Official Standard Custom Moveset Project Initial Release

[Protom]

Sad that twisting fox didn't make the cut, but I think that most if these are really good selections. Great job

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Sad that twisting fox didn't make the cut, but I think that most if these are really good selections. Great job

Fox's last build is a power build that includes Twisting Fox (Charge Blaster/Wolf Flash/Twisting Fox/default Reflector). I think for the crowd that prefers Twisting Fox (probably a minority), this will be the most popular set, but that's just my intuition speaking.

 

[Locke 06]

??? I don't know anyone who actually uses Ice Slasher. Pretty much everyone on the board agrees that it's garbage. I think there's something wrong there.

I'll have to ask everyone, either way 1311 is the only set that's a must.

That one person would be me. XD I've started to play around with it and it has some merits, especially as more people learn the matchup. It patches one of the big holes in his defensive game that has become apparent to me recently. We can talk more about it later on the Mega Man boards/through PM/I might make an ice man thread to advocate its usefulness. Could be due to my play style, but I've started to really enjoy it. (Also, I think Skull Barrier might end up being an underrated reflector... needs more testing)

Edit: I'm surprised you took my vote into consideration as --- is right... just about everyone has written off that Ice Slasher. Big props to you, AA, this project was big and having results this quickly is really great. You live up to your name.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Side3 Pikachu is hella obvious. Side1 is completely obsoleted by it lol

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

That one person would be me. XD I've started to play around with it and it has some merits, especially as more people learn the matchup. It patches one of the big holes in his defensive game that has become apparent to me recently. We can talk more about it later on the Mega Man boards/through PM/I might make an ice man thread to advocate its usefulness. Could be due to my play style, but I've started to really enjoy it. (Also, I think Skull Barrier might end up being an underrated reflector... needs more testing)

Edit: I'm surprised you took my vote into consideration as --- is right... just about everyone has written off that Ice Slasher. Big props to you, AA, this project was big and having results this quickly is really great. You live up to your name.

I'd love to see a thread about Ice Slasher. I've heard nothing but bad things about it, so it'd be interesting to get a different opinion.

 

[RESET Vao]

Thanks for the reply, Ampharos. I can see that being a possibility. I'll try to be that guy for my scene and I'll feedback how the custom moves play out.

 

[Luco]

I think this topic should be stickied ASAP by the way, wayyyyy too important for people to have to go looking for it.

Good job AA, you've done most of the work and you certainly deserve the most thanks; taking the initiative for this would've been really hard and it shows just how much you care about this community for you to embark on such a massive project that has implications for tournaments worldwide and far into the future. Literally, I have no idea where we'd be without your (and @ Thinkaman 's, and plenty of other people behind the scenes who i'm sure have done a massive load of work) help... so thanks again!

 

[Venks]

I just wanted to say @ Amazing Ampharos that you are truly amazing for all the work you've put into this. I personally will be unlocking every custom move on my 3DS so I can provide all of these sets for stations at my local tournaments.

Really glad to see so much effort put into making customs legal. This game has so much more going for it because custom moves and I don't want to see them fall to the side without giving them a real try.

 

[Protom]

Fox's last build is a power build that includes Twisting Fox (Charge Blaster/Wolf Flash/Twisting Fox/default Reflector). I think for the crowd that prefers Twisting Fox (probably a minority), this will be the most popular set, but that's just my intuition speaking.

Oh wow how did I miss that? That's great! (Though if I. Went to a tournament I'd still go with my own 1331)

 

[Yikarur]

Yosh needs a 2XXX critical set because lick is his very best custom moves.
I made mistake in the custom thread for Yoshi. I was suggesting lick but was posting the wrong number because I thought lick is his third special.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

I think this topic should be stickied ASAP by the way, wayyyyy too important for people to have to go looking for it.

Good job AA, you've done most of the work and you certainly deserve the most thanks; taking the initiative for this would've been really hard and it shows just how much you care about this community for you to embark on such a massive project that has implications for tournaments worldwide and far into the future. Literally, I have no idea where we'd be without your (and @ Thinkaman 's, and plenty of other people behind the scenes who i'm sure have done a massive load of work) help... so thanks again!

