a bit, possibly on a per-character basis. (How do you decide? It's not a big deal, but it's still not a simple question.) Let's be real: Very few characters absolutely NEED more than 2 or 3 sets to be available on EVERY console. Several current supplemental sets are reaching.
• Nix the Recommended/Supplemental distinction. My bad.
• Rename the project from "Official Standard Custom Movesets" to "Official Recommended Custom Movesets."
• Pitch it even more explicitly/specifically as a community/TO time-saving measure.
• If someone already has customs unlocked and has non-recommend sets already on their console that they prefer, great! They are already good to go. Replacing all their preferred sets with recommended ones in most cases would add more time, the opposite of the project's goal.

 

[hey_there]

I'm in favour of axing most of the supplemental sets. As it stands now, they constitute a little over half of all the sets, despite only appealing to a marginal few. I feel like it should just be critical sets, which represent the best and most optimal builds.

As well, 2222 and 3333 builds for exploration should only be uploaded at the specific request of TOs or for Wii Us dedicated for friendlies, since in a tournament setting you'll only really want the best builds conducive to winning. Ideally, a fully unlocked 3DS would be present at every tournament to accommodate deviant builds. Logistically however, this may not be always be possible, so the builds that ARE present should really be the best of the best.

 

[Thinkaman]

Right, 2222 and 3333 should be optional. They exist for WiiUs that don't have all the customs unlocked.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I was under the impression that the 2222 and 3333 sets were short term measures to ensure that everyone had a chance to try out every custom move without depending on the "real" sets to use everything at least once. So once a setup has all the customs unlocked for a specific character, they become pointless. (Or even just all the 2s or all the 3s, if you want to do it piecemeal.)

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I feel like the supplemental sets should be kept, but the 2222, and 3333 sets can be kept or removed at TO discretion.

However, I think I noticed a problem with this list is that we may have given players too many options in that sense and thus they feel too overwhelmed to try.

 

[Yikarur]

It doesn't make much sense to me to cut the number of sets down.
In a tournament with customs allowed you csnnot force people to choose between two sets.. that would be unfair and would hurt people who use less used but still perfectly viable sets.
2222 and 3333 can be removed from a tournament point of view if they are not recommended.

 

[Sandwiches]

I competed in a custom legal tournament on the 13th. Unfortunately, we weren't in a position to set up all the wiis before the tournament in line with this project; however, I am making an assertive effort to do so before our next tournament. Also, I appreciate the collective effort that went into this project. Customs legal tournaments have a lot of potential. However I have few issues with having the Wii-Us setup as is in the OP.

I use way more than 2 sets that aren't listed in either of the "critical" or "supplemental" sets (for my main, Rosalina, at least). To have all of the ones I want to use, I need to erase many of the ones listed in the OP. It would be a hassle for my TO to go in and set up all the Wii-Us back to this project's default (critical & supplemental) customs before every tournament. To be more flexible towards peoples' more unusual custom sets (which I think reflects way more than "1%" of the population), I think it's better to have more custom slots left open. Perhaps half of them.

Also, most Wii-Us for tournaments are provided by the players. Some players may not want any of this project's customs or other players' customs set up on their Wii-U. Match assignment issues can arise from players being assigned to Wii-Us without their customs. I don't agree with the sentiment that it's "almost guaranteed" that you will find/know someone with your preferred custom moves on their DS. In fact if you're a new tournament goer, and you don't arrive with your DS or Wii-U with all of the customs unlocked, it's simply a matter of luck whether or not you'll get to use your preferred customs.

As much as I hate to admit it, since customs are such a great idea, I think Sakurai has just grossly mishandled them. I don't even feel the desire to use them since I know when I go to play at my friends house he is not going to have all the custom moves I need to play the builds I have been practicing with.

I hope we see a patch that makes customs much easier to unlock... but that is very wishful thinking.