I agree, with all the support this project has gained, it should be stickied, so that people don't have to go digging for it as we wait for results.

Speaking of results, what are we waiting for to be exact?

 

[Foozal]

i say for this to work, someone would have to be comfortable with basically transfering their entire 3DS data with just Smash on it.

Then users just create a back up of their current SD card, load up the smash one (or perhaps just save it onto another SD card for permanent use) and then transfer to that WiiU. You can easily just switch back SD cards afterwards

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Yosh needs a 2XXX critical set because lick is his very best custom moves.
I made mistake in the custom thread for Yoshi. I was suggesting lick but was posting the wrong number because I thought lick is his third special.

Well, Lick is not supported by many Yoshis, but it definitely has its fans and offers a lot to the character. As a less mainstream but definitely valid train of thought, it has two entries in the supplemental sets in 2311 and 2312 which in terms of usability only means you scroll down to sets 4 and 5 to pick it.

You are not the only person to mix up numbers/names in this; it was generally obvious what people meant except with the Kirbys and Hammer Flip vs Hammer Bash.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

I'm going to say this since I noticed there wasn't any central discussion for it on the Falco board (par for the course, unfortunately.)

Falco's neutral 2 (Explosive Blaster) is the only neutral custom that should be considered besides default. I found it to be effective in stuffing horizontal recoveries and it's difficult for characters to maneuver past it, especially if they already used their second jump. I appreciate it for that alone, though I think neutral 1 is still the better overall choice. His neutral 3 (Burst Blaster) is bootycheeks bad, and worse than Fox's default blaster so I see no utility to it.

Falco's side specials, from what I've used of them, are also complete doo-doo and shouldn't be used. From what I've noticed, side 2 (Falco Phase) has no hitbox and carries a lot of endlag and side 3 (Falco Charge) barely covers any distance, and side B's utility is for recovery and spiking. Considering how both custom side specials interfere with this, I'd say it's best to stick with the default.

Falco's up specials are alright in my opinion. Up 2 (Fast Fire Bird) is fast and people won't see it coming the first time around. I could even see it being used in Falco's ground game, though I hadn't tried it. Up 3 (Distant Fire Bird) has good recovery application, and though it take longer to charge Falco can use it from farther away; it can probably lead to the opponent setting up for an edge guard, so usage must be smart. Also, something to note about Up 3 is that when you hit an opponent with the initial charge, it deals 8% base damage and it's unsafe, but hit with the "Falco on fire" part of the move and you get multiple hits that deal 2% each.

His down specials have pros and cons but with slightly different utilities I can see the cons being mitigated. Down 2 (Accele-Reflector) is fast, reflects fast, but only does so for half the animation. I can see this being useful for projectile heavy characters like Duck Hunt, Mega Man, Villager or characters like Mario, Pac-Man, and Samus to make them consider their options more. I like it, but I need more human experience with it. As well, down 3 (Reflector Void) nullifies projectiles entirely, but it also has increased knockback on the reflector itself. It's capable of sending opponents to the top blast zone in mid-100 percents when you guys are in the air, so it gives Falco another way to KO. Both are pretty viable options in my opinion and deserve some time in the lab and in tourneys.

I personally run 2133 and 1122 with Falco, but I don't have much human experience so I can't say for sure how effective they are. I'll play around with the sets you provided though, since variety is good. Hope you don't mind my thoughts here, since I figure it couldn't hurt to get feedback from a Falco main.

EDIT: I need to remember where I can and can't swear. >>;;;

 

[Raijinken]

Well, I just spent the last few hours setting up and transferring all of this (would have been quicker had I not been watching pro Dota at the same time, but it is what it is). I'll see how it goes. Looking forward to the possibilities.

Also, I'll be keeping an eye on this periodically, but are you going to be updating the OP when changes are made, and, ideally, color-coding the changed ones for easy swapping?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Good ****, AA. Thank you for all of your hard work!

Shout-outs to the D3 boards for making your life easier during this endeavor.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Well, I just spent the last few hours setting up and transferring all of this (would have been quicker had I not been watching pro Dota at the same time, but it is what it is). I'll see how it goes. Looking forward to the possibilities.

Also, I'll be keeping an eye on this periodically, but are you going to be updating the OP when changes are made, and, ideally, color-coding the changed ones for easy swapping?

I'm going to make an explicit changelist for the Christmas update and any future ones to make swapping as easy as possible.

 

[Flayl]

Great work so far, hope this becomes a standard!

You might want to edit the volume of the video though, it's so loud the audio is clipping (quality is being lost). If you no longer have the original recording then it's fine

 

[Shog]

I will bump this a bit because this is important and will make the game more interesting at the end of the day.

Also, about Charizard's moveset, a Fire Fang variant should be added for a Charizard Fire Fang fan. Not sure who that was though. Hopefully the Fire Fang Charizard's find this thread and reply

 

[Ryu_Ken]

This seems pretty legit. Idk yet whether all the Links satisfied with this, but I'm sure they will be.

 

[TheASDF]

@ Shog Slot 6 is a Fire Fang one.

I'm kinda surprised to see only one slot with Duck Hunt's default up-B. Sure, it's slow and leaves Duck Hunt vulnerable, but up-B 3 is fairly predictable and has no horizontal movement. At least the default leaves some wiggle room to move around.

 

[WritersBlah]

Amazing Ampharos, I cannot thank you enough for this movement. This, more than perhaps anything else done so far, is the most important thing the community has done for this game. This is going to revolutionize the way tournaments for Smash 4 are run for as long as this game has a competitive scene, I just know it. Is there any way we can get this thread on the front page so it reaches out to as many people as possible?

 

[MegaMissingno]

Just a note for Puff, neutral 2 (Relentless Rollout) is actually less terrible than the default Rollout since it's not punishable on hit, let alone fatal offstage. Still an awful move either way, but ought to be in at least one of those sets. At least you can try to recover with it if you're out of jumps.

 

[Neerb]

A suggestion from someone who is mediocre but likes to learn: instead of just Supplemental and Critical, could the list on the op perhaps have a higher category called "Preferred" or something similar to contain any sets that are not just "critical" for variety/preference, but actually better/more popular than 1111? Obviously much of the appeal of customs comes from personal preference, but as long as we're devoting a thread to community preferences, we might as well be able to tell at a glance whether a "critical" set is actually worth using to someone new to a character. We'd still only have 6 sets per character, but simply categorize them in more detail.

You could even color code them, like Green for "preferred over defult," Yellow for "alternative to default," and Red for "common supplements."

On a separate note, now that this project has tangible results and is really gaining interest, everyone needs to take advantage and get more discussion rolling on their respective boards so the Christmas or Spring Update is more accurate and complete. Really, thing I find most impressive so far is that Ampharos actually had to make up a bunch of these sets himself.

And on yet another unrelated note, this thread should get stickied already.

 

[Xerox the beautiful]

No 1311 for Robin that's somewhat disappointing but I guess that's why I have a fully unlocked 3ds. Actually now that I think about it the entire selection of Robin sets makes no sense to me. Why is fire wall not on any critical sets despite it being last time I checked generally considered to be Robin's best custom? Why is default thunder not on any of them?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wow my Pac set actually made it. O.O

 

[ParanoidDrone]

No 1311 for Robin that's somewhat disappointing but I guess that's why I have a fully unlocked 3ds. Actually now that I think about it the entire selection of Robin sets makes no sense to me. Why is fire wall not on any critical sets despite it being last time I checked generally considered to be Robin's best custom? Why is default thunder not on any of them?

2311 and 3311 are both under supplemental sets, I don't see what difference it makes if they're listed as critical instead. And Thunder is a meh middle ground between Thunder+ (Thoron+ kills stupidly early) and Speed Thunder (better against fast rushdown types that won't let you charge Thoron+), it offers no real advantages over either.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

For the sake of future revisions, I got some chums on reddit to help us out with setting up a large scale thread for the project.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2okwy5/smashboards_custom_moves_project_individual/

And upvote certainly would help it from falling apart.

 

[Xerox the beautiful]

2311 and 3311 are both under supplemental sets, I don't see what difference it makes if they're listed as critical instead. And Thunder is a meh middle ground between Thunder+ (Thoron+ kills stupidly early) and Speed Thunder (better against fast rushdown types that won't let you charge Thoron+), it offers no real advantages over either.