 

[rpgcaster]

I definitely feel that this project is beneficial to customs legality in the tourney scene, and I'm happy for the existence. I am on the fence about the 2222 and 3333 sets. I understand their purpose but I feel it limits the amount of slots available for custom sets. I'm sure this is a temporary measure and I understand that but yeah, the inherent limitation of this is that at best we have 8-10 custom slots.

Yes in most cases a mere 1% or so of players will be using unorthodox sets but certain characters will have many more viable sets than this that more than 1% of players. I cite Palutena as the obvious example where I feel a move like celestial fireworks is beneficial and preferred by a decent percentage of players of the character yet this system doesn't allow for enough room to add this in (at the very least, I've seen more footage of it's use than Lightweight, despite how much more useful Lightweight is as an option). Along with this, there are characters that have options like Palutena's Autoreticle and Explosive Flame where there will be viable sets that each of these may be staple choices for (effectively doubling the amount of sets needed).

Eh, just dumping my thoughts, I understand I'm raising more problems than solutions but I really am in support and appreciative of this project and hope for the future of custom moves in tourney's.

 

[Thinkaman]

No one is saying these are the only sets that are allowed. These are just the recommendations for TOs and community members to preload onto their consoles to save valuable time.

If a player wants to use some oddball set that no one could have predicted, they are absolutely entitled to take the time to do that. (Just like controls) This is especially true for Palutena and Miis.

 

[Twin Rhapsody]

I'm 100% for this idea, and have already set up my 3ds with the options in the OP, minus 2 exceptions. I've talked to a buddy of mine who's started running Smash 4 monthlies, and with this idea he's going to allow customs at his next tourney.

 

[LancerStaff]

Import a built from 3ds including such an illicit build while no one is looking. Since importing is normal, this might slide, but since the import GUI shows equipment effects, no one has to be around looking when you do it, and of course any competent opponent will watch you import your stuff. I'm pretty sure negative state equipment with no effects is not possible to generate via the RNG, and even if you could, it would seem to be entirely to your disadvantage to use a negative stat build with no offsetting bonus effects which makes the incentive to cheat awfully small (cheat, risk DQ, have a harder time winning?).

Less attack means more combos from you, less defense means less combos from the opponent, and less speed means you fall slower. It largely depends on how equipment works. Perhaps small decreases in attack only alters KB? Defense is largely just how much KB you take. Speed effects walking and running speed, negatively in this case, but it also effects horizontal speed and vertical speed. Pit's Fspecial doesn't put him in special fall but he'll nearly fall to the bottom blastzone if used off the side of FD. Less speed means he can safely use it and whiff lower and lower.

At worst, all a player could gain from this is completely messing up the opponent's timing. And hacking would allow you to get negative equipment, or you could shoot for equipment with unnoticable positive modifiers like gluey edge grabber.

Basically, this will indeed be a problem if it manages to make it onto a system.

 

[<π]

I made a video! And I encourage everyoen who has the means to do so and like this idea to do so as well. SPread this idea around don't just contain it to the people involved in the thread here. Facebook, Twitter, yOutube, spread the awareness!

Less attack means more combos from you, less defense means less combos from the opponent, and less speed means you fall slower. It largely depends on how equipment works. Perhaps small decreases in attack only alters KB? Defense is largely just how much KB you take. Speed effects walking and running speed, negatively in this case, but it also effects horizontal speed and vertical speed. Pit's Fspecial doesn't put him in special fall but he'll nearly fall to the bottom blastzone if used off the side of FD. Less speed means he can safely use it and whiff lower and lower.

At worst, all a player could gain from this is completely messing up the opponent's timing. And hacking would allow you to get negative equipment, or you could shoot for equipment with unnoticable positive modifiers like gluey edge grabber.

Basically, this will indeed be a problem if it manages to make it onto a system.

I don't think we actually need to worry too too much about these edge cases. it isn't going to come up frequently enough to warrant not doing this at all. If there is suspicion of foul play you can stop the set and test it a play who is thought to be intentionally cheating can be banned. Players who aren't caught won't be banned.