I find default thunder to not be so much of a meh middle ground as the variant with the fewest weaknesses I'd personally take sets with default thunder and fire wall over ones with goetia any day. Still as I said I have a fully unlocked 3ds so it doesn't really matter to me I was just expressing my confusion at the choices.

 

[Davis-Lightheart]

Hey, AA. Why does the Mii Gunner have 3113Wide as a critical and supplemental set?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Hey, AA. Why does the Mii Gunner have 3113Wide as a critical and supplemental set?

That's not a bad question; I must have made a mistake somewhere, and I'm not quite sure where.

 

[Sandwiches]

Question: Why can't someone just backup their Smash Bros data from their Wii U and import it to tournament consoles? Then players can just make their own customs at the start of the match if one isn't already set up (would only take a few seconds).

 

[Thinkaman]

Question: Why can't someone just backup their Smash Bros data from their Wii U and import it to tournament consoles? Then players can just make their own customs at the start of the match if one isn't already set up (would only take a few seconds).

Sadly, no. The backup file, and actually the entire file system of the USB volume, is configured exclusively to the original console.

 

[Sandwiches]

Sadly, no. The backup file, and actually the entire file system of the USB volume, is configured exclusively to the original console.

Oh... so if my console dies, that's it? Everything goes with it, even if I have a backup?

What is the advantage of this exactly?

 

[Thinkaman]

Oh... so if my console dies, that's it? Everything goes with it, even if I have a backup?

Yup!

What is the advantage of this exactly?

This is a fantastic question.

 

[ChemicalExperiment]

Yup!



This is a fantastic question.

Does is help with piracy?

 

[Thinkaman]

Does is help with piracy?

Dubiously. There's no doubt this is the logic.

It would be way easier, less complicated, and cheaper to not make all USB volumes a console-locked proprietary format.

 

[Swordplay]

Defiantly a couple variants on character I see missing that didn't make the cut. And I don't have a 3ds :/

But I can make it on the wii u right? I don't see why 3ds is mandatory. I didn't get one cause m not big into hand held games and wasn't buying a 3ds just for smash when it was coming to wii u a month later

But I don't mind talking to a to as long as to can accommodate the variants with notification this shouldn't be an issue. It only becomes an issue if to can't accomodate

In characters I wish More shadow blade builds for megaman and ripping boomerang to shocking spin attack has been a fun combo I've been diggin! I'll be using standards for my other Alts like samus. I think you nailed most of these I think a lot of these will change in 2 months. There is no meta for it now. And because of no meta I think there will be more than the 1 %.

I estimate more like 3% - 5% lots of people gonna be practicing interesting things and off brands when there is no YouTube meta for the masses to copy and past builds after watching pros okay customs

It will get to 1 percent eventually. Prop ably not for about 2 to 3 months while everyone is unlocking and testing. It's to fluid

Obviously once 2222 and 3333 are gone the minority will get even smaller. How long for this though?

 

[Sandwiches]

But I can make it on the wii u right? I don't see why 3ds is mandatory. I didn't get one cause m not big into hand held games and wasn't buying a 3ds just for smash when it was coming to wii u a month later

Because it's not feasible for every Wii U to have every custom move unlocked to accommodate any given player. For whatever reason, Sakurai made this difficult. However, if you have a 3DS, you can import a character you want with special moves not unlocked on the Wii U (however you can't edit the character).

What OP is trying to accomplish is having one 3DS/WiiU with all custom moves unlocked, then use that 3DS to create the most commonly used presets in order to cut down on every player having to import these commonly used presets at every Wii U at every event.

 

[Boy Jordan]

I love everything about this except for "critical" versus "supplemental" classifications. Looking at Olimar's movesets and some others, what you have listed as critical doesn't really seem accurate. (Olimar's combination of hardy pikmin + sticky/quick pikmin seems like a normal thing going on, yet it's not listed at all?) That only leaves me to consider that most rulings from each board really won't reflect the standard sets that people actually use. But that gets to another point...there really is no standard set, cause customs get swapped out left and right based on the matchup, and that's character specific (50+ opponents to counter).

Amazing work. Keep at it.