 

[Ansou]

@ Amazing Ampharos I really like this initiative as I really like custom moves. I will definitely use this system in tourneys that I arrange. It would be nice if you edited the OP of this post: http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/ to say that this thread exists. Also, I was kinda surprised to see that Kirby's side B 2 was in the critical builds as most people in the Kirby thread seemed to be in favour of the default one (I know that this confused you as well). I don't know if someone already mentioned it, but I don't feel like reading through this whole thread right now as I need to sleep.

 

[Cornstalk]

While not part of a tournament, I did have a Wii U set up as a side thing at a small local event. The players seemed interested in what the specials could do. When I played my custom Charizard against them, I explained the moves I used and demonstrated the changes before we actually battled. Worked pretty well, actually. Most people adapted to Dragon Rush pretty quickly, meaning I found myself being baited and punished for using it as early as the first match.


If controller checks are still a thing, you could always blanket "custom demonstration" into that option. Do a quick demonstration of what the customs do, then back out and start the match.

As people become more acclimated with each set, and preferred sets become common place, the pace of the tournament should pick up again. I really hope customs become common place. It adds a nice variety to the game and gives less appealing characters options that help against their short-comings and harder match-ups.



Would a printable and smart phone friendly collection of custom explanations help?
I can probably find time over the Christmas break to set up a doc file for each character's customs in a publicly visible Google Drive folder.

Like... go to the folder on a browser, click on the character you want, and there's some details about what the custom changes.
Should the default be listed? or just the #2 and #3 variation?

 

[Thinkaman]

If controller checks are still a thing, you could always blanket "custom demonstration" into that option. Do a quick demonstration of what the customs do, then back out and start the match.

This by no means ever needs to be mandatory, but it's not unreasonable to give players the right to request to see moves.

We always want Smash to be as open as possible for new players.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Excuse me guys. I've been looking around, and I can't find a single person, so maybe someone here could help me out?

I'm trying to make an imgur gallery of each and every custom move in Smash 4 Wii U in gif form but the problem is I don't have a Wii U yet, or recording equipment, so I need someone to record each custom move in the game being used, and I'd cut it up into gifs, for the sake of having a huge gallery for people to reference easily. The videos on youtube are fine, but some people find it bothersome to look at all that footage.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Excuse me guys. I've been looking around, and I can't find a single person, so maybe someone here could help me out?

I'm trying to make an imgur gallery of each and every custom move in Smash 4 Wii U in gif form but the problem is I don't have a Wii U yet, or recording equipment, so I need someone to record each custom move in the game being used, and I'd cut it up into gifs, for the sake of having a huge gallery for people to reference easily. The videos on youtube are fine, but some people find it bothersome to look at all that footage.

I also lack capture equipment so I can't help, but for the sake of clarification, how exactly do you want the moves to be demonstrated?

I ask this because there are a lot of special moves that will probably take more than a quick .gif to fully demonstrate. I was bored so I went through the CSS and came up with the following questions/potential trouble spots/whatever.

Spoiler: Long List

Cape is a reflector and flips people around too. Shocking Cape removes these properties, Gust Cape adds a windbox.


Green Missile misfires and Super Jump Punch sweetspots.


Vegetable faces. (Imagine waiting to get lucky and pull a Stitchface for this...)


Egg Throw angles.


Launch Star angles, Gravitational Pull on projectiles vs. items.


Bite can eat items. Wario Waft charges based on time elapsed.


Overcharging the Peanut Popgun. Monkey Flip can be a grab or a kick. Steering the Rocketbarrel Boost.


Judge numbers.


K.O. Meter changes Straight Lunge to K.O. Punch.


Boomerang directions.


Naryu's Love is both a reflector and an attack. Naryu's Passion removes the reflector property. Din's Fire control and increased damage with duration. Farore's Wind can move in any direction, but not Farore's Windfall.


Turnaround Warlock Punch. Ground vs. air versions of Wizard's Kick.


Boomerang directions.


Homing vs. Super Missiles. Bomb jumping?


Flip Jump can bury opponents if you simply land on them or you can kick with another button press.


Upperdash Arm has super armor and deflects projectiles. Interception Arm turns it into a counter. Guardian Orbitars reflect and offer physical protection, Impact Orbitars are a simple attack, Amplifying Orbitars are weaker physically.


How to demonstrate vulnerability under Lightweight?


Shield Breaker's shield damage vs. normal hit. Dancing Blade options.


Eruption levels and self-damage.


Thunder/Elthunder/Arcthunder/Thoron variants. Nosferatu's health leech and power when hitting from front/back. Tome consumption in general?


Trick Shot control, Clay Shooting control. Wild Gunmen are random.


Copy powers?


Gordo Toss can go at three different angles.


Attacking out of Dimensional Cape or not?


Blaster's lack of hitstun vs. customs, which do have it. Reflector can both damage and reflect.


Reflector can both damage and reflect.


Flare Blitz self-damage vs. Dragon Rush, which doesn't have any.


Force Palm and Extremespeed ranges scale with aura.


Rollout does exactly nothing unless you charge it first.


Fully charged Water Shuriken acts differently from partial charges. Directional counterattacks after Substitute. Exploding Attack is not a counterattack.


Robo Beam charges over time and reflects off of surfaces. Arm Rotor is both an attack and a reflector, Backward Arm Rotor also flips opponents around. Robo Burner only charges when R.O.B. is on the ground.


Turnaround Falcon Punch.


Riding Lloid vs. not. Timber has 3 stages, all with different properties. Timber customs mess with all 3 too.


Pikmin variations for Pikmin Throw. Winged Pikmin with 0/1/2/3 Pikmin in tow, customs don't care. Does Pikmin Order still have super armor?


Self-healing when launching fully charged Sun Salutation, but not Enriched Sun Salutation. Self-healing with Deep Breathing, but not Explosive Breathing. How to demonstrate extra damage after Deep Breathing?


5 different Monado Arts, can manually cancel arts. Both customs mess with buff magnitude and duration, Decisive Monado Arts prevent manual cancelling. Back Slash Charge has super armor. Vision has normal and forward counterattack variants.


See Mario/Pit/Marth.


Bonus Fruit. Can aim Power Pellet. Pac-Jump usage limits. Can hit Fire Hydrant away.


Can pass Crash Bomber back and forth. Leaf Shield disables all actions except jump, grab, and releasing the shield.


idklol


idklol

To be clear, I like the idea. But it won't be simple just showing each move, a lot of them have intricacies and it seems pretty infeasible to squeeze each one into a single .gif.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I want it to be a casual list that can be viewed from the outside so people have an understanding on what the moves look like. I intend to keep it as simple as I can, while leaving links to NinjaLink's videos in case they want a greater understanding of the move. Some will probably be a little more complex than others, but I am going to try and avoid using multiple gifs for the same move as often as I can.

I find NinjaLink's videos to be a good viewing for anyone curious about customs, the problem is that his videos are pretty long for so many moves. So this is just meant to be a starting point.

 

[Lavani]

Why not just make gifs out of the Youtube videos?

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Why not just make gifs out of the Youtube videos?

Because he uses them so messily in an experimental fashion. That would make the gifs too inconsistent to look at and may cloud their effects.

If I could find someone to help me, I'd go for something more quick and to the point. Clarity is my goal.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I want it to be a casual list that can be viewed from the outside so people have an understanding on what the moves look like. I intend to keep it as simple as I can, while leaving links to NinjaLink's videos in case they want a greater understanding of the move. Some will probably be a little more complex than others, but I am going to try and avoid using multiple gifs for the same move as often as I can.

I find NinjaLink's videos to be a good viewing for anyone curious about customs, the problem is that his videos are pretty long for so many moves. So this is just meant to be a starting point.

Okay, that narrows it down a bit. So Mario's gifs would be something like this?

Fireball: Hit the opponent with it.
Fast Fireball: Hit the opponent with it, maybe two to demonstrate the speed.
Fire Orb: Hit the opponent with it at close range to show off the multihit.

Cape: Reflect a projectile, maybe Samus's Charge Shot.
Shocking Cape: Hit the opponent with it.
Gust Cape: Hit the opponent with the windbox.

Super Jump Punch: Hit the opponent with it.
Super Jump: Use at point blank to demonstrate lack of hitbox.
Explosive Punch: Hit the opponent with it.

F.L.U.D.D.: Full charge and release.
Scalding F.L.U.D.D.: Full charge and release.
High-Pressure F.L.U.D.D.: Full charge and release.

 

[Krazy4Krash]

Okay, that narrows it down a bit. So Mario's gifs would be something like this?

Fireball: Hit the opponent with it.
Fast Fireball: Hit the opponent with it, maybe two to demonstrate the speed.
Fire Orb: Hit the opponent with it at close range to show off the multihit.

Cape: Reflect a projectile, maybe Samus's Charge Shot.
Shocking Cape: Hit the opponent with it.
Gust Cape: Hit the opponent with the windbox.

Super Jump Punch: Hit the opponent with it.
Super Jump: Use at point blank to demonstrate lack of hitbox.
Explosive Punch: Hit the opponent with it.

F.L.U.D.D.: Full charge and release.
Scalding F.L.U.D.D.: Full charge and release.
High-Pressure F.L.U.D.D.: Full charge and release.

I want to do that, it sounds like fun. At first I was thinking this could be done in the training room where you test a custom set-up before saving it (against the Sandbag) for the cleanest possible look and the added feature of having the game show how much damage moves do as they connect. However, that would be sacrificing the ability to use reflecting/absorbing moves and special grabs, and also ruining the showcase of some moves such as FLUDD because of how much farther it flies compared to a regular character.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I want to do that, it sounds like fun. At first I was thinking this could be done in the training room where you test a custom set-up before saving it (against the Sandbag) for the cleanest possible look and the added feature of having the game show how much damage moves do as they connect. However, that would be sacrificing the ability to use reflecting/absorbing moves and special grabs, and also ruining the showcase of some moves such as FLUDD because of how much farther it flies compared to a regular character.

Do you have recording equipment? If so we can work together.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

If you're going to be recording them and making them into .gifs, I recommend doing it on the Omega Version of 75m, as the background is black. It'd make it easier to see exactly what's going on.

 

[GUIGUI]

Not only should it be sticky, but it might be a good idea to make it appears on the frontpage news.

Anyway, any recorded tournament who has applied this system yet?

 

[Krazy4Krash]

Do you have recording equipment? If so we can work together.

I have a capture card for my Wii U, both copies of Smash 4 and a complete save file on 3DS, so I can transfer sets of 2222 and 3333 for all characters. When I get back home to my Wii U soon I can begin recording some test footage of Mario as described prior.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I have a capture card for my Wii U, both copies of Smash 4 and a complete save file on 3DS, so I can transfer sets of 2222 and 3333 for all characters. When I get back home to my Wii U soon I can begin recording some test footage of Mario as described prior.

Oh thank goodness. Let's take this to PM so I can describe some extra details.

 

[Salad Bowl]

I agree with customs legal, but I also don't. They make characters better and add diversity, but it makes rosalina even better make her even more broken. Idk

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I agree with customs legal, but I also don't. They make characters better and add diversity, but it makes rosalina even better make her even more broken. Idk

But a lot of characters get options that are quite good at dealing with Luma, so it's arguable if Rosalina has a net gain or loss when you take the rest of the cast into account.

 

[Salad Bowl]

But a lot of characters get options that are quite good at dealing with Luma, so it's arguable if Rosalina has a net gain or loss when you take the rest of the cast into account.

That shooting star bit is just too much and also wii fit trainer gets a meta knight tornado that's better. Idk I feel that some characters customs are too the point where you have to ban them

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

That shooting star bit is just too much and also wii fit trainer gets a meta knight tornado that's better. Idk I feel that some characters customs are too the point where you have to ban them

The thing is we haven't really gotten them in action yet. We can't discern if they are a problem yet or not. From the general outset, they are not. Once we get actual results we can see for sure.

 

[Overswarm]

We did this at a tournament yesterday. We had three 3DSes with custom moves unlocked and only use mine because we didn't NEED to use the others. It was stupid easy. Props to Annet Aurora for uploading them! Took a bit under 10 minutes per Wii U.

We had a grand total of one match where a player needed customs that weren't on the Wii U and it was solely because he wanted to test out a unique lucario setup.

**** works.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

We did this at a tournament yesterday. We had three 3DSes with custom moves unlocked and only use mine because we didn't NEED to use the others. It was stupid easy. Props to Annet Aurora for uploading them! Took a bit under 10 minutes per Wii U.

We had a grand total of one match where a player needed customs that weren't on the Wii U and it was solely because he wanted to test out a unique lucario setup.

**** works.

How many set ups were there?

 

[Overswarm]

7 or 8 I think

50 man tournament

Now none of those 7 need to be touched again, so we could double it and it'd still be easy.

We could have gotten all the setups loaded and underway in about 20 minutes if we had used all the 3DSes and been ready before registration was over, but we were lackadaisical

 

[Thinkaman]

That shooting star bit is just too much and also wii fit trainer gets a meta knight tornado that's better. Idk I feel that some characters customs are too the point where you have to ban them

I had the same initial impressions as you, but have good news. With experience, Shooting Star Bit (while still a good move) isn't as overwhelming as it first seems.

It locks Luma in place, which means Rosalina's options are momentarily limited--this is especially true if she uses it in the air. This also means it is more vulnerable to reflection--unlike most projectiles, a reflected star bit will ALWAYS hit Luma. And of course, Rosalina can't use it while Luma is dead or in certain separated situations.

I honestly do believe that Rosalina is one of the most hurt characters by customs. She gets better against Diddy, and maybe Sheik/ZSS/Jigglypuff, but that's about it. All these overlooked characters she sort of dominated before suddenly get anti-Luma tools.


As for WFT's Hula Hoops of Doom, it's nowhere near as good as Brawl MK nado. Brawl MK nado was absurd because of how safe it was--you could almost just do it whenever, with zero risk or repercussions. Jumbo Hoops, on the other hand, has massive endling lag. What's more, it can be interrupted OoS in many cases, and is still vulnerable to projectiles--neither of which was remotely true for nado.

It's a great move, but has to be used carefully once the opponent understands it. WFT is still probably one of the weaker characters in the game even with it.

 

[Salad Bowl]

I think it's good because characters like kirby improve.

 

[Overswarm]

I think it's good because it puts every character at their full potential.

Possibility 1 - Every character's best moves are 1111.

If this is the case, custom moves being legal does nothing as no one would use them and, if they did, it'd make them worse.

Possibility 2 - Not every character's best moves are 1111.

If this is the case, custom moves being legal creates a more level playing field in which every character's full potential is realized; those who have their best moves as 1111 aren't given an unfair advantage.

 

[GUIGUI]

I agree with customs legal, but I also don't. They make characters better and add diversity, but it makes rosalina even better make her even more broken. Idk

i thought "Rosalina being Broken" was already old news. Isn't it Diddy who is broken, now?

 

[GUIGUI]

7 or 8 I think

50 man tournament

Now none of those 7 need to be touched again, so we could double it and it'd still be easy.

We could have gotten all the setups loaded and underway in about 20 minutes if we had used all the 3DSes and been ready before registration was over, but we were lackadaisical

Was it recorded?

A small problem I am seeing, here is that there isn't really any feedback going on, currently. This might make the Christmas release of v1 a bit too underdeveloped.